Dynamic88: While the 1953/60 Studebaker Coupe/Hardtops can be tight for tall drivers, the 1961/64 Hawks with bucket seats have more leg room than most cars of the time frame.

My 1963 Studebaker R2 Super Hawk has more leg room than my 1968 Olds Delta 88 2dr HT has, and I’m not short or light of weight: 6-5 335.

Here’s something else to consider: Assuming that GM goes Ch 11, which then gives them the opportunity to stiff (or at least strong-arm) their creditors, who gets the worst screwing?

Seems to me the warranty holders (the GM car owners) have to be protected at all costs. Going into bankruptcy is going to create huge “trust” issues anyway, so any backing down on warranty claims would create the automotive equivalent of a run on the bank – people would be doing anything they could to ditch their GM vehicles before they started breaking down and needless to say, nobody with half a brain would buy a new GM vehicle with the warranty coverage a questionable thing. So GM would have to shout from the rooftops that warranty claims would continue to be honored, regardless of the fallout.

But then comes the question of who takes the fall? My guess is the unions. And if that happens, then what happens to GMs union-friendly reputation? Do they hire a non-union workforce? If so, then they’d likely become automota-non-grata at any union shop in the country. Parking lots that now only admit US made vehicles might start adding GM vehicles to their “not welcome here” list. I saw what our hometown brewer Coors did to the unions back in the 80’s (I think it was) and staunch union supporters to this day refer to Coors as “That Scab beer.” Does the newly-streamlined GM get the same rep?

And assuming arguendo that GM is able to escape being forced into Chapter 7 and emerges a leaner, meaner company with lower prices to match, what then? Does once-proud GM start over again at the bottom of the automotive heap (somewhere below even Hyundai and Kia) offering vehicles whose primary attraction is their low price? Do Corvette and Caddy remain the flagships of the GM fleet or does reorganization mean the death knell of such extravagant rides?

As for whether an automotive company can survive bankruptcy, it’s not a perfect analogy, but International Harvester was once one of the most prominent truck and farm machinery builders in the US, and even had a line of light trucks and SUVs that were quite well respected in their time. By the late 70’s they were in bad shape and they finally went under in the early 80’s, only to emerge some years later as Navistar. After a few years of the Navistar brand, they slowly started switching back to the “international” name (though apparently “Harvester” was dropped, more’s the pity.)

I wonder if something similar could happen with GM: Bankruptcy, dissolution (I think IH went ch. 7 but I’m not certain,) reemergence under a different name, and then, after years, rehabilitation.

Any thoughts? I’m really enjoying this discussion.

Studebaker went bankrupt in 1933. Studebaker’s president Albert Erskine then committed suicide.

This all came about because Erskine continued to pay stock dividends from working capital after the market crashed on Black Tuesday…October 29, 1929.

The company rebounded, but failed entirely in 1966.

I would not buy a GM product at ANY price.

According to Dan Howes of the DEtroit Press (a newspaper very friendly to the domestic mfgs.) this is it for these companies. The cash burn that Farago has been talking about for months, make that years, has finally burned down to the end of the fuse and is at the powder.

You cannot borrow to see as in the case of GM 1 billion a month gone forever. There comes a time when re-organization is all that's left. All of the business models that were put in place to turn the Detroit three around are trashed. They all had one thing in common. Trucks and SUV's would provide the profits to retool the companies. In about 4 months this dream has evaporated.

Someone wrote in the blog, they simply have to make more money on the small cars. Yes, but profits have become a function of a percentage of the selling price. You would have to double the selling price of a sub-compact to about 30K to replace large vehicle profits. Even if you doubled the selling rate of small cars by the domestic mfgs.

Unless all of the foreign builders follow suit that is not going to happen. If you could raise a subcompact $1K a year evert year and book all of the increase as profits it would take 20 years to see the formula be successful.

The idea of selling more small cars by simply retooling the present truck plants won't work because the margins are too small on the small cars. Guess who doesn' have even 2 years to do this?

I can’t really see what benefit Toyota would gain by buying GM outright? other than monumental bragging rights, but I’ve seen little evidence of Toyota indulging in gestures like bragging just for the sake of it if there is a more subtle and pragmatic route to further their business aims?

1. probably built to tighter tolerances, though not necessarily with ‘better’ materials (unless it was a Lexus-branded Corvette). Fiberglass body is immediately swapped with aluminum.

2. pushrod V8 replaced with DOHC motor. High-end HP probably the same, but low-end torque suffers.

3. all steering feel is sucked out of the beast. ToMoCo engineers spend more time fiddling with the NVH than on the suspension.

4. disjointed, drawn-by-a-blind-man styling rules here; all kinds of dissonant, contrasting and contrary angles dominate! Proportions –that’s a word Toyota designers have never heard of…

5. Toyota has a plant in Kentucky, right? No change here.

6. but the car’s name is promptly changed to Supra…

Take a wild guess what kind of premiums they will be paying on any debt placements.

The 1953 line also had poor assembly quality. The sheetmetal didn’t fit well. The flexing of the frame over rough roads was also noisy, which resulted in “thumps” and “bumps” being transmitted to the passenger compartment as the car went down the road.

Ironically, in view of the trashing that GM gets for what it has produced over the last 30 or so years, in the 1950s, GM vehicles had good assembly quality, and its cars were well thought-out for the times. If GM had built the Starliner/Starlight, it would have been a much better developed car, and probably a big success (as it initially sold well for Studebaker).

I know people who would throw hissyfits if you drive Japanese cars in their driveways.

Would they throw a hissyfit if I parked my 1999 Cadillac in their driveway? It pukes out an oil spot that measures about 12×18 inches everytime it’s driven. I have had the car since it was a year old, took very good care of it and changed the oil regularly.

The Cadillac Dealer would fix it for about $3500.00. A regular mechanic does not even want to touch it. Toyota offered me $500.00 for it on trade.

(by the way, I’m not buying another GM product)

I had a chance to sit in a ‘53 Stude coupe. Beautiful car. Ergonomic nightmare. The steering wheel rubs the top of your thighs. Any company that can’t even get the steering column angle correct deserves to go under.

If its not, it would be proof positive that the GM fans are really, really, really desperate.

In truth, there are plenty of consumers who wouldn’t buy a GM product at any price. And won’t. This is the sad legacy of GM’s broken branding, dealer bloat and safe-fail engineering. One way of another, it’s only a matter of time before all bets are off.

I resemble that remark. I’m not the only one, and therein lies the rub.

But if Toyota raises its prices in some sort of tacit agreement with The General, then there’s a good collusion case for the antitrust lawyers.

And tose FXs were fairly reliable, too, even WITH GM’s meddling.

Warranty shmarranty! If you’ve got the storage, buy two and use one for parts!

I’m drawing a blank – doesn’t another automaker still build the Avanti in tiny numbers?

Yes.

http://www.avantimotors.com/

Hey, I will! A new Impala, Malibu or Lucerne is definitely worth $2,500 to $3,000, even without a warranty. Now, at 8/10 the price of a Honda, I’d have to think about it.

You hit the nail precisely on center. And guess who will be packing up their tools and walking away when C11 is announced… The truly talented people will leave (those who haven’t already gone) and GM will be left with a bunch of clueless suits like Rick “Trust Me” Wagoner and people who don’t want to give up their retirement.