Actually, not true. The VW Quantum in the US was actually a Passat in other markets, and the Jetta was called the Vento (Mk3) and Bora (MK4) in EU and other markets while always being called a Jetta in the US.

nino, Toyota will change the name of a given product if it has bad sales. Period. In this way at least, they are no different than the domestics.

Honda has a unique tradition. They always have niche products (Element, Ridgeline, CRX, DelSol, S2000, NSX) that simply stick with the model. Once the model ends they won’t re-use the name… even if the new release is comparable to some degree. I’ve always thought this is the right way of doing it.

Unfortunately they do the exact opposite with Acura. People were buying an Integra and Legend specifically because of that model’s recognition with the public. It had a great name while the ‘Acura’ brand wasn’t as immediately recognizable to many folks. Honda foolishly thought that people should buy an ‘Acura’ instead of a specific model. They were concerned of Acura’s lack of cache in the NA market as opposed to Lexus, and they therefore decided to squelch both names.

If you want a brand that indeed follows the name continuity in the market place, it would be VW. The Golf, Passat and Jetta have been named the same throughout the world and their history stretches for a very long time as well. The only variance that existed with VW is with the Rabbit/Golf name cross, and a bit of variance with the Vanagon/Transporter. Again, not really that much.

Thanks for taking the time to respond.

Having looked at ALL the available Rental companies i was suprised at how much the “One Way Drop Fees” vary.

Dollar $800 + Tax
Budget $500 + Tax
Hertz $1200
Avis $800 + Tax
Alamo $500 + Tax
National $199 + Tax

So at the moment National is winning… However the range of cars is not the best by a long way!!
G6, Impala, Lucerne, DTS, Equinox, TrailBlazer..

So Impala or Lucerne it is then…..

Even if we are prepared to pay the higher “Drop Fees” the range of cars available at Chicago O’Hare is limited according to the websites.

Any Ideas??

A client of mine in her late 40s, always aspired to own a Buick Electra/Park Avenue (OK, she’s a little touched). She finally fulfilled her desire by buying a 1993 Park Avenue brand new. She has upgraded twice by buying Park Avenues without ever shopping any other car. When Buick came out with the Lucerne, she was devestated as she wouldn’t have her beloved Park Avenue anymore to upgrade to.

She was recently involved in a major accident that wiped out her car. Having no more Park Avenues to buy, she went out and bought…….a Toyota Avalon based on the advice of a friend (not me).

Knowing her pretty well, had Buick kept the Park Avenue name in SOME form (even as a trim level that it once was), she would not have hesitated and bought it.

That thread of logic simply doesn’t work

I beg to differ.

The Supra name WILL grace any future Toyota luxury sports car as will the Celica name if and when Toyota gets back into the two door sporty coupe segment. One of the reasons that Toyota uses the “Solara” name for its Camry two door is that it isn’t sporty enough to carry the Celica badge and there was a faction at Toyota that wanted the Solara to be called the Celica instead.

The Previa was a BAD product in the US and hence the name change.

The Paseo and Cressida names in the US were seen as marketing hinderances that didn’t go over well with customers.

You have a better point with regards to Acura abbandoning their Legend and Integra monikers as both those names carry much brand value. But I’ve been told that by Acura going to letter names, it was able to better distinguish itself from its stablemate Honda vehicles that kept regular names.

GM may not be much for small cars in the North American market. But their full-sized models are among the best in the industry. I wouldn’t think twice about buying, selling or driving one given the right prior owner.

Makes you wonder why GM would give up all that brand equity?

I think one of the problems with GM is highlighted by the Buick Lucerne; While the car is very stylish and has a decent interior, they produced this car with an antique base powertrain (the 200HP 3.8 pushrod V6 and 4 speed automatic) that put it immediately behind the 8-ball, and offered a mediocre 275HP V8 upgrade for a much steeper price.

In my opinion, had the Lucerne been introduced with the direct injection 306HP 3.6 liter DOHC V6 and six speed automatic only, the car would have been better received. Later on, a turbo option for the 3.6 motor (developed from the turbo 2.8 V6 from the same engine family) could revive the good ole Buick “Grand National”, “GNX” days. And it goes without saying that Buick would’ve been capitalizing on its V6 performance image in the process.

So I would argue that yes, things have improved. If you want to rent something exciting you will have to avoid the typical airport rental lot. Performance, try to rent a Vette or if available the new Camaro or Challenger. Sedan choices could include the CTS, STS, full size Chrysler products, G8. A Malibu, as respectable as it is, would fall into the blandmobile category. Perhaps a Saturn Sky or Pontiac Solstice? Of course, as previously mentioned, a Mustang. Try to get a Shelby GT-H. See, it is not all bad in Detroitland. Perhaps one vehicle could be an SUV, just to be different…Enjoy your trip. I wish I was doing the same…will we see a write-up here at TTAC?

Any Thoughts?????????

Perhaps the G8 will be available by then. Not 100% American but close, and it has the RWD/V8 combination. And if you decide to consider a Corvette, perhaps a Viper for a few dollars more?

You’re on track with the Charger/Mustang. Get the biggest V8 you can. What a big V8 lacks in sophistication it makes up for in brawn. We won’t have them much longer with gas going up, but for you our petrol prices will be a bargain. Experience them while they last. (Maybe you have already)

If you want to get the American perspective on motoring, try to rent a Crown Vic. Most of us learned to drive in cars this size, and it’s still what a lot of us (admittedly older) Yanks think of as full size.

I’ve never rented a car, so I don’t know if Corvettes are available. If so, get one. You have to bear in mind that it’s a working class Ferrari. Granted the interior is a bit chintzy, and it will have the American tendency to understeer, but don’t let it fool you – it’s cornering ability is right up there with some of Europe’s best, at a fraction of the cost. It’s not a cheap car, but it’s somethig a lot of very ordinary people could buy, once the mortgage is paid and the kids are grown.

It’s too bad you can’t get a full sized convertible. There is no more “American” way to experience route 66. A mid ’50s Caddy drop top would be your best bet, but any full sized (e.g. huge) rag top will do.

Beyond that, I don’t know. I think you’ll find most American cars are every bit as soulless as Toyotas (just not as reliable).

I’d go with Hertz and some of their Ford offerings. Stay away from the Chryslers, you’ll not only hate the car but won’t want to be seen in it. Maybe a few Mustang convertibles for good measure. And a Taurus or Fusion for comfort.

I think you mean Trailblazer, not Trailmaster? Consider the higher price in fuel when driving an SUV that averages, at most, 21 mpg, at cruising speeds.

Enjoy the drive, be sure to write up a story for TTAC.

My appologies.. The remark was a tad inflamatory.

As for the British car industry.. You are so right… Died a long time ago… And for the last few years it did produce real garbage products.

From my list, some cars where from a few years ago.. true. But have things improved?

A group of 10 of us will be driving Route 66 next year in 5 cars.. Hence me reading about all things US on the car front..

Other than the obvious Mustang and Charger we are struggling to find anything desireable and available from a rental company… Only rules are it has to be American.. Not driving it in a Very well engineered, hugely reliable, excellent re-saleability but souless Japanese car.

Looked at Lucerne, Impala, Sebring, Equinox, Trailmaster etc

Any Thoughts?????????

Fleet sales have been curbed substantially; removing them would not have as large an effect that you so hope to see.

As a Brit who has worked, lived and vacationed in the US since the mid 90’s i have driven a fair few GM and Ford vehicles…

Judging from the car names, sounds like much of your experience is ancient history in car-years. “Handle like a fridge” is a pretty inflammatory statement. It seems to me the British auto industry set the pattern that GM chose to follow, except they forgot the oil leaks, Prince of darkness electrical failures…I guess “British Industry Lite” might be more appropriate. If anybody is a poster child for “inferior engineering” it would be pretty much all of the British auto industry, which is why it is mostly non existent. Thanks for the canary in the coal mine warning for GM.

Honda and Toyota sell a very large number of vehicles to people who never actually shop around for cars-they just buy a new Accord or Camry every three to five years.

How true. Yes the product is excellent, but talk about boring. I can’t imagine buying the same car over and over again. I also have to add that if you aways dump your car in three to five years, you really have no ability to talk long term reliability.

The Toyota Corolla has existed since 1968.
The Honda Civic has existed since 1972.
The Honda Accord has existed since 1976.
The Toyota Camry has existed since 1980.
The Toyota Avalon has existed since 1995.

Compare that to the track records of the wide variety of cars sold by the Detroit 3 over the years. Heck, the only Detroit cars that have kept the same names for as long as the youngest car on my list above are the Ford Mustang, the Chevy Corvette, and the three Ford Panther platform cars, none of which are mainstream sedans like the Honda and Toyota models above.

Honda and Toyota sell a very large number of vehicles to people who never actually shop around for cars-they just buy a new Accord or Camry every three to five years. Buick used to have a similar number of repeat customers, until they changed all the names. That turned an automatic sale into a “maybe”. A repeat LeSabre customer, seeing that there was no such car by that name any more, would likely shop around a bit instead of just buying some other Buick, and quite likely end up in a Toyota Avalon.

As for the models that were discontinued by Toyota and Honda, they were all poor sellers, many without direct replacements.

Hmmm… if that’s the case then the Toyota Supra, Celica, MR2, Cressida, Paseo, Tercel and Previa were ’so bad Toyota was embarrassed of the name’.

Not to mention the Honda CRX, Del Sol, Insight and the Acura Legend and Integra.

That thread of logic simply doesn’t work.

Well, I don’t know about those Buicks being good buys – my grandmother drives by Braille. All four corners are marked with yellow caution paint and there is a scrape down the passenger side from a guard rail… VBG!

Seriously she has about a 2003 Buick Century and while it is boring as hell to look at and sleep-inducing to drive it has been a darn good car with low 30’s mileage on the highway. Aside from a weeping intake manifold gasket and a low coolant light that won’t go off it has been trouble free. My sister put 100K miles on her’s with no troubles. That isn’t saying much to my troublefree VWs and Hondas until you consider who drove it… VBG!

My VWs and Hondas would be perfect if they were as quiet as the Buick.

Might work.

Bunter

I agree with you 100% …!!!!!! Saab was a damn good car (still got a 1998 9-3 tid with 180k miles) until GM filled it full of rubbish standard bin parts.

As for “Car Shark” ’s comments

Your view is WHY your car industry is going down the pan. Are you a GM executive??? Looking at your top 10 selling cars for Jan 08.

1. Toyota Camry: 31,601
2. Honda Accord: 23,957
3. Nissan Altima: 21,635
4. Honda Civic: 20,993
5. Toyota Corolla: 20,736
6. Chevrolet Impala: 17,544
7. Chevrolet Cobalt: 17,310
8. Chevrolet Malibu: 14,105
9. Pontiac G6: 13,942
10. Ford Focus: 11,600

US produced/designed cars come in at no6.. but what if we took out the rental company fleets… ?? You produce cars no one wants to buy! The Japanese build clones of what GM and Ford should be building for your market..

So ” Car Shark” your comment “bold razor-edged American styling may be too much for the less adventurous Europeans” Not even your own countrymen are buying them!! And why is there no European cars in that list? Could be the import ttarifs? Most likely we don’t have an inane desire to only own something which has a V6 or V8 engine..!!! And its not only to do with fuel prices. Why would you want to drag all that weight around when a suitably designed 1.8 – 2 litre can produce all the HP you’ll ever need. You only drive in straight lines at 70mph for heavens sake.!!

As a Brit who has worked, lived and vacationed in the US since the mid 90’s i have driven a fair few GM and Ford vehicles.

Chevy Lumina – 2 weeks work driving in Arizona
Chevy Malibu – long weekend in Texas
Oldsmobile Intrigue – 4 weeks work driving Arizona
Oldsmobile Achieva – Long weekend drive Phoenix to Sante Fe.
Pontiac Grand-am Long weekend vacation
Ford Taurus- 2 weeks in Texas
Chevy Blazer – 2 weeks in Arizona
Dodge Caravan – 4 weeks vacation Florida
Jeep Cherokee – 2 years own car in Belize
Chrysler Grand Voyager – Currently 1 of 3 cars i own in UK

With exception of the Dodge/Chrysler Caravan the rest can only be described as hideous looking and having the driving dynamics of a Fridge…. The caravan does exactly “what it says on the tin”

Unfortunately here in Uk and Europe we have the need to drive on roads which have bends. That therefore requires something other than the good old American big V6 or V8 engine..

Embrace change.. Get rid of the Buick, Mercury, Caddilac and Pontiac…. Stop thinking all cars must have a big engine.. GM and Ford Europe produce some excellent cars and both the petrol and diesel engines are fantastic…

I’ll go back to my normal day car of and Audi A4 2.0 TDI safe in the knowledge that i am driving an inferior designed product and one day …if I’m really good…..just maybe… i can own a sort of aerodynamic trash skip with a big V8………Yeah Right!!!

You missed the point completely. I’m saying that by killing off the LeSabre name GM implicitly tells those who previously bought them that it was a car so bad GM was embarrassed of the name. What other reason could there be for killing the LeSabre name and cooking up the name Lucerne (also famous as Safeway’s house brand of dairy products!)? I agree that the LeSabre was actually a decent product. My point is that killing the name communicates otherwise. The Lucerne should have simply been the next generation LeSabre. The same is true of the Century to LaCrosse name change. Just stupid, and sales trends confirm my point.

As to resale values, the published data is clear that Avalon kicks Buick’s butt in retained values. Avalon is fact gets the highest rating for retained value of ANY full sized car on intellichoice.com. Published data trumps feelings gotten at the auction. Hence my point that once reason an Avalon buyer is there is because they expect much higher resale values than if the bought a Buick. Having had the pleasure of buying new and trading in three different GM products over the past 16 years I know firsthand what it is like to get kicked in the pants by rapid depreciation. I finally learned my lesson and I haven’t made that mistake again.

Retained values on Buicks are horrible, in part because of constant dumping in the fleets. A one or two year old Lucerne might in fact be a brilliant purchase, but buying new costs you dearly. If Buick is only averaging 3 cars per dealer, how many Lucernes per dealer are they selling, 1? That low number isn’t because the potential customers are all idiots.

You make a valid point, where would these people go?

Steven Lang,

They are good cars and exceptional value for the money. Its fascinating to watch people pay for imports even Hyundai these days, compared to domestic brands that have fallen off the radar screen like Buick or Mercury.

jthorner,

The individual that drives an Avalon conveys the same message as the individual that drives a Buick. With the exception that the Buick has more history than the Avalon.