As long as its mixed with fruit punch instead of gasoline, its sounds like fun.

Really, B&B, this ethanol additive is just another form of bailout.

We should have a Boston Ethanol party!!!
No, wait.
That sounds messy.

In reading the article it seems that the testing being done confirms that the average driver driving an E10 compatible car would not notice much difference with E20 (which, by the way, is to the credit of the ethanol producers to be doing proactive testing as opposed to the oil companies who tend to ram their problems such as Mississippi River/Exxon Valdez-type oil spills, MBTE, leaded gas, etc. down our throats). It seems the only concern is with the catalytic converter overheating a bit under “full-throttle”. Possibly the overheating is occurring because the exhaust is too clean which would confuse the ECM. Maybe the appropriate code in the ECM could possibly be adjusted by a laptop computer to a different setting that would eliminate the erroneous feedback from the catalytic converter. That being said, people should be getting more helpful information from automobile manufacturers on what can be done to use E20 or E30 in existing E10 compatible cars, if that’s their choice to use it. I’m surprised dealership repair departments don’t see a customer wallet-flush opportunity in all this.

Makes me wonder if the “properly” built fuel pumps could survive exposure to E20…

I guess the experiment is underway in Minn.

You grabbed my attention!
Actually, I paniced and spilled a little.
Now help here…Scotch and Bourbon.
Scotch is NOT from corn…bourbon is, right?
So…my little friend is safe?

How long did your cars actually run with E20?

Also tried E20 in a 1995 Crown Victoria with no problems. It’s got about 150k on it now.

Without ethanol competition gasoline prices would be higher than they are.

Ethanol will still be around when the last of the gasoline has been used up.

BTW, I’m looking forward to working on a tidal turbine design starting next month. During which period I’ll still be working part time on a lithium battery pack. I like energy and want plenty available to squander as I please.

Until plug in hybrids (or pure electric cars) become commonly available, electrical production and use of fuels for transportation are two completely seperate issues. In the continental US, oil is not used for electrical production, and no car manufacturer currently makes an electric car or plug in hybrid (the Tesla and those glorified golf car thingys don’t count). So mentioning wind or nuclear when talking about transportation is pointless, and will continue to be pointless until plug in hybrids are common, which won’t happen for many years.

Why are we not more up in arms about something that takes your 300 hp car and makes it a 275 hp car ?

Less gas mileage, too.

Energy neutral.

Way to go.

Of course it would save gasoline, because there is also less gasoline contained in the fuel being used. You would use more gallons of fuel overall, but fewer gallons of gasoline.

That being said, advocating E20 is a bogus plan. You can (and often should) run cars on E10, but E20 can’t be used in most cars today.

But the real problem is that you can’t grow enough corn, switchgrass or whatever to produce enough E20 to satisfy US demands for fuel. Brazil can get away with this because the country uses far less energy than the US does. If they used energy as it was going out of style, like we do, they wouldn’t be able to make it work, either.

And does this even save any gas, what with the reduced mileage?

I know I worried a bout vanadium availability in the case of a ramp-up, and my recollection is that it was not a problem, or I would have written that into the article. The economics of the batteries were not absolutely clear when I wrote the article because there hadn’t been enough experience, but they looked promising–I know I included some figures comparing wind/VRB with other sources, including nuclear, in UK or Europe.

Additionally, I think there was a study that found that in a well integrated grid that could move power easily around a large portion of the country, wind/solar could be baseload without storage. I think this was Nat’l Academy of Sciences, in the last year. Of course, that presupposes upgrading the grid, something that should be done anyway. I should look for that. Feel free to email me directly at motorlegends@aol.com

Informative articles. What are the economics of the VRB batteries and if wind energy does reach a critical mass, can these be manufactured in a timely manner at a reasonable price? What happens to raw material price – I assume vanadium is the critical material – when market demand ramps up sharply?

Wind and solar without storage cannot be base power. Base power must be there on dark still nights. Re: storage, we’ll have to see what happens in Texas, which yet again leads in energy.

Good luck in your work on tidal, and see http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2007/115-12/innovations-abs.html
on that subject.

As for E20, another good reason not to live in Minnesota.

However….

“focus …….on real sustainable energy solutions (nuclear).” Fixed it for you.

I’m happy to see work proceed on wind and solar, but neither can provide sustainable baseline power and do so near/medium term. And re: waste storage – Yucca Mt. is good enough – unless scientists/engineers decide otherwise. And those folks better be specialists – mining engineers, geologists, seismologists, hydrologists. Scientists in other disciplines aren’t more qualified to form an opinion than, say, Al Gore.

BTW, I’m looking forward to working on a tidal turbine design starting next month. During which period I’ll still be working part time on a lithium battery pack. I like energy and want plenty available to squander as I please.

By the time this mandate spreads, I hope to be driving a PHEV or full electric.

I see nothing but problems with this crap, as both my 2008 Elantra and 2005 Kawasaki expressly state that fuels with up to 10% ethanol are allowed.

Pardon the profanities, but I hate this whole ethanol thing. Great, so while I fill my tank, somebody else has an empty stomach. If we are forced into this, I’m moving to Canada Brazil Germany the moon.

I’m all for sustainable energy, but this shit is ridiculous. I wish people would focus more on conservation as a near/medium term solution, and secondly on real sustainable energy solutions (wind, solar).