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	<title>Comments on: General Motors Death Watch 80: No OCD = RIP</title>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-188</guid>
		<description>To clarify my earlier posting about the first hand experiences that I had with my Civic, Cabrio, and Legacy:  Honda, Volkswagen, and Subaru had a shot at convincing me to become a loyal customer, and each of them failed of their own accord in their own unique way.  I won&#039;t repeatedly buy a product based on other people&#039;s experiences, I buy repeatedly based on my own experiences.  I&#039;m glad that other people are enjoying their Hondas, Volkswagens, and Subarus but I, unfortunately, did not over the long haul.  I wish that I had because the selection out there is so mind numbing it would have been nice to narrow the field.  Good day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->To clarify my earlier posting about the first hand experiences that I had with my Civic, Cabrio, and Legacy:  Honda, Volkswagen, and Subaru had a shot at convincing me to become a loyal customer, and each of them failed of their own accord in their own unique way.  I won&#8217;t repeatedly buy a product based on other people&#8217;s experiences, I buy repeatedly based on my own experiences.  I&#8217;m glad that other people are enjoying their Hondas, Volkswagens, and Subarus but I, unfortunately, did not over the long haul.  I wish that I had because the selection out there is so mind numbing it would have been nice to narrow the field.  Good day.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: camp6ell</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>camp6ell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 19:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-156</guid>
		<description>oooh, the white collar gm workers have been waiting for the day they&#039;d be allowed to comment on the death watch, haven&#039;t they!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->oooh, the white collar gm workers have been waiting for the day they&#8217;d be allowed to comment on the death watch, haven&#8217;t they!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: skierpage</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-131</link>
		<dc:creator>skierpage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 05:58:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-131</guid>
		<description>Robert,
&quot;remainign&quot; typo.
(Latest Firefox browser beta has spellcheck in text fields, download it today.)

Glad to see TTAC set up comments!  And followup comment notification!

You should have used Roman numerals for the death watch.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Robert,<br />
&#8220;remainign&#8221; typo.<br />
(Latest Firefox browser beta has spellcheck in text fields, download it today.)</p>
<p>Glad to see TTAC set up comments!  And followup comment notification!</p>
<p>You should have used Roman numerals for the death watch.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: stormj</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-124</link>
		<dc:creator>stormj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 01:56:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-124</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s way too facile to just blame this on the UAW, in any significant way.  I&#039;m not sure I&#039;d feel better about driving a car put together by Wal-Mart style wage slaves either.

The old saying you get what you pay for is true with workers too.  It&#039;s not so much the UAW as it is the fact that in other countries, the employers don&#039;t have to deal with all the same overhead.

Blame the UAW for its &quot;legacy costs,&quot; but it&#039;s not those folks that are deciding that there&#039;s some reason why we need to have Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Hummer and Saturn, why I feel like I&#039;m inside a huge kids toy when I look at the instrument panel of a GM, and so forth.

As for the poster above citing his problems with Hondas and Subarus, I can only say the plural of anecdote is not evidence.  On the whole, people are stupid, I guess, but not that stupid.  

Oh, and just a thought.  Wanna sell more cars? Convert every dealer to a fixed-price Saturn-like deal, get rid of the asshole in finance, and make buying a car feel something less like a body cavity search in a Somalian prison.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->It&#8217;s way too facile to just blame this on the UAW, in any significant way.  I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;d feel better about driving a car put together by Wal-Mart style wage slaves either.</p>
<p>The old saying you get what you pay for is true with workers too.  It&#8217;s not so much the UAW as it is the fact that in other countries, the employers don&#8217;t have to deal with all the same overhead.</p>
<p>Blame the UAW for its &#8220;legacy costs,&#8221; but it&#8217;s not those folks that are deciding that there&#8217;s some reason why we need to have Buick, Pontiac, GMC, Hummer and Saturn, why I feel like I&#8217;m inside a huge kids toy when I look at the instrument panel of a GM, and so forth.</p>
<p>As for the poster above citing his problems with Hondas and Subarus, I can only say the plural of anecdote is not evidence.  On the whole, people are stupid, I guess, but not that stupid.  </p>
<p>Oh, and just a thought.  Wanna sell more cars? Convert every dealer to a fixed-price Saturn-like deal, get rid of the asshole in finance, and make buying a car feel something less like a body cavity search in a Somalian prison.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jun 2006 11:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-107</guid>
		<description>GM is going down for the count.  Just what is the deal with these so called new and improved and still butt-ugly SUV&#039;s with piss poor gas mileage?  Oooo!---12 percent better mileage--and that&#039;s only if you drive like a Grandma at 5 mph below the speed limit and keep that baby at 55 mph on the interstate.  Well, that certainly is GM&#039;s speed, ain&#039;t it? 

GM has got to go.  It is far too slow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->GM is going down for the count.  Just what is the deal with these so called new and improved and still butt-ugly SUV&#8217;s with piss poor gas mileage?  Oooo!&#8212;12 percent better mileage&#8211;and that&#8217;s only if you drive like a Grandma at 5 mph below the speed limit and keep that baby at 55 mph on the interstate.  Well, that certainly is GM&#8217;s speed, ain&#8217;t it? </p>
<p>GM has got to go.  It is far too slow.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-45</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 15:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-45</guid>
		<description>I will be visiting the Studebaker Museum in South Bend Indiana this Sunday to view some interesting vintage Studebakers and Packards.  My grandfather used to work for Packard, and I&#039;ve frequently heard how amazing they were in their day.  This visit will be a good reminder to me that companies DO go under no mater how we feel about them emotionally or rationalize their products or position in the market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I will be visiting the Studebaker Museum in South Bend Indiana this Sunday to view some interesting vintage Studebakers and Packards.  My grandfather used to work for Packard, and I&#8217;ve frequently heard how amazing they were in their day.  This visit will be a good reminder to me that companies DO go under no mater how we feel about them emotionally or rationalize their products or position in the market.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Farago</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Farago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-42</guid>
		<description>I wonder what episode I&#039;d be on if I&#039;d started back in the 70&#039;s...

If GM pulls out of this death spiral, I will eat my cybernetic hat.  Better still, I will post a long and detailed editorial about how I was wrong and apologize for unfairly demeaning the company and its leaders.  

Meanwhile, if you can think of a way that GM can become profitable-- for that is the key to dodging the bankruptcy bullet-- with their current and future union obligations, management structure, product development process and dealer network, feel free to share with the group.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I wonder what episode I&#8217;d be on if I&#8217;d started back in the 70&#8217;s&#8230;</p>
<p>If GM pulls out of this death spiral, I will eat my cybernetic hat.  Better still, I will post a long and detailed editorial about how I was wrong and apologize for unfairly demeaning the company and its leaders.  </p>
<p>Meanwhile, if you can think of a way that GM can become profitable&#8211; for that is the key to dodging the bankruptcy bullet&#8211; with their current and future union obligations, management structure, product development process and dealer network, feel free to share with the group.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: randois</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>randois</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 04:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-36</guid>
		<description>Ok ...

You are up to #&quot;80&quot; Death Watch for GM.

So,when do you admit you were wrong?
Or, for that matter,when do you proclaim you were right?

At first,one could say you had some compelling arguments for the impending demise of GM.

But, after a year of your &quot;prescient&quot; comments ...the last I looked they are in business and selling cars.

By the way ...have you sold anything lately?  Have you made a payroll lately?  Have you had to deal with a union and legacy costs, lately?

So, is there a point, a date, at which you will acknowledge that you were wrong and Rick Wagoner and his exec team were right?

What is your benchmark?

Just curious.  You seem so righteous in your indicnation at GM ...but, c&#039;mon ...you&#039;re up to 80 articles on the death and demise of GM ...

Don&#039;t you think you&#039;re stretching your &quot;cred,&quot; here?

From my POV, they have made some strategic mistakes, no doubt ...but, out of business?

As of June, &#039;06 not the case.

JUst curious ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ok &#8230;</p>
<p>You are up to #&#8221;80&#8243; Death Watch for GM.</p>
<p>So,when do you admit you were wrong?<br />
Or, for that matter,when do you proclaim you were right?</p>
<p>At first,one could say you had some compelling arguments for the impending demise of GM.</p>
<p>But, after a year of your &#8220;prescient&#8221; comments &#8230;the last I looked they are in business and selling cars.</p>
<p>By the way &#8230;have you sold anything lately?  Have you made a payroll lately?  Have you had to deal with a union and legacy costs, lately?</p>
<p>So, is there a point, a date, at which you will acknowledge that you were wrong and Rick Wagoner and his exec team were right?</p>
<p>What is your benchmark?</p>
<p>Just curious.  You seem so righteous in your indicnation at GM &#8230;but, c&#8217;mon &#8230;you&#8217;re up to 80 articles on the death and demise of GM &#8230;</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t you think you&#8217;re stretching your &#8220;cred,&#8221; here?</p>
<p>From my POV, they have made some strategic mistakes, no doubt &#8230;but, out of business?</p>
<p>As of June, &#8216;06 not the case.</p>
<p>JUst curious &#8230;.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/general-motors-death-watch-80-no-ocd-rip/comment-page-1/#comment-15</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=1576#comment-15</guid>
		<description>Comments: In Robert Farago&#039;s &quot;General Motors Death Watch 80&quot; I read the following: A commentator on Autoblog named D described the problem: &quot;I can throw a dart at a board covered in every new car offered by Honda, Mazda, Subaru, Toyota and I would be happy with whatever I get. Do the same with Ford and GM and the odds are I will be disappointed with some fleet car piece of junk.&quot;

A former engineer for over 12 years at one of the &quot;big 3&quot; there was a time that I believed this kind of statement, but no more.  Why?  Because I purchased, drove, lovingly maintained, and lived with products from Subaru, Volkswagen, and Honda after departing the automotive business in 1995.  I can honestly say that my experience with those products is absolutely no better than my experience with so called American made products.

My Subaru Legacy begged for repairs and maintanence of all sorts about every three months just like my piece-of-crap 70s Pontiac.  My Volkswagen Cabrio left me stranded, never started or ran properly and every Volkswagen dealer chirped that they couldn&#039;t find anything wrong with it just like my piece-of-crap 70s Plymouth.  My Honda Civic, well, let&#039;s just say that I spent more money on repairs and maintanence than I spent on the purchase of the car brand new, and I finally sold it with only 50K on the odometer.  Never again!  Add in the fact that all three of these vehicles rusted, rattled, banged, vibrated, creaked, moaned, groaned, and failed in all kinds of tedious ways, I can say, yes, the American companies put out crap but the Japanese and Germans do too!??

I now have a Ford Focus ZX5 and a Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible and saved myself  money with their low purchase prices!  I&#039;m pretty pleased with these two vehicles so far and enjoy the reactions of the devoted Toyota, Honda and Volkswagen owners who get inside and give them compliments.  Why?  Because when I get inside of their Passats, Foresters, CRVs, and RAV4s I notice all of the rattling, banging, creaking, rough shifting, flashing idiot lights, and all of the other BS that is blamed on American brands but is kept hushed about Japanese and German brands.  The one good thing about Japanese and German autos is that the American public will practically give away their first born child to purchase them as used cars.  As I sold each one of those &quot;prized&quot; vehicles I had to chuckle inside and wonder why so much fuss.  I was happy to unload them!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Comments: In Robert Farago&#8217;s &#8220;General Motors Death Watch 80&#8243; I read the following: A commentator on Autoblog named D described the problem: &#8220;I can throw a dart at a board covered in every new car offered by Honda, Mazda, Subaru, Toyota and I would be happy with whatever I get. Do the same with Ford and GM and the odds are I will be disappointed with some fleet car piece of junk.&#8221;</p>
<p>A former engineer for over 12 years at one of the &#8220;big 3&#8243; there was a time that I believed this kind of statement, but no more.  Why?  Because I purchased, drove, lovingly maintained, and lived with products from Subaru, Volkswagen, and Honda after departing the automotive business in 1995.  I can honestly say that my experience with those products is absolutely no better than my experience with so called American made products.</p>
<p>My Subaru Legacy begged for repairs and maintanence of all sorts about every three months just like my piece-of-crap 70s Pontiac.  My Volkswagen Cabrio left me stranded, never started or ran properly and every Volkswagen dealer chirped that they couldn&#8217;t find anything wrong with it just like my piece-of-crap 70s Plymouth.  My Honda Civic, well, let&#8217;s just say that I spent more money on repairs and maintanence than I spent on the purchase of the car brand new, and I finally sold it with only 50K on the odometer.  Never again!  Add in the fact that all three of these vehicles rusted, rattled, banged, vibrated, creaked, moaned, groaned, and failed in all kinds of tedious ways, I can say, yes, the American companies put out crap but the Japanese and Germans do too!??</p>
<p>I now have a Ford Focus ZX5 and a Chrysler PT Cruiser Convertible and saved myself  money with their low purchase prices!  I&#8217;m pretty pleased with these two vehicles so far and enjoy the reactions of the devoted Toyota, Honda and Volkswagen owners who get inside and give them compliments.  Why?  Because when I get inside of their Passats, Foresters, CRVs, and RAV4s I notice all of the rattling, banging, creaking, rough shifting, flashing idiot lights, and all of the other BS that is blamed on American brands but is kept hushed about Japanese and German brands.  The one good thing about Japanese and German autos is that the American public will practically give away their first born child to purchase them as used cars.  As I sold each one of those &#8220;prized&#8221; vehicles I had to chuckle inside and wonder why so much fuss.  I was happy to unload them!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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