Comments on: Comparo: BMW M3 vs. Audi RS4 vs. Cadillac CTS-V vs. Lexus IS-F vs. Mercedes C63 AMG

By: energetik9

energetik9 — Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:23:14 +0000

Not really sure how a Cadillac can edge out a M3. I would probably place the Cadillac 3rd or 4th in this comparo. Every single one of these car is loaded with technology and to ding the M3 for that is prejudiced.

By: justin.82

justin.82 — Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:02:03 +0000

The CTS-V blows! I smoked one the other day in my 09 M3 Sedan! It’s the driver that wins and the engineering of an automobile. Cadillac is made by GM – Need I say more! That comoany hasn’t had there shit together for 10 years running. I used to be a GM enthusiast to and it’s a damn shame! The CTS-V has awesome performance but it’ll break down in a few years because GM likes to cut corners. The others will still be running strong! Hell my buddy has a 1990 M3 still running strong! Any 1990 Cadillacs still around besides that shitty Allante! Good luck Cadillac! The CTS-V should have been in 5th place!

By: tauronmaikar

tauronmaikar — Sat, 07 Mar 2009 15:28:13 +0000

Look, a cadillac over an M3? At first I thought the reviewer needed to have his head examined. But when I read the review it was obvious yet another car journalist was suffering from BMW-related technophobia. I don’t see a problem at all. You drive the M3. After a while you settle on the steering, throttle, shifting, etc setting you like and that is it. Think of it as a step better than having to get out of your car and manually turn those dials on the suspension settings. Is doing it manually any better? I don’t think so.

As for the cadillac: I couldn’t care less for the interior or the amount of HP the engine generates. At the end of the day it is a freaking cadillac and it just has the wrong DNA. I am a pretty open minded driver and I would never seriously consider buying the caddy.

By: tbsaunders

tbsaunders — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 23:53:46 +0000

i want to agree with those who say the cts-v is in the wrong grouping here – pricewise, it fits with the smaller 3, c, is, and a4 cars. size-wise however, it is a 5, e, gs, and a6 car. i agree with the comparison on price, but this almost doesn’t give the cts-v the respect it deserves. it has soundly trounced the e60 m5 at that new monticello track in NY that all the car mags are ga-ga over, and i think it needs to be given the respect that it deserves – where’s the m5/rs6/e63/cst-v review? it should win that one on a price-point conversation alone. the fact that it can even compete with those cars that cost $30k more is amazing!

now if the stupid birmingham stealerships would just get one or two on their lots…

By: agenthex

agenthex — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:22:51 +0000

Too hard for the street & too soft for the track?!! That has never been my experience. I tracked the shit out of my E39 M5 and it did great! I wasn’t passing CZ06’s or anything but I was close enough to have fun and demolished many other “faster” cars because of my patience and skill. That’s what it’s about for me anyway:)

I guess personal preference plays a role, but on the relatively safe and open and clean expanse of a track, a light twitchy edgy car is more challenging which translates to fun. That same kind of car is just not fit for regular driving.

There is the appeal of driving the daily car fast, it’s just in the long run it’s not as rewarding I think. For example often after a few track blasts in a normal car, I find I’d prefer to spend that time karting since it’s a more pure driving experience.

By: Jack Baruth

Jack Baruth — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:05:59 +0000

@holmesmd:

Over the course of one lap, I agree with you: the M3 is just too quick. In fact, my fellow tester over at Speed:Sport:Life, Michael Mills, just ran one around MSR Houston .8 seconds faster than an R8!

I continue to believe that it simply doesn’t have enough brake, and that over the course of ten laps at the proverbial “full chat”, that would become very apparent. You have mail. :)

By: ccd1

ccd1 — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:45:36 +0000

SeattleBum:

I do speed at times, but not excessively, certainly never over 90 on public roads. These cars are designed to be stable at triple digit speeds. Cars like these are simply expensive overkills for travelling on public roads, at least in my neck of the woods.

I would assert that the 335i is a much better car than the M3 if you don’t go to the track (I would argue the 335i is the best overall car BMW makes). For travel on public roads, the M3 just doesn’t offer any advantages over its lower priced relative. The same could be said of the CTS versus the V or the S4 versus the RS4. Mostly what you lose with the less costly variants is exclusivity.

By: holmesmd

holmesmd — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:31:25 +0000

Thanks for the invite Jack. I would rather do Autobahn’s course here in Joliet, IL. I’m not really willing to head out to VIR for $1;) As I had mentioned my E39 M5 was destroyed while it was parked here in Chicago by 2 racing idiot cab drivers!!:( I would have been more than happy to dispatch you in the old gal but I am afraid she is no more! She was also a DINAN S2 car. That is why I bought my new M3 as a replacement. Your times are quite good given the car you are running but we did begin this discussion in the context of the M3 comparo. You must admit that with equal driver’s, the S5 is not at all at home on a track! The VIR Lightening Lap time of your S5 was > 10 secs behind the M3’s. The M3 was also driven as an AUTOMATIC!! I bet they could have shaved an additional 2-4 seconds off that time with a good driver in a 6 speed manual like mine. Here is my email:

holmesmd1@gmail.com
If you ever find yourself out this way. We could drive together at Autobahn. It’s a blast! I will start calling you Randolph Duke!! :) Great Movie!!:))

By: JJ

JJ — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:54:30 +0000

S5 & M3 with equal drivers…..M3 hands down!

Hell…S5 and 335i –> 335i hands down (well, on a track with corners).

335 vs S5/why BMWs are great

By: Jack Baruth

Jack Baruth — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:26:28 +0000

@holmesmd:

Pick your favorite 2009 date from the list:

http://www.trackdaze.com/

Bring your E39 M5 (you did say any of ‘em), stock or OEM replacement pads, 140-treadwear tires or higher, and I’ll bring my S5 the way they sold it to me.

Ten laps from a rolling start, cumulative time. Bring a crisp one-dollar bill so we can do this “Trading Places” style.

Just so you know where you’ll need to be, I run VIR’s Full Course at 2:31 in my Phaeton, and the S5 is, shall we say, a little faster.

By: holmesmd

holmesmd — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 05:04:24 +0000

Sure Jack. Anytime, anywhere as my busy schedule permits of course. Just please do not assert that you are going to best me in an Audi S5. The car is bloated and significantly underpowered compared to even a stock M3. You will have to be a substantially better driver than me to overcome that handicap. If your car is modded, I can certainly break out my M6 which has dyno’d at about 560hp:) Let me know man. Always good times! I am certainly used to chatter from the Audi boys but you are way off on this one man. S5 & M3 with equal drivers…..M3 hands down!

By: GiddyHitch

GiddyHitch — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 04:24:44 +0000

“With proper track use tire selection, the brakes on these cars really, truly suck. Which makes the geek age predicament of marketing street cars based on supposed track times even more silly.”

stuki,

I think someone who has a set of track tires will have a set of track pads as well to dramatically improve the brake performance of these cars.

By: Jack Baruth

Jack Baruth — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 04:00:53 +0000

@holmesmd:

“I will be happy to lap with him in any of my M’s and I promise that “I will be able to stay in the kitchen” ;)”

This sounds like the kind of promise that some people like to back with a friendly wager.

By: Bimmer

Bimmer — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:16:05 +0000

my Audi A8, not nearly as fast, but a lot more comfortable and I doubt you can beat me from Atlanta to New York by much unless you really throw caution to the wind.
BMW 335d will easily beat you by quite some time… by making less stops for fuel and you don’t even need to throw caution in the wind. Also, I doubt that it would be that much less comfortable then A8.

By: holmesmd

holmesmd — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:32:42 +0000

By: agenthex

agenthex — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:25:28 +0000

Where these cars shine is on the street; specifically on lightly policed, fast secondaries. LA to SF ‘down the middle’ (between the 5 & 101), or LA to Vegas via 29 Palms or Death Valley (weekdays off season), for those in SoCal. With freeways at congestion levels turning even the most patient suicidal, cars that allows reasonable A to B times while avoiding them, can be well worth it. And here the M3 stomps all over the 335, despite having no real advantages in town or on freeways.

Uh, these types of cars can reach and often sustain triple digit speeds easily on those types of roads, which is why they’re not really usable in the real world. A real sports car would be far more engaging at a realistic speed.

There’s also a predicament these cars get into where they’re too hard for the street but too soft for track.

By: holmesmd

holmesmd — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:17:05 +0000

I am sorry guys but I just do not agree! I have driven my M5 for 88,000 miles and every one of them was a joy! That is what is so unique about M! They can be very reasonable daily drivers while at the same time, outrageous performers. No one in any of my cars has complained about a stiff ride or uncomfortable experience as a passenger in my cars! The new ones are completely configurable! Is the 335 a great car and more than enough for 99% of drivers on the road? Hell yes! I agree that the base line models are fine. The performance models are better and even more versatile and enjoyable! It’s like having 2 cars. One you can take your kids to school in and 1 you can take to the track to hot lap. What’s wrong with that for those of us who chose to afford ourselves this option? Maz., do you really think a 335 stock is MORE fun than an M3? My friend I have driven both and though I have all the respect in the world for the 335, the answer is definitively..NO!! M cars are more versatile, exclusive, and fun! These cars are only impractical if you can’t or choose not to afford them. I don’t agree with the harsh ride or high noise level description. If these things are important, you should drive a Camry or Lexus ES 350! Drivers considering these cars do not care about these things as much but even still, recognize that they are very comfortable performers. My M3 is every bit as comfortable as the 335 I drove for 2 weeks as a loaner. It uses more fuel but the joy of the drive is more than worth it:)

By: ccd1

ccd1 — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:24:22 +0000

Mazdarati has a point. On public road at speeds that would not get you locked up immediately, all of these cars are overkill. The less powerful versions of these cars or a completely diffrent (and less costly) set of cars are far more enjoyable. At legal speeds, I am a big fan of light cars such as the Mini or anything Lotus makes. Light cars tend not to need to be driven at excessive speeds to be enjoyed.

By: Mazdarati

Mazdarati — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:05:37 +0000

No doubt these are all ultra high performance cars but are not well suited for everyday use, the harsh ride, high noise levels and expense make them impractical. In each case the “lesser” versions like the IS 350, S4, 335i, CTS and C350 all provide plenty of performance for the road in a less expensive, easier to use, more comfortable, more luxurious package. Maybe I’m just getting old, but I’ll stick with my Audi A8, not nearly as fast, but a lot more comfortable and I doubt you can beat me from Atlanta to New York by much unless you really throw caution to the wind.

By: holmesmd

holmesmd — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:56:29 +0000

forgot to discuss the author’s disdain for gadgetry. The M3 has a great blend of technology. If I hear 1 more person bitch about iDrive?! What none of the band wagon critics ever mention is that 99% of the functions of the entire car are set ONCE. I push 1-3 buttons ever to have the care perform and do exactly what I say. If you are really lazy or dense, you can just use voice commands. What’s wrong with having an integrated iphone/ipod, nav, & satellite radio in an uber performing sedan?! I just don’t get it? If you want a Flintstone mobile, build a kit car or drive an Ariel Atom!:) When I was driving down a straight at Road America listening to One from Metallica going 190, it pretty much is the best feeling in the world. Technology is only a problem if the DRIVER lets it interfere with the performance & capabilities of the car!:)

By: holmesmd

holmesmd — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:34:47 +0000

I agree with your 5-3. I would swap 2 &1. Whoever says that M’s are under-braked is exaggerating at least. I have driven M’s for 10 yrs. I currently own an E63M6, E39 M5, E90 M3. I drive my cars hard and believe they are some of the finest production cars in the world…hands down. The guy who drives the bloated wobbly Audi S5 really needs to get a grip. I will be happy to lap with him in any of my M’s and I promise that “I will be able to stay in the kitchen” ;) Most folks that track their cars mod them slightly anyway so if all my M3 would need is a brake up grade & some Pilot Cups then big deal?! As a matter of fact, my manual M3 would easily finish first among the cars being discussed in most track settings. Car & Driver nor any of the other car mags have been critical of M3’s brakes. Please review the results of the most recent Lightening Lap at VIR. The M3 is a super car for the street just like the CZ07. The Audi S5 is underpowered and has all wheel drive! Anyone who knows anything about tracking a car would never choose the S5. I trust that’s why you are trashing the M3’s brakes…because you don’t know what you are talking about. Trust me when I tell you, the new M3 is like the GT-R M3 was years ago. A V8 monster that dominates all but the most advanced and expensive super cars. The CTS-V is a great car but I agree it is too little and too late. They also don’t have the pedigree or reliability for me to trust them with my money for an extended period of time. It sounds like a lot of you guys have serious misconceptions about the new M3. I did as well, until I drove one and bought it 5 minutes after I got out of the seat!;) All are very good cars but I believe time will show as always that there is only one M.

By: SeattleBum

SeattleBum — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:04:50 +0000

ccd1 :
February 23rd, 2009 at 1:23 pm
As a group, I don’t get these cars. Last time I checked, the speed limits in the US (at least in the NE corridor) vary between 55 and 65 mph. There are simply cheaper cars that are as fun or more fun to drive at the limit or at least reasonably close to it.
———————
I understand what you’re saying about purchasing a fun car for thousands less. Heck, the Cobalt SS has won so many comparos its really a wonder why they aren’t more popular. But how can you make a statement about speed limits and then in the very next sentence say you can buy a cheaper car to explore the ‘limit’? Sounds like you’re speeding in either scenario so why not do so in a badass luxury sports car?

By: 8rings

8rings — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:13:54 +0000

I don’t get these cars. Last time I checked, the speed limits in the US (at least in the NE corridor) vary between 55 and 65 mph.

Oh give me a break, somewhere on this site is a Camry review you can read.

By: HtownHeff

HtownHeff — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:05:08 +0000

@ccd1:

I had seen 70mph speed limits in Central California, but then, crossing West Texas on I-10, the wondrous sight of 80mph speed limit signs graced my eyes.

Too bad their is nary a curve for 200 miles around here.

By: Mike Solowiow

Mike Solowiow — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:32:32 +0000

@ ToddL,

The ratings still haven’t changed. The M3 is definitely the better car over the RS4, but I would still buy the RS4 over the M3, despite the inferiority, I like it better for some arcane reason that I like Audis… I have one from 1978, and an original Quattro. I’ve owned 6 of them, but I’m not going to let my bias influence my review. That would be Car and Driver. Hence, M3 is better than the RS4.