“Fiat cars are another story, but with Chrysler at the bottom of the reliability studies,…”

You mean VW at the bottom of reliability studies. Chrysler is FAR from the bottom. You are referring to Consumer Reports which has been shown to be both inaccurate and subjective in their ranking (else Toyota would not be as well ranked as it is). JD Powers shows a much different result when it comes to reliability. The Chrysler brand itself was shown to have more reliability than Mercedes in the latest JD Power 3 year study. Just like they were in 1998 when Daimler took them over. And historically Chrysler reliability has been about even with Nissan, sometimes a little better, sometimes a little worse, and I don’t see people worrying about reliability issues with Nissan.

Still worth it.

It’s based on a stretched version of the mid-1990s Clio’s platform, but has nothing to do with the Clios of this millenium.
It’s the same platform as the Dacia Logan – leftover 1990s Renault engineering.

For the price of a base model Brera (cloth seats, 1.8L engine) you could buy two Euro-Foci.

IIRC, at the time of the DCX merger, Chrysler was profitable, had $7 to $12 billion on hand and had a rash of new products in development that were an improvement on what they had recently launched. There’s a host of good background stories at Allpardotcom about the effect of the merger on the Chrysler design and engineering departments. In essence Daimler sodomized Chrysler in the decade they were “partners”, and left a shell of what was originally a healthy automaker.

Fiat cars are another story, but with Chrysler at the bottom of the reliability studies, retraining workers and retooling assembly lanes for American-made Fiats just seems like a horrendous idea.

“What would you expect from someone that has only “Community Activist” (aka, Thief) on his resume.”

Could we avoid the politics and insults? The GOP lost the elections, had it coming, and hopefully will come back modernized and smarter. Now get over it. Oh, and it’s community “organizer”, not activist.

Sorry, there is very little difference between what an American needs in his version and a Euro version these days. Just add A/C and an automatic. Any euro trash would sell just like the German cars do. Building a different car for the US market is what got these fools in this mess in the first place.

That said, American driving needs are different. In Europe, space is limited in the cities. In America, zoning often REQUIRES available parking (NYC be damned!). That encourages us to drive larger vehicles. Not that we NEED it.

I find it funny, just about every day here on TTAC, somebody laments that they want an Alfa on US shores. They are either mosocists or fools. Europeans don’t even buy them – twice. Sure, they look nice but you won’t want it after two years and neither will anyone else.

Well, now that FIAT has Chrysler, you might just get your beloved 500. I think it will go ever well in America. However, you’ll never get the Abarth unless you import it yourself. It will be like the 959. The mythical Porsche that America couldn’t have. But where the Zuffenhausen masterpiece was a technical marvel, the 500 is a POS and will leave you feeling let down – especially if it is modified for the US market and built in Mexico or worse, the US.

Since I am bashing brands. This BS about Toyota being so reliable is just that – BS. Sure, up to the mid eighties they were spot on great but every year after that they got just a little bit worse. Now, Toyota may just be regulated to an appliance but as the thread about coffee makers elsewhere on TTAC shows, not all appliances are created equal and what was great in the past gets dummied down my corporate management. Toyota is just a GM with more cash. It’s fall will come.

Oh and by the way, I recently was shopping for a car (in Europe) for a VERY large woman who came to work with me. Being a American, we first looked at minivans (Automatic, enough space etc.). Too big to park. I put her in an Opel Corse, but it was painful (as you could imagine). Same with my 5 series BMW. What did she buy? A Toyota Yaris! And now she is (as the saying goes) fat, dumb anda happy!

And Also look at Toyota Formula 1 team’s engine department personal. Try to find one Japenese (sic) name. Most of them ex-Ferrari-Fiat Men.

In a worldwide sport, there’s a couple yes, but most of them are German, Japanese and English actually based in Cologne, Germany. There is still input from Toyota Japan as well.

Kazuo Takeuchi is the Senior General Manager Engine for F1 Engines at the moment. If memory serves, he is ex-Yamaha/Toyota engine partnership.

I once applied for a job as a differential software engineer with Toyota Team Europe in the WRCar program days. I often dream about it….

I can’t wait to not buy one of its products.

Toyota+Walmart=End of North America!

Not true. Chrysler has several plants that are true flex, they happen to be the ones that have not closed. For example the one in Toluca Mexico is building the Pt Cruiser and the Journey at the same time (this is the last year for the PT). The word that I heard from sources inside Chrysler was that FIAT officials were surprised at how modern (and flexible) Chrysler plants were. I guess they were reading all the blogs and the MSM’s (lack of real) reporting and believing them.

a Grande Punto 1.9 diesel could tick the boxes and the Bravo couldn’t be any worse than the cailber or even worse the pt shitbucket. the biggest test all; Could the Italians improve the ‘ring/revenger gruesome twosome.

General Motors 17%
Ford 70%
Chrysler 0%
Out of all vehicles tested by the same maker.
How do you recover from something like that?

dror

Immediate risk is more compelling than medium- to long-term risk. Look at the recent banking crisis for an obvious example. The opportunity for short-term profits were more compelling for most than the possibility of future losses.

It is not wise for the government to give Fiat the opportunity to fail without getting clubbed in the head for it. I’m hoping that’s now how it turns out.

That isn’t quite enough. Current cash at risk is more of a motivator than is lost future opportunity.

But if this is true:

Fiat really does need Chrysler, because otherwise, it has little chance of getting the market share or global footprint that it needs to be competitive.

then it sounds like there’s a lot more than “lost future opportunity” at stake for FIAT. Sounds more like survival to me–an economic downturn such as the one we’re in can turn an uncompetitive automaker into the next Chrysler in pretty short order.

Cheers,
Jeremy

now.

Chrysler was not in dire straights in when they merged with Daimler-Benz in 1998. At the time of the merger, their stock was $53 a share and they were the world’s most profitable car company. They were banking on the success of their minivans and Ram pickup and were enjoying the popularity of the newly introduced Neon and cab-forward designed LH vehicles.