![Note to Dodge dealers: To be a collectable, a car has to be rare or have something special about it. In thirty or forty years, the Challenger SE may be a \"collector\'s item\". Right now, it isn\'t. Get over it.](http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/2008-challenger-launch.jpg "Note to Dodge dealers: To be a collectable, a car has to be rare or have something special about it. In thirty or forty years, the Challenger SE may be a \\"collector\'s item\\". Right now, it isn\'t. Get over it.")
If I had a shotgun, I would be in jail right now. Since Chrysler LLC refuses to acknowledge TTAC's existence and won't give us access to their press cars (unlike Audi, Bentley, Aston Martin, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, and a lot of others), we have to bug dealers for test drives. Seeing dealerships in the greater Oklahoma City Metro area receiving Dodge Challenger SE's (the V6 4-speed auto-only versions), I went a-hunting. Fowler Dodge: "you cannot drive a Challenger until you sign the paperwork to buy one, even the $25,000 model, because people want NO miles on them, as they are collectors items." David Stanley Dodge possessed no less than six Challenger SEs. They flat-out refused a test drive, demanding a sizeable deposit for the "collectible model." Mark Heitz Dodge scoffed and refused to even open up the their car. Bob Moore Dodge in Edmond roped theirs off (I'm pretty sure I saw an SRT8 in an inflatable bubble). ALL of the Challengers I encountered had at least a $5K markup on the windshield (some disguised as a "chrome" package). Meanwhile, the base $25k model is already finding its way into the rental fleets (check out your local Thrifty– they might have one already). The behavior of dealers like these is a big reason Chrysler finds itself in such trouble. Time after time, they insult the customer with ridiculous markups, patronizing sales tactics and flat-out deceit. Jackie Cooper BMW will let you take out a $75,000 BMW M3, Mercedes of Oklahoma threw me the keys to an SL55 and Porsche of Edmond called me to tell me about their new Boxster S. Dodge dealers, I hate to break it to you, but your $25,000 Challenger SE, while good-looking IS NOT THAT SPECIAL. It's a $25k Mustang competitor. Let as many people as you can drive them, price them right and maybe, just maybe, you won't have them stacking up on your lots in three months.
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Mike, just pay thrifty to rent one, or wait a month and you can drive them all at the dealers. After all these dealers deserve their one month in the sun before the inevitable bloom fades and these cars become just that, cars.
Mike:
Remember, until this thing hit the showrooms, most Dodge dealers showrooms were empty of customers. I’m sure if you were a Dodge dealer, sales manager, or salesman, you would want to maximize the profits during the brief period this car will be “news”. After that, the dealership reverts to being a ghost town.
If someone is dumb enough to pay an excessive price just to have the first one in town, I say the dealer should fleece ‘em for all they can get out of them.
So, why not just ignore the domestics. You probably sleep better, feel better, and look smarter driving a Civic.
As I’ve said i’m getting a mustang, but I would wanna drive a challenger.. I mean there is a small chance the driving experience would be so nice that i’d forget all my logical reasons to get the mustang over the challenger. I do think the car looks great. But there is nothing that would make me buy one without driving it (save giving the car to me for nothing)
Dodge dealers never learn. I might, might be able to understand this if it were an SRT model, but the V6! Chrysler’s V6 is a joke.
Let’s see how collectible this car (the V6) really is after its beat from light to light by any vanilla Japanese sedan with more than 3.5 liters of displacement.
BTW: $25k for that hot mess?! Considering how well that thing performs, I’m looking at low mileage Zs or Mustang GTs.
I remember when the PT cruiser came out. I stopped at the dealer to look at one. The dealer had them marked up $5k and said the same stupid thing, “These will be collector items”.
He didn’t appreciate my comment about a tarted up Neon that will flood the rental lots in a few months. It might have had something to do with me LMAO while I said it.
I’m with nudave here. The Chrysler/Dodge dealers are so starved of product that seeing 3-4 guys drool over a new car they have must feel like they have a big IT product. And some may even know it won’t last, so they’re enjoying it while they can.
In any case, it probably drives just like a previous gen E-class, so what’s the big deal?
Boo on the Dodge dealers for doing this – at least in YOUR area. Do they ALL do this across the country? And remember they are independent businesses – they are not Chrysler, although I wish Chrylser would send them a notice to knock it off. I could see this for a first year SRT8, but not for the base model.
As for this: “Since Chrysler LLC refuses to acknowledge TTAC’s existence and won’t give us access to their press cars (unlike Audi, Bentley, Aston Martin, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, and a lot of others)”…
Do I have to spell it out for you? Re-read your reviews of Chrysler products. Re-read your news postings about Chrysler. Now Re-read your reviews of Audi, Bentley, Aston, etc. products. Re-read your news postings about Audi, Bentley, Aston, etc. Get it? Should Chrysler act like the abused wife who keeps going back to her husband?
I always thought it’s crazy to buy a new model over MSRP just to be the first one to have it. And for the V6 model?
Although the Challenger is very cool. If I was going to buy one as a collectable (if I had the garage space and I was single… LOL), it would be the SRT, not the V6. The V6 is what I would drive the wheels off of!
I’d go and rent a Challenger before I ever step foot in a Dodge dealership just to buy one. But who knows? Thrifty probably marked those up as well in the same way they marked up the 300 and Charger when they first appeared.
In any case, I’d probably wait a year till things cooled off to buy the R/T.
No worries.
Wait 6 months and they’ll be stacked like cordwood on every dealer lot and Chrysler inventory lot around Michigan.
Interest in the Challenger is a mile wide and an inch deep. Once the first 5,000 hit the streets, they’ll be “stacking ‘em deep and selling ‘em cheap”.
“Collector cars”??? V-6 Challengers? Maybe the SRT-8 models, but a garden-variety SE? Not a chance, unless we’re talking about the same people who put New Beetles and Miatas in bubbles, expecting them to be Collector Cars.
Wow. A challenger. That is not even on my “long” list.
I’d be surprised if this could beat up the “high end” ($30k’ish) japanese 2.5’s, let alone 3.5’s.
This reminds me of the daytime TV ads: “There will only be 5,000 of these rare coins minted!”
WE decide what is of value.
windswords:
What are they supposed to do? Pretend the cars don’t suck? They’re Chrysler’s for God’s sake.
Been here many times myself…
I’ve spent a bit of time at BAP, and I’ve never seen that many build sheets on a vehicle. Was it heading directly to a repair station?
Quite obviously, these dealers realize that the Challenger is too poor of a vehicle to actually drive as regular transportation (unlike the other, substantially higher dollar vehicles mentioned) and that it is just something to store as a ‘collectable’ in the hopes that a few decades from now, one will be able to recoup the amount of money they originally spent on it with sufficient interest to justify not having invested the money elsewhere.
What’s the most interesting thing of the entire situation is that original E-body Challengers aren’t the highest appreciating vehicles, not by a long shot. It’s their brethern, the E-body Barracuda (specifically the Hemi-Cuda) which commands the astronomical prices at auctions. Old Challengers are an also-ran in the collectable arena, more along the lines of old Mercury Cougars than the much more desirable (but mechanically identical) Ford Mustangs or old Firebirds versus Camaros.
5,000 and collectors item. Nope.
Sitting on the floor for sale. Nope.
If these were that hot of an item they would already be sold.
@ windswords,
You are right, Chrysler probably doesn’t like us because we actually tell the truth instead of putting out happy-feel-good propoganda. However, that doesn’t stop Kia from giving us vehicles despite our Rio review, or Cadillac (yes, Cadillac) from trying to set us up with a vehicle, or even Ford who gave us that Escape Hybrid.
We will see how “collectable” they are in a year when I could get one(not that I would) for half price used. This is a Dodge product with off a cliff depreciation. This doesn’t look smart on the dealers part, marking the product up so they barely sell any of them, especially since their dealers are ghost towns. I think I am going to take a ride down to our Dodge dealer just to see if they have one and if they are doing the same thing, I bet they are since they had a $5000 market adjustment on minivans 3 months after they came out. Oh well they wont be in business too much longer the way they are headed.
Our local Chrysler Dodge Jeep dealer is known in town for being a crook, and business must be great with the $11,000 quad cab Rams he is begging people to come buy.
So they are forcing potential customers to buy one without driving it…
Strange, I thought a testdrive to see what’s what was one of the few things that justify the existence of car dealerships.
Probably the only car I’d buy without driving it first would be an Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione.
Challenger…not so much.
This reminds me of the Mitsubishi dealer wanting to run a credit check on me before I test drove a base-model Evo X. It’s like “Mitsubishi, look. You really need to sell any car you can, and being obnoxious to prevent customers from driving cars isn’t the way to do that. Good luck.”
Oh and then the salesman was all over the BMW trying to “appraise” it as a trade-in. Which included a paint depth gauge where he remarked “oh it looks like this has been repainted due to the variations.” Then i borrowed the gauge from him, ran it over the panels of a new Outlander and the variation was much higher. Embarassing for a new car vs a 2001 BMW with 130,000+ miles on it.
Maybe they mean it will be a collectors item because Chrysler will not be around much longer to make them?
The problem is the dealers finally have a car they can make some money on. And they are going to ride the wave. Once the car settles down ina few months this will all stop and you will be able to buy one at invoice. It does sound like the dealers you went to do not know how to sell cars.
Mrb00st
That was my laugh for the day…thanks a bunch!
This thread has aroused my curiosity though. I’m gonna take a ride to the Dodge dealer near my house and 1) see if they have any Challengers 2) see if they’re doing the same thing (and take a test drive if they’re not) and 3) take a spin in the Caliber SRT-4. Need more validation that the Dodge is inferior to the MazdaSpeed3.
Should have told the dealer you were there to buy a Dodge Ram, but ONLY if they let you test drive a Challenger first, they probably would have bent over backwards just to unload the Ram.
Buying a car without a test drive is like buying a house without going inside. Come to think of it, it is also like marrying a woman without…..well, you get the idea….
@Jason & Mike:
It’s not the reviews per se, but the snarky attitude with anything to do with them. Yes some cars review bad and some good. But now we have a situ where even the 300 is dissed but it was lauded by TTAC itself just a few years ago. If I wasn’t at work I would give you the link. So don’t give me the “well we gave such n such a model a bad review and they still send us press cars” when it’s the only one out of five. Even when they start to make improvements (new interiors, Giles replacing Creed (thank God!)) or come out with a product that gets some honest to goodness buzz (Challenger) your view is steadfastly negative. They even hired some guy (and gal) from Toyota and you thought it was bad. Now I’m not flaming TTAC, if you want to do this go right ahead. But you bought this up in the posting not me, so don’t be surprised and hurt that your not getting press cars and being treated like other auto journals. I not saying I’m just sayin’.
Gee, yeah, that makes wonderful sense. We’ve got a hot product here that is bringing in customers to our once deserted shworooms; so, when they get here, we’ll treat them like scum.
Can I drive a Challenger? No….no.
Well can I touch one? No, actually I don’t want you to look at it anymore.
Stop looking at it? Yes, get out of here; you’ve already looked at it too much.
I’ll admit that Ford never let me test drive a Ford GT, but they were happy to BS about it for a while before asking if I’d like to test drive one of their new Saleen or Rousch Mustangs, which are a heck of a lot more expensive than any Challenger.
Mike: I’ve driven the more expensive Challenger SRT8 with the 6.1-liter 425 hp V8.
You ain’t missing a thing.
Just drive a Charger or 300C SRT-8. They’re pretty much the same thing, right?
Why not just drive a stock Charger and pretend you’re in a car that doesn’t have windows befitting a gun turret and that supposedly looks cool/retro? The stock Challenger and Charger are more or less the same car…
These tactics are tried-and-true in the minds of dealers. They would rather sell 3 of these cars at a 5K mark-up than sell 30 of them at a lower price, but that yields a higher overall profit (30 times $1,000 > 3 times $5000). That’s their prerogative.
And with tactics like that, they probably don’t sell enough to have one dedicated as a demo.
Meanwhile… could I interest you in this beautiful Sebring?
BARF.
Odds are the dealers will make more money off the cars having no miles on them than your article based on the car here. Now, if it were a local paper doing a “review” (let’s call it puff piece) followed by a full (fool?) page ad, then they’d be all over it. Unfortunately, all you can offer them is a history jaded reviews and, well, us. Sorry to bring you down. :-)
Yes, Chrysler going out of business will give even the V6 Challengers instant “collectible” status.
Yet another launch just ruined by the zombies that roam many of the car dealerships! When will this practice end? Why can’t I just configure a car on the manufacturer’s website, enter my credit card number, and click? (and the car goes off to production arriving in just a few weeks with the exact options I want)
The dealership experience almost always ruins one of my favorite things, buying cars. So sad.
Mike, these Dodge dealers have SO LITTLE to feel good about themselves these days, won’t you let them live?! :-)
I’m not suprised that they wouldn’t let customers sit in it – have you seen how cheap the interior is?
Reminds me of what Ford dealers did when the curent gen Mustangs was new. Poor souls that paid over sticker got burned big time.
I wouldn’t say it’s a Mustang competitor. A person can get a manual transmission in a Mustang V6, so it’s a bit less than a Mustang competitor – and a Mustang V6 can be had new for abotu $17K.
Anyone that thinks an automatic V6 Challenger is collectible needs to read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsive_hoarding
You expected anything less to result from harsh reviews? You guys have almost mocked your way out of being significant in the aspect of automotive reviews. Most other sites have already reviewed ZR1, and edmunds already released it’s performance figures for the CTS-V.
I can appreciate your stand on your reviewing process, but don’t cry about it when this is the result.
Anyone that thinks an automatic V6 Challenger is collectible needs to be diagnosed for Compulsive Hoarding.
“In fact, don’t even think about it.”
(calls customer at home)”You’re thinking about our car right now, aren’t you? Well, knock it off!”
Reminds me of the scene in This is Spinal Tap when Christopher Guest is showing his prized guitars to Rob Reiner.
I’d be willing to bet (with many others here) that the actual Challenger experience pales in comparison to the expectations. Interior, driving, etc have all been cost-reduced to soul-killing levels.
Much better to keep potential customers away from the things so that they can sell as many at huge markups to unsuspecting loyalists before word gets out.
That’s why we call them ’stealerships.’
If someone wants an attention getting RWD V6 Chrysler product they would do much better looking at one of the many low mileage certified pre-owned Crossfires instead of getting this. And the Crossfire can be had with stick.
What a Myopic, Insular group of knuckle-heads!
So let me get this, the Domestic claim they are building cars the offer up “excitement” that cant be had in your boring, Plain-Jane, FWD Rice-burner. I guess in their hearts they want to make some conquest sales, you know bring those that have strayed from righteous domestic path back home.
NOW WTF! So am I to believe that when I drive up to the Dodge dealer in my FWD Accord V6 and say “hey let me check out one of those Challangers”, Im going to be told to not even touch the preious peice of metal and no test drive because “it is a collectors car”!
NO DODGE DEALER IT IS A $26,000 sporty coupe, just like the damn accord I dorve up in!
And to think that some of you guys think we should bail these fools out with our tax dollars!
Ford dealers treated early retro bird inquirers similarly. It didn’t work out very well for them.
I kinda think the Miata and Beetle Convertible will be collectible in 20 years. If you’d asked the snobby classic-auto set in 1965 if the Mustang would one day be collectible, they would have laughed in your face. (In fact, I’ve read a lot of “Classic Comments” columns from Motor Trend of that era that did exactly that.)
But this is just stupid.
@ KorvetKeith,
They didn’t know I was writing for TTAC. I went in as a regular shopper, just like you would. So if they treat prospective shoppers like this, just imagine if I told them who I worked for!
buddy of mine bought a saturn, hated it. Went to test drive a COBALT SS and was refused. Tried 3 dealers.
Its. a. cobalt.
I was in an Audi dealership once. Just looking at the A6, could not even come close to being able to afford it. A salesman asked me if I liked it, asked what I made in a year, said that he was sure they could work out an affordable lease for me and then offered me a test drive to try and convince me that I could afford the car that was 3 times out of my price range.
I’d pay markup for a Challenger before I’d pay one on something like a Fit.
Also, the car is still very new and not very common. The dealer that told you customers don’t want miles on them is correct. If I was in the market I would want zero miles on it.
I purchased my GTO that way fresh off the truck in 2006 (under MSRP as dealers couldn’t move them by then) and again in July with the G8. Scored another the dealer didn’t touch and that wasn’t test driven at all with single digit miles on it.
When Challengers become in stock like the Mustang and readily available all of this will disappear, just as it has everytime before whenenever ANY brand gets something hot on it’s lots.
Not to state the obvious, but if you were Chrysler, would you let TTAC drive a press car? I mean, why would Chrysler want anyone telling the TRUTH about its cars.
I wouldn’t even let Car & Driver drive one, at least not until I’d ensured its content by signing up for the next 6 months worth of ads.