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	<title>Comments on: Elderly Drivers: It Pays to be a Playa</title>
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	<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/</link>
	<description>The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news.</description>
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		<title>By: cretinx</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/comment-page-1/#comment-100385</link>
		<dc:creator>cretinx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 15:07:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/#comment-100385</guid>
		<description>mandatory driver tests (real tests, not this turn on the car, make a left turn, do a k-turn, parallel park b.s. . . . . actually, some states don&#039;t even make you parallel park!) for the entire population in 3 year intervals

problem solved</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->mandatory driver tests (real tests, not this turn on the car, make a left turn, do a k-turn, parallel park b.s. . . . . actually, some states don&#8217;t even make you parallel park!) for the entire population in 3 year intervals</p>
<p>problem solved<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: NBK-Boston</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/comment-page-1/#comment-100311</link>
		<dc:creator>NBK-Boston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 18:05:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/#comment-100311</guid>
		<description>I wonder if the higher fatality rate among elderly driver is more a function of their driving poorly and getting into more accidents, or more a function of their being more frail and prone to injury when an accident occurs (but their tendency to actually get in crashes is unchanged).  If it is the former, a more aggressive governmental approach to weeding out drivers whose skills decline with age is called for, because they are potentially a danger to others as well as themselves.  If it is the latter, there is a stronger argument that the choice to drive (or ride as passenger) should be left to the individual -- the risk to his own life has increased, but he is not endangering others, so let him (and his family?) figure out what is best.  

Note that if the elderly are in fact more likely, as a group, to get into crashes, this does not mean that all old people are bad drivers, and become dangerous at the same rate.  It is likely just be a question of weeding out a few drivers whose skills have declined while leaving the rest alone.  Periodic sight, hearing and road skills tests (for all drivers, or all drivers above a certain age) would be a way to approach this problem.  For pilots, even private pilots flying small planes, the FAA requires rather frequent medical exams in order to remain current, which are fairly strict.  And while there has long been an age cap on airline pilot licensing, the safety justification that is usually proffered is largely regarded as a pretext, and it is understood that the real reason for the rule is to muster pilots out of the workforce at a predictable rate so that new pilots can find jobs (and to make sure that wage rates don&#039;t go too high with too much seniority).

To return to the original question, I think that the following statistics could help sort out the real story behind elderly driver fatality rates:

1.  Accidents per year per elderly driver, compared to drivers on average.
2.  Accidents per 100,000 miles driven per elderly driver, compared to drivers on average.
3.  Injuries and fatalities for passengers of elderly drivers, broken down by the age of the passenger.
4.  Injuries and fatalities for those in cars involved in a crash with a car driven by an elderly driver.

If elderly drivers tend to retain their skills but die more frequently because they are frail, then 1 and 2 should show no difference between elderly drivers and drivers at large.  If elderly drivers lose some skill, but compensate for it by driving less, then 1 should show no difference while 2 should show a difference, but in such a case we should conclude the people are reasonable and, on their own, countering increased accident risk with increased precautions over time.  Item 3 should reveal whether the accidents that elderly people get into are, in fact, unusually dangerous ones, or whether they are average or even less violent then normal (the increase in fatality thus due to frailty), and item 4 should inform our discussion regarding whether elderly drivers tend to pose a serious risk to others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I wonder if the higher fatality rate among elderly driver is more a function of their driving poorly and getting into more accidents, or more a function of their being more frail and prone to injury when an accident occurs (but their tendency to actually get in crashes is unchanged).  If it is the former, a more aggressive governmental approach to weeding out drivers whose skills decline with age is called for, because they are potentially a danger to others as well as themselves.  If it is the latter, there is a stronger argument that the choice to drive (or ride as passenger) should be left to the individual &#8212; the risk to his own life has increased, but he is not endangering others, so let him (and his family?) figure out what is best.  </p>
<p>Note that if the elderly are in fact more likely, as a group, to get into crashes, this does not mean that all old people are bad drivers, and become dangerous at the same rate.  It is likely just be a question of weeding out a few drivers whose skills have declined while leaving the rest alone.  Periodic sight, hearing and road skills tests (for all drivers, or all drivers above a certain age) would be a way to approach this problem.  For pilots, even private pilots flying small planes, the FAA requires rather frequent medical exams in order to remain current, which are fairly strict.  And while there has long been an age cap on airline pilot licensing, the safety justification that is usually proffered is largely regarded as a pretext, and it is understood that the real reason for the rule is to muster pilots out of the workforce at a predictable rate so that new pilots can find jobs (and to make sure that wage rates don&#8217;t go too high with too much seniority).</p>
<p>To return to the original question, I think that the following statistics could help sort out the real story behind elderly driver fatality rates:</p>
<p>1.  Accidents per year per elderly driver, compared to drivers on average.<br />
2.  Accidents per 100,000 miles driven per elderly driver, compared to drivers on average.<br />
3.  Injuries and fatalities for passengers of elderly drivers, broken down by the age of the passenger.<br />
4.  Injuries and fatalities for those in cars involved in a crash with a car driven by an elderly driver.</p>
<p>If elderly drivers tend to retain their skills but die more frequently because they are frail, then 1 and 2 should show no difference between elderly drivers and drivers at large.  If elderly drivers lose some skill, but compensate for it by driving less, then 1 should show no difference while 2 should show a difference, but in such a case we should conclude the people are reasonable and, on their own, countering increased accident risk with increased precautions over time.  Item 3 should reveal whether the accidents that elderly people get into are, in fact, unusually dangerous ones, or whether they are average or even less violent then normal (the increase in fatality thus due to frailty), and item 4 should inform our discussion regarding whether elderly drivers tend to pose a serious risk to others.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: gdudds03</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/comment-page-1/#comment-100298</link>
		<dc:creator>gdudds03</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:43:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/#comment-100298</guid>
		<description>Being a boomer myself and having had to take the keys from my mother, and soon my father and father-in-law, I am in favor of enforced physical, sight, hearing and mental testing, annually past the age of 65. This is one intervention of government I would go along with. It would have made my life much easier than being the bad guy key snatcher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Being a boomer myself and having had to take the keys from my mother, and soon my father and father-in-law, I am in favor of enforced physical, sight, hearing and mental testing, annually past the age of 65. This is one intervention of government I would go along with. It would have made my life much easier than being the bad guy key snatcher.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: David Holzman</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/comment-page-1/#comment-100261</link>
		<dc:creator>David Holzman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 01:46:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/#comment-100261</guid>
		<description>Agree with Logdog, above. I know a signficant number of people who are in their 80s--friends of my parents--who drive competently. People age at vastly different rates. 

I also think it would be good for society to figure out ways to make it easier for elderly drivers to keep driving. For example, perhaps when competence declines to a level where someone needs to drive more slowly than most people on the road, they could have a conspicuous &quot;O&quot; plate on the back of their car, so that other drivers wouild give them some slack. 

The driving issue--combined with the difficulty of getting around most places in the US on public transit--is the one thing that makes me think a self-driving car might be a good thing. And I hate the idea of self-driving cars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Agree with Logdog, above. I know a signficant number of people who are in their 80s&#8211;friends of my parents&#8211;who drive competently. People age at vastly different rates. </p>
<p>I also think it would be good for society to figure out ways to make it easier for elderly drivers to keep driving. For example, perhaps when competence declines to a level where someone needs to drive more slowly than most people on the road, they could have a conspicuous &#8220;O&#8221; plate on the back of their car, so that other drivers wouild give them some slack. </p>
<p>The driving issue&#8211;combined with the difficulty of getting around most places in the US on public transit&#8211;is the one thing that makes me think a self-driving car might be a good thing. And I hate the idea of self-driving cars.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Logdog</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/comment-page-1/#comment-100255</link>
		<dc:creator>Logdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/#comment-100255</guid>
		<description>Age should not be the only criteria for deciding whether or not a person should be allowed to drive. There are too many variable to make such a sweeping statement. Physical and mental fitness would be a much better measure. Beats me how you measure judgement. If one could, there would be far fewer drivers on the road. Of any age. A driving test at renewal would be an idea to pursue. 

People living in retirement homes in FL are most likely far different in many ways than those of us living in the Sierra and XC skiing the winter and mountain biking in the summer, at 70 plus. With a BMI of 25 or less.

Sweeping generalizations and stereotyping are really annoying.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Age should not be the only criteria for deciding whether or not a person should be allowed to drive. There are too many variable to make such a sweeping statement. Physical and mental fitness would be a much better measure. Beats me how you measure judgement. If one could, there would be far fewer drivers on the road. Of any age. A driving test at renewal would be an idea to pursue. </p>
<p>People living in retirement homes in FL are most likely far different in many ways than those of us living in the Sierra and XC skiing the winter and mountain biking in the summer, at 70 plus. With a BMI of 25 or less.</p>
<p>Sweeping generalizations and stereotyping are really annoying.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: quasimondo</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/comment-page-1/#comment-100246</link>
		<dc:creator>quasimondo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:45:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/#comment-100246</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve already vowed to myself that once I hit 70, I&#039;m putting the keys down.  I&#039;ll find a nice retirement home in Arizona that has everything within electric-cart distance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;ve already vowed to myself that once I hit 70, I&#8217;m putting the keys down.  I&#8217;ll find a nice retirement home in Arizona that has everything within electric-cart distance.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: dastanley</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/comment-page-1/#comment-100200</link>
		<dc:creator>dastanley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 17:52:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/#comment-100200</guid>
		<description>You can bet that when the baby boomers are in the elderly age group, because of their sheer numbers and voting power, they will have the driving laws changed in their favor in most states.  And while many boomers have been procrastinating saving for retirement, there will be enough that DID save and will make political contributions to help their cause.  

After spending time in Florida and Arizona and sharing the road with many elderly drivers, all I can say is look out!  Just like Seinfeld said, the old drivers keep getting smaller while their cars keep getting bigger.  But bless their hearts, I guess we&#039;ll all be that way someday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->You can bet that when the baby boomers are in the elderly age group, because of their sheer numbers and voting power, they will have the driving laws changed in their favor in most states.  And while many boomers have been procrastinating saving for retirement, there will be enough that DID save and will make political contributions to help their cause.  </p>
<p>After spending time in Florida and Arizona and sharing the road with many elderly drivers, all I can say is look out!  Just like Seinfeld said, the old drivers keep getting smaller while their cars keep getting bigger.  But bless their hearts, I guess we&#8217;ll all be that way someday.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: casper00</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/comment-page-1/#comment-100152</link>
		<dc:creator>casper00</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Jan 2008 04:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/news-blog/elderly-drivers-it-pays-to-be-a-playa/#comment-100152</guid>
		<description>This issue will surely come up again when the baby boomers are retired.....there must be a solution that will benefit everyone and keep all of use safe....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->This issue will surely come up again when the baby boomers are retired&#8230;..there must be a solution that will benefit everyone and keep all of use safe&#8230;.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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