Thank you for the information and advice! I will definitely look into scheduling a local test drive for a 993 or 964.

Well, I’ve owned 2 911s (’87 3.2 Carrera, and currently a ’96 993 C2) and an ’04 STi. IMO, you should just get rid of your Porsche bug….and buy a 911.

“Buy the newest car you can afford” indeed is the watch-phrase, with the caveat that “newest” isn’t necessarily “best” or most reliable. Super low mile 911s = not driven. Not driven can = mechanical and maintenance issues…..and $$$. Unless all you care about are concours trophies, 911s NEED to be driven, and driven hard occasionally. Make sure any car you look has maintenance records showing what’s been done, when and by whom.

IMO a 993 is where you should first look, but a nice 964 or even a 3.2 Carrera (‘87-’89 with the G50 tranny) is also worthy of your attention, and all are potentially reliable DDs.

That said, all 911s have quirks and potential “issues”, all of which are well known and can be spotted in a pre-purchase inspection by a competent Porsche mechanic, which you absolutely do before buying. As part of this inspection be sure and pop for a cylinder leak down test, which will usually (but not always) indicate engine “issues”, for example, the valve guide wear issue that is known to afflict 993s.

I loved my STi – driving it made me feel invincible. Blindingly fast, easy to mod, relatively cheap to own, takes all the abuse you can throw it, yet dead reliable, and just balls-out fun.

911s are a different animal. Balls out fun, but with an edge that Jack Baruth so well describes above. They’re generally reliable, but need attention – and to be driven – to stay that way.

I guess if I were to boil it down, owning an STi is easy, and pretty cheap. But you always feel a little juvenile driving it. Owning a 911 is more of a commitment. But if you master its dark side, you feel like Peter Gregg or Hurley Haywood.

I’m currently considering purchasing a 911, I do not have much experience with the Porsches (only a few test drives in 996 & 997 Carreras). From what I have read and seen in comments in blogs and buff book is that the 993’s are that the highest evolution of the original and the best of all 911’s (the above great article included).

As of right now I have no clue if I should focus on a particular generation. The vehicle would be a DD for now and grow with me as life moves along. As with my few toys the car would never be given up baring a catastrophic event (ie. I plan on owning the car for hopefully decades).

964 The mention of “cost no object” build (quality?) and their significant price discount makes has made them interesting to consider. (Latest models are 15 years old)
993 Final evolution of the real 911 (Latest models are 11 years old)
996 The MkII apparently has a majority of the bugs worked out (RMS and IMS potential issues though) and will it really last for 30 yrs? (Although felt heavier/slower than my fathers STi, but much more planted/stable)
997 Felt like a much bigger and heavier 996 with really tight “sport” seats (I’m not a big guy by any means, although the interior was nice)

While the 997 definitely did not fit my expectations at least the 996 did (a 996 GT3 is still out of my price range but they are coming down). I am a bit concerned with the age of the earlier models as the car would be getting significant use. The common phrase comes to mind “Buy the newest car you can afford”.

I really need to test drive a 993 and 964, but I would truly appreciate your and everyone’s opinions as to where I should focus my attention?

Or should I figure out a way to get rid of the Porsche bug that has been afflicting me seemingly forever and attempt to find another great car. (STi is great but I do not really see the sense in having two of them in the family because I can borrow my fathers any time.)

A lot of Porsche people are Miata people as well, mostly thanks to Spec Miata. You haven’t experienced irony until you see a guy get out of a new Carrera GT at the track and run over to his $11,000 Spec Miata for morning practice.

And as to cars, I never pop up the barn doors on my NA Miata to a new “NC” model unless they flash first. Irocinacally however I was flashed by a passing 60’s vintage 911 (or maybe 912) driving home the other day. Having read all this it must have been a 912 as I can’t imagine a real Porsche acknowledging my pedestrian 1990 base Miata.

Yes my wife is catholic. She is from one of (if not the most) Catholic country in the world (Brazil).

I seriously think Mr. Baruth should conduct his speeding adventures in 600cc sport bike. At least the other party is more likely to survive (assuming it is a car).

Thank you. I accept!!! ;-)

I accept because the event would take place in a Track, I would be there helmeted and Nomexed, and with a professional at the wheel.

That´s a rational risk to take, just for the exhilaration.

The more I try to understand your motoring gestalt, is the more I fear how life would have turned out had some conservative beliefs managed to supress the innovative tendency of the human brain.

Excuse me, but the “conservative” car here is the Porsche 911, a car with a basic layout created in the 1930s.

The “innovative” car here is my Avensis: A FWD transverse engined Diesel Hatchback.

If you equate “reckless” with “innovative”, then Attila and the Huns should be regarded as the most innovative bunch in history. In fact, risking your life at the wheel is as old as motoring. The “innovative” part is to try to improve safety.

The more I try to understand your motoring gestalt, is the more I fear how life would have turned out had some conservative beliefs managed to supress the innovative tendency of the human brain.

I completely agree with you about finding the limits on a car. In my early road racing days, I was trying to find my limits and the car’s limits, and it was a learning process that icluded me going off track, a lot, sometimes backwards. I became a much better driver and racer by finding exactly where these limits are and discovering how a car behaves when you push past the limits.

Lately, I go to track days, and some of the guys there run fast machinery. Recently I was asking one of the seasoned HPDE guys (in an older 911) if he’d ever gone into the grass in his several years of track day experience. His answer was never. I asked him then, how does he really know his limits or the car’s if he’s never been to the limit and beyond. Also, since he’s never really had the car beyond its limits, how would he know how to react when it happened the first time?

I was serious. Deadly serious. The psychology of the reckless speeder fascinates me.

Missing your own death or dismemberment by a couple of feet is hilarious.

Fascinating assertion.

The only time in my driving life I have lost the control of my car, once the car stopped I was livid and totally frozen psychically and psychologically. I needed some time to reset my mind and -like an automaton- release the seatbelt and open the door to check where I was and the condition of the car.

This accident happened in 1998. I stupidly and ignorantly braked my Peugeot 205 in a curve I took too fast in a rural road. I lost control due to the tendency to sudden lift-off oversteer I later learned the Peugeot 205 had. I was lucky: No injuries for me, and only a broken bumper for the car. A similar accident can be deadly in different circumstances (a tree in the roadside, a lorry in the opposite direction…).

I said to myself: “Never, never, never allow this to happen again. This MUST be the last time you loose the control of your car”. When I learned about ESC I decided I needed an stable ESC fitted car. One of the selling points of my Avensis was the Double wishbone rear supension (lifted from the Celica).

Hilarity was the last thing in my consciousness that day. Why you find accidental death “hilarious”?.

The fine for no front tag is $75-150 depending on location and I’ve paid it five times in the past four years. The fine for 30+ over the limit is much higher and they can tow your car right there on the spot, so that’s my cost-benefit analysis.

@A is A: I think you’re pulling my leg, but I’ll answer as if you were serious. Missing your own death or dismemberment by a couple of feet is hilarious. As for my passenger in this case, he knows the risks. He was with me in my Phaeton last year when I straight-lined the end of the Climbing Esses at VIR last year at nearly 115mph and almost hit a corner worker’s station, and he’s been watching from the sidelines while I’ve hit guardrails and put my fellow racers in the bambulance.

Only in the movies do people “get away with it” every time. To know the limit, you have to find the limit. To find the limit, you have to step past it. You will not always return intact. That’s not me talking, that’s Ross Bentley. :)

As for the putative innocence of any bystanders, that sounds like a religious statement to me, and Robert has asked me not to share my religious beliefs with the readers. What can I say, he’s kind of anti-Manichean.

1934 – German PzKw l Light Tank Ausf B

Armament: 2 – 7.92mm MG
Engine: Maybach NL38TR, 6cyl. gas, 100 hp
Speed: 22.9mph
Range: 87 miles
Crew: 2
Weight: 5 tons

nice plates

Ah, and here I thought it was actual waving of hands. My vintage car is British, so light flashing is strictly out of the question. One does not tempt fate by awakening the Prince of Darkness, so we actually wave our hands at each other.

–chuck

Since he lives in Texas I suspect they aren’t required. There are many states in the South that don’t require them. Wait… it’s ALL the southern states that don’t requre them. And by the way, there are a number of states that have NO form of inspection or emissions testing whatsoever, mine included. If it rolls and has a brake light and tail light you can get a tag and you are legal. Period.

“Innocent bystanders” is shorter.

To sum up: 2003-2009 U.S. casualties in Iraq equals 36 days of deaths in U.S. roads, or 10 times the U.S. casualties in the Iraq war every single year.

The comment in question just reminded me of how little I have in common with some people

We are human and we live in the same planet. We have A LOT in common.

The idea that a life can be lived well (by my standards admittedly and proudly) without accepting those types of risks is absurd to me.

I do accept the rational risks of life. In fact I drive very relaxed, knowing that I drive carefully (maybe you would say “operate”) a 5 stars NCAP ESC fitted car. I can die driving and I accept that risk, because I did my best to avoid being killed on the road.

OTOH I deplore those who took irrational risks on the lifes of others.

Now all the Toyota owners reading this will be, once again, reminded of the incompetent left-lane hog expectations that other drivers hold for owners of their brand.

My wheels rarely touch the left lane. To drive safely one must flow with traffic. I rarely have business to do at the left lane.

And just you mentioned stereotypes… I own two books about Volvo ads of yesteryear. I simply love those ultra-rational 1970s ads. “Volvo. The car for people who think”

http://images.google.es/images?hl=es&q=“volvo”+”car+for+people+who+think”&btnG=Buscar+imágenes&gbv=2&aq=f&oq=

Living in the 1970s I, would be driving a Volvo 245.

Uh, and I am happy about making you laugh. Laughing is very healthy.

… Although this does put me in the mood for something with the engine in the back. An Alpine sounds good.

To me it’s pretty simple: Whoever sees the other P-car first flashes lights first, the other responds (hopefully). Doesn’t matter what year/model Porsche it is. I don’t initiate the flash to Cayennes, though, figuring the doctor’s wives usually driving the damn things probably don’t have a clue about this shit. But ya never know – they might also own a 911, so if they flash me I’m right there with a flick of the stalk.

Hell, I got flashed by a friggin’ Smart Car the other day and flashed back figuring he’s a P-car owner or enthusiast. Anyway, all in good DB fun, as Jack sez, and nobody takes it too seriously.

If only you knew how truly jealous I am. I lusted after several 993 models from Berlin, to Wuppertal, to Stuttgart, to even frackin Houston.

I ultimately had to relinquish that quest in the search for, well…. “settling” for a vehicle with stability protection (because despite my racing experience, I still have a lot to learn), heated seats (because despite going to war, I’m a weenie), and a warranty, because now I only have one car.

At the museum in Stuttgart, its not the 997/996’s that get the looks, the people really appreciate the 993’s that rasp by, and positively get down on their knees for the 930 and 911 models. When a 356 passes by, I think they lower the Stuttgart prancing pony to half mast, or something.

As a Boxster S owner, and now a 997 owner, I will always wave first. Because any idiot with a paycheck can get a water-cooled 911 (case in point, me!), only a true patron of the arts gets an air-cooled 911, with all the expenses, danger, and sheer joy they provide.

P.S. Try being a classic Audi owner, when I drive my 1978 Audi Fox GTI, or my old 1984 Quattro, I only get sneers from S5 owners… they should respect my heritage!

@Power6: Gravity, in the baseball bat example, is a stand-in for inertia.

@gossard: Porsche ownership isn’t about spending the most money. That’s a game you can’t win in the PCA, which includes Seinfeld, Bill Gates, and others in the membership list.

@no_slushbox: I’ll discuss this with my wife when she calls next. For some reason, she’s on a bus tour of Czechoslovakia.

@Michael Karesh: The 964 rear suspension was heavily revised from the 911 Carrera 3.2, and the 993 adds the “Kinetic Toe” adjustment which makes alignments a zillion-dollar bitch.

Re the “Porsche Wave”: As DeNiro said, like a lot of things, we laugh because it’s funny, and we laugh because it’s true. A while ago, I waved to a 996 Turbo S Cab owner in my hometown and he didn’t wave back. I was in my Boxster Anniversary Edition at the time. Then, a month later, I see the guy and he waves. I’m in the 993, so I refuse to acknowledge his presence. I don’t really believe in that stuff, but it’s all in solid, douchebag fun :)