1.) Panther cars collectively are the ‘ultimate driving machines’.

That’s a bit of an overstatement. Yes people on this board, as well as every other general car oriented board that I have frequented, typically trumpet the value of Crown Vics, but I don’t recall reading any posts touting them as the ultimate driving machine (other than possibly one person on another board that i used to frequent).

2.) FWD = FAIL wheel drive. Further, those that drive FWD suck at life.

I really don’t see that in the postings here, particularly the second part. There are those that prefer rear wheel drive, though, and they have every right to feel that way and voice their opinions.

3.) The Camry, especially the latest model, is an abomination.

While I wouldn’t put it quite like that, the Camry redesign is p— poor IMHO. But, as they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

4.) The redesigned Accord is an unmitigated disaster.

Eh. (Shrugs shoulders.)

5.) Wagons rule, CUVs drool.

Wagons do get an unfair rap given that they are typically the best solution for the average family out there.

6.) New car purchases are for fools.

Maybe not for fools, but a used car purchase is more economical than a new car purchase. I think that the people who recommend used car purchases, wouldn’t use the term fool for those who buy a new car. The last two cars that I bought were both new. I just wanted a new car, and I could afford it. I do plan on buying used again from here on out though.

RWD is a niche but some on this forum do seem to think that it is a magic bullet for Detroit’s problems.

The most consistent fallacy that I see people make in their opinions is to assume that their tastes and preferences are either universal truths or at least mirrors that of the general population.

I know…really, it was intended as a joke – nothing personal, not an attack on anyone. It was misconstrued as something more, but oh well.

Certainly, some ideas, like Panther-love, seem to be decently common, as it has stood out in a number of comments sections, with little to the contrary.

“I think FWD-hate is so 1996…”

Definitely quote worthy!

By the way, I think the Crown Vic is kinda lame (seriously, V8 with 240 HP…), I think FWD-hate is so 1996, wagons offer less than minivans but at more cost, the new Accord Sedan is awesome in its own generic way, and, well, yeah, new car purchases are for fools.

Donald Petersen was the guy who led Ford’s recovery in the first generation Taurus timeframe, and he was later run out of town for disagreeing with the nomination of certain Ford family members to the Board of Directors. He was probably the last really great leader Ford has had, current management included.

I suspect that the engineers, designers and project managers from the original Taurus are probably gone as well given the decades of turmoil, early retirements and layoffs at Ford.

The point is, the talent referred to may well NOT be there any more.

That wasn’t meant as a flame at all…just strictly some observations I’ve made after reading many (way too many, according to my wife) comments. The Panthers are quite respected among many posters, which for some of their attributes, I can understand why. Large, RWD, roomy, and surprisingly decent fuel economy along with a smooth ride. I can see how many highway commuters would appreciate these qualities. For me, I’ve just never been too keen on the styling, nor the interiors, but that’s just me. I just don’t think I’ve ever come across more unchecked love for those things – I really had no idea they had quite that much of a following. Looks like Ford is going to loose quite a few potential buyers with the Vic gone.

I also happen to be the guy who slows down (for sometimes in excess of 10 miles) on the highway for a white Crown Vic/Grand Marquis behind me in the distance, only to find out that it’s just a “civilian” car.

Wagons do seem to be quite popular amongst many posters, and this is probably the one point that I agree with – if only there were more mainstream wagon choices without having to lay down serious cash for a ‘upscale’ brand.

Being more mindful of the reader-to-poster ratio, I guess I should have said that from my (very unscientific) observations, it would seem that many TTAC poster’s (less than 2% of TTAC readers) believe…

Macca :

Your comment (and moawdtsi's) is very close to flaming, which is strictly verboten. But I'll leave them both, and point out that…

1. Many TTAC commentators do NOT share these sentiments

2. Less than two percent of people who visit TTAC EVER comment.

Do not mistake our resident squeaky wheels for a homogeneous group.

1.) Panther cars collectively are the ‘ultimate driving machines’.
2.) FWD = FAIL wheel drive. Further, those that drive FWD suck at life.
3.) The Camry, especially the latest model, is an abomination.
4.) The redesigned Accord is an unmitigated disaster.
5.) Wagons rule, CUVs drool.
6.) New car purchases are for fools.

Now that’s not to say that I’m not in agreement with any of these statements, it’s just my observation.

Personally I don’t really get the fascination with the Panthers. Such a love affair smacks of ‘lowered expectations’ to me.

And if Ford has taught us nothing else over the past several decades, it is at least a stunning display of how not to run a car company.

Sorry you tried too hard.

I just found an European Mondeo 2.3L review and correct me if I’m wrong. The author ( a seasoned auto journalist) hinted S-Max there are stealing the meat from German brands.

Yes. THEY SHOULD PROVIDE THE BEST PRODUCTS HERE.

link: http://www.autosavant.net/2007/12/new-ford-mondeo-23-liter.html

We all know the history since then. All water under the bridge now, can’t undo the past mistakes. Although there are differences today the answer is still the same – Ford needs a blockbuster revolutionary product.

As an ex-owner of the original gen 1 Taurus I hold a soft spot for Ford. At the time – late 80’s – it was a winner. It could compete with the Camry and Accord everywhere except quality (although I put 200k miles on mine with only minor maintenance) and it was far ahead of anything GM or Chrysler were offering at the time. Then they introduced the SHO model which was well ahead of its time as well, IMO. I didn’t consider the competition until the mid-90’s.

Point is, the talent and ability is there. They just need to use it. I’d buy a Ford if they came out with this generations Taurus.

The same thing could be said about the original Mustang versus the Falcon, and the original Honda CR-V versus the old Civic “tall roof” wagon. I don’t think anyone is going to argue with the sales success of the Mustang and CR-V.

Looks and image still matter with vehicles, and the Flex looks more upscale and unique to me than the Taurus X. Also remember that the mechanicals of the Taurus X are solid, so there is still plenty of steak here…the Flex will give it some much needed sizzle.

The Flex is merely a squarer & wider Taurus X built on the same platform – the interior layout is virtually identical, and thus there is nothing unique about its functionality. Ford didn’t have the funds to put sliding doors on the Flex which would have differentiated it somewhat.

Power sliding doors and more interior space for less money are just a few of the reasons why us minivan owners are going to stay that way.

those are fair assessments, now try driving a Lexus luxobarge in anything but a straight line (with the suspension in comfort mode… no cheating).

His latest column is titled Mistakes People Make and he nails Ford but good for it’s latest pronouncement from on high, that Ford is going to have a global “design language” so that Fords look the same everywhere. Talk about a bad idea. Have a look:

http://www.forbes.com/business/forbes/2007/1224/054.html

Ford NA=F150 and its offspring.

Our company fleet cars are Taurus (old Ford not new Volvoplatform ) and a few Crown Vics. I don’t care what you Ford fan boys say. These cars are only good if you drive in a straight and smooth road!!!

An electric Focus that was cheaper then the Tesla and faster with more range… That would sell.

Here’s your miracle battery all ready to go:

http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=546&ResLibraryID=22794&Category=987

Motor, controller, charger, and a pack of those batteries. Just use the existing vehicle line up and offer every current model as an electric. That will annihilate the competition as suddenly they now have nothing!

I mean, if you allow me, I’ll give you a little interesting tidbit from Brazil. Ford was happy and content as the 3rd largest maker in Brazil with a market share in a closed market of about 20 to 25% (with our closed market, this was the norm for maybe 40 yrs, VW had between 40 and 50% and GM around 30 to 35%). But, there came along a persistent little bugger in the name of Fiat, who started out here in the late 70s and early 80s.

Little by little (in an interesting parallel to the US market) the Italians (similar to the transplants there) increase market share by building, wait for it, more reliable , better-looking, economical, smaller, in a word a better product. Their market share slowly rises, 20-odd ears later, guess what? They (the transplants – Fiat) are the leaders! (with around 28%, VW 25%, GM 20% , Ford 10% and others under 4%).

Last week, Ford launches the new Ka. Starting at about USD12 000, for no AC, no power steering, no electric windows it is nonetheless price-competitive. However, Ford has set about re-inventing the wheel. You see, in Brazil, when a new model is launched, the old one is usually kept in production. This allows the car maker to keep volume up because they have an older car to compete on price, but they also have the “new” model that because of the new sheetmetal will command higher price and more profits. Not only did Ford not keep the “old” Ka (good maybe for image, but bad business practice, regardless) they have targeted it squarely at the Chevy Celta! What’s wrong with that you say? Well the Celta is only the 4th best sold car in Brazil! Since all these cars are basically the same size and market segment, shouldn’t Ford have aimed the new car against the VW Gol, Fiat Palio and Fiat Mille (1st, 2nd and 3rd) respectively if their target is to increase market share to the point of becoming a really massive car producer in Brazil again? How are you going to increase market share if your aiming to beat the 4th best?

I like Ford. Have had 3 of their cars. Own one now (though it has been the most dissapointing car I’ve ever had). But, like most of you, I don’t get them. I don’t think they get it either. Let’s see then how the future pans out since it would be truly sorry to see a company that has introduced so many great cars fall into the black hole of oblivion.

Oh…Wait….

After nearly three decades of development the Ford Panther platform should be the most reliable on earth, notwithstanding Ford value engineering designed to rob owners of every iota of value

North Americans are not looking for BMW 7-Class performance, and won’t pay for it anyway. New front and rear clips and a revised dashboard would set the Panther up for another 30 successful years.

Depending on how this concept is executed in production form and marketed—I think it has the ability to trump the minivan in a differentiated way vs. the larger CUV’s (or should I say SUV’s)….differentiated style + unique functionality. I will be anxious to get a closer view when I head to Detroit for the NAIAS. Also, I think Mr Farago has given the Flex idea an inital “thumbs-up” as a vehicle to watch in ‘08.

Seeing as Ford is lacking in the small car area, Ford should consider letting Mercury sell a badge-engineered Mazda 3 as a new small Mercury.

A badge-engineered Mazda 5 selling as a Mercury would add some sales volume, too.

The Focus can continue as is until Ford comes up with a replacement.

Let’s give Jill something worthwhile to hype.

Ok, new models may arrive in 2-5 years, but based on Ford’s past history… Still even if those models maintain or increase the volumes Ford is seeing in those segments now, I doubt they will offset the decline in volume, much less profit, of F-series trucks.