Comments on: Capsule Review: 1989 Plymouth Grand Voyager

By: miso_hot

miso_hot — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 22:18:20 +0000

Wow, this really brings back memories. My parents bought a 1989 DGC because I was born and my sister came along later on in 1992. I remember we always took this car to L.A. and Santa Cruz. Sadly it was poorly made and at 10,000 miles you can hear the sliding door squeek and at 35,000 miles the tranny bombed. It was really in innovative minivan though I gotta admit.

By: Stingray

Stingray — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:59:02 +0000

Did those things came equipped with Chrysler’s 2.2 or 2.5 Turbo four?

I’ve read some tales about some very cool turbo screammers in the internet.

By: Gardiner Westbound

Gardiner Westbound — Tue, 16 Dec 2008 13:50:37 +0000

The MagicWagons were terrific family cars, if you could keep a transmission in them. A person running alongside picking up the parts that fell off was also helpful.

By: seby86

seby86 — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:59:21 +0000

Straying a bit off the subject of who was the first mini-van, The 89 MPV we had when I was growing up was a winner to me. RWD, good ride, good build quality and can smoke the pants of the chrysler in a drag race (torquey 3liter v6). Ah, and need I not mention the optional 4WD (which unfortunetaly my father didnt opt for). It was actually more SUV than mini-van but still a mini-van.
The only real gripe I had as a young child was the lack of a sliding door in place of a conventional swing-out door. At the time I thought sliding doors were quite fascinating and never missed the opportunity to open and close the door of the cousin’s 93 base Caravan. However ours felt like a superior vehicle and stayed in the family for 13 years. We finally sold it with 275k miles on the clock and a busted transmission for $500. Its still chugging around the island of Puerto Rico as i write this. ( probably with a rebuilt engine and tranny).

By: rudiger

rudiger — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:27:13 +0000

If you guys really want to get technical about this, the very first minivan was the 1935 Stout Scarab.

But it would be hard to dispute that the first truly successful minivan on a mass-production scale was the ‘84 Chrysler.

By: anoldbikeguy

anoldbikeguy — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 21:24:25 +0000

“Airhen :
December 15th, 2008 at 12:00 pm

With the Voyagers poor build quality, no wonder Honda (among others) have sold so many mini-vans. It just goes to show that a lot of people have been ripped off and the big 2.8 should have died a lot sooner.”

Typical head in the sand – Chrysler sells more minivans than ANYONE. 2008 YTD from Honda website:

Honda Odyssey – 128,543

Dodge 116,822 Caravan
Chrysler 110,411 Town and Country

Close enough to 2:1. Sorry, don’t let the facts get in the way of a good blatant untruth.

BTW I had a Plymouth Voyager as an inherited company car once – not something I would buy, but no issues either. One of the people who worked for me there had a new Honda Odyssey. Nothing to brag about compared to the Plymouth that I could see and I am critical.

By: chuckgoolsbee

chuckgoolsbee — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:49:52 +0000

Dave M: (about a VW microbus) “would you really want to be involved in a front end crash while driving one?”

Even at their utmost top speed, there would be no damage whatsoever. The average fat american can sprint the 100m faster than a VW Bulli.

–chuck

By: mhines

mhines — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 20:48:39 +0000

Spot on review. I have a ‘94 Plymouth Grand Voyager inherited from my mom, who in turn bought it from her sister, who bought it new with all the bells and whistles.
The rear door fell off its rails a few years ago and now it’s permanently closed, the rear wiper hasn’t worked since the Clinton administration, the tape player stopped working about 2002, the speakers are wearing out, and then there was the water pump blowing out for no apparent reason, but the beast holds everything a college kid ever needed and is still reliable enough to drive back home every once in a while without fear of being stranded. And if things go from bad to worse, the seats are very comfortable to sleep in.

By: eggsalad

eggsalad — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:59:12 +0000

I had a ‘92, a Plymouth. I avoided all the slushbox problems by finding the rare 5-speed manual transmission model. Build quality was crap, but it got 25-30mpg, and had a whole lot of room.

I kinda miss it.

By: charleywhiskey

charleywhiskey — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:24:14 +0000

Ford, Dodge and Chevy all had popular minivans in the early 60’s but space and driver safety were badly compromised by their rear wheel drive configuration. Chrysler’s front drive layout was the first design to provide a flat load floor, three row seating and suitability for normal garage parking. My ’91 Grand Caravan with the 3.3 engine was great for long family trips. Two adults and two adult size teenagers with a week’s worth of ski gear could comfortably make the trip from Southern California to Park City averaging over 70 mph at 22 mpg.

By: davinp

davinp — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:20:18 +0000

My father had a red 1986 Dodge Caravan SE. By the time it was 10 years old, the A/C broke, the transmission had to be replaced and the mirror knob broke off. Those seats were very heavy to remove.

By: windswords

windswords — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:12:22 +0000

Mike and RF: Hydramatic is a GM tradeword for their brand of transmission. It is not the same as Chrysler’s 4 spd.

By: Richard Chen

Richard Chen — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:11:14 +0000

The Mazda5 is a few inches narrower than a 1st gen/JDM Odyssey or original Chrysler minivan. The Ody has the nice Magic Seat which gives you a well behind the 3rd row, the Chrysler had removable 2nd and 3rd rows.

By: NickR

NickR — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:10:41 +0000

Dave M. the Kia Rondo is in the same ballpark. Not an endorsement, just an observation.

By: jpcavanaugh

jpcavanaugh — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:58:02 +0000

Dave M:

I wish they made a new Gen 1 Odyssey…to me it’s a perfect size and doesn’t need a billion doodads.

They do. It’s called a Mazda 5. I think this is the closest thing out there to the original 4 cyl minivans.

By: Dave M.

Dave M. — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:50:06 +0000

And the VW microbus came out in 1950.

Not even in the same ball park except in interior room. And like the Corvair and Falcon vans, would you really want to be involved in a front end crash while driving one?

The Caravan/Voyager were a brilliant idea (modern amenities) in an attractive package. Too bad about the reliability, but as others have said – there’s a reason why Toyota and Honda rule this market as well.

I wish they made a new Gen 1 Odyssey…to me it’s a perfect size and doesn’t need a billion doodads.

By: jpcavanaugh

jpcavanaugh — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:42:02 +0000

Gotta give Chrysler its due here. Nobody had a worthy competitor for the Caravan/Voyager until the 98 Honda Odyssey. GM and Ford’s first read drive minis (Astro and Aerostar) did the job for those who needed to tow trailers, but that was about it. GM’s second effort (the dustbuster vans) were awful and Ford’s Windstar was closer, but still no real competitor. The Japaneese tried more carlike versions (Mazda MPV or Honda’s first-gen Odyssey) or vehicles that were just plain odd (Toyota Previa). The Caravan/Voyager led the pack on features and configuration through the last generation with the stow & go seats. This was the first MoPar with mass market appeal on a sustained basis since the 40s. I think that the new version is the first new generation ChryCo minivan that fails to jump out in front of its competitors. Odyssey and Sienna have caught up, but it took over 20 years.

By: argentla

argentla — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:41:45 +0000

@ Mike: “Hydramatic” is a General Motors trade name. The Chrysler four-speed auto was called Ultradrive.

@ Thinx: The Chrysler minivans originated conceptually with a Ford concept called Mini Max, in the mid-seventies. Hal Sperlich and Lee Iacocca were big on it then, but they couldn’t convince Henry Ford II that it was worth the tooling investment. When first Sperlich and then Iacocca landed at Chrysler, they revived it there. So, it wasn’t an entirely new concept even in the states.

By: Thinx

Thinx — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:34:58 +0000

The Espace and Voyager hit the market within months of each other. It is obvious they were both in development at the same time – so it’s kinda pointless to brag about who invented it.

However, the first generation Espace was a lot more innovative (swiveling seats, center seat that turned into a desk, etc.) in its usage of space than the Chryco products.

If you really want to look at who did it first, the Nissan Prairie was sold in Japan and Europe in 1981 – front engine, FWD, 5+2 seating. Probably the precursor to the Renault Espace, Chrysler Voyager and Mitsubishi Chariot products a few years later.

In the late 1970s, Ital Design actually introduced a 7 seat FWD minivan concept based on the Lancia Gamma platform – but some genius at Fiat thought something like that would never sell so it was thrown away.

By: LamborghiniZ

LamborghiniZ — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:29:35 +0000

From the ages of 16-18 I piloted a 1999 Isuzu Oasis, which some of you might or might not know is a rebadged first generation Honda Odyssey. This means that I was driving an immensely reliable mini-van complete with a 150 bhp 4-cyl. engine and 4 conventional doors. It was forest green. Pangs of nostalgia are creeping upon me as I type this…

For a little under a year after that, I drove a 2001 Prius.

And since February, I’ve been driving my pride and joy, a 2001 BMW 540i, M-Sport, with the 6-speed manual. Despite the apparent upgrade, there’s nothing quite like hooking up with your high-school girlfriend in the back of a minivan..

By: windswords

windswords — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:27:04 +0000

NickR:

“I don’t know which minivan engine is the offender, but from my experience this generation of Chrysler minivan has remarkable knack for burning oil. You can usually smell them before you see them. And when you do catch up to them, they are invariably obstructing traffic flow.”

That would be the Mitsubishi 3.0L V6. Very well known problem (on Mitsubishi vehicles as well). Allpar.com has a page dedicated to it. Caused by premature valve wear. The problem was corrected in 91 or 92 by using a new part. Motors with the heads re-done can get the new part so it doesn’t happen again. The Chrysler built engines were much more reliable. I had a 94 Grand Caravan with the Chrysler 3.3 and the infamous Ultradrive transmission. Great van. Never let us down. Most of the transmissions performed reliably, but failure rate was abnormally high (like certain Honda transmissions) especially if you put the wrong fluid in them. By the looks of the TSB’s issued the problems were pretty much take care of by the mid 90’s.

By: AndrewDederer

AndrewDederer — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:06:00 +0000

The VW Microbus anticipated much of the layout (especially the sliding door). Mechanically though, it was ancient. Thus no flat-floor cargo/passenger compartment, no front crumple zone, and no heat. A forerunner, but definately not all the way there.

My family had a microbus, that story is in the “nostalgia” section.

By: AJ

AJ — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:00:28 +0000

By: Steve_K

Steve_K — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:59:12 +0000

It boasted a transverse-front wheel-drive layout… Boasted FWD? BOASTED??? I’m getting dizzy…

*thud*

By: NickR

NickR — Mon, 15 Dec 2008 16:57:04 +0000

I don’t know which minivan engine is the offender, but from my experience this generation of Chrysler minivan has remarkable knack for burning oil. You can usually smell them before you see them. And when you do catch up to them, they are invariably obstructing traffic flow.