Ha! So these rivetheads are going to manage an Old Navy store instead? Gimme a break. Even at $16 (and you have no source to back up your story) it attracts plenty of employees… what documented tales of worker shortages have you heard coming out of Toyota or Honda plants?

And frankly, If I had 1000 people show up for a job fair, I would start the wages low too!

I think Toyota workers make on average 60,000 US a year.

That ain’t chump change where those plants are located.

A supplier for the new Toyota plant in Woodstock, Ontario is Toyota Boshoku. They make seats and some other stuff.

They had a job fair for a possible 330 jobs.

They had 1000 people show up. Apparently, the Toyota name made people think the job paid in the “auto worker” range of 28-30 dollars an hour.

When they announced they would be paying 16 dollars an hour for 2 years and then raising it to 18 dollars an hour, people started filing out.

With not enough interested workers from the 1000 from the job fair, the company started advertising for workers.

After months of advertising, they are still looking for employees.

Some people have already quit. Others aren’t interested in going through the series of job interviews, and a lot of people aren’t interested in quitting their job and “hoping” to make the transition from temp worker to full time.

The company has lowered it’s hiring standards to “some high school” now, as anyone with an education isn’t interested.

So, anyone who thinks people will line up for auto worker jobs that pay 30,000 per year, are sadly mistaken.

Why should people work in a hot, difficult, tenuous, mind numbing job for 16 dollars an hour, when they can work in an air conditioned mall for roughly the same money?

Lasorda has known Buzz since he was a kid. The CAW hammered out a lot of the CAW breakup from the UAW in Lasorda’s dad’s basement.

Buzz is obviously coming out now telling us that he knew what was going on all along. But to make the above lucid points he must also accept more blame for the problems his overpaid workers have created. He also must get with the picture on the corporate welfare that auto companies are addicted to here in Canada. As a taxpayer that has paid hundreds of thousands in personal and business taxes over the years, I get sick when I hear that the GM/FORD/CRY want more handouts. WTF, does money grow on trees? Why don’t we subsidize an industry that has a hope?
And by the way, who gives a crap if the execs make a lot of money. Every industry has this problem right now, why should the auto sector be different?

What role does the UAW and its work rules have to do with the decline of the Big 3?

What is your annual pension and post retirement benefits from the CAW? (If asking GM execs about their pensions is fair game…)

Why are the Asian and European transplant assy facilities located for the most part in right to work states in the US south, not Canada?

That seems very short sighted to me, and yet there is a lot of praise for Buzz and condemnation for the big 2.8 CEO’s, is there really that much difference?

I totally agree, and I wouldn’t trust any union boss to make the correct change for my coffee at a 7-Eleven store.

Just because he’s saying the words that so many others here want to hear…that’s no reason to suddenly develop respect for him.

It’s this assumption that I find galling. The Domestics have proven time and time again that making huge profits does nothing for the downturn that’s inevitably coming. They don’t plan ahead. They don’t spend the money that’s necessary to make good product. And they don’t really want to improve anything, they just want to create the appearance that things have improved.

Mikey has it right. Workers work, management makes decisions, and workers are stuck with whatever happens. If things go badly, those that make the decisions can change the rules and save themselves. Workers can’t.

Even if the workers made $30k, they’d still be out of a job because the Cdn dollar still is higher than the US dollar, gas prices have risen, and the US is in recession.

The real question is, why didn’t the domestics spend MORE money on their workers so that they could become more valuable and help make bigger improvements in quality and efficiency year on year? My answer? They were just interested in pocketing the money and letting tomorrow take care of tomorrow.

Enron. Have I made myself clear?

whatdoiknow wrote: “The truth of the matter for both the UAW and the CAW is that the cost of their labor has exceeded the value of the work they have performed for GM, Ford, and Chysler for well over the past 30 years!”

It’s not the UAW’s or CAW’s choice to build cars that suck.

GM puts something like 20 hours of labor into each car. If we assume that’s the princely sum of $100/hour, that’s $2K per vehicle… not a crushing burden, even if Toyota’s cost is merely $1K in labor per vehicle (I don’t know what it is). Home Field Advantage for the domestics is that 40% of buyers STILL will not consider an Asian car (study cited on TTAC a few months back). In the market, this translates into a price premium for the domestic car… if the cars are otherwise perceived as equivalent.

There’s the rub. The cars aren’t perceived as equal. Over the past 20 years, 25% of buyers have decided that they will no longer consider a domestic car (same TTAC article) because the cars are not equal. If GM was building cars just as good and reliable as Toyota or Honda’s are perceived to be (and really are, if you ask me), GM would be happily making money.

This situation has much, much less to do with union labor than with the effort and direction set by GM management. Do they have a quality focus? Do they have a commitment to giving the customer solid value? Do they discipline their dealers when necessary? Do they offer the right car in the right market at the right time? Do they work with suppliers to ensure excellent logistics and a supply of excellent parts? Do they have excellent design and engineering practices? Do they have flexible manufacturing facilities?

Toyota’s and Honda’s advantages aren’t in labor costs… they’re in the way management focusses the company on doing the job right and delivering a car that will please the customer even after the warranty runs out.

Lets face it, do you think its fair for workers to get paid $70,000+/yr to do something that probably is worth maybe $30,000/yr?

Maybe not, but that unfairness pales in comparison to executives pulling down eight figure salaries for doing things that are worth less than nothing to the company.

The problem is that many UAW/ CAW worker are still building cars using yesterdays technology. BOF chassis, OHV engines, etc. This is legacy engineering that has been or should have been perfected decades ago. Other than the parts being heavier I can believe that it is more difficult to assembly a Tahoe than a much smaller, with far less tolerance Accord. Needless to say I bet there are many more parts in a VTEC 24v V6 than a ohv v8.

Personally I have worked under the hood of RWD v8 powered traditional American cars and a few accords. You can easily reach just about anything under the hood of RWD car yet I can barely fit my fingers in between parts on a Honda. NOw I know building and repairing cars are two different animals but I think you get my point.

My point is that no one is going to look out for your best interest IF you are willing to do so yourself.
The UAW/ CAW needs to do some real soul searching and honesty ask themselves what is in the best interest of their members and enact policies that work towards achiving those goal.

Setting a price for labor that is uncompetitive with that which the competition is paying is a sure-fire way to market your memebers out of their jobs.

All of that talk about “well management does not give a damn” is a moot point when the rank and file union memebers are on the ropes. Yes management does NOT care about the workers, when have they ever? Those are the the guys that will be jumping from the plane with golden parachutes while the UAW/ CAW are setting themselves up to crash and burn. Unionand their memebers ARE major stake holders in this game. The UAW/ CAW were always willing to threaten the automakers with “work actions” when they demanded an increase in pay and beneifits, with that siad they had the same power the threaten the big3 over the lack of quality and popularity of the stuff they put their own “Union Rep” behind.

What the UAW/ CAW has failed to do is properly place the blame at the feet of management. Rather than play the role of Domestic Fanboys the UAW/ CAW should have been one of the loudest complainers about the lack of quality in the products they were being “forced” to build. Bad products DO NOT save union jobs in the face of non-union competition (THAT ARE ACTUALLY BUILDER BETTER PRODUCTS).
What the unions did do over the past 30 years is join into the stupid camp that blamed the consumers and competitiors for the lack of AMERICAN interest in the products that paid for the food on their tables.

Somehow UAW/ CAW memebers did not see a major problem when they were being pay 2x and 3x the amount of the workers that were actually building the better and/ or more popular automobiles. Do not the non-union autoworker share the same type of burden that the union workers do? IS it any less stressful to assembly a Camry in Kentucy than a Impala in Oshawa? HOw do you justify the UAW/ CAW pay when the products you build are NOT selling and there is NO PROFIT being made?

To claim that a rank and file worker in a underperforming and unprofitable “PRIVATE” venture deserves to make $70,000 just because they work hard is simply a bad arguement that does NOT carry much weight in the real world. This outward sense of entitlement was born in a very unique era of our history that WILL NOT be repeated again and is no longer valid and has not been for 30 years.

I want more of this interview.

hey – how about posting the transcript for the interview?

Sorry buddy… TTAC is not the place for Q&A.

The concept of fairness is definitely in the realm of point of view. Ask anyone if they would rather do their current job for $30k/y or $70k/y. You know the answer to that.

One of the consequence of the lock-in of wages imposed by the union is not that the workers are overpaid, it is that the competitors, not employing union workforce, are allowed to pay their worker less than union ones: they have a competitive advantage.

However, you can’t blame the unions for doing their job. Fairness is not an issue. Even I would pick the $70K+ salary.

As for the line workers, indeed, they probably have no input in the design/standard/quality of the products they put together. Blame the designers/engineers/accountants/committees that participate in the creation of the products, not the people who tighten the bolts, in a, as Mikey told us so eloquently, mind numbing, soul destroying, back breaking way.

If, say, Mulally was to step down, and provide a similar interview but from the opposite side of the coin, how many of you would be praising him, nay wishing he would write for TTAC? As refreshing as Buzz’s honesty is, and for as much as an interesting read it creates, it doesn’t absolve him from being part of the problem (to an extent).

That said, well done by Samir and all at TTAC for producing this piece.