http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aVXfypExIZ9M

…but when the government is proposing to loan $25 billion to the Detroit 3 automakers, it is suddenly imperative that the union be smashed and the executives starved?

Watch van and pick-up sales rise, new and used.

Also watch small travel trailer and camper shell/topper/whatever term used in thine area to increase.

Gym memberships, the basic low-cost type, will increase so folks have a place to clean up.

Dumpster diving will become a family activity.

Long-term low-cost parking firms may also benefit as folks seek places to park and sleep where the jack-booted thugs will not roust them.

Anything is better than being truly homeless… and living in a vehicle IS better than a homeless shelter or on the streets.

Whats scary is people just don’t get the consequences of these companies going down, if it needs complete change of managment to rectify and allow the loans to go through then fair enough, but they cannot be allowed to go under, under any circumstances.

It is obvious that all 3 ultimately have to compete with the best in the industry.

Why should Ford have tried to fix its business itself if a huge bailout was in the offing?

If Ford can’t compete against a lean GM, how on earth is supposed to compete with Honda & Toyota? Or is the assumption that there is a pool of nativists that will only buy from GM or Ford?

If Ford has to get government loans or go bankrupt to hope to compete against a unfucked GM then it has to do those things anyway if its to have any hope against Toyota, Honda, or Hyundai/Kia, because as the last 30 years have proven, even the nativists will bail given the right economic incentives.

Which is it?

Exactly, that is what confuses buyers when we talk about domestic content. The GM management line is we’re a ‘Global Corporation’ when they buy parts, but ‘American’ when selling cars.

Everyone knows North American Content means Canada, USA, Mexico, Jamaica, Honduras, etc. Therefor the only real difference between transplants and big 2.8 plants in the US is who gets the executive bonus’

We don’t agree at all.
The Big 3 have already failed.
The US government is also bankrupt.

The next bubble to burst will be the bubble of huge expensive government.

If the government gives the automakers 75 billion what difference will it make if nobody is buying their product?

golf4me

If you really work in the US auto industry it would be difficult to not be aware that the US auto companies buy a large percentage of raw materials, machinery & tooling from overseas.

Then we’ll know they’re serious about asking for help.

If $25b is already approved in loans for “green initiatives” at the Shrinking 3, what happens if it is suddenly Shrinking 2, or even 1? Are there provisions in the original loan that establish what happens to that cash if there is no viable corporate entity to loan it to? I know its just chump change for the antics currently consuming Capitol Hill, but man that’s a lot of coin in my realm!

I could see that money just turning into a pork-slush fund for connected Congressional folks, or helping Obama make a couple of the “green collar” jobs he wants so much. Any ideas on what that cash does if the original debtor ends up DOA?

golf4me mentioned another thing that is true.

Even when the Japanese and Europeans have factories in the US, some or many of the important components are NOT made in the US. I’ll just take the engine as example. Yes, they have engine factories over there, but…

When a car is assembled/made in Mexico by Ford or GM or Chrysler the situation is the same, but this time, the components come from the US, not Japan or Europe.

For the mass production levels of the US markets, I bet almost any automaker has a proper FACTORY, not just an assembly plant.

And yes, as he said, if nothing is done, you can easily become the Chinese’s biatch. You’re almost there with all the debt you have.

Ah, and it shouldn’t be a war between GM and America, it’s not a war at all.

How about a war between Daimler, Siemens, Bosch and VW against the German government. Nice right? What would be the consecuences in Germany of a say, Siemens collapse? or a VW/Audi collapse?…

Is this atypical? Or are these cars really and truly made in the US (not just assembled here.)

If Ford backs away now and changes their approach and communications immediately, citizens will realize that Ford is actually ahead on their product plan, can tap into their global vehicle portfolio for the states and has more cash…then they’ll respect them for not seeking welfare from those who will make future car purchases and influence others car purchase decisions.

Let the grossly overpaid execs and UAW sort out their own mess that they created. They are very fortunate to even have something called “Chapter 11″ as a tool to begin with. Let them use it.

The only, only, only sane reason I can surmise that Ford is even joining in on this bad private jet trip to Washington is their quest to quell the UAW jointly.

I’m with you – Mullaly seems to have a track record and has Ford at least going in the right direction. GM and Chrysler are adrift and their management has no clue what to do about it.

Farago: This would be a great standalone discussion topic.

That being said, I am still against a bailout before the UAW, CAFE, management (or lack thereof),and trade rule imbalance issues are rectified, or else it’s a poor investment. That means C11 and then a loan with equity and certain strings attached until the loan is paid off. Also, if the govt doesn’t grow some balls and tell the UAW to ease up a bit, then they might as well do nothing, and watch idly by while we become China’s beetch.