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	<title>Comments on: Capsule Review: Mercedes Benz 190E 2.3-16</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/</link>
	<description>The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:01:32 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bulldog Drummond</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1565976</link>
		<dc:creator>Bulldog Drummond</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Nov 2009 17:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1565976</guid>
		<description>Hi there, driving in the uk is hardly the same as hammering the back roads but interested to read your comments on the Merc steering. I&#039;ve had three 190E 2.0 autos. The first two were run into by red light runners.... by the way, even with a total write off you could still open the doors and walk away from it... so thanks Mercedes..
I&#039;ve found the steering  awesome on the freeway, I took four adults, one child and all our luggage around Germany and Denmark and it cruised as if on rails. With a lighter load and hitting the dirt roads, I&#039;ve found the steering fingertip light... the sheer mass of the car is more of a problem in getting round on gravel but even trying to drive like a complete loon it still does what it&#039;s meant to.  Others have commented on the engine characteristics- with the kickdown on the auto gearbox great for overtaking at 60 plus but a bit reluctant to get going from a slower speed.
For what it&#039;s worth changing the injectors, transmission fluid and filter, diff oil, in fact everything that can be poured in or out and it takes ten years off the car.
OK enough idle chat,
Hope the winter doesn&#039;t get too cold over there!
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi there, driving in the uk is hardly the same as hammering the back roads but interested to read your comments on the Merc steering. I&#8217;ve had three 190E 2.0 autos. The first two were run into by red light runners&#8230;. by the way, even with a total write off you could still open the doors and walk away from it&#8230; so thanks Mercedes..<br />
I&#8217;ve found the steering  awesome on the freeway, I took four adults, one child and all our luggage around Germany and Denmark and it cruised as if on rails. With a lighter load and hitting the dirt roads, I&#8217;ve found the steering fingertip light&#8230; the sheer mass of the car is more of a problem in getting round on gravel but even trying to drive like a complete loon it still does what it&#8217;s meant to.  Others have commented on the engine characteristics- with the kickdown on the auto gearbox great for overtaking at 60 plus but a bit reluctant to get going from a slower speed.<br />
For what it&#8217;s worth changing the injectors, transmission fluid and filter, diff oil, in fact everything that can be poured in or out and it takes ten years off the car.<br />
OK enough idle chat,<br />
Hope the winter doesn&#8217;t get too cold over there!<br />
 <!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: suspectw201</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1503057</link>
		<dc:creator>suspectw201</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Jun 2009 17:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1503057</guid>
		<description>I need help with brake discs specs... Idon&#039;t know them, I have a w201 2.6  1992 with manual tansmission. its a charm to drive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I need help with brake discs specs&#8230; Idon&#8217;t know them, I have a w201 2.6  1992 with manual tansmission. its a charm to drive.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: mossmiller</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1448871</link>
		<dc:creator>mossmiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Apr 2009 15:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1448871</guid>
		<description>Test drove one of these in 1988 but got a BMW 535is instead.  Always thought that 190 was the forerunner of modern 4-cylinder engines, which are all 16-valve today.  

Another nice car from that era was the Porsche 944 16 &quot;ventiler&quot;.  Ran nice on the track and no turbo to worry about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Test drove one of these in 1988 but got a BMW 535is instead.  Always thought that 190 was the forerunner of modern 4-cylinder engines, which are all 16-valve today.  </p>
<p>Another nice car from that era was the Porsche 944 16 &#8220;ventiler&#8221;.  Ran nice on the track and no turbo to worry about.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Alex Kambas</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1312861</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Kambas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 08:00:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1312861</guid>
		<description>Great stuff, thanks for that. I owned a 23-16 for 10 years until it was stolen from my home in Cardiff in 2002. Still mourning.

What a car it was! The European version had 21hp more than the american 23-16, which means that maybe it wasn&#039;t as fast as tne E30 M3, but had so much to offer. The LSD rear diff, the dogbone getrag transmission, self leveling rear suspension with adjustable ride height from inside (post &#039;86 model year) four bucket seats and a glorious engine sound as it hit the rev limiter at 7200rpm. 

As for the recirculating ball steering, well it matched the whole experience. The car was not as harsh as the M3, maybe even not as sharp to drive, but it was a true Mercedes nevertheless. The large steering wheel was slow around the center but acurate when it mattered most, close to full lock.

My only regret with this car was its weak timing chain that snapped on me only a few hundered km past its replacement milage. A fact that was confirmed to me by the chief engineering of the project, much latter, in 2006 when I met him on an AMG trip I made during my peak auto-journalism years (he is the same guy who lead the 6.2 AMG V8 project btw). The 2.5-16 had a double chain reinforcement for exactly that reason. 

You can still buy the car in Germany today. Some are in great shape. It&#039;s on my list when it turns 30 (i.e. 2016) so that it will be tax exempted here in Greece.

Great car!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Great stuff, thanks for that. I owned a 23-16 for 10 years until it was stolen from my home in Cardiff in 2002. Still mourning.</p>
<p>What a car it was! The European version had 21hp more than the american 23-16, which means that maybe it wasn&#8217;t as fast as tne E30 M3, but had so much to offer. The LSD rear diff, the dogbone getrag transmission, self leveling rear suspension with adjustable ride height from inside (post &#8216;86 model year) four bucket seats and a glorious engine sound as it hit the rev limiter at 7200rpm. </p>
<p>As for the recirculating ball steering, well it matched the whole experience. The car was not as harsh as the M3, maybe even not as sharp to drive, but it was a true Mercedes nevertheless. The large steering wheel was slow around the center but acurate when it mattered most, close to full lock.</p>
<p>My only regret with this car was its weak timing chain that snapped on me only a few hundered km past its replacement milage. A fact that was confirmed to me by the chief engineering of the project, much latter, in 2006 when I met him on an AMG trip I made during my peak auto-journalism years (he is the same guy who lead the 6.2 AMG V8 project btw). The 2.5-16 had a double chain reinforcement for exactly that reason. </p>
<p>You can still buy the car in Germany today. Some are in great shape. It&#8217;s on my list when it turns 30 (i.e. 2016) so that it will be tax exempted here in Greece.</p>
<p>Great car!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: tedward</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1304841</link>
		<dc:creator>tedward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:23:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1304841</guid>
		<description>KnightRT
glad to hear it...this actually got me in quite a bit of trouble. The amusement factor of what I&#039;d done wasn&#039;t quite enough to override the pain-in-the-ass factor of having crying and pissed off women (they teamed up) howling for my head. My father put a stop to it almost immediately, and I was out there inside of 15 minutes scraping them off.

On a positive note, she&#039;s only killed one deer since the sticker incident (over a decade ago) so maybe I had an impact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->KnightRT<br />
glad to hear it&#8230;this actually got me in quite a bit of trouble. The amusement factor of what I&#8217;d done wasn&#8217;t quite enough to override the pain-in-the-ass factor of having crying and pissed off women (they teamed up) howling for my head. My father put a stop to it almost immediately, and I was out there inside of 15 minutes scraping them off.</p>
<p>On a positive note, she&#8217;s only killed one deer since the sticker incident (over a decade ago) so maybe I had an impact.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: MBella</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1302791</link>
		<dc:creator>MBella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:41:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1302791</guid>
		<description>I love this review. The W201 is my favorite Merc. I would love to own one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I love this review. The W201 is my favorite Merc. I would love to own one.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: fincar1</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1302652</link>
		<dc:creator>fincar1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:03:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1302652</guid>
		<description>Yes! I&#039;m a fan of these capsule reviews too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yes! I&#8217;m a fan of these capsule reviews too.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Porsche986</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1302551</link>
		<dc:creator>Porsche986</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1302551</guid>
		<description>One more thing...  I just LOVE the capsule reviews.  Keep &#039;em coming!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->One more thing&#8230;  I just LOVE the capsule reviews.  Keep &#8216;em coming!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Porsche986</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1302532</link>
		<dc:creator>Porsche986</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1302532</guid>
		<description>I have owned two W201, one W123 and one W124.  They were all of comparable quality.  But I have to say my favorite was the W201 (190e).  It was a great size.  I started with a 1992 190e 2.3 which was a great touring car.  The next was the 1992 190e 2.6 Sportline.  This car had the lowered 2.3-16 suspension, the same bucket front and bucket rear seats as a 2.3-16 (but in leather), but with the inline 6 and an automatic.  And I have to agree with everyone about the steering... it felt best at high-speeds.  Over 90mph the car was so settled it defies explanation.

I still love and miss that car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have owned two W201, one W123 and one W124.  They were all of comparable quality.  But I have to say my favorite was the W201 (190e).  It was a great size.  I started with a 1992 190e 2.3 which was a great touring car.  The next was the 1992 190e 2.6 Sportline.  This car had the lowered 2.3-16 suspension, the same bucket front and bucket rear seats as a 2.3-16 (but in leather), but with the inline 6 and an automatic.  And I have to agree with everyone about the steering&#8230; it felt best at high-speeds.  Over 90mph the car was so settled it defies explanation.</p>
<p>I still love and miss that car.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: SunnyvaleCA</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1302511</link>
		<dc:creator>SunnyvaleCA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1302511</guid>
		<description>paul_y:  you can find plenty of w201 for practically no money at all.  I&#039;d suggest you get a w123 or w124 instead, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->paul_y:  you can find plenty of w201 for practically no money at all.  I&#8217;d suggest you get a w123 or w124 instead, though.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: paul_y</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1302282</link>
		<dc:creator>paul_y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:25:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1302282</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d love to own any W201, never mind the 2.3-16. They were the last &quot;real,&quot; brick-shithouse MB. 

Really, when I stop and think about it, the 80s cars I see the most often are Mercedes-Benzes, even in this rust-belt town that I&#039;m in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;d love to own any W201, never mind the 2.3-16. They were the last &#8220;real,&#8221; brick-shithouse MB. </p>
<p>Really, when I stop and think about it, the 80s cars I see the most often are Mercedes-Benzes, even in this rust-belt town that I&#8217;m in.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: bumpy</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1302162</link>
		<dc:creator>bumpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1302162</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not a German car fan, but if I was my Holy Grails would be a 190D 2.5 Turbo with a stick (the 1400 2.5Ts imported to the US in 1987 were all automatics) and the 190E 3.2 AMG (that one didn&#039;t make it over here either).

http://www.geocities.com/shvoldum/conversions/AMG32.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;m not a German car fan, but if I was my Holy Grails would be a 190D 2.5 Turbo with a stick (the 1400 2.5Ts imported to the US in 1987 were all automatics) and the 190E 3.2 AMG (that one didn&#8217;t make it over here either).</p>
<p><a href="http://www.geocities.com/shvoldum/conversions/AMG32.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.geocities.com/shvoldum/conversions/AMG32.html</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Alexdi</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1302032</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexdi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1302032</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;She would claim to be heartbroken by this, but apparently not enough to stop running over the damn things.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, that makes me laugh. Poor woman. Poor deer!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><i>She would claim to be heartbroken by this, but apparently not enough to stop running over the damn things.</i></p>
<p>Oh, that makes me laugh. Poor woman. Poor deer!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Johnny Canada</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1301832</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny Canada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:39:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1301832</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;because I used the money to buy a “perfect” 944, which has only been “perfect” at draining my wallet.  &lt;/em&gt;

Thanks for that. I came very close to buying a &quot;perfect&quot; 944. I missed my chance, and regretted it for years. I feel better now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><em>because I used the money to buy a “perfect” 944, which has only been “perfect” at draining my wallet.  </em></p>
<p>Thanks for that. I came very close to buying a &#8220;perfect&#8221; 944. I missed my chance, and regretted it for years. I feel better now.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: cretinx</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1301451</link>
		<dc:creator>cretinx</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 20:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1301451</guid>
		<description>These cars are absolutely impossible to find.

2.3s and 2.6s abound (especially in automatic trim), but you simply can&#039;t find the 16v.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->These cars are absolutely impossible to find.</p>
<p>2.3s and 2.6s abound (especially in automatic trim), but you simply can&#8217;t find the 16v.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: gaycorvette</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1301191</link>
		<dc:creator>gaycorvette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 18:21:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1301191</guid>
		<description>psarhjinian :

You&#039;re right.  The first gen C-class was the beginning of the end for Mercedes quality.  The first few model years had catastrophically bad quality.  I remember LJK Setright confronting the head of Mercedes at the time in the pages of Car magazine about the issue.  The guy said, really?  Let me drive your model!  He did, and was like all, &quot;Oh shit!&quot;

Then the (then) new E-class came out, whose quality was also so bad that German taxi drivers demonstrated in front of Mercedes headquarters.

It&#039;s been downhill ever since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->psarhjinian :</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right.  The first gen C-class was the beginning of the end for Mercedes quality.  The first few model years had catastrophically bad quality.  I remember LJK Setright confronting the head of Mercedes at the time in the pages of Car magazine about the issue.  The guy said, really?  Let me drive your model!  He did, and was like all, &#8220;Oh shit!&#8221;</p>
<p>Then the (then) new E-class came out, whose quality was also so bad that German taxi drivers demonstrated in front of Mercedes headquarters.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s been downhill ever since.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: SunnyvaleCA</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300932</link>
		<dc:creator>SunnyvaleCA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300932</guid>
		<description>To  psarhjinian:  There was a special factory-order C55 option for the w202.  I don&#039;t think they were available in the USA because of government testing regulations. (Why submit to all the government regulations/requirements to sell 3 cars?)  Europe also had a special order limited slip differential, which was a totally different combined diff+transmission usually found in the V12 cars.  I think you could also get a different differential ratio for higher gearing, which, coupled with removing the 155 MPH electronic nanny, might get you a few extra MPH on the autobahn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->To  psarhjinian:  There was a special factory-order C55 option for the w202.  I don&#8217;t think they were available in the USA because of government testing regulations. (Why submit to all the government regulations/requirements to sell 3 cars?)  Europe also had a special order limited slip differential, which was a totally different combined diff+transmission usually found in the V12 cars.  I think you could also get a different differential ratio for higher gearing, which, coupled with removing the 155 MPH electronic nanny, might get you a few extra MPH on the autobahn.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jack Baruth</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300922</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Baruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:18:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300922</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s, shall we say, a &lt;i&gt;wide variety of driver skill&lt;/i&gt; in One Lap. There are also many different ways to prepare for it. The fellow who has won it every one of the last four years is singlemindedly dedicated to the event and practices each track with his car ahead of time. Another guy arranged to have his car trucked to each track on the circuit to receive professional instruction. His VIR instructor canceled on him. During the event, he crashed at VIR. 

The One Lap winning formula is more or less this:

* Get the most horsepower and brake you can. 

* Drive the tracks right before the event, in the same car, and load your Traqmate with those runs so you can adjust your pace on-the-fly during the timed sessions.

* Don&#039;t break the car.

* Learn how to bracket-drag.

There&#039;s another way to game the system and become a &quot;One Lap winner&quot;, and I&#039;ll be covering it in my next Capsule Review, which is of our 2006 OLOA car.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->There&#8217;s, shall we say, a <i>wide variety of driver skill</i> in One Lap. There are also many different ways to prepare for it. The fellow who has won it every one of the last four years is singlemindedly dedicated to the event and practices each track with his car ahead of time. Another guy arranged to have his car trucked to each track on the circuit to receive professional instruction. His VIR instructor canceled on him. During the event, he crashed at VIR. </p>
<p>The One Lap winning formula is more or less this:</p>
<p>* Get the most horsepower and brake you can. </p>
<p>* Drive the tracks right before the event, in the same car, and load your Traqmate with those runs so you can adjust your pace on-the-fly during the timed sessions.</p>
<p>* Don&#8217;t break the car.</p>
<p>* Learn how to bracket-drag.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s another way to game the system and become a &#8220;One Lap winner&#8221;, and I&#8217;ll be covering it in my next Capsule Review, which is of our 2006 OLOA car.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: tedward</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300921</link>
		<dc:creator>tedward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:17:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300921</guid>
		<description>KnightRT

oh but there is, some grey scaled BMW logos would look very nice just behind the front fender of that Merc. Is that more or less tacky than sponsor decals?

When I was younger a family member kept taking out deer on upstate roads; we&#039;re talking 6 deer in 3 years. She would claim to be heartbroken by this, but apparently not enough to stop running over the damn things. So, I stole some bambi stickers from the little sister and mounted them just in front of the driver&#039;s side door. No one noticed for three days and it cost me a lot of temporary freedom...but it was worth it. In hindsight I should have waited a few weeks until the car was being daily driven in NYC.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->KnightRT</p>
<p>oh but there is, some grey scaled BMW logos would look very nice just behind the front fender of that Merc. Is that more or less tacky than sponsor decals?</p>
<p>When I was younger a family member kept taking out deer on upstate roads; we&#8217;re talking 6 deer in 3 years. She would claim to be heartbroken by this, but apparently not enough to stop running over the damn things. So, I stole some bambi stickers from the little sister and mounted them just in front of the driver&#8217;s side door. No one noticed for three days and it cost me a lot of temporary freedom&#8230;but it was worth it. In hindsight I should have waited a few weeks until the car was being daily driven in NYC.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: SunnyvaleCA</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300902</link>
		<dc:creator>SunnyvaleCA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300902</guid>
		<description>To answer a question above about the switch from recirculating ball to rack and pinion:  The w201 (190E) and w202 (first &quot;C-class&quot;) have recirculating ball and the w203 and w204 do not.  The w203 debuted in the USA as a 2001 model year.  In the E-class lineup, the W123 and W124 have recirculating ball but the W210 and W211 do not.  The W210 debuted as a 1996 model year.

Most people would say that dropping the recirculating ball happened at exactly the same time as the vehicles lost that &quot;engineered like no other car in the world&quot; feel.

The recirculating ball mechanism, at least in my experience, is very slow on center but quickens as you turn farther and farther.  At least that is my perception.  Perhaps it is that rack and pinion slows down as you turn farther and farther.  When switching from my recirculating ball daily driver to a rental car, I have no problems with gradual turns, but I tend to undershoot sharp turns because I don&#039;t realize how much farther I have to turn the wheel.

In addition to the actual mechanics of the mechanisms, most vintage Mercedes are set up with huge steering wheels, require a fair amount of effort to turn the wheel (not much &quot;power&quot; in that power steering), and require lots of turning of the wheel to go &quot;lock to lock.&quot;  I think that has much more to do with people&#039;s perception of recirculating ball steering than anything else.  I&#039;m currently driving a w202 bodied C43 AMG, which seems quite different from the various w124 bodies I&#039;ve driven extensively, mostly because of the much quicker ratio and smaller wheel.  Other than the lack of &quot;power&quot; in the power steering and the non-linear response at wide angles, you would probably not notice a difference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->To answer a question above about the switch from recirculating ball to rack and pinion:  The w201 (190E) and w202 (first &#8220;C-class&#8221;) have recirculating ball and the w203 and w204 do not.  The w203 debuted in the USA as a 2001 model year.  In the E-class lineup, the W123 and W124 have recirculating ball but the W210 and W211 do not.  The W210 debuted as a 1996 model year.</p>
<p>Most people would say that dropping the recirculating ball happened at exactly the same time as the vehicles lost that &#8220;engineered like no other car in the world&#8221; feel.</p>
<p>The recirculating ball mechanism, at least in my experience, is very slow on center but quickens as you turn farther and farther.  At least that is my perception.  Perhaps it is that rack and pinion slows down as you turn farther and farther.  When switching from my recirculating ball daily driver to a rental car, I have no problems with gradual turns, but I tend to undershoot sharp turns because I don&#8217;t realize how much farther I have to turn the wheel.</p>
<p>In addition to the actual mechanics of the mechanisms, most vintage Mercedes are set up with huge steering wheels, require a fair amount of effort to turn the wheel (not much &#8220;power&#8221; in that power steering), and require lots of turning of the wheel to go &#8220;lock to lock.&#8221;  I think that has much more to do with people&#8217;s perception of recirculating ball steering than anything else.  I&#8217;m currently driving a w202 bodied C43 AMG, which seems quite different from the various w124 bodies I&#8217;ve driven extensively, mostly because of the much quicker ratio and smaller wheel.  Other than the lack of &#8220;power&#8221; in the power steering and the non-linear response at wide angles, you would probably not notice a difference.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Alexdi</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300661</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexdi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 16:35:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300661</guid>
		<description>You beat an E39 M5 with that? Was it trailing parts? Anyway, congratulations. I wonder if there&#039;s an automotive equivalent to scalps hanging from a belt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->You beat an E39 M5 with that? Was it trailing parts? Anyway, congratulations. I wonder if there&#8217;s an automotive equivalent to scalps hanging from a belt.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: thetopdog</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300231</link>
		<dc:creator>thetopdog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300231</guid>
		<description>Hold on a second, a Chrysler wagon finished ahead of the &#039;almighty&#039; E39 M5?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hold on a second, a Chrysler wagon finished ahead of the &#8216;almighty&#8217; E39 M5?<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: brettc</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300122</link>
		<dc:creator>brettc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 15:00:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300122</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve always thought these cars were nice looking. Even today, they still look modern. A few years ago I was looking for a 190D with the 2.5 turbodiesel, but ended up buying a Jetta TDI instead because the pricing on a used 190D was too much at the time compared to a new Jetta. I&#039;d still love to have one though, so maybe someday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;ve always thought these cars were nice looking. Even today, they still look modern. A few years ago I was looking for a 190D with the 2.5 turbodiesel, but ended up buying a Jetta TDI instead because the pricing on a used 190D was too much at the time compared to a new Jetta. I&#8217;d still love to have one though, so maybe someday.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Jack Baruth</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300082</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Baruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300082</guid>
		<description>@tedward: After One Lap, I returned the car to Aaron who showed it at various Benz owners&#039; gatherings and took it to the Car Corral at that year&#039;s USGP. I sold it to a young enthusiast who drove it year-round and the Ohio salt took its toll. 

That fellow traded it in on a Jag XJR to a shop which kind of fixed the rust, put a four-point cage in it and sold it three times to three different owners, all of whom ended up trading it back in on something faster. I don&#039;t know what happened after that. 

There wasn&#039;t room in the article, but my 190E wasn&#039;t the only W201 competing in 2005; a group of guys resurrected another 2.3-16 for &quot;The Longest Day&quot; at Nelson Ledges. 

The following year, I became involved in a project to build a W201 with an engine transplant from a C36 AMG for NASA&#039;s GTS class. In the end, the costs ran out of hand, so the car got sold and I signed up at the last minute for a season in Leo Capaldi&#039;s #68 Focus. 

I shouldn&#039;t have sold the car... because I used the money to buy a &quot;perfect&quot; 944, which has only been &quot;perfect&quot; at draining my wallet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->@tedward: After One Lap, I returned the car to Aaron who showed it at various Benz owners&#8217; gatherings and took it to the Car Corral at that year&#8217;s USGP. I sold it to a young enthusiast who drove it year-round and the Ohio salt took its toll. </p>
<p>That fellow traded it in on a Jag XJR to a shop which kind of fixed the rust, put a four-point cage in it and sold it three times to three different owners, all of whom ended up trading it back in on something faster. I don&#8217;t know what happened after that. </p>
<p>There wasn&#8217;t room in the article, but my 190E wasn&#8217;t the only W201 competing in 2005; a group of guys resurrected another 2.3-16 for &#8220;The Longest Day&#8221; at Nelson Ledges. </p>
<p>The following year, I became involved in a project to build a W201 with an engine transplant from a C36 AMG for NASA&#8217;s GTS class. In the end, the costs ran out of hand, so the car got sold and I signed up at the last minute for a season in Leo Capaldi&#8217;s #68 Focus. </p>
<p>I shouldn&#8217;t have sold the car&#8230; because I used the money to buy a &#8220;perfect&#8221; 944, which has only been &#8220;perfect&#8221; at draining my wallet.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Emro</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/capsule-review-mercedes-benz-190e-23-16/comment-page-1/#comment-1300041</link>
		<dc:creator>Emro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=262342#comment-1300041</guid>
		<description>Automobile mag had a good write-up on the E30 M3 vs 190E 2.3
http://www.automobilemag.com/features/great_drives/0702_1988_bmw_m3_vs_1987_mercedes_benz_190e_23_16/index.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Automobile mag had a good write-up on the E30 M3 vs 190E 2.3<br />
<a href="http://www.automobilemag.com/features/great_drives/0702_1988_bmw_m3_vs_1987_mercedes_benz_190e_23_16/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.automobilemag.com/features/great_drives/0702_1988_bmw_m3_vs_1987_mercedes_benz_190e_23_16/index.html</a><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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