But the issue that bugs me the most is not 35 by 2020, but the idiocy of E85 and all that surrounds it. Is there not one person in power in the US that cares about this bill enough to actually research it before signing it?

Congress, please get your act together and revive this!

Here’s where the 1.2 MPG comes from: the maximum E85 credit for a manufacturer’s total fleet is 1.2 MPG.

So, if GM made nothing but E85 Tahoes, their benefit would still only be 1.2 MPG.

See section 32906 of the new energy bill.

Again, this will last only till 2014 and gets gradually phased out by 2020 (unless it’s extended by a future act of congress).

With all of the smiling sycophants in Washington, is there not 1 engineer that can point out the stupidity of CAFE… where are the news networks?? Matt Lauer, where are you?? Maybe you’re too fixated on the Jennifer Love Hewitt ass-gate.

I want to believe it will work, but the facts don’t support that. Even worse, the $25b being doled out is nothing but sickening. Want to help encourage efficient car buying habits? How about taking the $25b and offering incentives to any car buyer who buys a vehicle with 30+ mpg?

–Also, I’ve read elsewhere, that the E85 vehicles get a 1.2 MPG credit. How does that square with counting a Chevy Tahoe as 40 MPG?–

“An AFV that uses E85 gets its fuel economy boosted by dividing by 0.15 (or multiplying by 6.67). So an AFV that gets real world 20 mpg is calculated at 133 mpg. But the Government recognizes that E85 would only be used about 50% of the time (actually it is less than 1% of the time), so they average gasoline fuel economy with alternative motor fuel, fuel economy to get an average. Engines burning E85 do emit about 20% less CO2 per mile but have the same emission air pollution rating. E85 is also higher octane which allows it to be used where premium fuel would be required. See http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm for 2007 models and fuel economy.
Here is an example. GM sold about 636,000 Chevrolet Silverado pickup trucks in 2006. The standard Silverado is rated at 17 mpg city and 21 mpg highway with standard gas. With E85 the numbers are about 25% worse since ethanol does not contain as much energy as gasoline per gallon. However, when the real E85 fuel economy is divided by 0.15 the alternative fuel economy for CAFE calculations is 85 mpg/105 mpg. In the final calculation for half and half use, the composite fuel economy comes out as 31 mpg versus 18.6 mpg for a straight gasoline truck.”

http://ecovelectric.blogspot.com/2007/04/ethanol-sham-alternative-fuel-vehicles.html

Board On Energy and Environmental Systems (2002). “Effectiveness and Impact of Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) Standards (2002)”. The National Academies. Retrieved on March 9, 2007.

and just for fun: http://fastlane.gmblogs.com/archives/2007/06/update_a_grand.html

In the new law the E85 credit will be phased out by 2020, starting from 2014, so that loophole goes away.

Also, I’ve read elsewhere, that the E85 vehicles get a 1.2 MPG credit. How does that square with counting a Chevy Tahoe as 40 MPG?

There most certainly IS a loophole. Still think it’s a landmark piece of legislation? I know I do.

You’ve got it all wrong.

There will be a fleet-wide average of 35 MPG, including all cars, SUVs and pickup trucks.
There’s no loophole.

Pickup trucks will be allowed to have lower mileage (how much is to be determined), but that must be compensated for by cars that get higher mileage.
One manufacturer can have lower mileage, but there must be compensation from another manufacturer.

Seems difficult to organize, but that’s the new law.

I’m with carguy and mikey610 and probably a whole lot of others on this one. It’s just bad legislation any way you slice it. Mikey610 points out that even if people did have 35 MPG cars (instead of 20 MPG ones) there is no guarantee of energy savings. Check out the Jevons Paradox in the Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jevons_paradox

What’s the problem?
The overall average will need to be 35 MPG. If too many trucks are sold, the government will by law have to do something to counteract that.

Consumption-based taxes would likely work much better, but if Big Oil can’t afford to even give up tax breaks as evidenced by the horse-trading for this Energy Bill, I don’t have much hope that they would sit still and let a $0.50 gas tax through.

Too bad the renewable electricity provision was stripped. Of course in the future we would like to drive battery powered cars that get power from renewable electricity.
Taxing polluting oil production to help establish renewable electricity makes perfect sense to me.
Ah well, maybe when Hillary becomes president, we’ll get to this…

At least then the Pentagon might have the industrial capacity it needs to provide our overseas troops with the armored vehicles they need.