I disagree, there are plenty of outstanding engineers out there, its that US corporate culture does not value engineers or engineering. The computer industry is where the H1b visas immigrants are going, not to manufacturing. Once you are a part of the US cubical world, you discover that engineers are among the lowest perches on the pole, and its rare for any form of engineering career track to exist. Within 10 years of starting, most US automotive engineers either leave the field altogether, or get an MBA and leave hands on engineering behind. What sane person would stay in engineering when an MBA adds an instant 30K to your salary and makes you eligible for the business side company promotions…the only path to big pay and golden parachutes…

Dude, as a marketing guy I have to tell you that no amount of commercials, print ads or media coverage will dig GM out of the hole they’re in this time.

You know what would save GM? Me. Or you. A normal, everyday car guy at the helm, with no political allegiances, no office politics to do him in, and no sacred cows. Hell, if I was on the Board, I’d hire Farago to come in and fix it. And I bet he could. Any normal person can see what’s wrong with GM – but up there in the rare air at RenCen, there are no normal people.

I read in another TTAC where someone mentioned the Avenger. I found myself surprised – I had no idea – and I’m a car guy – that Chrysler was currently selling the Avenger! Or where did the Neon go? Wasn’t that a car they were selling until recently? My grandfather had the same comments about 3 years ago when we showed up in our then 9 year old VW. He said he didn’t even know VW was still in business. Walked around back and wanted to see the engine…

How many normal American consumers don’t know about all the North American GM products or brands? I’ll bet a good number don’t know much about anything Saturn sells these days or much about the Pontiacs either.

GM is too thinly spread out. They need some commercials or ads or something that list all of the GM products at one time. Maybe a long line of red GM products while the camera views from above.

I have long wondered if GM was going down the tubes quietly and with intent. Would shed alot of garbage and possibly come back a contender…

Actually, GM is staring down two barrels: The first barrel has got a #11 choke — that one will go first. The second has got a #7 choke — when that goes off, they are a dead duck.

Well, they might, if it weren’t for the new Camry, Prius, Civic, Fit, Yaris, Versa, Sentra, ES350, tC, RX350/400h, Altima, RAV4, and two mystery Honda hybrids due between now and then.

The “safe” choices aren’t standing still, either.

It’ll be sad to see the General go down. Maybe my “29″ market share GM pin will be worth something on eBay.

Hey, if a 400 pound professional wrestler won’t take no for an answer, I’ll buy whatever he’s selling.

However, they have not done this in about 30 to 40 years, so what makes us think they’re going to do it now?

The problem with cutting brands is this – why do we think the remaining ones would suddenly have some sort of identity? What does Chevy stand for? What does Caddy stand for?

Chevy sure doesn’t stand for reliability. It doesn’t stand for cutting edge tech. It doesn’t stand for lowest price. So even if GM cuts brands ’till Chevy is all that’s left, they still wont have a brand that means anything.

Ingmar says he’s not an American but he sure knows about GM’s part in our automotive history. I suspect some of the other folks’ comments come from people who grew up after GM started its long decline in the 70’s.

I like to say GM lost its way. It forgot what a Chevy should be; what a Buick should mean; how a Pontiac or Olds should be distinctive. Sloan’s hierarchy of brands recognized there must be substantive (size, engine, transmission, style, performance) as well as psychic (thriftiness, technological leadership, prestige) differences.

Under Roger Smith the brands’ decline into nondescript mediocrity accelerated. Worse yet, product quality went downhill. One began to wonder if anyone at GM gave a damn.

My fear is that GM has reached the tipping point. It apparently can’t fund development of modern versions of Chevy II’s, GTOs and Roadmasters. And even if the money can be found, it may be too late to change buyer perceptions.

Talk about antibling, my uncle worked in the public schools so rather than buying an Caddy coupe he bought a Toronado. “It wouldn’t look right for a school teacher to have a Caddy.”

My point is that other then fleeting moment in history (DeLorean era Pontiac, for example) none of GM’s brands had any real identity of their own. The identities of GM’s brands were wholly dependent on what price strata they existed in, becase GM itself is the brand (that brand being “We’re GM, an automobile manufacturer”).

GM’s brand problems date back to the 50’s when the price strata began to collapse; Caddy reached down and Chevy reached up, pushing the other brands out. This wasn’t a problem at the time as the era saw the death of much of the America’s car manufacturers and very little foreign competition.

What does Pontiac say to me? Nothing.

- EVs went bust.
- Fuel cells and all the Hy Wire hype has been abandoned.
- Hybrids were mocked and ridiculed as “experiments” for 5 years – now GM has the half assed belt driven hybrids which leapfrogs nothing. And $10k premium 2 mode hybrid drivetrains that cost 4x more than Honda or Toyotas.
- Hummer’s became reskinned Denalis and Colorados.
- Aveo?…as 1980’s Korean as you can get today!
- Malibu or Aura?…takes GM 30 years to finally get a car that is competitive to the Fusion / Accord / Camry / Altima / Mazda6 / Sonata (that’s fighting for a small piece of a very competitive market).

In GM I’ve seen little to nothing in terms of leapfrogging any of its competition – even Chrysler or Ford or Yugo!

Here is what GM has actually leapfrogged:
- CEO salary for a company that loses billions of $s in the past 3 years
- highest level of market share loss in the last 8 years
- largest market cap loss in history in the last 5 years
- lowest stock price since 1954

If you ever watch Football you’ll learn that teams who live by trick plays and hail marys never win in the long run – it’s the steady defense and offense that wins the championships (or cheating).

I am not an american, so perhaps I have missed something in the history of Buicks recent past. But Buick once had a place in the ladder in a segment one could call “near luxury” nowadays. The spot that the Toyota Avalon and Volkswagen Phaeton holds today. Buick was the choise for those that didn’t want to show off their money like the Cadillac-crowd did. It was a true car for the bourgeoisie, the lawyers, the doctors. Not unlike Mercedes back in time when Daimler-Benz built cars that lasted a life time.

The point is, I still think there’s room for a Buick of tomorrow with the same catchet. Or no one would by a Toyota Avalon. That is where Buick could be. But more beautiful and refined. Perhaps with a design language of their own, L-Finesse style. Like an early fifties Roadmaster.

In fact, I want to see this question as a TTAC Question of The Day: What is Pontiac? Or for that matter, what is Buick? Or what does any GM brand have for reason to exist? What core value do they have? What meaning in life to they fulfill? What’s their reason for being here at all? Because, GM does seem to live in oblivion on this matter. If TTAC:s best and brightest can not answer these questions, then GM is fucked for eternity…