however, let us not forget the most overlooked reason, why gm has no right to complain about government intervention: LOBBYISTS.

apparently it’s ok for gm to throw billions of dollars at high priced lobbyists over the years to bribe lawmakers to cater laws to their company and industry, so that they can yield higher profits at the expense of smaller companies and more importantly the environment. yet when the government throws billions at them to save their unethical behinds, suddenly the government doesn’t have a say?

so according to gm, it’s ok for government to intervene only when it involves “behind-the-scenes” deceit, and not ok when it involves “in-the-public-eye”, good will aid?

we’ve had the technology and know-how to build efficient electrical cars at normal cost for nearly 75 years, but there is more money to be made producing vehicles the way they are produced now. ESPECIALLY when you throw in the impact of the oil industry and their lobbyists. who cares about the environment and out descendants future, right??

don’t mean to single out gm and the entire auto industy, as this obviously occurs in all industries. financial and synthetic chemical / pharmaceutical industries are possibly the worst.

and people wonder why democrats want regulation…

GM sales are down
Chrysler sales are down
Ford sales are down
So are Toyota, Honda, etc etc, etc
The entire industry’s sales are down, way down. All the companies are losing money, big time money. Kill the entire industry?

————————————-

Only kill the harmful ones, i.e. the parasites living on taxpayers.

Best summary of the situation I’ve ever read.

If the companies are going to be restructured and sold, they need these things:

-Working capital
-Some, although not all, of the production facilities
-Some, although not all, of the dealer network
-As few pre-existing liabilities as possible
-A workforce to make the stuff they want to sell

You’ll notice that all of those things are underway.

I know that people here love to hate the union, and that’s your right. But if somebody is going to take over these companies, they are going to want to build stuff. Which makes having all of the workers bail out not a positive.

The new owner of Chrysler is getting better terms and an ability to start making product, which is what a new owner would want. For the sake of expediency, starting without the blue collar workforce makes no sense because rehiring from zero would itself take months or years of effort and expense, while preventing the production needed to make the business work.

When Toyota began running the NUMMI plant, it kept 85% of the workforce, even though it was one of the worst plants in the GM system with a nasty relationship with the UAW. Toyota renegotiated the terms, but didn’t clear out most of the workforce, because they needed to keep workers if they were going to build cars. They did, and it became of one the best plants under new management.

Your focus is on the wrong place. You need to think of what a buyer would want. They want equipment and people ready to work, not massive debt and labor disputes. It may be great symbolism for you, but it would be highly impractical for putting a deal together.

When I saw the first Risk Factor statements in a prospectus for one of my companies, I was appalled and wanted to fold. Both financial guys and lawyers said: “Calm down. Nobody reads that stuff.”

And nobody did.

You mean the govt. is going to make GM buy up failing Eurpean automakers? Or the govt. is going to make GM slash and burn it’s suppliers so they get lower quality parts? The govt. is going to tell GM to make their small cars as crappy as possible so that most people will prefer the competition?

Why worry about the govt. decisions? Is it even theoretically possible that the govt. men are more incompetent than GM execs? No.

Pure delusional speculation. So far we have seen GM announce plans to import more vehicles, many of those from China (a first). GM and Chrysler are closing factories and dealerships at a record pace, hardly the sort of thing Government Owned Failing Businesses are exactly known for. UAW members and non-UAW members are getting shown the door at an ever faster rate. How do you square the actual news with these fantasies about what you are just gosh darn certain the Democrats are going to do?

Delusional speculation? Look at Chrysler. The government essentially spent billions of tax-payer dollars in order to basically give a corporate version of Terry Schiavo to Fiat. Why? To preserve the collective bargaining agreement currently in place. Slashing workers? I don’t think anyone on the UAW has been “laid off” in the context I understand that phrase. The more accurate term is “buyout” in my dialect. If you’re not in the union, well, now that’s a layoff.

Frankly, importing cars under GM’s nameplates from China kinda proves the point that GM can’t make a econobox worth selling in this country with its current labor environment. I also find it insulting that my tax dollars are being used to subsidize a corporate shell to import Chinese cars. What’s that subsidy work out to be if GM imports a million rides from Maoistan?

The government would rather have that arrangement – importing Chinese rides with UAW collective bargaining in place (like Chrysler) – rather than blow the union up in Chapter 11 and maybe see American cars (cars, not trucks) being made profitably by GM in THIS country? Sounds like Democrats to me, what am I missing here?

15% unemployment, Dow below 6000, and car sales non-existent.

I see used cars for sale everywhere, no one is buying anything they don’t need.

But, if GM is not happy with the government control, just pay back what they have “borrowed” to the government and go off on their own. Oh wait, they can’t.

It’s hard to believe he was once considered a follower of Rand. His last years as Fed Chairman were part of the housing bubble.

And why is the opinion of a dead novelist relevant to this discussion?

There is a term for this the Rand followers have, and it is virgin.

Pure delusional speculation. So far we have seen GM announce plans to import more vehicles, many of those from China (a first). GM and Chrysler are closing factories and dealerships at a record pace, hardly the sort of thing Government Owned Failing Businesses are exactly known for. UAW members and non-UAW members are getting shown the door at an ever faster rate. How do you square the actual news with these fantasies about what you are just gosh darn certain the Democrats are going to do?

Oh well, Make Mine Freedom!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mVh75ylAUXY

Honest to goodness, there was a long list of deregulations that led to our fiscal breakdown. It was not a matter of a few regulators turning their eyes from their duties, it was a matter of powerful politicos changing laws: Phil and Wendy Gram being two examples. These are not evil people, but I believe them to be misguided.

One cannot enforce laws and safeguards that have been eliminated. I am glad that your middle school kids are smart enough to recognize the problem you described; unfortunately, that is not analogous to the economic problems we face.

http://www.njweedman.com/fatass.jpg

Damn, it’s going to take awhile to get that image out of my mind. Thanks!

Student: “Enforce it.”

One could just repeal the 35 mph law.

We don’t lack the laws or regulation – we lack the follow through.

Abso-freaking-loutely the truth. I teach social studies to middle school kids in Gallup, NM. Guess what? Whey you ask the kid the question, “A road has a 35mph speed limit, you drive 45mph down it and blow past a cop and he does nothing, do you need new, tougher speed limits?

Their answer? “No, Mr. Fruchey.”

“If you already have the law you need what should you do with it to make it effective?”

Student: “Enforce it.”

With Barry, Nancy, and Ronnie on the case, they will manage to kill-off ladder-frame trucks and therefore remove any positive cash-flow from any division anywhere in GM.

It takes awhile to completely re-tool to a product no one wants or a product everyone wants. Throw in the standard doubling of both time and cost associated with government operations, and I don’t see how this is going to work in the time allotted, even if I was an enthusiast for this Government Motors situation, I just don’t see how this can work product-wise in the projected timespan of suckling.

The UAW is the wild child…

The wild child turns 16 and torches 10 Mercedes at a local dealer…

The parents are held liable in civil court and lose everything they spent 20 years building.. the home, the dream retirement… everything…

They all move into a trailer, the 16 year old runs off, the husband starts drinking, the 14 year old daughter is left to fend for herself and becomes pregnant, the wife is working 2 jobs just to keep the lights on.

Who do you blame? Once you figure out who to blame, how do you punish them?

These lines from Casino sum all of Detroit up:

“Nobody knew all the details,
but it should’ve been perfect.
I mean, he had me, Nicky Santoro,
his best friend, watching his ass..
and he had, Ginger,
the woman he loved, on his arm.
But in the end,
we f_cked it all up.
It should’ve been so sweet too.
But it turned out to be the last time
that street guys like us…
were ever given anything
that f_ckin’ valuable again.”

They were in perfect shape with no chance of going under. Oh, the poor investors!

Why does he hate America so much?

“Kill the entire industry?”

Your question is biased…very much so. You are implying that *I*, or some external “entity” will be doing the “Killing”.

Nothing…and I repeat NOTHING could be further from the truth.

You’re placing blame where blame does not exist. It never has.

Yes, all companies are hurting. But a junkie high on heroin will tell you the same thing if you don’t give him another “fix”…that YOU’LL be KILLING him!!!

The question you should pose is “What opportunities should I have taken, vs. pissing them all away in the past, to have prevented this situation? What have I learned from 30+ years of failure which will carry me forward?”

Furthermore, it’s not enough to just “know” what you need to do…you need to ACTUALLY DO IT!! Take action! Stop your self-destructive behavior and take positive action…and no, that does NOT include crushing and destroying each and EVERY (save for museum pieces) EV-1s.

Sorry buddy, I don’t accept blame for the death of GM.

GM sales are down
Chrysler sales are down
Ford sales are down
So are Toyota, Honda, etc etc, etc
The entire industry’s sales are down, way down. All the companies are losing money, big time money. Kill the entire industry?