Comments on: E85 Boondoggle of the Day: “U.S. taxpayers subsidize ethanol to the tune of 51 cents a gallon” http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/ The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news. Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:11:12 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: cretinx http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-475292 cretinx Tue, 03 Jun 2008 18:19:34 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-475292 unfortunately, next to nobody takes advantage of E85's octane advantage. If engine management could adjust timing you would see MORE power as a result of that lowered efficiency - a worthy exchange in my eyes. Even better - turbo cars could run more timing AND more boost (safely) - you'd see probably 50-100 hp gains (most turbo cars today see 50 hp with the addition of a 93 octane chip as is). unfortunately, next to nobody takes advantage of E85’s octane advantage.

If engine management could adjust timing you would see MORE power as a result of that lowered efficiency – a worthy exchange in my eyes.

Even better – turbo cars could run more timing AND more boost (safely) – you’d see probably 50-100 hp gains (most turbo cars today see 50 hp with the addition of a 93 octane chip as is).

]]> By: benders http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-473182 benders Tue, 03 Jun 2008 02:05:27 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-473182 No, E85 has a higher octane rating than gasoline. If I remember correctly, ethanol has an octane rating of ~110. And the reason the National Petrochemical & Refiners Association wants to kill E85? They can buy ethanol cheaper than they can make gasoline so they mix ethanol to make premium fuel. So if E85 goes away, the price of ethanol goes down and they make more money. And I can buy E85 for $2.65 (in the heart of corn country); that's about $3.53/energy content (33% less energy). No, E85 has a higher octane rating than gasoline. If I remember correctly, ethanol has an octane rating of ~110.

And the reason the National Petrochemical & Refiners Association wants to kill E85? They can buy ethanol cheaper than they can make gasoline so they mix ethanol to make premium fuel. So if E85 goes away, the price of ethanol goes down and they make more money.

And I can buy E85 for $2.65 (in the heart of corn country); that’s about $3.53/energy content (33% less energy).

]]> By: EJ_San_Fran http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-471861 EJ_San_Fran Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:08:01 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-471861 The fact that E-85 is so expensive proves only one thing: the sellers don't really want to sell it. I suppose there is plenty of demand in the regular gas market to sell all ethanol produced. We will need to wait for a situation of oversupply of ethanol for E-85 prices to come crashing down. The fact that E-85 is so expensive proves only one thing: the sellers don’t really want to sell it.

I suppose there is plenty of demand in the regular gas market to sell all ethanol produced.

We will need to wait for a situation of oversupply of ethanol for E-85 prices to come crashing down.

]]> By: Raskolnikov http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-471782 Raskolnikov Mon, 02 Jun 2008 20:00:54 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-471782 http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm Says here you'll save $ and reduce your carbon footprint by using E85. Better yet, ask somebody that actually uses the stuff. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm

Says here you’ll save $ and reduce your carbon footprint by using E85.

Better yet, ask somebody that actually uses the stuff.

]]> By: DearS http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-471391 DearS Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:58:07 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-471391 Is E85 25% cleaner than Gas? Also it may finally start making sense when gas is 25% more expensive....$4.32 x 125% = $5.39 9/10. Oh and the Less foreign oil is one of the perks. Although I wonder how that balances out with food prices. Also Perhaps Americans will stop eating to much corn (syrup). Is E85 25% cleaner than Gas?

Also it may finally start making sense when gas is 25% more expensive….$4.32 x 125% = $5.39 9/10. Oh and the Less foreign oil is one of the perks. Although I wonder how that balances out with food prices. Also Perhaps Americans will stop eating to much corn (syrup).

]]> By: Kendahl http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-471221 Kendahl Mon, 02 Jun 2008 17:36:55 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-471221 Depending on where you live, E-10 may make incremental economic sense. Because of ethanol's lower energy content, you get 3% lower mileage on E-10 than on straight 87 octane regular. If E-10 is more than 3% cheaper, the lower price more than makes up for the loss in mileage. With E-85, the loss in mileage is 25%. Even at today's oil prices, E-85 is never cost effective. The above ignores ethanol subsidies that consumers can't affect by their choices at the pump. They make ethanol an even worse deal. Depending on where you live, E-10 may make incremental economic sense. Because of ethanol’s lower energy content, you get 3% lower mileage on E-10 than on straight 87 octane regular. If E-10 is more than 3% cheaper, the lower price more than makes up for the loss in mileage. With E-85, the loss in mileage is 25%. Even at today’s oil prices, E-85 is never cost effective.

The above ignores ethanol subsidies that consumers can’t affect by their choices at the pump. They make ethanol an even worse deal.

]]> By: SunnyvaleCA http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-471071 SunnyvaleCA Mon, 02 Jun 2008 16:46:28 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-471071 Since the boondoggle is a fixed amount ($0.51) and the mileage penalty is a ratio (25%), E85 will fall <i>farther</i> behind as fuel prices continue to rise. That said, are there any E85 capable vehicles that require 91 octane or more? E85 and premium are the same (adjusted) price according to AAA. Then you would be getting 98 (or more) octane fuel for the price of 91-94 octane. Since the boondoggle is a fixed amount ($0.51) and the mileage penalty is a ratio (25%), E85 will fall farther behind as fuel prices continue to rise.

That said, are there any E85 capable vehicles that require 91 octane or more? E85 and premium are the same (adjusted) price according to AAA. Then you would be getting 98 (or more) octane fuel for the price of 91-94 octane.

]]> By: seoultrain http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-470632 seoultrain Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:39:45 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-470632 Has anyone other than Koenigsegg developed a car that uses E85 exclusively? The CCXR's engine in E85 form makes 25% more power because of higher compression ratios made possible by E85's higher RON/AKI, certainly worth the conversion. The biggest problem with E85 is half-assed Flex Fuel, which doesn't take advantage of E85's only real advantage. Has anyone other than Koenigsegg developed a car that uses E85 exclusively? The CCXR’s engine in E85 form makes 25% more power because of higher compression ratios made possible by E85’s higher RON/AKI, certainly worth the conversion. The biggest problem with E85 is half-assed Flex Fuel, which doesn’t take advantage of E85’s only real advantage.

]]> By: driving course http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-469822 driving course Mon, 02 Jun 2008 08:16:12 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-469822 Would that the government in the UK would stop taxing the hell out of fuel let alone subsidise any fuel product! Would that the government in the UK would stop taxing the hell out of fuel let alone subsidise any fuel product!

]]> By: Campisi http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/comment-page-1/#comment-469791 Campisi Mon, 02 Jun 2008 07:10:02 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/e85-boondoggle-of-the-day-us-taxpayers-subsidize-ethanol-to-the-tune-of-51-cents-a-gallon/#comment-469791 Doesn't E85 have a higher octane rating than pure gasoline? If that's the case, what would it cost (after the corn-lobby subsidies) compared to fuel of a similar octane rating? Doesn’t E85 have a higher octane rating than pure gasoline? If that’s the case, what would it cost (after the corn-lobby subsidies) compared to fuel of a similar octane rating?

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