Personally I wish both configuration were readily available, but I seem to be in a very small minority of the market.

Martin, I can confirm that pickup trucks are still generally slow, underpowered, stodgy, and uncomfortable compared to today’s cars.

Which is a little like saying that a tomato is not nearly as sweet as an apple. It’s true, but it’s also irrelevant. Because trucks today are fast enough, powerful enough, and comfortable enough that combined with the additional capabilities that a truck brings, it’s not nearly the bad compromise that it was back in the 50’s.

I would agree with that. However, it’s fair to challenge the brand and the price point.

The GTO was a flop because it was possible to buy a pony car from Ford for less money, and because the styling betrayed the name. I suspect that most customers who would be drawn to a “GTO” because of the brand legacy of the GTO would not have seen any lineage between a tarted up Monaro and the 60’s classic. It needed a lower price, a different name and some different styling cues. (Hell, why even change it? I could be alone, but I thought that the Monaro was a pretty handsome design that could work in the US.)

Pontiac has not done well as a purveyor of trucks and its brand is not oriented toward trucks, so why start now? Before anyone rushes in to remind me that it is built on a car platform, I already know this, but the question becomes whether the casual customer will know or will bother finding out.

Personally, I would have badged it as a Chevy, with a plan to eventually offer 4-, 6- and specially-badged 8-cylinder versions of it. And I would be patient with it — it could take years to prove itself. And I would accept the very real possibility that it could flop, no matter what you do with it, as it is unclear whether or not there is a market for it.

yankinwaoz condemns GM for getting it wrong and congratulates himself for being right all along, but not a single ute has landed yet on these shores.

It makes sense to me that if you got the product in one part of the world, try it out in another. If it doesn’t fly, try something else. Don’t knock ‘em for taking business risks. The risk-adverse idiots in GM’s past ain’t there no more.

oboylepr is frustrated by contradictory news from the RenCen about production plans. I would bet its hard to make plans when 35mpg cafe legislation is bouncing around the House and Senate.

Sure the new Lambda CUVs are clothed by 3 and possibly 4 brands, but they are really different from one another, not like the cookie cutter GM of the 80s, and most of what I see coming out recently is pretty fucused.

If thats a stale business model from the 50s, then Toyota, Honda, Nissan/Renault, PSA, Volkswagen, Fiat, and Ford must be just as misguided as GM.

I do like the idea of turning all GM’s branded dealers into GM dealers. Course, that would cause litigation for years to come. But Hey, isn’t that happening to some extent with the new GMC, Pontiac, Buick dealer consolidation. Maybe we won’t have to suffer from pontiac minivans, econoboxes or SUVs anymore. Maybe a hot, rear drive, 2-seater with an open bed in the back could be my next car!

KatiePuckrik has the best advice! Bob, if you’re listening, get some better suits!

I recently test drove a new Ford F-150, Dodge Ram and the new GMC Sierra Denali with 403hp and all are quite awful on the street. Everything you said about trucks still applies to them. The performance and comfort of every truck on the market still falls far short of modern cars.

I owned 1996 Chevrolet K1500 4×4 in the Midwest and only used it for errands because of how it drove. Now that I live in Phoenix and have driven the latest batch I will not own another one. I have no idea how people daily drive these things with their taxed acceleration, floppy handling or fit them in small garages and tight parking spaces.

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not the Ute is a far more practical choice for most people as a daily driver, quarter-mile burner, twisty attacker and hauler than the fullsize trucks on the market.

I drove the old VY SS model when I was in Sydney back in 2004 and it was an utterly fantastic car. Actually better than the Monaro that GM sold here. Like the Monaro this is an excellent car whether it catches on in the US or not. Holden makes great products that eclipse most of the transportation choices people make in this country.

Count me in the niche group, but I would buy a Ute here as a Pontiac or Chevrolet. GM doesn’t expect to move more than 3,000 to 5,000 of them and I’m sure that can be accomplished here in the Southwest alone where these types of cars remain popular despite their age.

Now fast forward 50 years: Trucks are no longer stodgy, uncomfortable or underpowered. In fact, now that cars have primarily gone to FWD platforms with transverse engines (with a few notable exceptions) trucks are the last place you can get big honkin’ V-8’s in a RWD platform. And as has been pointed out here before, the interior of many modern “dirt haulers” is more plush than a whore house. Adjustable seats, leather, velour, multi-speaker surround sound systems, climate control, power everything, etc etc seem to be the rule rather than the exception.

Furthermore, car-based trucks didn’t just disappear with the El Camino in the mid 80’s. Dodge had the Rampage, VW had the Rabbit Pickup, more recently Subaru had the Baja, and all of them bombed miserably in the sales department because the raison d’etre for the car-based pickup has essentially disappeared, and along with it the potential customers.

This is quite reminiscent of the Dodge Challenger soon-to-be fiasco.

Message to GM: The 70’s are over. Deal with it.

GM should dump the NA biz model they have; Chevrolet for cheaper cars; Aveo(if you must), Cobalt/HHR, Malibu, Lucerne, Corvette & G8 which should be the Impala.

Cadillac if you want to go ritzy – spend some dosh on the CTS & the STS and send them after the Germans & Lexus, and trucks, SUVs = GMC

This model works for Toyota

I disagree on brands – the most important thing is product – I would predict a giant leap for Chevy if the Camry become one overnight

Who is expected to buy the El G8 at 31k? People in this range can cross shop anything. It’s not even a percieved necessity at that price point because you can get a real truck for less. And let’s be realistic, the real trucks of today ride nicely.

I don’t remember who bought the El Camino last time around. What was the allure? Aside from it being different looking, I don’t get it. Is it a Nascar thing? (I don’t get that either. It’s not stock cars so it might as well be real race cars.)

And Omaha may get 5 feet of snow next week for all anyone knows. If you are betting on last year’s weather repeating, you are making a suckers bet with or without “climate change”.

As do the losses.

Think GTO, which certainly must have been a money loser. (Even the modest sales projections were missed.)

I seriously doubt that this will be a hot product. I could see cultivating it so that it eventually becomes a reasonably successful, bread-and-butter vehicle for an unserved niche. But with the typical Detroit mentality behind it, I doubt that they have the patience to do anything as crazy as develop a coherent brand with products to match…

The only GM brand that needs a clear identity IMO is Caddy.

Brands matter! Brand is the reason that you pay more for a bag of Green Giant frozen vegetables than the Plain Wrap sitting alongside it, or why you might buy a cup from Starbucks instead of Bob’s Coffeehouse and Bait Shop down the road.

A great product can define or transcend brand, but that is rare, and it requires a great product. I like the Holdens myself, but they are good vehicles, not fantastic, stupendous ones. Like the GTO, this one will be crippled by its brand, not helped by it.

As long as these are gonna be really good cars that we’re talking about, I don’t understand how this anything to do with a “Deathwatch”. I think the fact that this is edition #156 is funny and ironic.

But what about the loss of ground clearance? In Omaha, “We don’t need no stinkin’ ground clearance any more,” thanks to climate shift, global warming, or whatever the media calls it today. Most winter precip is sleet and freezing rain. Low center of gravity beats the macho look, here.

Just don’t fill up the fender wells with those ridiculous huge wheels that dumb-ass kids of all ages slobber over; or if you can’t resist that crap in warm weather, switch to smaller, more sensible 15″ or 16″ shoes for winter. The slush needs room for outflow.

I think he is disguised as “cfisch” ;-)

It’s not at all silly or stupid to draw the comparison. It’s quite appropriate to wonder whether there will be much demand in the US for a car with a truck bed.

Aussies love their utes. But Americans haven’t bought any of these in quite awhile, so it’s unclear whether they’ll buy them now. Particularly if fuel prices stay this high, I have my doubts that this will sell in any reasonable quantities. Badging it as a Pontiac probably won’t help matters, either.

"Rival" "Competition" is really subjective in the end. I can choose to shop between the 528i the CTS or the Rolls Phantom.

I'm not bound by GM's or any else's expectations or conclusions. A bigger car than the 3-series with similar luxury and price would be a good sell to me. Hell, 3-series size and price is marketable, Cadillac can even offer a smaller car at the same price as the CTS or higher simultaneously.

Silly, dysfunctional and ridiculous perceptions of such moves, seem to often result in getting shun and shamed for having such opinions. What ever. I wish many people would wakeup, stop their dysfunctional attachment to cars as determinative of hierarchy or value. Stop shaming, criticizing and judging themselves and others.

There is no real hierarchy or defective behavior on anyones part. Prices do not determine product, or competence. Prices are human set, the products do not price themselves. Each and everyone is individually free to come to their own conclusion.

I can cross shop a Civic Si with a Phantom, and I am free to not feel bad about it. If I like changing gears in the Civic as much as riding in the Phantom, than perhaps the Civic is worth $350k to me or vise versa $16k for the Phantom, or any other amount.

My life is my own, I'm a independent co-creator of my future, and owner of my choices. Other behaviors do not affect my life.

BMW 5-Series: 191.1 inches long
Cadillac CTS: 191.6 inches long
BMW 3-Series: 178.2 inches long

That’s right. The new CTS is juuuuust a little bit bigger than a 5-Series, and more than a whole foot longer than its supposed rival, which makes no sense whatsoever.

The first two brands that receive Alpha cars are the worst two choices in GM’s stable. One is Cadillac, which we’ve already carpet-bombed for deciding to erode its image with an even cheaper car than the CTS. But the news of the week: the second company to get the Alpha platform would be… Chevrolet.

Cadillac is supposed to be a global brand and from what I have heard the CTS is only slightly smaller than the BMW 5-Series. In most of the world the 5-Series is considered a big car. BMW sells way more 3-Series than 5-Series, therefore to be a serious player Cadillac needs a 3-Series sized car.

I think that even in the US the Cadillac brand will not be damaged by a car that is the same size as the 3-Series.

Another factor not reported in this piece – Holden really needs this export deal. The new Commodore was engineered with US export in mind from the get-go. Holden is facing decreased sales of it’s fullsize car line at home and is becoming more and more dependent on their export business to sustain the company. The maximum amount of G8s they can supply is 50,000 and at that number their line runs at capacity. Without it Holden will lose money. That’s probably the real reason why the car and it’s Ute and Sportwagon variants are coming here. In fact the only reason the wagon exists at all in Australia was because they felt they could count on US export to make a good business case for it.

Oshawa is being retooled to build a variant of Holden’s chassis but not the exact same thing. The structure is changed enough from the Commodore/G8 for the Camaro that it’s unique to North America. The Commodore/G8 could not be built on the same line unless the car was completely redesigned. Barring a radical dip in the dollar that will not happen until 2012.

As for the Ute, it’s not the SSR.

The comparison is not only silly, it’s also stupid. The SSR was an expensive toy made out of the TrailBlazer aimed at the same audience that bought the Plymouth Prowler and retro Ford Thunderbird. GM made it in response to the concept. What sank it more than anything else was the price – it cost as much as a Corvette. It’s underpinnings didn’t make it a nice cruiser or a thrilling performer either.

The Ute as the Pontiac G8 ST does not have any of these issues.

It is a muscle car no different from the G8 sedan underneath, mechanically, B-pillar forward or inside. It’s not priced like a Corvette. It’s not based on a dismal SUV like the TrailBlazer. It’s reported it will come here in V8, fully-optioned trim at only $31,000. That’s cheaper than the loaded G8 GT sedan and very reasonable for what other V8 muscle cars like a well-equipped Mustang GT or Charger R/T go for.

The Ute is going to be sold by Pontiac because Pontiac is already selling the other two variants of this car. The Pontiac parts are already in production and ready to be put on each variant of the Commodore as they roll down Holden’s line.

Creating new parts for Chevrolet or any other brand would delay the release by a year or more and by then the window would be pretty much closed. It would also be obvious to most people that the G8 sedan and the Ute at another showroom would be very similar if not the same cars, the same rebadge insanity GM is constantly bashed for on this site. It would be as bad as selling Opels through Chevrolet and Saturn instead of just Saturn. Why have Saturn then if they can’t sell a unique product by themselves?

GM also wanted to avoid a wave of negative, purist reaction from sinking the Ute like it did the Monaro by not affixing the El Camino name to it.

The Ute is a great car. It’s not only a terrific performer and comfortable cruiser but it will haul as much in it’s tray as what most people use the beds on their fullsize trucks for. And it will do it without all the drawbacks of truck like abysmal fuel consumption, tippy-handling, poor acceleration, etc.

You can also be assured it will be one of the biggest head-turners of the year once it hits our streets. The styling alone should sell quite a few of them.

If GM markets the Ute not only for it’s tire-shredding performance but also as a credible car-based alternative to a truck much like Subaru markets their Legacy Outback wagon they may be on to something.

You can check out the Ute’s website and see what it’s all about.

http://www.evolutionendshere.com.au/

You can also see the Commodore Sportwagon which Pontiac will be selling as the G8 wagon as well.

http://www.holdencampaign.com.au/calendar/

Holden will be splitting their capacity of 50,000 cars up between the the G8 sedan, G8 ST and G8 Sportwagon models. Expect the majority to be sedans and numbers on the other two will be adjusted based on demand.

1. The complete and utter failure of the SSR probably has product planners frightened that a similar fate would await another Chevy-badged sport truck.

2. The domestic brands probably perceive being unable to win on the subject of reviving classic nameplates. When they do it (i.e. GTO), they’re lambasted for not doing the original model justice, and when they don’t (i.e. G8 ST), they’re criticized for squandering potential brand equity.

BUT.

The SSR flopped primarily because it was ridiculously priced. Right on top of the Corvette, IIRC. If the ‘Ute’s pricing remains in the same $30K ballpark as its G8 progenitor, I can’t imagine it would have such a hard time finding buyers.

Also, unlike the Monaro nee GTO, the ‘Ute isn’t too hard to link visually to prior El Caminos(especially the ’80s ones with custom Monte Carlo SS front clips). The risk of a crippling credibility gap seems much lower than with the GTO.

First off, selling the Ute as a Pontiac isn’t right. Nothing too complex about that.

I thought that the whole purpose of making all these platforms and parts global was so you could more easily adjust when and where and how much production could be done at each plant.

As for Holden Australia, well…they’ve been getting beat down by Toyota in a bad way. Holden has sold 136,216 cars thus far. By comparison, the Japanese giant has sold 216,034! And it seems that every month, I hear about how Holden, Ford, Toyota and Mitsu keep suggesting that Australia is too small a market to build vehicles especially for it, and that production may move elsewhere. I’m not sure, but it seems like the Aussies leaned on GM a bit.

Thirdly, the Alpha platform should be going to Pontiac…somehow. The next G6, with sedan, coupe and convertible body styles would be my choice. Base 4-cylinder, with optional 3.6L V-6 and…can they fit a V-8 in there? A line-up of Solstice (with coupe), G6 and G8 would fit the new, lower-volume higher-profit all-rear-drive strategy I thought Pontiac was to follow.

Cadillac should get Alpha for the BLS, so they can finally move the CTS up where it belongs closer to $40K. “5-Series for 3-Series price” isn’t needed here, BUT…it definitely won’t work in Europe. They aren’t into the supersizing, Big Gulping culture as much as we are. I’ve always found that reasoning silly.