Want a car with good quality when I’m paying for the repair bill i.e. well after 100K miles.

Yeah, yeah – tough to zero in on way a problem occurs at say 16)K miles. Is it the owner’s fault for treating the car poorly? Is it the aftermarket parts that were installed along the way?

Besides we aren’t supposed to keep our cars that long – we’re supposed to replace them long before that.

Sorry, NOT GOOD ENOUGH for me. Chapter 11 or not; it doesn’t matter.

Poor design, incomplete or incorrect assembly, dealer and service department mistreatment/indifference have chased me away.

My experiences are only anecdotal, but at least at the BMW dealership, I got no guff. What I got were profuse apologies for my inconvenience, and proper correction of the problem. Rarely got treated that nicely at a GM dealership.

You might want to look at the Ford Transit to see if it has enough room. I can’t remember when it’s due to hit showrooms but I’ve seen at least one US spec preproduction test vehicle in my neighborhood. I live in a radio/tv farm and most of the transplants as well as the domestics test their cars for radio frequency interference around here.

There’s one spot I know where all you’d need to do is set up a webcam & a dvr and you’d have plenty of spy shots.

Most automakers can be near the top the list for a year or so, but those that are in the top 5 or 10 for over 10 years in a row are the ones that see their market share increase on an annual basis. The domestics can’t get there AND stay there. Show me any of the debt3 in the top 5 or 10 for 10 years in a row and I’ll CONSIDER one of their vehicles. Consider it, but no guarantee I’ll leave my present automaker. Been burned too many times by all three so now I have conditions before I’ll consider one of their vehicles.

People at the 2.8 who have access to sales data by day will be able to track sales before and after the likelihood of BR getting to the public mind as it has since the fiasco in Congress. I’d think it’s already taking a toll.

If we think of dealers and suppliers as critically ill patients in a hospital ward, prudent care would involve some kind of monitoring of vital signs, or at least taking a temp now an then. I wonder how much is known of the short term viability of dealers and suppliers. I have to think nobody is paying much attention. If lots of dealers start going down, will GMAC or local banks be flooded with cars they don’t want? And what will they do with them? Another dying dealer surely won’t be interested. Meanwhile, the income stream from the dead dealer is gone so the lender is stressed even more. Etc. We’re at the point where some serious govt money is going to flow no matter what, so some planning for a wind down might help.

That’s true for GM. Ford actually is statistically equal to Toyota and Honda in terms of new car quality. Interestingly, the German brands are poorer than the domestics.

Would you run a multibillion dollar company for $1 a year?

It would make more sense to pay them a decent six figure salary (remember, we have over 50,000 federal employees who make more than $100K a year) with million dollar bonuses contingent on turning the company around and getting it profitable.

Whenever possible it’s best to motivate people with their own selfish interests.

The problem with high CEO salaries is that too often they are independent of actual results.

I didn’t have a problem when the NYSE paid Grasso $150 million a year, since the exchange was very profitable under his management. Elliot Spitzer didn’t think it was moral for Grasso’s bosses to decide he was worth it. Of course, Spitzer may not be the best judge of what’s moral and what’s not.

Ronnie Schreiber
Motorobilia

Jolo,

I was going to be snarky and say that perhaps you may have heard about these newfangled things called search engines.

Instead I’ll just suggest that you try:
http://www.house.gov
http://www.senate.gov

While you’re at it, you might want to mention the $800 billion that the federal government has looted from the industrial Midwest over the past three decades.

Frankly, I’d rather have people serving our country out a sense of patriotism, like my daughter who just joined the Navy, than out of economic need.

If Wagoner, Lutz, et al have “bankruptcy-proof” pensions, I think it would be from GM purchasing annuities from an insurance company. An annuity that is already funded (paid for), and is owned by the recipient, would no longer be an obligation of GM.

Mikey610: [re: GM loyalists dying off] “avg. age of a Buick car buyer = 72″

Good! There should be a good supply of mint-condition, low-mileage Park Avenues for another decade or so. When I’m in my dotage, I’ll need a Buick.

And what about the jobs bank? Is there any other industry in the US where people are paid full & partial salaries for any length of time after having their position eliminated?

The assumption is that through a C11 the UAW contracts would be re-negotiated down. Will the UAW rollover on that? I do not think so.

I think the UAW will pull out all stops, use every connection and political IOU to gain a minimal reduction in pay/bene’s.

Who will stand up to them?

This could be the first real test of the new President.

Agree with you 100% (about the 60%, that is).

In fact I would argue that this ‘blind loyalty’ problem has actually hurt GM over the years – many of the loyalists will buy whatever POS they (GM) put out.

The part about them literally dying off is so true…avg. age of a Buick car buyer = 72.

I agree with a lot of other people here that the UAW will be in quite a pinch to remain viable since their work rules, pay rules, and pension rules will soon become obvious nooses for GM’s recovery.

I disagree with others that GM in bankruptcy won’t sell any cars. With the taxpayers having “skin” in the game, I think many more people will look at a GM car rather than just buy another Camry. I can see the GM using the restructuring as a rallying point for their marketing.

A serious issue for GM is in determining an a meaningful projection of future cash flows. Since they lose money on so many vehicles and will have to “fire sale” them for the next year or so, getting good estimates will have a ginormous impact on the viability of their plan.

Answer: nobody.

I disagree. The GM LOYALISTS won’t consider buying anything other than a GM vehicle. They literally can’t comprehend not driving/owning a GM.

The question is what percentage of GM’s customers are Loyalists? 40%? 50%? 60%? 70%?

My best, humble guess is 60%, because I don’t believe there are that many people left who want to buy a GM product (when given the chance to buy a Honda or Toyota). That said, that 60% gets smaller every day…as they are literally dying off.

1)SERIOUS UAW concessions forced upon them by Govt. Or, abolishment of the UAW contracts altogether.

2) Ability to shed brands and dealers.

Answer: nobody.

Actually, I know lots of younger folks who will buy from them so they can get out of their shitboxes and into a new or newer car for a price they can afford. They figure that they will only need oil changes periodically, since, you know, it’s new and their new car reliability data is almost as good as the foreign makers. Their folks will cosign a loan and they’ll be off. Yes, I know too many of these kinds of people and there are probably lots around the country who are salivating at the prospect.

Who is going to throw hard earned money on the hood of a GM and say “I’ll buy it” after the file Chapter 11?

Answer: nobody.

That is why they are reluctant.

Does anyone know the intricacies of the VEBA deal? Sounds like Ford has their share pushed into the pot, but if GM (or Chrysler) can’t foot their share – then is it even possible to reap the so called “benefits” of the magic 2010 UAW liability offload? The horizon of “better days of competitive costs” seems like it can’t happen.

Structured, clear and factual.

Thank you!

That being said, I think that dppeprs hit one one major issue not addressed that has to be dealt with: the bloated dealer network.

I think it’s fair to say that a reorg’d GM would have to drop thousands of dealers. 40-60% of their dealers would be cut. GM has thus far shown no interest in dealing with this problem, and they have not addressed it in any of their “plans”.

Overall you present a cogent and thoughtful blueprint for GM’s prepackaged bankruptcy. Unfortunately, since the government is involved, the likelihood of its implementation is somewhere south of nil.

We’ll see a crippled GM linger on for a couple more years, constantly on the verge of collapse, until Wagoner is forced out. The new GM CEO will file for bankruptcy, but it’ll be too little, too late. All the cash and assets will have been depleted, and GM will be forced to liquidate due to lack of a viable business plan.