You do know that both of those gov’t funded projects started out as defense projects, don’t you? Defense is a constitutionally mandated obligation of the federal government. Providing a subsidy for corn growers is not.

Actually, the GPS system shows the basic goodness of the American people. We paid to develop a military technology that we decided was too valuable to mankind to use only as a weapon so we make it available, free of charge, to the entire world. Can you think of another country that has done likewise with its own proprietary military equipment?

True, it could be argued that since armed forces need fuel (see: Imperial Japan’s struggle to provide their fleet with fuel and Nazi Germany’s coal>liquid fuel efforts), research on alcohol fuels could be done under DOD funding. Likewise with infrastructure, as was done with the Interstate highway system when the Eisenhower administration sold the highway system as vital to the nation’s defense (the curves on the Interstates are designed to allow a semi-tractor pulling an ICBM to travel 80 mph).

Still, wsn’s point is valid: if a technology is commercially promising it should be able to find venture funding. GPS and the Interstate highways system were so expensive to implement, with little chance of immediate profitability, that only government could have funded them at the time.

You do know that the Internet and GPS technology both started as government funded projects, yes? To this day, GPS receivers rely on signals provided gratis by the US government’s network of GPS satellites.

Far more efficient, a local electricity supply to shore up the national grid, and we get electric cars.

Now if only they flew. I was promised a flying car, and I want one.

Andrew

What about leaded airplane fuel? They used to sell 80 and 100 octane at all the small airports.

http://www.mindfully.org/Technology/2005/Biosphere-2-No-Future20feb05.htm

Anybody remember Biosphere 2? I do. It’s about a small group of people who thought they had all the answers. And everytime I hear or read about E85, veggiefuel, biodiesel, ILUC, CO2 and GHG I think about it.

E85 Boondoggle is correct. This is all political BS.

1) Don’t use my tax money to pay for the research or infrastructure of E85. Look for venture capital. If no one is interested, probably it’s a bad idea. If someone invested and earned big, good for him.

2) Don’t force it on buyers and sellers. Every buyer and seller should still have the right to buy or sell pure gasoline in this supposedly free country. Sellers will sell E85, if it’s profitable; buyers will buy E85, if it costs less overall. They are smart human being and don’t need the government to tell them what makes sense.

Can flex-fuel vehicles use Methanol blends? I’ve read conflicting information. Would be funny if a mandate to attempt to help corn farmers while acting “green” created a market for coal to methanol synthetic fuel instead.

Funny, I seem to recall reading something about that recently…..

Corn-based ethanol and soy-based biodiesel are dumb ways to create biofuels to substitute for petroleum.

So is cutting down rain forest to grow oil palm trees.

Unfortunately, since Big Agra in the US is all about corn and soybeans, that’s the primary focus of our biofuels efforts.

If you read the actual proposal, it does make some salient points. However, the suggestion to completely ignore ILUC is truly dumb.

I’m sure there’s some conservative estimate of ILUC effects that can be used until the uncertainties settle down.

My mileage on real gasoline over a week’s driving was about 50 this morning when I filled up. $6.50 worth of gas; 3 gallons, for 148 miles.

The mileage is more similar to spring time because some of last week we actually were above 37 degrees F. (This is where the MPG on the Prius “goes bad” below and “goes good” above). You might say it’s the temperature tipping point.

I’m still running full winter tires and fuel is still considered winter blend, BTW. (Both of these adversely affect MPG’s).

E10 works out to be about a 20-30% reduction in MPG for my Prius.

So with E10 blends in the Prius, I’m using 10-20% MORE CRUDE OIL to run it (not even counting the extra crude oil and natural gas and ground water used to manufacture the 10% ethanol plus ship it by truck for polluting – I mean mixing – with gasoline).

Ethanol is the biggest boondoggle this country has had in decades. It may well end up to be the straw that breaks the camel’s back.

Pretty tough to seriously advocate feeding SUV’s instead of people, too.

Real gasoline was $2.15 a gallon, E10 is $1.99 a gallon in my area. 7.5% more expensive. Worth it.

I understand E10 plays havoc on boats and classic cars, for sure, for sure. If you have a fiberglass fuel tank in a boat, E10 MELTS THE DAMN TANK so you get fuel in your bilge. Not to mention muck (once fiberglass) in your carburetor.

Yeah, I’m a bit angry. I dislike both political partys, and never vote for an incumbent. The incest in Washington is worse than anything you will find in the “back woods”.

Rant over … for now.

Back to ethanol …. at least I can get the 100% dino stuff for my classic here in Minnesota. I even sometimes ignore the “warning” on the pump and put it in the ‘Bird. To hell with the corn lobby and their bought representatives.

How can we allow our representatives, experts in economics and human nature that they are, to sell us weaker fuel for more money?

If the big pimple in all of this is buying oil from our overseas enemies then just drill domestically for the shit already. California has so much oil it bubbles out of the ground. Since CA uses so much and has so much say in how are cars are built, then CA should drill it’s own damn oil and leave the rest for us. Then they can do whatever they want out there and face their own consequences.

http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-methanol-alternative

Was that a Jenna Jameson film….?