In the past, it was. The figure for class competitiveness is now 50mpg. Welcome to 2009.

Do we praise automakers for engine power that’s not class competitive?

quasimondo: “I bring up Toyota’s second efforts because unlike the Insight and Fusion Hybrid not one of Toyota’s non-Prius hybrids can reach 40-mpg.”

And? That’s Toyota’s second efforts. Everybody else’s first effort is comparable to Toyota’s second effort, at least as far as fuel economy goes. Toyota gives you a choice of vehicles with hybrid technology. You can get a conventional looking car that gets very good city fuel economy and pretty fair highway economy or you can get a 50mpg car.

In fact, Ford has bested the Camry, by a notable margin, for conventional car with hybrid drivetrain. Good job, Ford. But one wonders what Ford could do if they went all out. Unfortunately, they didn’t, so we don’t know what they could do. Too bad.

On the contrary. I think they can, and I think they’ve done a fine job. I bring up Toyota’s second efforts because unlike the Insight and Fusion Hybrid not one of Toyota’s non-Prius hybrids can reach 40-mpg. I bring this up because I think that despite using the same Hybrid Synergy Drive sytem and having a head start on development especially against Ford, this is appalling. This kind of effort coming from Toyota makes what they offer even more unacceptable than what Ford, Honda, or Volkswagen has brought to the table. I bring this up because to shame what these manufacturers have been able to do as a second rate effort unworthy of consideration is simply wrong and they deserve better than that.

I must be living in the past because last I checked, a vehicle that can manage 40MPG was simply phenomenal.

What makes you think they never can? Is that what this is about? That, like the dull child, they should be praised for picking out socks that match each other? I expect they’re smart enough to figure out that they didn’t match the leader.

What about Toyota’s second efforts? They spread the development costs around to other formats that don’t market as well to those who want a high-mpg car as the Prius does. And they get relatively low unit sales. No surprise and nobody looks at that because the focus is on what does sell.

And an excuse is not a justification.

Perhaps they should stick to what they now best: gas guzzling suv’s

What vehicle is that? Jetta TDI – 34/41 on diesel. Hardly worth shouting about. Fusion – 41/36, very impressive. Props to Ford. But 10-14mpg less and it’s an extra $4K and, inside, it’s a mid-size car, just like the Prius. Insight – 40/43, very impressive. But nearly the cost of a Prius, smaller and still 8-10mpg short.

How much recognition do you think they deserve? They don’t do nearly as well as the Prius on fuel economy and they don’t offer something significant (in the appliance sense – maybe the Jetta handles better when it’s not in the shop) in return.

“The Prius is a lucky stroke for Toyota and that anybody who buys one is doing so out of the image factor and nothing else.”

People who believe that are fools. Luck has little to do with the Prius. Determination, engineering, good cost control, good managmeent and good marketing made it a success. It’s a mid-size, mid-price car with excellent utility and fuel economy. If this is regarded as a lucky stroke, it’s only because people think a useful and practical vehicle is an anomaly, rather than sensible practice. It’s practical transportation. Of course, looking at the families with 2 kids and an SUV – or two – for no particular reason, I understand that practicality rarely enters into a purchasing decision.

The Prius might deserve 4 or 5 stars IF a hybrid was to only way to get good gas mileage, but that is not the case. There are cars like the Jetta TDI which deliver good gas mileage and are still fun to drive. So the rolling video game deservedly gets one star IMHO

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At least the rolling video game is stilling rolling, unlike that smelly junk that spends its entire life in a repair shop.

The anti-prius backlash is not the creation of some Detroit fan’s desire to see Toyota fall (although they probably won’t do much to help them cushion it). Such a belief can only be described as the belief of a Prius driver who thinks too highly of themself and the car they’re driving. Some would even call it the, “don’t hate me because I’m beautiful” syndrome.

The real anti-hybrid backlash seems to come from Prius fans themselves who refuse to give other hybrid vehicles (or any other high-mileage vehicle for that matter) the time of day. This only justifies the belief that the Prius is a lucky stroke for Toyota and that anybody who buys one is doing so out of the image factor and nothing else.

I also have a lot of trouble understanding the language used to judge interiors. I can’t remember whether hard plastics are good or bad, and I don’t know how hard a hard plastic is.

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Same here. Other than the seat, the pedals, the steering wheel and some power nobs, I don’t intend to touch any part of the interior. If I do, I must be in trouble.

So to all car reviewers, keep the status quo. There is no such thing as pure objectivity.

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But there is relative objectivity.

That’s why we give students marks and count presidential election ballots.

I mean, it’s like employers hiring new grads (more or less) based on their GPA’s. Since the new grads are from different colleges, there is a common belief that the grading standards of one school are very close to another.

If one college uses a vastly different standard, it’s not going to go well. It might as well not assigning grades at all.

I think a lot of the anti-Prius sentiment stems from a Detroit fan desire to see Toyota fall flat on its face and the fervent hope that the Prius is an example of a giant Toyota miscalculation. It is Toyota’s lightning rod for this because it’s Toyota’s most unique offering.

So, people, that’s not happening. The Gen 2 Prius sold better than most of the vehicles in GM’s catalog. Factor out fleet sales and get doubly depressed. I expect the new Gen 3 will sell very well.

Can Toyota miscalculate? Sure. The Tundra, which is probably a very good pickup, hasn’t gained much traction. I understand why Toyota did it (they figured they were leaving money on the table) but it didn’t work out.

But heaping scorn on a car that’s selling very well is just deranged. Good sales means people like it. It also has tremendous owner loyalty.

Further, Detroit fans hoping to see Toyota fall flat on its face to ensure GM’s recovery should think again. Detroit has been thoroughly sampled by most Toyota owners. If Toyota doesn’t offer what they want, there’s Honda, Nissan and Hyundai. Hyundai strikes me as very likely to benefit from any other manufacturer dropping the ball. Their cars are very good values and carry a long, comforting warranty.

English is not Latin.

Exactly how do the challenger rate?

Jetta TDI: EPA rated 34/41mpg? We’re supposed to be impressed? Nowhere near a Prius! Uses diesel; more CO2 per mile, diesel engine not cheap. I’ll bet the Prius interior is more roomy. Legendary VW quality? Next!

Ford Fusion: Nice looking sedan. Less flexible cargo space. Can’t touch Prius fuel economy in town or on the road. $4K more than a Prius. Next!

Honda Insight: Cheaper than a Prius but not by much. Cramped interior in comparison to a Prius (especially the rear seats). Fuel economy better than a compact car but 8mpg or so short of the Prius. Next!

If you pick the right criteria, your challengers probably have something going for them but if you do value good fuel economy, the Prius has a massive edge and the Prius has some other features that make the car very competitive. And, for what you get, it’s very reasonably priced.

People are going to have to get over the idea that “tree humpers” and “tree humpers” alone like this car. It sells pretty well; there aren’t enough “tree humpers” to pick up 10K and more per month, continuously, since 2005.

The Prius might deserve 4 or 5 stars IF a hybrid was to only way to get good gas mileage, but that is not the case. There are cars like the Jetta TDI which deliver good gas mileage and are still fun to drive. So the rolling video game deservedly gets one star IMHO

I agree. The Prius is not the only game in town so it deserves a lower rating for it’s controvertial styling, mis placed and spacey dash location, dull driving dynamics and high cost. There are other better ways to get good gas mileage starting with a Jetta TDI, Ford Fusiuon hybrid or the Honda Insight for example, so the Prius deserves it’s low rating. It’s refreshing to hear some truth about a vehicle instead of a bunch of tree humpers rating a car because it makes them feel better and makes big brother government happy.

nice.

Will the Federation have the people, time and money to boldly go where no split infinitive has gone before?

Define “effectively.”

Politics are essential for any and every Prius review with little else but mpgs and its displaced environmental destruction included. Political affairs are its sole reason for existing ever since the first celeb pulled up to the red carpet in one. At least Tom and Katie had the good sense to come in their Veyron.

Marketing strategy is important in understanding the Hyundai Genesis coupe. Most mags got this wrong by comparing it to the Mustang and/or Camaro. Hyundai cleverly positioned it both as an upscale accord coupe And as a cut-price G35 so it would compete with nothing – more buyers are more likely to shop it then. Although I’m clueless as to what potential Mustang buyer would really consider it.

Bringing price into the equation usually always spells disaster. Car and Driver seems everytime to rate the Corvette better than the 911 and the Boxster better than the Corvette. Extrapolation shows C&D finds the Boxster is better value than the 911. Oh dear.

What about masquerading genealogies? Does the 300C have the back-bone of the 1996 E-class? Yes. Does it matter? No. Is the Land Rover Range Rover a crossover based on a sedan? Yes. Does it matter? Yes.

Google confirms most people don’t understand the difference between the Acura TSX and the TL. Besides the obvious size, hp, mpgs, etc, they struggle to work out the real difference inducing the usual cop-outs, ”The TSX is smaller and therefore more nimble and handles better..”. Baloney. They’re confused by their instinct to look at it top-down.

Bottom-up is how car design and marketing actually work and it goes like this:
Honda makes 2 accords. The Japanese Accord is one. And the 2nd is the same car thats stretched to fit larger engines and larger people and is called the American Accord. Then they’re both luxed-up with acura emblems and such and Honda sells inherently identical cars next to each other in Acura showrooms.

But their biggest difference is the important one for buyers. Price. So its easy to choose. How much honda do you want? its like buying wallpaper. If you want 9ft 2in of Honda – buy the Acura TL. 8ft 10in, the TSX. In need of honest value? Get the accord. Bigger ego? Get the Acura and pay the price with your wallet.

But the TSX handles better than the TL because its lighter, right? Bunk. The TL feels exactly the same as the TSX with 1 of your fat friends in the back.

So to all car reviewers, keep the status quo. There is no such thing as pure objectivity.

Reviewers should remain true to their style, and brash is Jack’s. I am surprised that people still manage to get worked up over his particular tone and delivery. (At least people are paying attention?)

With regard to the cars themselves, I would hope that what we look for as reviewers is as complex as what we look for as consumers. Price, style, fun, practicality, uniqueness, quality of materials, efficiency – all of these play a role. The reviews that fixate on a single failing miss the point – there are few truly abysmal cars out there. It is better, I think, to compare against the other available options across *all* of the above spectra. A Hyundai Genesis, then, needs to go up against both the Lexus *and* the Buick.