1. Image
99. Everything else

“Quite honestly, I am completely confused as to why you think all buyers think the same way.”

Once the Prius became a top-20 car, it is beyond reason to continue to claim that it’s selling simply or even primarily because of image. The numbers are large enough that it’s ridiculous to claim that there’s such a substantial difference, now, between Prius drivers and, say, Camry drivers. There simply isn’t.

While I appreciate your later comments as more rational than the original post, surely it’s clear you’re backing away from an unsupportable position that many of the troglodytes still hold? Throw red meat to the animals and then wash your hands kind of thing?

Again, Occam’s Razor suggests that the simpler explanation is right more often than the more complicated one, absent strong evidence either way. We have a simple theory on the table that isn’t contradicted: the Prius is bigger than the other hybrids, much more useful, and gets better mileage. Your theory, on the contrary, dies as soon as you look at the (old) Insight. QED.

Didn’t look like it from here.

Oh seriously, come on. I think it’s really deeply unfair to respond to my claim that he’s putting words in my mouth and then paraphrase what he was saying in the first place.

And if you read his posts, it was clear that I never said much of what he was suggesting. I never said hybrid cars are a fad. I also never said that they sell exclusively because of a green halo.

M1EK:
That’s _possible_ but if the green halo was THAT strong, the Insight would have sold far better than it did.

Much MORE likely is what I and everybody else keep telling you: there are some objective reasons for buying the Prius over the CH that have nothing to do with the green halo and that are common metrics people use for deciding between ANY two cars.

Yes, I agree with you. Quite honestly, I am completely confused as to why you think all buyers think the same way.

My initial claim is that green image is a necessary component in making a hybrid car a sales success. Or, as I said in the post originally, “It looks unique, and that carries the image that’s so critical in the hybrid market.”

There are many necessary elements in a hybrid car being a success:
1. Function as a car
2. Price
3. MPG
4. Image

I said “You have to have green image to be able to sell a hybrid successfully (i.e. on a large scale).” You said “No, people buy cars for many different reasons.” These aren’t mutually exclusive. All I am saying is that without the image component, it’s much harder to sell a hybrid car to large numbers of people in the U.S.

With that flip remark you just guaranteed one less reader of any posting under your byline.

It wasn’t flip at all. I think it’s a fair point to say car marketing and sales are way too complex to summarize with a single “simplest theory fits” method of analysis.

Still, if you choose not to read anything I write again, you’ll probably find yourself in good company. If not good, then plentiful.

It does sound quite funny in the abstract: “I refuse to read anything that moron writes – he doesn’t even think Occam’s Razor applies to cars!”

With that flip remark you just guaranteed one less reader of any posting under your byline.

And there’s plenty of big-ass pickups in the parking lot that come in with one person aboard and otherwise rattling along empty. They use two gallons of gas to do a trip that the Prius will do with about two to three quarts. What was your point?

I’d ride the bus, if the bus service was halfway decent. I’d bike more often if there was a reasonably safe way to do it when both the in and out might be in the dark (something of a concern here in MN).

But the fact is, if you’d like to reduce oil consumption, for whatever reason, choosing a Prius or an Insight over a lot of other things is certainly a convenient way to do it and just about painless and some things just aren’t very practical unless you intend to become a hermit.

It has some styling cues from the Hydrogen Clarity sedan. Wonder if it has the old CRX back hatch double-window treatment?

Considering how many recent Honda’s and Acura’s have not done it for me on styling, this one does work. Kudos to Honda. Now they will have this and the Fit to duke it out in the marketplace. Next year will be interesting between Detroit and others!

Most Prii I see around have a single person in them.

Also, regarding my above post: You can buy midsize beaters for not much more, if any, than a subcompact.

It looks unique, and that carries the image that’s so critical in the hybrid market.

I do not think it was unreasonable of me to paraphrase this as “green halo” or ‘fad’ argument. It’s just a slightly nicer version of the same exact language used by GM for the last few years.

In any case, I find most Prius owners use them as posermobiles to show they are “Green” or “save money” (yep, spending $25k to save $2/gallon on gas is more efficient than buying a subcompact beater at $2k, and paying occasional maintenance costs).

Now that the oil bubble has finally burst, and the pressure to “do something quick” is off, Honda and other companies should let these abominations die and get back to the business of developing real technologies for the future.

[M1EK disagrees with the importance of the look and the impact of image on buying a Prius...]

Justin Berkowitz: “You’re putting other people’s words in my mouth.”

Didn’t look like it from here.

I like the Prius (and will likely get one) because of the interior room, the cargo space, the general quality of the vehicle and the outstanding fuel economy (gas is cheap today but I expect it to be expensive tomorrow) and reasonable price (they start at just a bit more than a stripped Camry or Malibu).

Now, if someone could figure out how to fit all that into a shape resembling the Chevy Malibu, Ford Fusion, VW Beetle or Freightliner, I’d look at it and consider buying it on the merits, just like the Prius.

And, like M1EK, the people that I know who bought one bought the car on its totally practical merits. “I can fit all this crap into it and still get 46mpg? Sold.” Well… “And it’s a Toyota? Sold.”

Toyota reported back in ‘02 or so that they were able to sell the car for more than unit cost. Toyota is able to sell the Yaris, which is not a bad little car at all, for as little as $10,500. It is not at all unrealistic to think they can profitably sell the Prius at $22,000… unless you intend to assert that Toyota is selling the Yaris and all its other small cars at a loss.

If Toyota can do it… so can Honda. So could GM, for the matter of that.

Yup. Honda, like GM, flubbed the demographics. By and large, hybrid buyers don’t care about handling (Civic), power (Accord) or towing capacity (GMT900). Classic “we know better than the customers” syndrome.

looking at the new insight brought to mind the short-lived russian space shuttle program, called “buran” if i’m not mistaken. it looked an awful lot like the u.s. shuttle orbiter, to the point that some thought they’d stolen the plans and built their own. actually, our shuttle was made about as well as it could have been given the existing technology at the time it was designed. therefore, anything that would function on a par with it in terms of aerodynamics, dimensions, etc, would probably have to look an awful lot like it did, as was the case with the russian shuttle. maybe toyota designed a hybrid that could function just about as well as could be made with the existing technology, and so any competitor with any hopes of success would happen to design something coincidentally that looked remarkably similar. no other hybrids have had any(where near) the success of prius.

anyway, just my 2 cents.

Since my family still owns a ‘92 Astro and I have often been at the wheel, I want to make it clear that the Astro/Safari is NOT a minivan but a van. There is a very large difference, apart from the FWD/RWD aspect. The Astro is basically a truck while minivans are cars.

I’ve had to explain this to many, many guys who accused me of piloting a minivan. But when they saw what I could do with it (RWD manuevering/configuring the rear bench seats/loading massive amounts of cargo) the doubt immediately disappears. The Astro is an awesome vehicle, at least until you visit the pump.

Huh?! The original Insight weighed less than 1850 lbs. The electric motor was thin and light and the battery pack was well under 100lbs.

How those numbers could translate to “hefty pig” mystifies me. The car certainly wasn’t fast, but it had nothing to do with weight.

You’re putting other people’s words in my mouth. If you re-read the post and my replies in this thread, you’ll find that I never said many of the things you disagree with.

That’s _possible_ but if the green halo was THAT strong, the Insight would have sold far better than it did.

Much MORE likely is what I and everybody else keep telling you: there are some objective reasons for buying the Prius over the CH that have nothing to do with the green halo and that are common metrics people use for deciding between ANY two cars.