I was talking to my Toyota salesman about it (they also have a Scion showroom on the site), and he was telling me about that dichotomy – all the adverts, brochures, etc are for younger buyers but most of his sales of Xa/Xb models were to older buyers. This was just before the new models came out so I don’t know if that has changed.

Again, it is one data point, but remember you are selling to a bunch of frugal New Englanders, and they must perceive more value there than in the traditional Toyota brand.

You are assuming that this is the case based upon the weight of the vehicle, but a review of the marketing and promotional effort disproves this argument.

The marketing effort is clearly aimed toward young people. Hip hop/ R&B soundtracks, launching virtual vehicles in the Second Life videogame, the “love it/ loathe it” campaign, their guerilla marketing events are all aimed at twentysomethings and younger, and none are aimed at an older crowd. Five minutes spent looking at Scion xB marketing materials make it crystal clear that oldsters are not particularly wanted or sought after — they have Toyotas to sell to those people.

Again, there is a difference between targeting a demographic and getting the demographics who aren’t targeted to cooperate. Just as long as youth is more valued than age, there will be many products aimed at youth that will also reach older people. The manufacturer may not particularly want that outcome, but it is the consumer who ultimately decides whether or not the product is desirable, even if that is against the rules.

This time Toyota intentionally went to a more SUV-styled design in order to make these vehicles more appealing to the middle aged folks and beyond. You can debate it all you like. But that’s my understanding at this point. We’ll see if I’m right.

By the way. the General’s total sales were up as well as RETAIL sales. GM continues to reduce not only rental sales but incentives as welll.

Indeed. This is a point that I’ve brought up before. Now with the Chevy Traverse coming, it will only get worse. I think Acadia and Outlook sales will drop further when the Traverse hits the market. The Highlander has a chance in 2008 of outselling all of GM’s full-size CUVs *combined*. The Highlander came close for 2007, and for most of 2007 the older dated Highlander was on sale. The new redesigned model will have it’s first full sales year for 2008.

SMJ is correct. Scion’s target demographic is clearly young hipsters. Scion is positioned to be a gateway brand to Toyota, targeting young buyers who perceive the main brand as being a bit frumpy for them.

Look at the xB section of the Scion website, and you’ll find hip hop soundtracks and happy young people, sans children and grownups. The ad campaign is similar, with this as one example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baFYr8F5shI When the xB and xD were given a market test debut to selected customers at a pre-launch in Miami, official photos of the event were notably packed with Gen Y’ers, with none including their parents.

The problem with targeting a demographic is that in the process of targeting one group, you may end up appealing to another, whether or not you want to. As it turns out, a lot of the same features that make practical economy cars appeal to young people also make them attractive to retirees and older people. And since a lot of older folks want to feel youthful, some of them are drawn to the brand as a way to find it.

One reason that Scion was created was that previous efforts to create a youth car, such as the Echo, failed miserably and often backfired, appealing to the hipsters’ grandparents more than the kids. So they invented an entirely new brand, instead, hiring a bunch of young Americans to figure out how to reach them. Toyota can’t bar sales to older folks, but I bet you that they would if they could.

It wasn’t me…I was as confused as everyone else on this question.

KixStart: As I said, a comparison with Chevy would be more interesting. The median household income of a Toyota buyer, I have read, is noticeably higher than for a Chevy buyer. How does the median age look?

I believe that the median age of Chevy buyers may be below that of Toyota buyers…a fair number of younger folks buy the Cobalt and Colorado as “starter” vehicles.

jthorner: Honda has made a rare mis-step with the new Accord in my view. Making an already big enough car even bigger AND going backwards on fuel economy is completely out of step with the market.

Around here dealer stocks lean heavily toward the fully-loaded V-6 EXL sedans that list between $27-29,000. With the previous generation, dealers seemed to stock more four-cylinder models versus the V-6.

Not the smartest move when buyers are facing $3-a-gallon for regular, higher food prices, higher heating oil prices, a housing bust and a recession…

i don’t think honda missed the mark with the accord. as others have said dealers are marking them up (still) and a good friend of mine that sells hondas says he can sell as many as he gets. regarding gas mileage, according to fueleconomy.gov the 08 4 cyl auto gets one less mpg than the 07, whereas the 08 6 cylinder auto gets one more mpg than the 07, so it’s a wash, not a step backwards as you stated. the 07 fuel economy ratings are adjusted so that they meet the new EPA rating system and are thus comparable to the 08 numbers.

“Scion is the vanguard-thinking, hip-marketing branch of Toyota that produces cars for the young. As a brand, Scion’s demographics are heavily into the 30-somethings, and many vehicles purchased by 50-plus buyers are really being bought for their teen-aged kids. The Scion age profile shows that 42 percent of their sales are to the 36-55 group and 38 percent are bought by the 16-35 demographic. An average age of around 30 puts the marque well under Toyota’s average buyer of 46.”

Jan. 04, 2008

The average buyer is around 30 now for Scion. :)

KixStart, GM does make a whole lifecycle of cars. They just use eight different nameplates (in North America) instead of Toyota’s three.

As I said, a comparison with Chevy would be more interesting. The median household income of a Toyota buyer, I have read, is noticeably higher than for a Chevy buyer. How does the median age look?

Are Camry owners just growing older or is Toyota raiding Buick?

I don’t know what middle aged citizens would buy Scions, but my guess is that they buy it under their name for their college-aged kids. Usually college kids don’t have enough credit under their belt to buy new cars. The end result would be skewed census toward middle age people, even though they are not the acual one’s driving Scions.

The difference in age has more to do with Toyota offering vehicles in ‘younger’ segments of the market such as the compact SUV (RAV4), midsized SUV (4Runner), subcompact (Yaris), and compact (Corolla) segments. Buick does not field any vehicles in those segments.

If you looked at comparing Buick’s product line with similar vehicles from Toyota, the demographics are surprisingly similar. Or to put it another way, there’s a reason why the dahboard knobs and buttons on a Camry have become bigger over the years.

If you want a ‘young’ brand, check out Hyundai or Suzuki. Toyota has pretty much decided to screw the demographic issue across the board. Even the new Scions are geared towards the middle aged and beyond crowd.

Honda has made a rare mis-step with the new Accord in my view. Making an already big enough car even bigger AND going backwards on fuel economy is completely out of step with the market. I think the same product planners who cooked up the V-6 Hybrid Accord might have done the design brief for this one. Very unlike Honda to miss the market so badly.

I’ll accept 52 to 57 on your word and that’s a reasonably similar range.

But that’s just the Camry. That other link of yours is telling. By brand, Toyota is kicking Buick’s ass, with the average Toyota buyer at 47 and the average Buick buyer at 55. Well, not literally kicking Buick’s ass; it’s not nice to abuse the elderly. :-)

A more interesting comparison would be Chevrolet to Toyota. The GM buyer’s average age is 48. Buick is low-volume, so it won’t pull up the average too much (I presume weighting by units), so Chevy could clock in very competitively with Toyota or perhaps even a little younger.

In fact, it would be nice to see all brands broken out. Scion? Lexus? Cadillac? I’ll have to look around.

Toyota is #1 in California and therefore California’s big auto recession has an impact on them. That explains a slight decline nationwide, while they are still gaining market share in the rest of the country.

Toyota Tundra is now the #1 half-ton pickup truck in California. What’s good enough for California, is good enough for the country, right?

http://www.automotivedigest.com/view_art.asp?articlesID=21353