http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases/View?id=TYT2006120187861

From Toyota’s November sales:

The Camry Hybrid sold 3100 units, the Prius sold 8008 units, Highlander Hybrid had sales of 1667 units, and RX Hybrid sales were 1327.

I provided Camry and Prius numbers just as perspective. The Highlander and RX hybrids are the most expensive Toyota hybrids (not including the limited production GS450h).

While their sales are not a huge percentage of overall model sales, they do make up a sizable percentage.

Overall year-to-date hybrid sales for the industry continue to go up, and as next generation systems come out and economies of scale drive prices down, hybrids will only get more popular.

Are they making up a significant percentage of sales? Are they growing in popularity? Are they moving faster than regular powered Toyota CUV’s?

If the answers are to the postive, then one could say that the Enclave (and indeed all competing SUV’s) is indeed at a competitive disadvantage. If not, then GM should not squander its limted R&D budget on another niche.

Is Toyota going to Hybrid the RAV?

Forgive me for not conceding that Enclave is not ‘class leading’ only because the new MDX has 8% more power from a 3% larger engine that requires premium fuel and uses 8% more of it, even though it weighs 300 pounds less.

Not saying I doubt you, but I will believe it when I see it. IF GM updates the 275HP V6 to a 320HP DI V6, *and* adds the Ultra V8 as an option, then , powertrain-wise at least, the Enclave will be very competitive even with next-gen competition. Of course, there is the little wee issue of hybrids, and how Toyota already has both RX and Highlander hybrids on the roads.

Forgive me for not making my points any more blatantly obvious in that HP is just ONE area where the Enclave is not class leading.

If you truly, strongly believe that the Enclave IS class leading, then the onus is on you to prove why you think that way.

What’s with the highway stats? EPA estimates are well out of whack to start with. These are the most optimistic of the optimistic.

I know you feel compelled to defend GM against TTAC’s naysayers, and you often raise excellent points and important perspectives. But it might be a good idea to choose your battles a bit more carefully.

Rivet-counting is not the way forward.

Corsa will be good for 40+mpg hwy
Astra base manual will do 35+mpg hwy

Outlook 2-mode should easily make 30 mpg hwy

Don’t forget that there’s alot more competition in Europe. Renault, Peugeot, Fiat, Alfa. Not to mention all the Japanese brands. And most cars are WAY smaller than most of the small cars here.

I’m not sure they are really waiting for yet another luxury car. In the USA, a “luxury” car has to has to have a HUGE engine (I’ve never understood that). In Europe, engines are rather modest. For example I rented an Audi A4 wagon in Germany, it had a 2 litre or so non-turbo engine in it. They are not even sold here. Could the europeans believe that “American” cars equal too large gas hogs?

2. GM may have never said the BLS was a “savior,” but GM Car Czar Bob Lutz did publicly threaten to bring it stateside. That he’d even contemplate such a thing is… awesome. Who’s in charge of product at GM and WTF are they thinking?

That would be Bob Lutz, what he’s thinking is pretty much all over the place, isn’t it? :-)

There’s potential for brand differentiation here.

Pontiac is positioned as a performance brand (insert snicker here).

Saturn is stylistically becoming VWish and is apparently GM’s (late) hedge on hybrid products.
Green Line Vues and Auras are planned. A hybrid Outlook would be an impressively practical and stylish people mover. Taken as a whole, a green Saturn would aim for stylistically and technologically sophisticated image.
Corsa: 35 mpg hwy
Aura GL: 35 mpg hwy
Vue GL: 32 mpg hwy
Outlook GL: 30 mpg hwy?
Vue 2 mode GL: 30 mpg city?

So the Enclave is getting the 5.3L too? Funny, I thought the Lucerne was getting that, and the Enclave would get the rumoured “Ultra V8″.

1) Yes, really. But not at launch. Take a look under the hood of the new CTS at Detroit in January.

2) Maybe, it fits.

Forgive me for not conceding that Enclave is not ‘class leading’ only because the new MDX has 8% more power from a 3% larger engine that requires premium fuel and uses 8% more of it, even though it weighs 300 pounds less.

Bring the best of GM Europe into the US with Saturn badges and the Saturn dealer experience and call it a day. Don’t spend anything Saturnizing the products or making them in the US. At least then there would be a reason for Saturn to exist. For the most part the Saturn effort has been a huge wasted effort which never accomplished the from-the-inside-out remaking of GM which it was originally envisioned to do.

Building the Poltiac Solstice and the Saturn Sky was a big mistake. Make one great car and sell the ____ out of it!

GM’s core problem is that it’s a bloated bureaucracy that can’t adapt anymore. It no longer excels at anything positive except for making Corvettes (a look at why this is so might be a good counterpoint to the death watches; my guess is its the exception that somehow proves the rule) and lobbying Washington.

The difference between Saturn and Pontiac is mostly consumer perception, and a very different dealer network.

Very few consumers knew that Saturn was a part of GM. In many ways it was not. It was almost stand-alone. The cars were different, there was no badge engineering, they had their own powertrains, they had a single point dealer network (there were no Saturn-Chevy multipoints for example), and they preached a new way of buying and servicing cars. Saturn was the ‘import fighter’ for GM.

While much has changed over the last few years (Saturn is now fairly ‘integrated’) it is still ‘a different kind of car company’. They have a great dealer reputation, both for sales satisfaction and service practices. Which is why they have a loyal customer base that would not just buy a Chev or Pontiac if Saturn folded.

Saturn simply has the best chance of attracting import-intenders (or defectors) to GM. Not Pontiac. Not Buick. Not Chevrolet.

Aligning Opel with Saturn makes sense (Opel-West as the Capt says). Saturn has always stood for small, quirky, endearing cars. Opels will fit right in as if they were always part of the family. The Astra and Corsa will make better Saturns than Pontiacs.

Saturn’s dealer network is also much healthier than other GM brands. There are only about 450 dealers, so no pruning of the dead wood is neccessary (unlike Pontiac). And the dealers do not cut each others throats; one-price helps, but they are also spread out (ala Lexus) and rarely compete in the same market.

Outlook excepted (which is decidely un-Opel and un-European), the new Saturn does not appear have significant ‘overlap’ with other GM products. Yes, the underpinnings are global GM (Epsilon, Delta, Theta, Lambda, etc), but the flavor seems distinctly ‘Saturn/Opel’.

RF: you of all people appear to appreciate branding, and Saturn has it.

On Kirk…I agree with jrhmobile and Sherborn Sean. I can’t prove the point, but the whole thing smells of petulance. Which does not mean York was wrong in his prescriptions for GM, but it does suggest that GM is better off without Kirk than it was with them. The short interval between the departures of York and Kirk also seems wrong since York had fiduciary responsibilities to all shareholders. And I write this as someone who thinks GM’s management has been poor for decades.

Stick a fork in the plastic panels, it’s over, Johnny. Saturn, as a brand, for better or worse, is going to carry Opel’s design direction and driving character from Europe to North America. You are correct that the dealer experience defined/defines Saturn as a brand; other than the plastic panels, the product had NO distinctive features whatsoever. Now you have Aura, a reskinned Malibu, but carrying the new design theme. The next Aura is expected to be identical to the new Vectra. Then you have Sky (which started life as the concept for the Gen2 Opel Speedster), Antara, which will be Opel as well as replacements for Vue and Equinox, and late next year, the Astra as replacement for the Ion. That’s a pretty well defined and clear product plan aimed at focusing Saturn as Opel-west. Pontiac, on the other hand, will get the new RWD platform cars, and seems to be positioning itself as big, American performance. Would be nice to snap your fingers and have it all done tomorrow…

And, regarding Wagoner’s decision making and truth-telling characteristics, i guess i didn’t realize you had a seat on GM’s automotive strategy board. I’ve read your references regarding an alleged “deep throat” feeding you information, and hey, maybe you are getting the truth and they are all a bunch of lying liars, and the whole house of cards is going to come down tomorrow in the second coming of Enron, but maybe some disgruntled executive who blew their shot at VP has your ear….I just don’t know.

And, I KNOW you aren’t naive, so you are well aware that “all” CEO’s usually “seem to be doing an excellent job” two months into their tenure.

Leaders– not politicians– put their balls on the line. They make a commitment and they move Heaven and Earth to keep it. Mulally has set a 2009 deadline for Ford. Good for him. Wagoner is a coward and a weasel. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

Wagoner is part of GM’s compromise, no confrontation culture. That’s why they’re in this situation – so many potential minefields – so little time.

I’m glad you mentioned Delphi in your main piece. News about Delphi/GM seems to have evaporated. After bankruptcy (last year?), Delphi’s CEO was dropping harsh quotes about the need to restructure union deals and how the whole domestic car industry was on borrowed time. Lately, things have been eerily quite. The calm before the storm?

Another potential cat 5 storm is the UAW deal to be hashed out next fall. Nothing like news of Jobs Banks and gold-bricked pensions with near free health care to get the sympathy of the average Honda/Toyota/Nissan driver.

Then again, there’s a new Dem congress. If Wagoner and the UAW hang on long enough, there may be a bailout in the future, courtesy the rest of u$.

And as usual, good points Robert.

As for whether or not Wagoner “cares” about TTAC’s opinion is irrelevant … I’m sure Wagoner cares about the stockholders and whether or not GM will go under. Simply put, Wagoner doesn’t have the will to make the radical changes necessary for a leaner meaner GM in the future. Mulally seems to have what it takes, although it’s too early to say for sure. Mulally did make waves at Boeing though.

Captain Tungsten:

Selling Astras as Saturns (which is a bit of a mischaracterization) is NOT OK because they overlap other GM products and they have nothing to do with or say about Saturn as a brand. While you could argue that no-haggle pricing defines Saturn, the brand's plastic panelled cars gave the company the product USP it needed. What's the fundamental difference between Saturn and Pontiac? Anyone?

And Rabid Rick is not a coward and a weasel because I say so, or because he doesn't listen to me (God forbid). The shoes fit because he refuses to A) make really tough decisions and B) tell the plain unvarnished truth.

Please don't give me moral relativism and tell me what "all" CEO's do. Ford's new go-to guy seems to be doing an excellent job in both the courage and honesty departments.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe Lutz threatened to bring the next generation BLS stateside. Assuming there will actually be a next generation, I’d be interested to see how far GM goes to differentiate BLS v2.0 from its platform mates.

Mark

Not every review is rosy….

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061124/FREE/61120022/1006/FREE

Frankly, I haven’t seen a mainstream mag slag a car like this in a long time….

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articlehybrid.aspx?storyID=urn:newsml:reuters.com:20061208:MTFH44855_2006-12-08_00-00-09_N07282696&type=comktNews&rpc=44

If they price it right, they will sell boatloads (literally) of them. Finally make that weak dollar work for the U.S. manufacturers.

And Wagoner is neither a coward nor a weasel, he just doesn’t care what you think.

Let's be clear about a few things.

1. GM did not have to build the BLS. No one asked them to. Plenty of people told them not to. And, as the article says, Trollhatten is now making just 1500 BLS a year, after a prediction of 20k per year. A complete and utter waste of GM's precious resources– that continues with Schubert and God knows who else getting paid how much for doing what with this dog that won't hunt.

2. GM may have never said the BLS was a "savior," but GM Car Czar Bob Lutz did publicly threaten to bring it stateside. That he'd even contemplate such a thing is… awesome. Who's in charge of product at GM and WTF are they thinking?

3. Although the volumes are bigger and the halo shinier, you could make the point that the Saturn Sky is another BLS: a distraction that has nothing whatsoever with its brand's core values. And the SSR. And so on, and so on.

4. The BLS is a perfect if microcosmic example of GM's main problem: squandering it resources, usually on crap. Back when GM bought Saab, Jerry Flint asked what Cadillac could a, should a, would a done with the money. The BLS is the punchline to a joke no one wanted to make.

5. Leaders– not politicians– put their balls on the line. They make a commitment and they move Heaven and Earth to keep it. Mulally has set a 2009 deadline for Ford. Good for him. Wagoner is a coward and a weasel. And I mean that in the nicest possible way.

As far as journalist wanna-be goes, I doubt the writers here would want to work at a monthly car mag. Too confining, since every review has to be rosy, for fear the advertisers will go away.

It doesn’t sound like GM ever put much hope in this car…if they only want 7,000 a year made. Seems low for a GM branded car…even for a cadillac. However, since cadillacs have a fairly lofty standard amongst themselves, releasing anything that’s not top notch to consumers (as opposed to TTAC) seems uncharacteristic.

Kinda like the Escalade EXT (the truck).