The Legacy, which is also a 32k car, and the Acura TSX, a Japanese Honda Accord in drag with an anemic four cylinder engine, are not even in the same class as a 328 or 325, and they certainly are not “amazing” cars. If I wanted to save money, I would take a one year old 3 series, which would have three years of free maintenance included and a 100k mile CPO warranty over any of the cars you mention. And you would even get a little blue and white roundel thrown in for free.

And as far as value goes, many people on this board fail to understand that, if you are intending to purchase, a $5000-$8000 premium for the BMW is not a deal breaker to many. And if you lease, and if you do your homework, with BMW subvented rates, it is possible to drive a BMW for a lot less than you think. And I don’t buy the “lease queen” nonsense. A very large portion of individuals who drive luxury marks lease. This is not unique to BMW.

If I did want to impress people with what I am driving, I can’t think of one BMW I would want to own … in my opinion, Bangle ruined their designs and sadly his influence continues to infect things like the new Accord, the recent Camry etc. If I wanted a performance car, I wouldn’t even look at BMW.

For around the price of a 325 or 328, I would also have to go for a Subaru Legacy GT, Infiniti G35, or Acura TSX. I think they are much better buys for the same price.

I have no experience with the newer models, but the E46 3 Series (99-05?) are pretty easy to work on; granted I’ve never done anything super complex, but it’s the only car I’ve ever owned where I can do an oil change while wearing a suit and not worry about getting dirty… The filter is accessible from the top of the engine, and a fluid-extractor clears out the oil nicely. That being said, I’ve never worn a suit to change the oil!

“You forgot to mention details like the cleverly designed cupholders which bang right against your knees when they’re folded out.”

I agree with you. The cup holders are crap on the 3. I don’t have I-Drive or an automatic transmission, so why should I be punished? I didn’t buy the car for it’s cup holders.

L47_V8,

“I’m no GM defender, and I can certainly appreciate a BMW for what it is, but let’s be honest with ourselves: GM supplied BMW with automatic transmissions for years.”

You are correct. I misspoke. I was more concerned with the drive train issues that plagued the last CTS-V.

Although I’m not a professional mechanic and have only worked on 1 Bimmer, I have to respectfully disagree. The I6 engines make work in that area a snap. Tons of room all around. I admit there are a few areas of the car that make me realize the UAW is (or was) much more powerful than their German counterparts, but overall most everything is in a logical, serviceable location, and comes apart and goes together quite nicely with the right tools and instructions.

Sounds like the investment in the girlfriend was a good one.

I have had my 325 for over three years and it has not been in the shop for anything other than routine maintenance. Plenty of people buy a BMW in an attempt to project a certain image, but this is hardly unique to BMW. Take a look at the market for woman’s purses.

brapoza

When BMW released the previous gen M3 that was something! The same with the 335. When BMW released the 330 with a 255HP I6 I thought that is a hell of an engine!
But the 328… why would I spend 32 grand on this?

I am a firm believer that when you buy a car you shouldn’t simply settle for a good car. I believe there are great cars out there for any price range. Settling for good or the status quote is for sheep. I want amazing. BMW makes amazing cars but for 32,000 the 328 falls far short.

When we became a 2 car family again, I bought (leased) a new Volvo. I would love a sharp handling, sports car but my commute is 60 MPH for about 5 miles then 35-45 for the remaining 10. All I want is something comfortable, V8 power when needed and room to haul furniture and any other crap my wife buys.

The X6 does intrigue me, though. Too bad it’s a)built in South Carolina and b) will likely be toast by the time my XC90 lease is up. I wouldn’t mind a 5-er wagon but I really don’t need AWD. Ah, decisions. I will spend the next 2 years shoppping, and waiting…

Oh and one of my buddies has a 3-4 year old 3-series. He got laid off last week.

I suspect there is lots of behind the scenes corruption and money under the table in regards to automotive and magazine relationships.

American print magazines are appalling compared to an English magazine. American magazines never have anything bad or negative to say about anything. Go to a place with a semi large collection of magazines for sale(Barnes & Nobles?). Look in the motorcycle section. Get a couple issues of those sport bike magazines that are printed in the UK. Cusswords, nudity, and they even complain and criticize about products! They tell it like it is. American magazines are so non partial. They don’t tell the truth. It’s just 200 pages of ads. It’s like an infomercial you read. Non stop materialism.

Too see how really different things are, pick up a copy of the above mentioned UK printed sport bike magazines.

There was a time not far back when bmws were starting to get a rep for having a lot of electrical problems. Anymore, the only ones I know of still driving bmws are those driving them for image and those driving them not knowing of how they’ve changed and aren’t the best. Certain movies of recent years may have glorified these cars a bit too.

Is the resale still appalling on these cars? It used to take an enormous hit right off the bat.

I am currently in the market for a new car, and spent a weekend in December driving the 328i, C-Class, A4 and CTS.

The CTS is a great car, and the ambient lighting on the floors, doors and dash is a nice touch. The car is smooth, but becomes unstable as the speeds reach 90 MPH.

The C was cheaply made, and reminded me of a Chrysler interior. The A4 was nice, but was a fancy VW. The Infiniti was a non-starter based on the terrible interior.

I was going to go with the C-Class, but the 328i was by far a nicer car. The dealer experience was better, the interior materials were nicer, and the free maintenance will result in ~ $1,400 in lower operating costs.

Good article, but BMW is still the Ultimate Driving Machine. BTW I also have a 2004 Saab 9-3 Linear.

Today though I’m a bit more skeptical. The electronics issues that Eric pointed out have indeed cast a substantial negative effect on the company’s image. To put it in a blunt way, BMW will experience issues in much the same way that Mercedes has once it hits the five year old mark and beyond.

They are INCREDIBLY difficult to work on. I’ve known two fellows who own highly popular shops just give up on the brand entirely. That’s saying something given that the profit for their products is usually far above the average. The risk of finding a parasite amongst this brand is simply too strong at the sales.

You always have to step up to the bigger engines. The low end model is always slow. No nicer way to put it. You don’t need M, but the X5 with the six is just too much metal for too little motor, no matter how nice the motor is. The remedy is to spend close to 20k more for the v-8, and now you can buy TWO Acura MDX’s that are 95% as good.

Same for the 5 series. You need the turbo six and sport package to make it “go”. The base version is for the guy who “wants a BMW”, not the enthusiast who understand “why BMW”.

I drive a 330i Sport Manual and got a 325 loaner, 4wd automatic. Bog Slow again, but the majority of 3’s ARE the small motor with an automatic. The good engineering, bank vault quiet and lack of vibration, etc. are all there but BMW squeezes you for that last little bit of fun quotient…

Of Course, BMW prices are as well designed as the car. The slow version with no options will always cost the same as the moderately kitted opposition. Once you insert the motor of the opposition, you are 7 k over it, and by the time satnav and the $500 ipod jack have been added, you are 10-15k over the “opposition”. Things like seat heaters and lumbar supports are hidden in much bigger option packages. While others do this as well, BMW has raised it to a science. To get a seat heater in the X5, you can’t get the base interior. You have to get the premium package, leather, etc. Meanwhile, they sell every one they can make.

As far as the 3 series goes, you do get a car designed for a longer service life than a lesser car. If you keep your cars or drive them into the ground, this is a clear advantage. If you lease and trade, then you are buying something you won’t use.

My complaint with the Bangled cars has to do with the interior, which was clearly cheapened from E46 to E90. I like the exterior, but a very sturdy and functional interior was changed for the worse. The Unique selling Point of BMW is that they spend the money to do it right, not cheap out where they think you won’t see. No one use interior clips, no mystery vibrations, soundproofing everywhere.

Last, Consumer Reports is NOT an enthusiast book. I know a few folks who work there. My suggestion that radar detectors should be tested there was met with a laugh and description of the “powers that be”. Other than service history of a Camcord, they are useless.

BTW, I have 150 k on my 03, and have replaced tires, shocks, brakes, and the control arm bushings, which are a wear item. The interior is quiet, the seats are not yet sacked, and the worst is a bit of cosmetic wear on the shift. I have changed the fluids (BMW’s alleged lifetime maintenance is not to be believed for those who own, not lease). My mechanic says he has seen 400k on the E46 “on the original engine and manual transmission”. (BMW Automatics crap out at 100 k mark like clockwork, which is why most hardcore prop-heads only buy manuals, and why we didn’t accept an M5 auto-step-whocares-tronic)

That right there just shows your opinion of Toyota. You calling the IS-F boring shows that no matter what Toyota makes, you will likely consider it boring. You will probably call the Lexus supercar boring when it comes out.

I live in Canada, but I have European roots. I have many friends and family in Europe in several countries and many of them tell me Toyotas are popular and in some places the young people like Toyotas.

I also have Japanese friends that know exactly what the tuner scene is like in Japan, so please don’t be silly and speak of Hyundai having an sizable aftermarket in Japan. Hyundai is a joke in the tuner scene in Japan, just like it is here in North America.

I don’t speak Dutch, but the Dutch man test driving the IS-F in this video sure seems to like it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GQMcifOsRSg

Also, to those talking about “the little details” in BMW models, I have only one thing to say. Go sit in an Audi or a Lexus and then sit in a comparable BMW and tell me your opinion of BMW details. BMW models just pale in comparison to Lexus or Audi when it comes to little details or attention to detail.

You can talk all the want about BMW’s handling and driving experience. There is nothing wrong with that. But it’s silly to be talking about the reliability, attention to detail, or luxury of BMWs when the competition has BMW clearly beat in all those areas.

The Cayman would be mine at equal prices, even though the transmission was nowhere near as good as the GM auto in the 335. However, even after a 10K+ discount, the Cayman was over 8K over the 335 (with every option except the brain-dead I-drive). I also had trouble seeing out of the Cayman.

So I got the 335 and it works for me. The G37 was only an announcement, or I’d have given it a shot.

My trade-in was a 98 CLK. The car before that was a 95 M3 with a 5-spd manual. The M3 did very bad things to my knees. The car before the M3 was a 87 944s.

Aside from the 944, the 335 is the most fun car I’ve ever had.

I am too old to be a yuppie.

I also think that the BMW reputation is based on only a few, top-of-the-line models.

While a 335i is admitedly a very good car, the lesser 3 series without the sport package, better tires, and auto trans, are no where near as good. And I think what causes people like myself to pause is why would I spend an 8 to 10 thousand dollar premium to get the good stuff on a BMW when I can go out and buy an Infiniti G37 for that money?

Those that say there is a big difference in the way a BMW (with the good stuff) handles compared to a G37, must be EXTREMELY sensitive to the car. I’ve driven both, back-to-back, and I can’t find that big of a difference and I have more than a little experience with high performance cars and autocrossing.

A case can be made that the 335i is still the best in its class and the car rags tend to test this car, not the rest of the 3 Series line that does not measure up to the competition. Their strategy seems to be based on trying to use a few class leaders to maintain their reputation and make money on the lesser vehicles.

Problem is that the distance between their class leaders and the rest of the pack is vanishing. People are making a big deal of the 135i (for reasons I don’t understand, given it is not that much lighter than the 335), but isn’t the new EVO and WRX STI with new levels of civility much more exciting, especially for the money??? If you are trying to sell vehicles based on a few class leaders, they have to clearly lead the class and right now, they aren’t.

The few people I know who’ve had the pleasure of owning, or leasing a BMW, new and old, enjoyed every moment they spent behind the wheel and love their cars, even if it gives them a few problems now and then. Even my friend’s sister, who had a dilapidated ‘91 325i (which sucummbed from a snapped timing belt) loved her car. She thought something was wrong with her new Yaris because it felt “unstable” compared to the BMW.

I’m currently in the market for a new car. As a prospective 135i owner, it’s not reassuring to be riding in a 328i when it goes into limp mode or notice the 750i next to me with all of its warning lights lit, or having someone describe the harrowing experience of driving from LA to Phoenix with dead trailing arm bushings in an M3…