BTW, my family owned Pontiacs for years as one of our customers was the local Pontiac dealer.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/overview.aspx?year=2008&make=Pontiac&model=G6&wa=wsignin1.0

Anyone critical of G6 probably has not driven one. They are fine cars, especially for the price. The new 4 Cylinder with 6 speed auto produces very good fuel economy as well.

The G8 is a much larger car than Accord or Camry, is not in the same class, and should not be expected to achieve the same mileage. If it comes close, it really should be viewed as more efficient.

I agree with the editorial. The G8 is a speciality car that will sell in limited amounts both due to demand and volume restraints. Its rear wheel drive is both a curse and a blessing. Pontiac owners in the Snow Belt who have been driving the front wheel drive Gran Prixs and Bonnevilles for the past twenty five years aren’t about to switch over in large numbers to this car. These cars sold in the hundreds of thousands annually. Pontiac has nothing to replace these models with unless they get a Lucern, Impala, etc from its sister divisions.

I would not want to be a Pontiac dealer these days. Its SUVs are poor (rebadged Chevys), they killed the Aztec and the minivan and the G6 has not received great reviews. The only thing they have going for it is the Vibe, a rebadged Toyota Matrix, a relatively inexpensive car.

I would love to buy or lease this car which I beleive to be an incredible bargain but due to $4.00 a gallon gas and rear wheel drive I will probably have to pass.

I am 56 years old and have been driving for 40 years. For the first 25 years, I drove mostly large American cars like the Delta 88, Pontiac Bonnevilles, etc. with large V-8 engines. I remember getting stuck in the snow even with good snowtires and looking for people to help me push the cars out of the snow. For the past 15 years I have been driving front wheel drive cars, 1988 Pontiac Bonneville, 1997 Ford Contour with 5 speed and Mazda Millenia S. I had snow tires on the last two cars and very few problems in bad weather conditions. Maybe I can relocate to the sun belt and buy a G8.

Another open issue is the relaibility. There have been some issues with relaibility with this car in Australia. Hopefully this has been fixed.

I do hope this car succeeds in the marketplace.

European and Japanese automobiles have been engineered to last 200,000 miles and beyond – and I have seen many examples on the road today. 200,000 mile cars from the Big 2.8 (where engineering takes a back seat to marketing) – not so many. I’ve seen plenty of them in the junkyard, though…

It started off with the underside piece of plastic that covers the gauge cluster. Shoved the folded paper that had persons name on it who last detailed the car into it to attempt to silence it. The driver side overhead light rattled and the rear passenger side roof handle(front plastic cover) rattled. So much tire noise one would about go deaf. Same for the extreme wind noise near the top of the windows. I forgot to check if it had an anti lock brake module under the hood, but you can come to a sliding stop and have smoke roiling from the tires to the point you can smell them inside the car with the windows rolled up.

If someone is sitting in the passenger seat and isn’t too prompt or apt to get their seat belt on quickly enough, the warning tone is just about enough to drive one bonkers. That car is a land barge and a nightmare in most parking lots. Huge car and hardly any room inside. Cramped as all get.

Hard snap in plastic might not rattle when it’s new, but overtime as the plasticizers evaporate and the size and characteristics of the plastics change; rattles develop.

24k miles and rattle city. I’m going to start requesting certain models and stop getting stuck with sub par. Picking certain renters because of what they offer to rent.

You know what, I’d consider the G8 if GM had imported and sold it as a Holden.

Additional problems with the G8 would be a lack of a manual transmission and a lack of paddle shifters on the automatic. Paddle shifters may be excusable for me (because i don’t like GM’s paddle shifters anyways) but no manual means no sales to the crowd that are buying up STI’s and EVO’s which cost even more than a fully loaded G8 GT.

You’re free to disagree with it, but I believe that the underlying points of the editorial are to argue that (a) the Pontiac brand should be discontinued entirely and that (b) GM squanders a lot of valuable resources by spending this amount of time and effort on introducing a car that will sell in only small quantities, and therefore will probably sell at a loss.

The op-ed is not critiquing the car as a car, but how it serves General Motors as a company. While I don’t agree with every observation in the op-ed, the implications are valid — in a time when the company is in crisis, how do this car and this brand help to right the ship?

I am left wondering whether this was the best use of precious resources. The decision to put the toe in the water with a low volume car, just to “see what happens”, is a half-assed business strategy. If the plan is to come up with a category killing full-sized sedan, then come up with a plan and a brand that can sell lots of them.

We can quibble over the exact number, but GM needs to have vehicles in its lineup that can sell 100,000+ units per year to retail (not fleet) buyers. Pontiac does not need another halo car — it already has Solstice for that — so if they can’t sell enough of these to pull in the cash or to sell other Pontiacs, what’s the point?

Look, they are doing exactly what people having been moaning about for years. They are selling CARS. They are selling RWD cars. They are selling big torquey V-8 cars. They are selling unique cars not found under an Oldsmobile nameplate, or a Buick nameplate or a Chevy name plate.

Were they late? Yeah. Certainly. Ought have been selling these or some version of these beside the SUVs and trucks all through the cheap gas decade of the 1990s. Have they gotten complacent over the years? Absolutely and they will anytime the consumer just buys what they build without looking at all the options.

Somebody mentioned the gas mileage figures of the Accord and Camry vs this Pontiac and complained the Pontiac got lower mileage. Well, yeah! Of course it gets a little less mileage. It is RWD and RWD vehicles generally take a small hit on mileage. I saw a figure of 15% worse somewhere. The Pontiac is liekly tuned for power where the Accord and Camry are aimed at a different driver who values reasonable gas mileage over outright power.

GM has made alot of mistakes but let’s quit the roasting and give them a few kudos where deserved! The Camaro (if it ever gets here) will be awesome. Not my cup of tea but it will be awesome. The Pontiac lineup keeps getting better and better. Still not generally my cup of tea but I would not be unhappy with their cars in my driveway though I am generally a Honda/VW/German car fan. The Volt will truely be a first (except what a few niche conversion companies are doing with the Prius).

We got an awesome car in the GTO a few years ago. It was a good car, went like stink, and the styling was pretty decent if a little bit import-ish. Handled good for a RWD. Hell, even Clarkson liked it. I’d drive one of those but I have been driving four cylinders so long I don’t know what I’d do hauling around a whole second engine’s worth of power and displacement.

You guys are doing the same thing with Saturn. Moan, bitch, complain. AGAIN GM has brought over a unique to North America compact 3 and 5 door car with good value. Yeah, they aren’t going to make a whole lot of money per unit but at least they want to sell us something worth having. Let’s bring on the Zafira too, the Corsa and the Agila, the Meriva too. And the twin top. If the demand is there they will likely setup an assembly line here building them from scratch or building knockdown kits from Europe.

You bitch when they do something wrong and then you bitch some more b/c you fail to see when they are doing something right. Why can’t you guys see this? They already have enough SUVs for two car companies and maybe if we are lucky they’ll cancel a dozen or two.

Encourage GM a little and maybe we’ll see diesels and an even wider range of vehicles.

They do have problems – don’t get me wrong. They are going to have to get the UAW parasite off their back. They do have management who have one track minds and persist being out of touch with working Americans just like our politicians. If they listen to the all of the moaning and bitching done on this friggin’ website how could they cater to what we Americans want??? Judging by this site it’s impossible to see the right path to follow. You guys have just turned into white noise. For me as much as I like to read this site – comments especially – all this bitching and moaning is starting to wreck the site’s credibility.

Not enough like an Accord, too much like an Accord, not enough power, too much power using too much gas and the gas prices are up….

We aren’t going to get a $25K BMW from GM. From anyone else either. We’re not going to get a 400 mile plug-in hybrid from Ford for $14K.

They’re making mistakes and they are making some good choices too but all the ranting here seems to miss that point alot of the time.

Renault and Fiat and a long list of other car manufacturers have left the USA and instead of a death watch series we prob ought to be asking how long until Detroit moves it’s home offices to Singapore or Hong Kong. Where the car rags have forgotten how to make constructive criticism, you guys have forgotten how to give compliments where they are due.

What do I want from GM? A Honda priced Opel plug-in hybrid Astra with a 75 mile range. Yeah, I know ain’t going to happen but I’m wishing… Concentrate on quality…

Flame suit, Nomex, and flame proof cup on and zipped…

Like it or not the age of the baby boomers is coming to an end. As they move into retirement they will play a smaller and smaller role in auto purchases. So why in Hell is GM targeting 60 year olds for a NEW product?

The purpose, ultimately, of the G8 is to add volume to the Camaro build in Oshawa. Same platform. Other versions likely to follow…

Good ol’ Lee? At least he got people thinkin’ ’bout buyin’ cars in the early ’80’s, when people simply weren’t…and those days, I fear, are near at hand again…

The Pontiac brand is too far gone to do a decent car justice. Pontiac’s current US mind-share is next to nothing right along that for Saturn (forget Saab, everyone else already did). Even Buick at least has some China buzz going for it, but Pontiac? Bargain basement Bimmer … NOT. Every time we turn around GM is “positioning” another one of its brands as Import Fighters. Guess what Sparky, every vehicle has to be ready to do market battle with the import nameplates and Chevrolet is the dog GM has to have in the fight. Pontiac is a great big waste of time and money.

Chevrolet and Cadillac … everything else is noise.

“Like Lee Iacocca used to say, 25 years ago, “If you find a BETTER car, elsewhere, BUY IT!””

Hah, he sold a boat load of K-Crap Cars with that BS tag line. Truth be told, most companies were in fact making better cars than the junk Iacocca was pushing out the door. Never underestimate the sales power of The Big Lie Repeated Often.

I don’t know where you got your numbers from, but the Forrester XT pulls 0-60 times in the high 5 second range (it is essentially a tall wrx wagon).

The reason Farago had a point here is that this a fun car to hoon in for a day, but most people (including some enthusiasts like myself) will go for something a bit more practical or nicer. For a bit more cash, a G37 is a much nicer car and brand. Otherwise, a GTI 5 dooror Legacy GT will do. People on a budget will shy away for the cost and those looking to show they can splash cash will want something more snobbish. That said, there will still be a market for this car. That market is just on the decline.

The people who disagree seem to be mis-understanding his argument. RF never said the G8 isn’t a good car or isn’t competitively priced; all piston-heads would presumably love driving this car. The problem is that GM cannot possibly make money off of this or gain any branding points even in the best case scenarios. Thus, it’s outrageously illogical of GM to bring this Aussie over here given their diminishing and finite resources, even if this actually benefits piston heads who now have yet another choice in the 30K RWD sport sedan/muscle car market.

Have you seen any of the videos of the G8 GT? It comes from the factory with sticky Bridgestones, it barely squeaks off the line. Sure, you can smoke them, but if going on a 0-60 run…wheres your argument?

ALSO. I am VERY curious where you get your information. The 0-60 time on the model you mentioned isn’t even in the same neighborhood, zip code, county, state, or even country of the GT. The forester isn’t even a CAR.

The G8 is QUICK, turns a respectable 0.85G, is attractive, priced AMAZINGLY well, and would be the perfect car to BRING GM out of any problems it has, if only there were more people that were actually into DRIVING a car than just using a car by default.

‘09 Forester XT
Vitals:
• Manufacturer: Subaru
• Model tested: Forester 2.5XT
• Model year: 2009
• Base Price: $19,995
• Price as Tested: $26,195
• Engine type: 2.5-liter DOHC turbocharged Boxer four
• Horsepower: 224 @ 5,200 RPM
• Torque: 226 @ 2,800 RPM
• Red line: 6,500 RPM
• Transmission: 4-speed automatic / 5-speed manual
• Curb Weight: 3,440 lbs
• LxWxH: 179.5″ x 70.1″ x 66.9″
• Wheelbase: 103″
• Tires: 225/55 front, 225/55 rear
• Drive type: AWD
• 0 – 60 mph: 7.5 seconds [estimated]
• 1/4-mile: N/A
• Top speed: 130 MPH
• EPA Fuel economy city/highway: 19/24 MPG
• NHTSA crash test rating: N/A

G8 GT
Vitals:
• Manufacturer: Pontiac
• Model tested: G8 GT
• Model year: 2008
• Base Price: $29,995
• Price as Tested: $32,745
• Engine type: 6.0-liter OHV V8
• Horsepower: 361 @ 5,300 RPM
• Torque: 385 @ 4,400 RPM
• Red line: 6,000 RPM
• Transmission: 6-speed automatic w/ manumatic shifting
• Curb Weight: 4,100 lbs
• LxWxH: 196.1″ x 74.8″ x 57.7″
• Wheelbase: 114.8″
• Tires: 245/40 front, 245/40 rear
• Drive type: RWD
• 0 – 60 mph: 5.3 seconds [estimated]
• 1/4-mile: 13.8 seconds @ 104 mph
• Top speed: 136 MPH
• EPA Fuel economy city/highway: 15/24 MPG
• NHTSA crash test rating: N/A

I think its an excellent car. Most of you don’t sound like car enthusiasts.

I plan to buy the GXP version in 2009. LS3? Oh, hell yes.

In order for the ‘product-led’ turnaround GM is speaking of to succeed these solid products (G8, Malibu, CTS) must be competitive not at launch, but for their lifecycle. Once a product is known, and recoginzed as having a certain quality a brand develops. The competitition has already done this. When you buy a 3-series you’re buying a 20+ year history. When you buy a GM truck, history comes as a standard feature. Products do define brand, but it is the consistency which determines the strength of the brand.

The point of this being a deathwatch entry, at least to me, is that whatever success GM has with this and other respectable niche products, they will be in the falling action of the GM story. Not all parts of the DW are GM mistakes, more of a chonicle of the end.

Long story short, Good landing (Solid product), wrong airport (market and badge).