Comments on: “Don’t let invasive biofuel crops attack your country” http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/ The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news. Sun, 22 Nov 2009 19:09:02 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Engineer http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-443342 Engineer Wed, 21 May 2008 23:21:58 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-443342 4. The second plant has been at <a href="http://www.eere.energy.gov/golden/PDFs/ReadingRoom/Weld_County_EA/Appendix_B.pdf" rel="nofollow">the planning stage since 2004</a>. Can you guess what's holding them up? Summary: Overpromised and underdelivered as often discussed on this site... 4. The second plant has been at the planning stage since 2004. Can you guess what’s holding them up?

Summary: Overpromised and underdelivered as often discussed on this site…

]]> By: Engineer http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-443341 Engineer Wed, 21 May 2008 23:21:20 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-443341 3. What is <a href="http://news.aol.com/story/_a/missouri-preparing-more-sensitive-odor/n20080426152209990020" rel="nofollow">that fowl odor</a>? 3. What is that fowl odor?

]]> By: Engineer http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-443322 Engineer Wed, 21 May 2008 23:20:23 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-443322 2. The process only converts <a href="http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2007/04/tdp-what-went-wrong.html" rel="nofollow">lipids (fats and oils) and some amino acids (from protein) into fuel</a>. Cellulose? Nyet. Don't take my word for it, read <a href="http://ergosphere.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/tdp_0405se05adams.pdf" rel="nofollow">CWT's own presentation</a>. 2. The process only converts lipids (fats and oils) and some amino acids (from protein) into fuel. Cellulose? Nyet. Don’t take my word for it, read CWT’s own presentation.

]]> By: Engineer http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-443311 Engineer Wed, 21 May 2008 23:19:14 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-443311 Blowfish, I wouldn't hold my breath. The facts are as follows: 1. "We know how much this will cost. We can make oil for $15/bbl." <a href="http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2007/04/tdp-when-hype-meets-reality.html" rel="nofollow">Or maybe not</a>. Blowfish,
I wouldn’t hold my breath. The facts are as follows:
1. “We know how much this will cost. We can make oil for $15/bbl.” Or maybe not.

]]> By: Engineer http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-443282 Engineer Wed, 21 May 2008 23:17:02 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-443282 Blowfish, I wouldn't hold my breath. The facts are as follows: 1. "We know how much this will cost. We can make oil for $15/bbl." <a href="http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2007/04/tdp-when-hype-meets-reality.html" rel="nofollow">Or maybe not</a>. 2. The process only converts <a href="http://i-r-squared.blogspot.com/2007/04/tdp-what-went-wrong.html" rel="nofollow">lipids (fats and oils) and some amino acids (from protein) into fuel</a>. Cellulose? Nyet. Don't take my word for it, read <a href="http://ergosphere.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/tdp_0405se05adams.pdf" rel="nofollow">CWT's own presentation</a>. 3. What is <a href="http://news.aol.com/story/_a/missouri-preparing-more-sensitive-odor/n20080426152209990020" rel="nofollow">that fowl odor</a>? 4. The second plant has been at <a href="http://www.eere.energy.gov/golden/PDFs/ReadingRoom/Weld_County_EA/Appendix_B.pdf" rel="nofollow">the planning stage since 2004</a>. Can you guess what's holding them up? Summary: Overpromised and underdelivered as often discussed on this site... Blowfish,
I wouldn’t hold my breath. The facts are as follows:
1. “We know how much this will cost. We can make oil for $15/bbl.” Or maybe not.
2. The process only converts lipids (fats and oils) and some amino acids (from protein) into fuel. Cellulose? Nyet. Don’t take my word for it, read CWT’s own presentation.
3. What is that fowl odor?
4. The second plant has been at the planning stage since 2004. Can you guess what’s holding them up?

Summary: Overpromised and underdelivered as often discussed on this site…

]]> By: blowfish http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-442901 blowfish Wed, 21 May 2008 21:37:14 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-442901 http://www.changingworldtech.com/who/index.asp these folks are dong it here in US of A. Givng some more time things should be rolling. http://www.changingworldtech.com/who/index.asp
these folks are dong it here in US of A.

Givng some more time things should be rolling.

]]> By: Engineer http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-442192 Engineer Wed, 21 May 2008 19:32:08 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-442192 <i>sensible biofuel strategy: Oxymoron.</i> Close, RF, but not quite that bad. Workable biofuel strategy: WASTE->FUEL. As in trash to fuel. Two plants worth taking note of: 1. Choren's <a href="http://www.choren.com/en/energy_for_all/beta_plant/" rel="nofollow">recently completed plant in Freiberg</a>, Germany, that will convert forestry waste into <i>green</i> dielsel (not bio-BS). 2. <a href="http://www.rangefuels.com/our-first-plant" rel="nofollow">Range Fuels plant in GA</a>, that will convert forestry waste into alcohols. Range Fuels likes to pretend it is a cellulosic ethanol plant, but there are some key differences, such as no fermentation or distillation, and the potential to produce butanol, rather than ethanol (which should only be used internally). Long term: once the bulk of our considerable waste is being converted into fuel, we will understand the process well enough to answer the question: Does <b>any</b> energy crop make sense? Stay tuned. sensible biofuel strategy: Oxymoron.
Close, RF, but not quite that bad.

Workable biofuel strategy: WASTE->FUEL. As in trash to fuel. Two plants worth taking note of:
1. Choren’s recently completed plant in Freiberg, Germany, that will convert forestry waste into green dielsel (not bio-BS).
2. Range Fuels plant in GA, that will convert forestry waste into alcohols. Range Fuels likes to pretend it is a cellulosic ethanol plant, but there are some key differences, such as no fermentation or distillation, and the potential to produce butanol, rather than ethanol (which should only be used internally).

Long term: once the bulk of our considerable waste is being converted into fuel, we will understand the process well enough to answer the question: Does any energy crop make sense? Stay tuned.

]]> By: joe_thousandaire http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-441881 joe_thousandaire Wed, 21 May 2008 18:34:00 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-441881 Great article, I love when people nit-pick a possible solution to a problem to the point of near absurdity without offering any alternative solution themselves. Its also a plus whenever you can source an irreproachable paragon of objective journalism like the NY times. Great article, I love when people nit-pick a possible solution to a problem to the point of near absurdity without offering any alternative solution themselves. Its also a plus whenever you can source an irreproachable paragon of objective journalism like the NY times.

]]> By: joeaverage http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-441402 joeaverage Wed, 21 May 2008 17:03:25 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-441402 Gasoline is obsolete for alot of us only we haven't noticed yet. Gasoline is obsolete for alot of us only we haven’t noticed yet.

]]> By: Raskolnikov http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-441381 Raskolnikov Wed, 21 May 2008 16:57:38 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-441381 It's out there, and it will happen when the market decides to stop paying too much for our crack (oil) addiction. We just can't count on the goverment to administer it for us. In a perfect world, I'd fill up my car with those plastic grocery bags I have clogging my pantry. But I'd settle for ethanol. It’s out there, and it will happen when the market decides to stop paying too much for our crack (oil) addiction. We just can’t count on the goverment to administer it for us.

In a perfect world, I’d fill up my car with those plastic grocery bags I have clogging my pantry. But I’d settle for ethanol.

]]> By: Robert Farago http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-441332 Robert Farago Wed, 21 May 2008 16:48:45 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-441332 <em>Raskolnikov : sensible biofuel strategy</em> Oxymoron. (Not you, the phrase.) Raskolnikov :

sensible biofuel strategy

Oxymoron. (Not you, the phrase.)

]]> By: Hank http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-441331 Hank Wed, 21 May 2008 16:44:45 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-441331 Why don't we all just start sending out lawn clippings to the ethanol folk instead of filling 20-40% of our landfills with cut grass? It could be kind of like the WWII grease for bombs action. Why don’t we all just start sending out lawn clippings to the ethanol folk instead of filling 20-40% of our landfills with cut grass? It could be kind of like the WWII grease for bombs action.

]]> By: Raskolnikov http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-441311 Raskolnikov Wed, 21 May 2008 16:42:41 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-441311 I bet I could sell you that Le Car you've always wanted! True, we can do many things to reduce our dependence on foreign oil (hybrids, other alt fuel cars, higher mileage cars, walking, public transport, drilling in Alaska, bicycles, scooters, horses, telecommuting, etc..) Sorry, but I don't have the time to comment on all these here. Don't you agree a sensible biofuel strategy should be included? Ideally we'd prefer cellulosic ethanol, which requires much less input of fossil fuel to produce, but currently demand and infrastructure should be built up via the corn-based stuff. Corn is a less than stellar stock, but you have to start somewhere, right? I bet I could sell you that Le Car you’ve always wanted!

True, we can do many things to reduce our dependence on foreign oil (hybrids, other alt fuel cars, higher mileage cars, walking, public transport, drilling in Alaska, bicycles, scooters, horses, telecommuting, etc..) Sorry, but I don’t have the time to comment on all these here. Don’t you agree a sensible biofuel strategy should be included? Ideally we’d prefer cellulosic ethanol, which requires much less input of fossil fuel to produce, but currently demand and infrastructure should be built up via the corn-based stuff. Corn is a less than stellar stock, but you have to start somewhere, right?

]]> By: Robert Farago http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-441091 Robert Farago Wed, 21 May 2008 15:41:11 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-441091 <p><em>Raskolikov:</em></p> <p><em>I’d rather deal with some weeds and get my fuel from the farmer (corn, switchgrass, whatever) down the road than keep buying liquid Satan from people that want to kill us.</em></p> <p>You should be a car salesman. That's what a BMW dealer called a “false option set.” In other words, by focusing on two options, where one is clearly preferable, you ignore and exclude all other options. “Do you want this brand new 3-Series or do you want to wait until your POS falls apart?”</p> <p>We could do a LOT of things to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Most if not all of which are preferable to this ridiculous, fundamentally misguided ethanol strategy.</p>

Raskolikov:

I’d rather deal with some weeds and get my fuel from the farmer (corn, switchgrass, whatever) down the road than keep buying liquid Satan from people that want to kill us.

You should be a car salesman. That's what a BMW dealer called a “false option set.” In other words, by focusing on two options, where one is clearly preferable, you ignore and exclude all other options. “Do you want this brand new 3-Series or do you want to wait until your POS falls apart?”

We could do a LOT of things to reduce our dependence on foreign oil. Most if not all of which are preferable to this ridiculous, fundamentally misguided ethanol strategy.

]]> By: Raskolnikov http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-441021 Raskolnikov Wed, 21 May 2008 15:35:21 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-441021 So would everyone rather keep sending their $ to Saudi Arabia and Venezuela? I'd rather deal with some weeds and get my fuel from the farmer (corn, switchgrass, whatever) down the road than keep buying liquid Satan from people that want to kill us. So would everyone rather keep sending their $ to Saudi Arabia and Venezuela?

I’d rather deal with some weeds and get my fuel from the farmer (corn, switchgrass, whatever) down the road than keep buying liquid Satan from people that want to kill us.

]]> By: NeonCat93 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-440681 NeonCat93 Wed, 21 May 2008 14:01:41 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-440681 If kudzu turned out to be good for biofuel the United States might just achieve energy independence. Ooh, we could porkbarrel it so that tobacco farmers could grow it instead! Everybody (except smokers, but it is okay to hate on them, and taxpayers) wins! If kudzu turned out to be good for biofuel the United States might just achieve energy independence. Ooh, we could porkbarrel it so that tobacco farmers could grow it instead! Everybody (except smokers, but it is okay to hate on them, and taxpayers) wins!

]]> By: N85523 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-440571 N85523 Wed, 21 May 2008 13:48:21 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-440571 These types of "crops" would still be displacing former food crops like wheat. America shouldn't have to import wheat. These types of “crops” would still be displacing former food crops like wheat. America shouldn’t have to import wheat.

]]> By: AJ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-440391 AJ Wed, 21 May 2008 13:18:17 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-440391 Too bad crab grass (another fine invasive species that has had unintended consequences) can't be used for bio-fuel, as my neighbors would be rich! Too bad crab grass (another fine invasive species that has had unintended consequences) can’t be used for bio-fuel, as my neighbors would be rich!

]]> By: Qwerty http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-440371 Qwerty Wed, 21 May 2008 13:16:42 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-440371 I cannot wait for the time regular Joes can receive a fat subsidy for letting their lawns go to pot with weeds. Agri-welfare should not only be for farmers. :-) I cannot wait for the time regular Joes can receive a fat subsidy for letting their lawns go to pot with weeds. Agri-welfare should not only be for farmers. :-)

]]> By: bunkie http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-440312 bunkie Wed, 21 May 2008 13:10:34 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-440312 <i>“we won’t be snatching food out of peoples’ mouths to run our cars” - does improve, though. Yeah. Now it will be "The invasive plants are invading the land on which the food was formerly grown".</i> “we won’t be snatching food out of peoples’ mouths to run our cars” – does improve, though.

Yeah. Now it will be “The invasive plants are invading the land on which the food was formerly grown”.

]]> By: ash78 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-440241 ash78 Wed, 21 May 2008 12:40:01 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-440241 Great kudzu pic. Reminds me of the slopey woods behind my house. Great kudzu pic. Reminds me of the slopey woods behind my house.

]]> By: Stein X Leikanger http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/comment-page-1/#comment-440061 Stein X Leikanger Wed, 21 May 2008 11:59:52 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/don%e2%80%99t-let-invasive-biofuel-crops-attack-your-country/#comment-440061 The energy equation is no better for 2nd generation than it is for first generation. The polemical situation - "we won't be snatching food out of peoples' mouths to run our cars" - does improve, though. And the ability to channel subsidies to farmers remains constant. The energy equation is no better for 2nd generation than it is for first generation. The polemical situation – “we won’t be snatching food out of peoples’ mouths to run our cars” – does improve, though.

And the ability to channel subsidies to farmers remains constant.

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