The Phaeton share almost everything with the Bentley Continental and they were built side by side in the VW glass factory in Dresden until Bentley production was moved to the UK.

Not only are the platform the same, the W12 is the same engine (except for the 2 turbos) and the V8 uses the Audi 4.2. In Europe it also has the same brakes as the Bentley. See them parked next to each other and you also see that they share the same interior gimmicks and design of center console, steering wheel etc… It is almost surprising the VW hardly saved any feature for the Bentley like the wood panes covering the vents and the breathing dash, the 4 zone climate etc.

All suspension, undercarriage is the same, all electronics in the same positions etc

I don’t think the VW dealerships know much so service it at the Bentley shop instead, expensive, yes, but smile when you are driving a 160 car for much less, 04s available from 20k now…

The car is better than all the competition including the A8, or it is as good as the Bentley :-)

The Phaeton is in a class of its own and by the way, I drive an A8, great car and more sporty than the Phaeton but my A8 is not a disguised Bentley

Exactly the detail I was hoping to receive, minus the extreme rarity of the of that particular model and make. All the same, thank you.

A person might have to consider travelling to find the top car, and import it back to the U.S…, or would all the european models be right hand-drive? Are there other considerations that make importing a phaeton less realistic?

And, another thought that occurs, are there ‘new’ models in the making that will be worth the wait? (Tummy, your comments about ‘downsizing’ are noted above)

The phaeton convertible looks sweet.

Again, thank you for the detailed response.

If your question is, “What Phaeton will bring a record price on the Barret Jackson auction block in 2035?”, no doubt it will be the 2006 model W12 with the 4 seat option package.

In the US, here’s how the Phaetons fall. In order of future value:

1) The custom ordered W12 with the four seat option, preferably a 2006 (the engine was increased to 444 HP that year).
2) Any other custom ordered W12 that differs from the pack.
3) Any W12 (the bulk of these are black with a tan interior, so different color schemes may add to the future “collectible” value).

–In the V8 cars, the option packages will add future value as well. (The W12 cars come already loaded)–

4) The custom ordered V8 with the four seat option.
5) Any other custom ordered V8 (the bulk of the base model V8 Phaetons are silver with a black interior, so different color schemes may add to the future “collectible” value).
6) The 2005 and 2006 V8 base model, since for 2005 the console is all wood (same as the W12) and standard equipment list added power-close doors and the newer spec suspension controller.
7) The 2004 V8 base model.

i guess i am asking for a car / vw/ phaeton expert to see into the future and say, “this is the W12, 6.0 with these options…” and tell me which the car and VW PHAETON enthusiast would have.

in other words which would Ferdinand P. be proudest of?

I’ve owned many of the cars that folks mentioned above. All of them have depreciated while I owned them. I accepted the fact that a car is a depreciating asset and purchased them anyway, because they met my needs to one degree or another.

I don’t expect to replace the Phaeton anytime soon. Nothing but a newer Phaeton even holds my interest at this point.

I drove Meredes Benz products for years because I believed they were the best engineered, safest, highest quality automobiles available to regular human beings.

I had worked my way up through the line, Starting all the way back in 1972 with a 220D. My last Mercedes was an S500, which I was totally satisfied with until I test drove the Phaeton.

The differece between the S500 and the Phaeton was staggering. Which is ironic, because I felt that the same could be said when comparing the S500 to most other cars. For example, I’d ride with various friends in their cars, then get back into the S500 and the difference was always very noticable.

Without a doubt, had the Phaeton not come along, I’d have replaced my S500 with a S550 and be hapily driving it.

My Phaeton still looks and drives like new. I just hope VW either brings them back to the US for 2009, or I can find a very low mile 2006 model to replace this one someday.

Phaetons aren’t for everybody. But for those who understand what a Phaeton really is, there is nothing quite like it. To this day, my heart still skips a beat every time I lay eyes on my Phaeton. It’s been a lot of years since a car ever did that for me.

I drove it up to 14,200 feet up Mt. Evans in Colorado and it was a total dream. The Audi Sport settings worked on the hairpins and I was in total heaven. One detail is that the oxygen sensor at 12000 feet set the engine light off but it corrected itself when I got back below the tree line. The extra weight gave it extra stability. The bigger Bentley wheels and beefier tires also helped. I love how no one knows what the heck it is. (until they notice the enormous size of the car) This is not a car for lightwieghts, I suppose this is why it gets criticized so much. Besides, I don’t necessarily want people to know I have money when I am driving around. World is way to dangerous.

One other thing, this is going to be a very rare car. Only 3000 were imported to the USA the first time around. Cars are not normally investments but go price the last model Toyota Supras (70k+ on the used market). I suspect the long wheel base original Phaetons will bottom out then start rising in price as they are totally unique. The new models coming in 2009 will not be any cheaper because the dollar is falling like a rock against the Euro.

The RRs and Bentleys are selling like hotcakes in China. China is now the #1 importer of RRs and Bentleys now surpassing the United States. Times they are a changing. Blame our leadership.

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=1837641

$25k will buy a lot of Lexus, Acura or Infiniti. Factor in total cost of ownership, and $35k of one of the above is still a wiser choice.

$25k will buy you a used ES, TL, or G35. Totally different league as an 04/05 Phaeton. You really should try test driving one before putting it down. We currently also own an Infiniti FX45, I don’t think the quality of the Infiniti is anything near that of the Phaeton. I also wouldn’t put Infinti dealers ahead of VW, the experience is really hit or miss. Two of my friends own G35s and said that they would not be going back to the brand due to bad dealer experiences.

If you compare the Phaeton to used LS400/LS430’s you will be looking at $20k’s for the Phaeton and $40’s for the Lexus. $20,000 goes a long way towards repairs.

$10,000 more than the Phaeton for a used japanese brand will still get you only a pretty common car and nothing unique or with as high tactile quality. The Phaeton really does feel bank vault solid and all the surfaces feel very luxurious. Again, an extended 7 yr warranty is only an additional $3k, and to get a similar warranty from the japanese brands would cost a lot more.

I don’t look at cars as an investment, and the wise choice is often boring or feels like just following the crowd. I feel that for a large used luxury car, nothing beats the Phaeton for the price. You should not expect to be able to get your money back at resale though.

Putting a high end vehicle into that support channel is beyond stupid.

What is the point of Audi, Lambo and Bentley if VW is going to take it’s brand into the same market?

What exactly has changed since the last failed attempt to market the Phaeton in the US?

Piech may had just woke up from Clinton administration.
Even RRs, Bentleys were getting hit pretty hard now.

Monday, I saw low mile A8 from 2004 for 24k recently on a boston area audi site. I was shocked, and tempted.

And also, VW said they’d decontent their car’s interiors and lower their prices so they could gain more sales in the US. I don’t have the link, but I swear Autoblog had a story on it!!

I wouldn’t say Audi is any better. Riverside Audi in NJ, got even the most basic things wrong on our TT. They under-inflated our tires by 15PSI which caused a flat, replacement tire, and bent rim (trip1), took 5 hours and mounted our directional replacement tires backwards (trip2 & 3), overfilled oil during an oil change which causes tons of black smoke out the back (trip 4).

That was one of the reasons why we traded it for a MB SLK.

Similar A8 cost around $10-15k more when I was looking a couple months back. The A8 lacks some of the goodies though, like 18 way electric massage air con comfort front seats, and power reclining massaging heated rear seats and dual pane insulated side windows. You can also get a 4 seat package for the phaeton, which has rear seats similar to the comfort front seats.

The A8 is lighter, better on gas, and “more fun” for a limo size car to drive. And of course the brand is better.

I was actually looking for a used Phaeton over the winter. VW offers an extended 7 year / 100,000 mile “VW RealDriver Extended Warranty” for approximately $2800. That’s not 7 years total, that’s your remaining factory warranty and an additional 7 years or an additional 100,000 mile warranty. The cost varies with the exact in service date of your car and the mileage. Of course shorter terms are available. Check out this thread:

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=3648920

They’re really great cars if you can stomach the huge fuel bill, aren’t into driving dynamics, and don’t care about the brand name. They feel incredibly solid, very comfortable, and have AWD for the winter. A true luxury cruiser.

This car has TONS of stealth/low-key appeal. I see them about as frequently as the A8, but the Lexus LS and Infiniti Q are absolutely everywhere. I guess it’s a statement that they appreciate the finer things, but don’t like showing off OR being lost in a sea of anonymity. It’s a very unique paradox.

Ditto that you’d better have a good mechanic with the amount of goodies packed into this thing.