1. Traffic contests are heard by Administrative Law Officer, who are actual attorneys the city hire to oversee small matter such as traffic and small claim. They are not point and click people. They are actual attorney licensed in the state of IL to practice Law. They have to remain objective and fair when ruling on your case. If they don’t, they can lose their license to practice law. If you felt you got an unfair trial, you can even appeal your case to a trial court where a full time judge will review your case. This whole process is very professional, it’s not like the city pulled some random guy off the street who will always rule for the city of chicago.

2. In your original post, you stated that you got “ticketed for “going through a red” while the photo shows the light yellow”. Now unless there are other factors that you have not shared with rest of us, the above seem to be a clear case of you not running a red light. I don’t think you even need a law degrees to follow that logic.

3. Looking back on your original post, the lawyer suggested not fighting the ticket because it’s not worth your time for $90 and no point. He never said you can’t win this ticket against the city of chicago, he also didn’t say that it wouldn’t be a valid defense. I am only arguing that based on the city codes, it’s a valid defense. For all I know, you may have circumstances where it is not worth the $90 to contest this no point ticket.

Go to court anyway. This way the city has to spend money to hear your case. I received a speeding ticket that had surcharges on it, in addition to the actual violation. I went to court, the cop did show up, and I managed to waste 20 minutes of the court’s time. I was the last case and walked down the hall with the cop that issued the ticket. He asked me why I bothered to come to court if in the end I knew I was going to be found guilty. I told him that between the payroll for the judge, for the cop, plus the time and energy spent to operate the court facilities, the state lost way more than the value of the ticket. So, for me, it was a bit of a victory anyway. The cop laughed and said that if more people acted like me, he would get way more court overtime…

Are you a lawyer? And if so, how much traffic court/red light violations you have done? You have to realize that it is an ADMINISTRATIVE judge, not a real judge. It’s point & click law.

Chicago used to be a wonderful city. I remember being able to catch the bus/train at roughly the same time to go to school every day. It is currently in an almost unusable state.

They really should raise the fare to $5-$6 (still a deal compared to driving with $4 gas, car expenes, and parking) and rebuild everything with the extra fare money. They should quit already with the extra taxes, begging in springfield, etc. I’d support a chicago area gas tax to fund chicago transport.

At this point, I will have one year left in Chitown, and then it is off to the far suburbs and commuting daily. I actually look forward to having my own place, having my own garage, etc.

Every job I’ve worked in the past 6-7 years I’ve had a flexible schedule. I can get to work anytime between 6:00-10am so can avoid rush hour. There is no reason for me to really live in the city anymore. It really offers nothing since my wife & I are homebodies.

Traffic cameras, automated cameras, and 10.25% sales tax are the final straw.

Enjoy your high taxes, expensive property, red light cameras, higher crime rates, lack of a garage, crappy schools, etc.

I will be enjoying cheap housing, large garage, less criminals, but pay for it with gas/vehicle expenses and probably higher property taxes. A pretty good deal IMHO.

There are 6 valid defenses for red light violation.

defense #4 The facts alleged in the violation notice are inconsistent or do not support a finding that Section 9-8-020(c) or Section 9-16-030(c) was violated;

Chicago Muni Code section 9-8-020(c) basically deals with running a red light, 9-8-030(c) deal with flashing signals.

So if your defense is that the fact alleged in the violation does not support a finding of running a red light, it’s a valid defense.

I am not sure which lawyer you been talking to, either need to fire him or report him to the IL bar for bad advice. Any competent law student could’ve figure this issue out.

I’ll also add that for the years I lived in Gold Coast. Parking is a bitch, but if you are in the city, just get rid of the car. Buy a mopad, bike, take public transportation, anything but the car. At my location, parking was at painfully $250 a month for outdoor uncovered parking and $300 a month for indoor heated parking. Factoring insurance and permit costs, I can probably take taxi everywhere and still spend less a month to keep a car in the city.

As for the camera, I welcome our camera overlord. It has made the city so much safer. Anyone ever try walking west on division from gold coast to wicker park after midnight? Used to be cops allow cars to blow stop signs because that area is notorious for crimes. Now, 24/7 camera, safe neighbor.

But, I have to say… if you get hit with a ticket for street cleaning you deserve it. My street has permanent signs telling you when it is scheduled, PLUS the city comes around 1-2 days before and labels the signs with brightly colored temporary signs.

Many of the other comments are valid as well. Chicago is quite beautiful, but it is all on the surface. The politics are crooked, we are wasteful beyond belief (check out how bad the recycling program is in Chicago), there are way too many cameras, and we pay wicked taxes to cover the salaries of all the mayor and alderman’s friends. Usually I just accept this as part of the Chicago lifestyle, but sometimes it really ticks me off.

All to get the Olympics and put the fifth star (the Daley star) on the city flag.

I guage state and local governments by two metrics.

1-dishonesty
2-stupidity

These two angles more or less can explain everything you see in USA politics.

Stupid and dishonest? Boston, Quincy Ma. Much of Mass.

Stupid but honest? Much of NH including my local small town, Conway NH. Many small towns but not enough.

Its easier to forgive a hopeless volunteer than a jaded pro.

Smart and dishonest? RI.

Smart and honest, my local village Eaton NH. but powerless so all they can do is avoid screwing us.

Chicago government is operated for the benefit of its workers and their pensions, this is a fundamental truism in US, if not worldwide. If they are like elsewhere, they are irrevocably bankrupt, you would know this if they weren’t lying in their financials, their retirements are not payable out of tax base. Run while you can. NH is in deep shit with the pensions but not like most places.

Spend a week in Detroit and then go back to Chicago and rejoice in your public transit.

Not in this case. It’s easy enough to toss out the name Orwell, and then add Big Brother and 1984. But this isn’t govenment spying on people w/o probable cause. This is a camera doing the job a policeman would do, at substantial savings.

I won’t get into Chicago parking/street cleaning details because I don’t live there. Suffice to say, if your car is parked where it should not be, you’ll get a ticket. Does it really matter if it’s done by a camera instead of a live cop?

In my city I can’t park on any city street between 2am and 5am – every day.

Perhaps after Justin passes his bar exam he’d like to write an essay on traffic/parking cameras and civil rights. IMO, there are no civil rights issues with having a street sweeper camera.

One of the great ironies of our time may be when America wakes up to realize that President Barry Hussein mentored at the feet of a very slick (read: crooked) political dynasty.

Which is why the growth of the federal government (beginning with FDR) is so vexing – increasingly its hard to escape (think the ever spiraling federal income and payroll taxes).

Chicago sounds like my state of Rhode Island. Run by a corrupt Democrat machine (which in turn is largely run by the public sector unions); insatiable appetite for taxpayer dollars to feed the union-patronage axis; no real opposition party (our “Republicans” are mostly “go along to get along with the Democrat machine” RINO’s); potholed roads; collapsing bridges; lousy public schools and an economy in long-term decline (RI was ranked the worst state in the continental U.S. for business climate by CNBC).

It appears to me that the Rustbelt has spread to the Northeast, and that “Rustbelt” is not a function of industrial decline, but instead the result of the public sector unions / Democrat Party being in control for an extended period of time.

The danger is the people who race through a full second or two after the light has turned red. The left turn people might get t-boned, or more likely the people travelling straight through on the green in the perpendicular direction get crushed.

Red light cameras are oriented towards the yellow light runner, and, to me anyway, don’t seem as concerned with the safety issue as with the simple money grab.

Eventually, they will come for you and yours. Get out.

Using your link I would have chosen option #4 if in fact the evidence shows that it was a yellow light.

The following defenses are allowed for Red Light Violations recorded by automated cameras:
…
4. The facts alleged in the violation notice are inconsistent or do not support a finding that Section 9-8-020(c) or Section 9-16-030(c) was violated;

One of the greatest things about the US is the vast difference in policies and costs across the land. It allows us to choose the level of BS we want from our government and the price we are willing to pay. Not everyone can move around to effect a change (due to the expense) but there is always that option.

Last year 36,000 people left Philadelphia for other parts, knocking Philly from 5th to 6th largest city. People do have a choice about the level of nanny state they put up with and they can vote with their feet. For now.

These automated systems are great if life was black and white but it isn’t.

You know how many times you are trying to get through a light here during rush hour and people or bicyclists are just ignoring your car? This system isn’t automatically ticketing them too. You can run them over and avoid the stoplight ticket or wait and get caught in the intersection as the camera clicks.

As for the temporary sweeper notices, it makes it hard to leave your car parked and go on vacation without returning to a ticket.

So don’t park for over a week and don’t pull into the intersection because it’s all going to end up illegal. So what if traffic extends a couple of seconds past the light for every light? Drivers expect it. People are not abusing red lights and parking to the detriment of the city no matter how much the officials howl.

These are pure and simple money grabs by treating a few actions in black and white fashion while the rest of life continues in its shades of gray.

The British accept surveillance cameras because they lived through an IRA bombing campaign that lasted for decades and face real and significant threats of terrorism.
I hope you don’t carry a mobile phone Robert because that gives the authorities a much more accurate and comprehensive record of your comings and goings than cameras ever could.

As far as the red light issue goes wouldn’t this cover the circumstance where the photo shows you running an orange light?
4. The facts alleged in the violation notice are inconsistent or do not support a finding that Section 9-8-020(c) or Section 9-16-030(c) was violated;

There are only like 6 valid defenses LISTED ON THE TICKET ITSELF. Anything else is immediately thrown out. I don’t think you live in Chicago. I got this advice from someone practicing Traffic Court law in Chicago.

Btw, the camera recorded my speed as 31mph through the light so I obviously wasn’t gunning it either.

Btw, these are “administrative tickets” and are heard before “Administrative judges” not real judges. The whole thing is a joke.

http://egov.cityofchicago.org/city/webportal/portalContentItemAction.do?BV_SessionID=@@@@0772269796.1216913768@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccfadeejlmkmfkcefecelldffhdfif.0&contentOID=536924902&contenTypeName=COC_EDITORIAL&topChannelName=Dept&blockName=Revenue%2FRed+Light+Camera+Violations%2FI+Want+To&context=dept&channelId=0&programId=0&entityName=Revenue&deptMainCategoryOID=-536889525

Lets say after my automated ticketing experience (being ticketed for “going through a red” while the photo shows the light yellow) has soured me on the concept.

I was told by a lawyer it was not worth to fight it for $90 since it wasn’t points and wouldn’t raise my auto insurance.

If the photo shows yellow, you could have fought it and won, unless that camera somehow can prove that you gunned it ahead of the light (which, in some jurisdictions, is illegal). In fact, you were probably better able to fight it than you would have been if you were up against a traffic officer because the machine’s evidence is essentially immutable.

You chose not to fight it, despite easy evidence to the contrary, because it wasn’t worth your going to court for. That’s not a fault of the camera.

I was told by a lawyer it was not worth to fight it for $90 since it wasn’t points and wouldn’t raise my auto insurance.

I now actively avoid any intersections with red light cameras even if it causes me to use more gas.