My aircooled Beetles made VERY good heat if the system was intact. Yes, it was rpm dependent but it was enough at all speeds to roast my sneakers. The problem was that the flappers leaked a little in the summer so I had heat then too. The flappers were a little TOO low tech in that regard.

My aircooled ‘78 VW Westfalia van has never made any really hot heat and the fan never moved enough air to be really useful. Remember keeping it all intact? The U-tubes int he exhaust had a thin 2nd layer of sheetmetal that insulated the pipes but exposed to any weather or salt they disappeared quick. That was the key to keeping the heat really hot b/c the system just wasn’t designed to deliver any real volume. I suspect too much volume and the heat temps (and engine temps) begin to fall. I drove my friend’s ‘78 VW Rivera camper with all the same van bits and her pipes are intact (or were) and the van heated very well. Enough that on a freezing night cruising around town my wife asked me to turn the heat down.

I too like all of the old methods for cooling the car without a/c. Cowl vents, vent windows, etc. Prob lost to the cost cutters and to the folks tasked with cutting wind noise. Our aircooled VWs do a pretty good job of keeping us cool without a/c.

I lived in Italy in the early 90s and alot of Italian people I knew just didn’t see the point to having a/c when gas was $5 per gallon (and our gas was under a dollar). We also got used to the heat and the transistion from the cool car to the hot weather really was a shock compared to just enjoying the open windows breeze. Those good people also take siestas and thus try not to be out in their cars during mid-day heat. Finally alot of people were still driving 1L and 1.2L cars and really didn’t have alot of HP to spare to a compressor large enough to be effective at cooling a hot car. Most of my Italian friends welcomed my ‘84 VW Rabbit’s a/c but had no taste for artic temps when they would have to step out into 95 degree heat in a short time. Everything in moderation. Cool but not cold in the summer, warm not hot in the winter was how they heated/cooled their lives. I’ve got to say you can get used to it. I went without a/c this past summer in the Cabrio intentionally ($4 gas – remember?) and it isn’t bad. I didn’t put the top down when the sun was out though – just roasts me when it is July hot and the sun is bright.

However, recent GM models make it difficult to keep the AC off during demist or defog, resulting in less fogging but longer times to deice a windshield.

Japanese cars, all seemingly relying on Nippondenso systems, tend to pour air out the side vents irregardless of HVAC upper/lower air setting. In the cheaper cars, that air’s unheated, forcing you to manage air vents as well as heater controls. Higher-end cars add electro/pneumatic valves for control those ducts by HVAC controls.

BUT, my ‘05 F150, its A/C is terrible taking forever to cool down with East TN temps with it being checked out by the dealer twice. All F150’s typically have this, at least the 04-08 body style.

I miss vent windows too.

That certainly set Cadillac apart (also, it had a cruise control that was a round dial, you dialled in the speed you wanted to go and, there you went – 16 year-old driver, me, taking it out on the highway and rolling it from 65 to whatever the maximum was – whoopppee!)

But, today, what’s praiseworthy about Detroit’s HVAC? What sets it above or is it merely on par? Where’s the compelling feature?

And is the compelling feature standard or an extra cost option or part of an expensive package that makes it unattractive?

Back in ‘82, I’m fairly certain that the Cavalier included a rear-window defroster at no charge (the only option I believ my ‘82 had was FM radio). Within a couple years, I believe they’d abandoned that as a standard feature.

If I think about recent improvements, a friend had a Mitsubishi with oscillating vents. Who introduced left-and-right or front-and-back differential controls?

The new Prius will have a solar panel to help keep the car cool. That’s a nifty feature (might be too expensive to merit my serious consideration but I can see the utility of it).

I wish someone would introduce a button that says “de-ice the damned windshield, whatever it takes.”

If you include management of ice on glass as part of climate control, Chrysler had a nifty feature, a de-icer element at the bottom of the windshield, where the wipers park. But they abandoned that.

So, yes, Detroit led in HVAC. For a time. But, now? Like everything else they do, everybody else has caught up, as far as I can tell, and provides something that’s more reliable and more readily serviced.

Why buy an American-branded car? What does it have today?

I’ve got no complaints about the HVAC in my Toys.

But I had plenty of complaints about the HVAC in my Aerostar. The system was probably sized right but it had problems – a manufacturing defect of some sort – and it never worked properly. The fact that Ford never fixed it means that it just wasn’t ever praiseworthy. Well-engineered, in my book, also means that the inevitable problems can be found and fixed by reasonable service departments for a reasonable fee.

Which brings me back to the Toys… Mice got into the Sienna and packed the HVAC ducting full of pink fiberglass insulation (stolen from the house, I’m sure, I’m still trying to figure out where). Toyota was able to diagnose and repair the problem for $110. That strikes me as not outrageous. Replacing a blower motor on the aforementioned Ford was a $200 job – over 10 years ago (and they didn’t diagnose/fix the companion controls problem for that price).

The little 4-bangers in my Volvos were able to keep the car warm in MN winters. And the fanny-heaters in my ‘86 Volvo were a good thing that I’d not seen in mainstream American brands to that point. Their A/C worked quite well, too, without undue drag on the car in spite of the modest 114hp. I never had to replace a blower motor in that car, by the way, but I’m pretty sure it was sitting in plain view on the firewall, easily removed and replaced with a socket wrench in 10 minutes.

Come to think of it, quality/reliability/longevity of parts would be an issue for a well-engineered system, wouldn’t it? Until the Aerostar, it never crossed my mind that blower motors could go bad. The Volvos were on their original blowers when they were totalled or sold at 18, 16 and 16 years of age.

Steven Lang: “Personally, I always liked the front window vents that used to be in domestics.

You could just open a little window, either by hand or power, and get enough clean air and circulation into your car without even using the HVAC system.”

Seems like that, in and of itself, would be an interesting topic. I think it began in 1968 when GM got rid of vent windows on the f-body Camaro/Firebird (which had been introduced just the year prior). A scant two years later, they were gone from virtually every new domestic, save the carry-over 1970 Chrysler intermediates. The next year, they were gone from them, too. I think Ford was the lone holdout from that point on, still having the option available on some full-size cars, all the way up to around 1991. After that point, you could only get vent windows on pickup trucks. But, today, I know of no new vehicles that offer front vent windows (and I don’t mean the erzatz ‘fake’ vent windows which do not open and are there for structural rigidity).

One of the main reasons for the elimination of vent windows was how styling trends began to dictate that side glass began to have a more severe ‘roll’ into the roof instead of the previous flat side glass. Having more of a curve meant it would be difficult (if not impossible) to have vent windows.

Besides the elimination of the front window vents, the other HVAC area I’d like to know about has to do with the development of cowl vents. I’ve noticed they’re missing on fifties’ GM vehicles (mainly the shoebox ‘55-’57 Chevrolet). Instead of the air being ducted through the cowl, it looks like there are long, flexible ductwork that extend from the firewall all the way to the grill.

None of the three 70-something Chevys that preceded it would hold R-12 long enough to find out how well they might have cooled, the GTI needed a pound when I bought in in ‘96, it held enough to work until it left in ‘02.

The A/C on some cars and trucks is engineered to come on when the defroster is activated to de-humidify the air, dramatically increasing defrosting performance. When it is not automatic, you may find a manual A/C button has been provided.

It seems to be hit and miss which do it automatically and which make you do it manually.

Modern cars still have a valve that shuts off hot coolant flow into the heater core, at least all the ones I know of. However, the only time all flow is cut off is when in max A/C or “off.” At all other times, coolant is available to temper the incoming air if desired…

GM cars always had killer HVAC. The Frigidiare compressor stood front and center in my dad’s ‘72 Eldorado and that puppy could cause frostbite! My first car, a ‘72 Fury, also had great A/C but all Chrysler products from that era would overheat in heavy traffic with the A/C. Not so with the GM stuff. No corrosion holes in the radiator either, which seemed to affect all early ’70’s Chrysler products on a three year rotating schedule…anybody know why?

I shipped the car to the mainland and drove it to MI in August. I knew it wouldn’t be long before I’d need a heater. I was lucky enough to find a ‘67 Rambler in a junk yard, and for about $40 I got the whole heater system, including pull knobs, cables, ducts, blower box. I did buy new heater hoses.

I never understood Rambler’s “Weather Eye”. It was a conventional heating system in everyway. Still, the “Weather Eye” lettering was always a good conversation starter.

I shipped the car to the mainland and drove it to MI in August. I knew it wouldn’t be long before I’d need a heater. I was lucky enough to find a ‘67 Rambler in a junk yard, and for about $40 I got the whole heater system, including pull knobs, cables, ducts, blower box. I did buy new heater hoses.

GM’s 1969 Chevrolet Impala’s AC did break down. Anecdotal, because it was my dad’s car.

But we spend many a summer driving without AC or defroster in that car, and we finally got rid of it sometime around 1990, I think. The car itself was mostly dependable, and maybe the AC could have been fixed.

The ‘73 Bonneville had good AC; we drove though the desert in it.

That’s what MAX A/C is.

Years ago my buddy and I recharged my 1990 Taurus with a full shot of ozone depleating R-12. Damn that thing was cold. Got the interior down to 40 degrees on a 75-80 degree day.

My Honda doesn’t have near the A/C strength, but the heater is very solid. The 4cyl has kept me warm on -20F Minnesota winter days. Much better than the GM garbage is shares a garage with.

I’ve also found Ford trucks to have very competent HVAC systems.

As for heated seats, a co-workers Passat had a heated seat burn through the upholstery. I’m not sure if I blame the crappy German electronics or the stupid dial that doesn’t reset when you shut off the car. She drove around with it on all the time…until the seat cover required replacing.

I could’ve swore Ford and GM had similar operations, but maybe I’m wrong.

Philco = Ford
Frigidaire = GM
Kelvinator = AMC

The light inside our Kelvinator fridge was identical to the dome light in our Rambler.

I agree on heating, but that old twin cylinder ac compressor in my 60s-70s Mopars could about frost the windows.

“I think GM lost its title to king of HVAC mountain when Mercedes began blowing air through the seat cushions onto the backsides of the well-heeled (or well-driven)

Not true. The cooled seat, in modern cars, is the invention of Amerigon Corp, of Michigan.”

Cool! (funny pun)

But your point does not make mine untrue. My assertion is that MB blew air on butts before GM. Your assertion is that the mechanism used was in vented in ‘Merica.

I just spent ten minutes down memory lane…and my parents’ cars (all GM) all had fantastic HVAC systems.

1980-something Beauville Van (with side-vent windows)
1986 Oldsmobile 88
1989 Chevy Conversion Van
1991 Chevy Safari Conversion Van
1993 Chevy Lumina
1995 Chevy Astro
and every Impala’bu that my Mom has had since.

Although my ford Escort and Probe GT — not quite ‘world class’, but competent. Fine.

I don’t believe Crysler/Dodge is in the same league.

In the 1960s, AMC was a big promoter of automotive air conditioning. If I recall correctly, a fairly high percentage of Rambler/AMC models were ordered with air conditioning during those years. The 1968 AMC Ambassador was the one of the first (if not THE first) regular wheelbase production cars to include factory air conditioning as standard equipment.

“Pet Peeve: One thing I’ve always disliked about many domestic HVACs has been the lack of a simple recirculation button.”

Chryslers at least int he 80’s thru early 90’s had a pushbutton HVAC system. You could tell it where you wanted the air/heat to go: vent, floor, or both. And it had a button for recirculation, you just had to push it in to engage, push it again to turn it off.

npbheights:

“The GM A-6 compressor was used by GM from the 50’s to the 70’s. The thing is awesome. It’s HUGE! It makes something 27,500 btu’s of cooling power. Enough to cool a small house.”

I read that the 93 LH cars (Intrepid/Concord/Vision) had a AC compressor that could cool a 1,200 sq ft house. I think it was made by Denso (Japanese supplier). Because the LH’s had a larger greenhouse than most cars at the time it needed it.

My Ford ZX2 commuter car has a very good AC (R-134). Even with a black interior in FL it cools the car down very quick.

My only US car with disappointing cooling was a 94 Ford Club Wagon. First year of R-134, which I later learned was used in a system designed for the more efficient R-12. Air only about 50 degrees at the vent on a hot day in city driving (though it worked great at highway speeds with higher compressor speed and more air thru the condenser.)

Related topic I have not seen mentioned yet: Does anybody else miss the old fashoned heater control valve? You remember, the one that shut the hot water off before it got to the heater core? All of my 60s cars had fresh air cowl vents which did a good job of keeping you comfy even without ac, certainly till the temps passed 85. Since the 70s, the direct fresh air is gone. It runs thru the hvac system that cannot turn off the hot water. Once the car warms up, radiant heat from the heater core heats the “vent” air, making it worse than no vent air at all. You could live without ac with the old systems, but it is about mandatory with the newer ones.

Any comments on heated seats? I have owned 3 new VWs and Audis over the last 9 years, all of which have had the best heated seats ever. My wife’s Passat seat heat beats my BMW 5 series seats any cold day, not even close. But I do have that nice heated steering wheel – it sounds like a ridiculous gimmick, but it is really nice on a super cold day.