WOW a whole 33 years old?! Seriously?! As in, three three??? OMG. You must still be in diapers. 33 is just getting started, so try to get some perspective.

The Saturn Aura should be reason enough to only focus on Chevy and Cadillac. It is essentially the same car as the new Malibu without the advertising budget. GM made a great car that nobody knows about because GM can’t afford to maintain eight brands. EIGHT BRANDS!

Imagine how great (and how quickly) GM could make the new Chevys if they did not have the distractions of fighting to support the other brands.

All I know is that I see plenty of post-1976 Caprices still on the road (and not show queens, either), along with plenty of 1979-1985 Buick Rivieras. Mustang GTs are pretty tough, too.

As for the others, reliability isn’t a criteria of the Motor Trend awards, and it really can’t be, as cars must be new that year to be eligible. They don’t have a track record.

All of the cars I mentioned were pretty popular in the day, and still have a following.

Contrast this with the Renault Alliance, which was popular at first (second best-selling small car in 1983), but soon fell from grace, and has been basically forgotten outside of websites like this.

Your idea of reliable is far from mine.

“Taurus” may be the longest-lived nameplate that is available today, but the two longest-lived nameplates of all time among regular American passenger cars are still the Oldsmobile Ninety-Eight and Chrysler New Yorker, both of which were first used prior to World War II and were phased out in the early 1990s.

Runfromcheney: I do get your point though about how some COTYs became nothing more than damp squibs. The 1989 Ford Thunderbird, the Chrysler Cirrus and 300 come to mind.

Can’t agree with that assessment. The 1989 Thunderbird was a very nice car (built like a tank) with styling that has held up very well. The main problem was that the market for large coupes dried up in the 1990s, as potential buyers switched to SUVs.

The Chrysler 300 was also a good car with handsome styling, good room and a respectable level of performance for the price. Quality was also much improved over the original LH cars.

The Cirrus was a nice car when it debuted, with handsome, distinctive styling, decent handling and a roomy, comfortable interior. Unfortunately, Chrysler didn’t take the Toyota approach and fix the problems while emphasizing the good parts – which can be laid squarely at the feet of Daimler.

Landcrusher,

I can’t agree that the 1977 Chevrolet Caprice, 1979 Buick Riviera S, 1987 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe, 1989 Thunderbird SC and 1994 Mustang are losers.

The 1977 Chevrolet Caprice was a huge sales success and the public loved it (and still does – people still seek out those big rear-wheel-drive GM cars from the late 1970s and early 1980s). They are tough, comfortable, reliable cars, and when equipped with the F41 suspension package, suprisingly good handlers.

The Buick Riviera S was a brave attempt at maintaining performance while improving gas mileage over a V-8 via turbocharging. It laid the groundwork for the revered Buick Grand Nationals of the 1980s. While the public didn’t exactly cotton to the idea of a turbocharged Riviera, the V-8 Rivieras were solid, comfortable, reliable and extremely popular with the public.

The two Thunderbirds attempted to do the same thing as the Buick Riviera, with more emphasis on handling and the “aero” style. The 1989 models, in particular, where quite stylish and built like tanks.

The 1994 Mustang was a very good attempt at keeping the Fox platform alive while improving interior comfort and performance. The car’s popularity then and now shows that it hit its target (which wasn’t BMW 3-Series or Honda Prelude drivers).

Who the hell writes this GM shit?
We salute you, GM spinmeisters.
You are true masters of bullshittery.

Anyway, I’m so glad you guys put up a picture of my mistress on your website. Gee, I hope that my wife (Angelina Jolie) doesn’t read this comment!

This was the car that made me question the COTY award to begin with. They used to put a sticker on the cars that was HUGE. Every car was a rolling billboard for MT COTY until the owner removed the thing. Two years later, when the last Alliance was officially retired to the junk yard after only 24,000 miles I started to question the whole COTY thing.

Okay, that’s hyperbole, but it really was a pile of junk.

1983 AMC / Renault Alliance-COTY
1980 Chevrolet Citation-COTY
1977 Chevrolet Caprice-COTY
1988 Pontiac Grand Prix(WTF?1?)-COTY
1981 Chrysler K Cars, Dodge Aries / Plymouth Reliant-COTY
1976 Chrysler, Dodge Aspen / Plymouth Volare-COTY
1974 Ford Mustang II-COTY

HOW? WHY?

If you are going to claim I couldn’t be more wrong, you will need to bring a stronger rebuttal.

I offer the following evidence in my favor:

2002 Ford Thunderbird
2000 Lincoln LS
1997 Chevrolet Malibu
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1994 Ford Mustang
1993 Ford Probe GT
1992 Cadillac Seville Touring Sedan
1991 Chevrolet Caprice Classic LTZ
1990 Lincoln Town Car
1989 Ford Thunderbird SC
1988 Pontiac Grand Prix
1987 Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe
1983 AMC / Renault Alliance
1981 Chrysler K Cars, Dodge Aries / Plymouth Reliant
1980 Chevrolet Citation
1979 Buick Riviera S
1978 Chrysler, Dodge Omni / Plymouth Horizon
1977 Chevrolet Caprice
1976 Chrysler, Dodge Aspen / Plymouth Volare
1975 Chevrolet Monza 2+2
1974 Ford Mustang II
1972 Citroën SM
1971 Chevrolet Vega
1970 Ford Torino

Over half the cars since 1970, are losers. Even the few that sold in decent volume turned out to be crappy cars. I would also include the 300 in that statement, but it seems to have a few fans.

I was surprised to see how much better they seem to be doing lately though. My opinion on this was formed in the 80’s and I haven’t yet seen enough improvement to change it. Maybe in another five years.

When’s the Toyota Mythbusters? I’m totally looking forward to it!

You couldn’t be more wrong. The Toyota Camry and Toyota Prius won the award a couple of years ago. Both are wild sales successes and show no signs of stopping.

Ford’s Taurus won the award in 1986. It would turn out to be a wild sales success that would win back customers from the imports as well as dinging GM and Chrysler in the knee Tonya Harding style. It would later become the bestselling car in America, and is still in production after 22 years, which I think is the longest that an American manufacturer has kept a mainstream car nameplate in use. (not counting sports/performance cars)

The Dodge Caravan won the award in 1996. It too would be a large sales success that almost completely redefined how a minivan is built. Minivans went from wood clad boxes to slick probes. (Ok, that came out wrong). The Chrysler Minivans are still the bestselling minivans in America. (I think.)

I do get your point though about how some COTYs became nothing more than damp squibs. The 1989 Ford Thunderbird, the Chrysler Cirrus and 300 come to mind. Well, the 300 sold well at first, but its success was short lived. It was nothing more than a fad, really.

I think that the North American COTY award is the REAL kiss of death to a cars sales success. Saturn Aura. Need I say more?

I’m prepared to be sympathetic to this elderly lady’s situation, but first I’d want to know more. How much does she now get as an employee’s widow? What is her Social Security income? Has she enrolled in a Medicare supplement insurance plan, and if so, how much does that cost? Has she enrolled in an insurance plan to supplement her Medicare Part D (prescription drug coverage? Is so, how much does that cost? What is her net out-of-purse prescription drug expense?

My guess is the lady is still better off than 90+% of her age cohort. There’s a reason GM was called “generous motors.” When it had half the US market, could set prices to suit it, was reaping big gains in productivity and retiree/health expenses were not burdensome, profits gushed and life was sweet for those in the revenue stream. That’s all gone, along with stockholder equity–the price of a share is now simply a bet that GM might crawl out of the pit. Belatedly, management has decided to take cost-cutting steps it should have taken years ago.

This is because most people aren’t swayed by publications that they don’t read/trust. Most people don’t really care what MT, R&T, C&D, etc say about new cars because they don’t read those magazines. Plus how many awards are there now? There’s JD Power, Strategic Vision, the various car magazines, Consumer Reports, etc. At this point, it’s kind of like T-Ball for six year olds; everyone who plays the game gets an award. Consumer Reports is probably the publication most people, i.e. non-car people, will use in helping them decide which car to purchase.

Let’s put it this way, if you’re in need of a refrigerator, what publications do you look at? Are you looking at Fridge & Freezer and Refrigerator Monthly or Consumer Reports? Unless you read one of the car magazines, it’s awards are unlikely to sway your opinion.

There are internet rumors that GMAC is in possible bankruptcy mode due to it’s Residential Capital business. Together with losses on SUV and truck residuals the end may be near for GMAC.

http://ml-implode.com/viewnews/2008-09-09_GMACinpossibleBankruptcymode.html

GM currently has more models with EPA highway ratings of 30 mpg or better than any other carmaker, 18 in total.

Truth: GM can’t count accurately. GM has eleven models that get 30+ mpg (the Aveo, Cobalt, HHR, Malibu, Classic [the only-sold-to-fleets-because-it's-really-the-old-Malibu-with-a-rebadge model], G5, G6, Vibe, Astra, Aura, and Vue). To get to 18, you count every bodystyle separately (coupes, sedans, 3-doors, 5-doors, with windows, or without). That still doesn’t total 18; you have to count hybrids separately, too. By that logic, Honda doesn’t have three models that hit 30 mpg (Fit, Civic, and Accord). It has six. All that this number really means, though, is that GM cannibalizes its own sales. The Honda Civic, for example, outsold the Cobalt, G5, Aura, and Vibe combined.

More on the “GM still doesn’t make cars that people want to buy” so-called myth

Truth: Williams is right that COTY selections prove nothing; ask Ford how much good the selection of the Thunderbird as MT’s COTY did for them. Moreover, even counting fleet sales, the “award-winning” Malibu and Aura still have made fewer sales, combined, than the Camry so far this year.

It’s a good sign that Malibu sales are up strongly. On the other hand, perhaps one can see where they’re coming from: Impala sales are down 19% on the year, through August. G5 and Aveo sales are actually down (1.4% and 1.8%) on the year, which is problematic, given gas prices (almost as inexplicable as Toyota’s continuing sales slowdown with the Corolla). The bit about the Enclave being up 156% is a stretch. It was introduced in April, but had limited supply out of the gate, that wasn’t solved until GM added a third shift later in summer.

A much worse sign for GM is found in the broader picture of SUV/truck sales. Escalade sales are off 32%, Chevy TrailBlazers down 38%, Tahoes down 26%, Suburbans down 32%, Silverados down 25%, and on, and on. Even the most fuel-efficient Hummer, the H3, is down 46%. In CUVs, the SRX is off by 21% on the year; the Torrent is down 32%. The only good points in GM’s entire CUV/SUV/truck/van portfolio are the aforementioned Enclave, the Acadia (up 9%), and the Vue (their most efficient SUV, up 4%). The imports show declines for many of their own such vehicles, too. However, GM is far more dependent on truck/SUV sales for revenue, and their losses are thus worse, especially given the company’s parlous finances. Perhaps the better statement would be, “GM doesn’t make cars that people want to buy anymore.”

In the end, GMFAF is an exercise in corporate CYA that demonstrates the roots of GM’s problems: an inability to face a difficult reality with directness and honesty. If Wagoner and his people spent as much time addressing problems as denying them, perhaps GM would not have fallen so far.

Doesn’t sound like a brilliant “deal” for the management retirees of GM to me. I think he said she only gets about 55% of what her husband would have gotten had he lived, he wasn’t sure about that.

He DID say he thanked God that he continually turned down management at the GM plant and was happy he stayed a tool & die maker in the union.

So for him the UAW has worked out. Until and if it doesn’t, that is.

Do you think the UAW is going to manage well the funds they’ve been given? It proves to be seen…

We can all hope that they do, for the sake of goodness only knows how many ex-UAW members.

That’s a really good question. Hyundai did it. Kia did it. Mistubishi did it in Canada (and it’s the only reason they sell anything, from what I can tell). Toyota probably could do it, but doesn’t need to. Ditto Honda.

Why won’t GM? I have no idea. When your adoption problem is, according to your own spin, the result of a perception gap, you want to give every impression that you fully believe in your product. This is exactly what Hyundai did: “We know you don’t trust us because we made crap like the Excel and Pony, but we’re so sure we make awesome stuff now that we’re going to insure it for a decade. Go ahead, buy a Sonata. We’re so sure it’ll work that we’ll put money on the line to prove it.

And it worked. GM’s problem is exactly the same, so why isn’t the solution? Near as I can figure, either a) the accountants are being dicks about future costs, b) they don’t believe they’re on the level of Hyundai and/or c) they really don’t think they’re making cars that well.

MYTH: General Motors needs new management.

That is true. GM’s management is all insiders (except Bob Lutz, but one man can only do so much when working against the tide) who think everything will be aight if they keep everything the way it is. Thus why GM is fucked.

To see what a difference new management will make, all you need to do is look at Ford. Bill Ford Jr has stepped aside and let an outsider take his position at CEO. Ever since then, Ford is the only one of the big three to have a concise plan to return to profitability, only Ford has products in the pipeline that are practical and can live up to the hype, and Ford is becoming the only one that people believe will survive.

MYTH: General Motors was mismanaged into the ground by idiots.

See:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Bonham_Smith

The one myth that hasn’t been examined: Is it really Rabid Rick or is that Buster? They both keep getting blown up. After all, the two haven’t been seen in the same place at the same time. Hmmm…

This speaks volumes. Does it not?

Yes, to be competitive with the imports that have no retirement burden young companies in US or high paid pension benefits more of this will have to happen. Also, thanks to US government age descrimination supported by law workers comp and health insurance are higher for an older work force such as the BIG 2.8.

OR, the US levels the playing field and for every dollar the US automakers have to kick in for social welfare benefits the imports or assemble it here imports will have to as well. This will have to include the extended costs of engineer it there, build parts there, machine build there and finally hire a low paid factory work here and call it built in the US. We are not that stupid!

“No, because now they’ll use the standards to justify why they “need” the bailout: “We accept the standards you forced on us but we can’t meet them unless you give us the money to do it.”

Of course they will. I am the last guy who wants to see them get a bailout; however, I certainly expect them to try. I don’t think many people fault them for it either.

Maybe we should start a boycott?