So, why don’t we get our story straight here. There is huge criticism for massive discounting, red tag sales etc as destroying the value of a vehicle. Yet, you lament the absence of huge discounts on a G8?”

This is the fruit those tactics bear, now a GM car without a deep discount is an obvious scam.

mtypex,

Uhh, no. Strippers/Entertainers/Exotic Dancers come in many flavors. Some live up (down?) to whatever the worst stereotype you can imagine.

There are some others that are certified (and employed) EMTs or college students at highly-rated and high-priced 4 year private colleges. Really. It’s an outlet or an income.

Regardless, if they are any good at the job, and for the ones who are good, it is just a job, even in bad times, 3K for 3 or 4 days a week is not uncommon. In cash.

The ones who drove Grand Ams were not the “A” team.

A Ford dealer earlier this decade dissed the Honda, Nissan, Toyota competition while I was walking out with him to the lot to test drive the car. This is probably typical, I would think. Maybe he’s a stripper too – you never know.

1169HP,

Not all entertainers like spyders. My friends mostly dislike converts, but that’s just my friends. That, and some girls really do like turbos. But I’m glad you are an observant sociologist. Or at least, go to non-slummy clubs.

CamaroKid :

In Sept 1982 I went to the local Pontiac dealership … A salesman came over and actually asked me to get out of the car. He … asked me to leave the dealership…

Our failed education system was already at work back then, eh?

Pretty much across the street was the Chevy dealer… Salesman comes over and makes some joke about how much “tail” I could get with the car.

So you’ve had the car for almost three deades now, was it true?

We Factory ordered my Z28… It arrived 9 weeks later. The salesman had it in the middle of the showroom with a big blue bow on the hood… 25+ years later I still have both the car and the bow.

And the brocure! Nice story; and I get the part about the salesmen who do and don’t.

A question: Have you had body rust-through like I had with my 83 Trans Am? By 1992, it had bubbling paint and holes throughout.

How has your crossfire injection held up over the years?

I liked it while I had it, but I’m glad I got rid of my Trans Am when I did; by 1994, something new was going wrong on a nearly-weekly basis. Those rear disc brake calipers were problematic and expensive. Stock shocks were impossible to get in the towns I lived in during the 90’s, and the dual exhaust pipes cost an arm and a leg even at Tuffy or Midas.

The V8 had nice power, but all in all, my car was not even trustworthy as a backup car. In retrospect, I realized that one can’t have one of those old F-Bodies without having a daily driver first.

“the Grand Am was GM’s best-selling automobile and served as the exclusive transport option of every stripper, Wal-Mart cashier, and three-hundred-pound, trailer-park-bound, human hippopotamus in the Midwest”

While accurately reflecting the mode of transport chosen by the Wally World cashiers and Heffalumps, I take pause with reference to the ladies of interpretive dance. Everyone with a pocket full of ones’ know that the dancers choice lies in the 3 gen Eclipse Spyder…

The bottom line is, if you walk into a Pontiac dealer, whip out your check book and ask for a sales manager, you’re going to drive out in a G8 at invoice minus the $1k rebate. I mean really, how hard is it? The writer’s brother is obviously doing it wrong. Negotiating on the internet or phone only adds unnecessary time and frustration to the process. Go to a dealer, pick a car that you want to drive home that day, write a check for your down payment while submitting an offer for the car at invoice minus rebate or incentive. The sales manger will take a shot or two to bump you. Hold your ground, then tell them you are leaving and will stop payment on the check. Bingo, they agree to the price and you go home with your car.

The author is attempting to belittle the Pontiac salesmen for attempting to build value in their product and earn a profit. What’s wrong with trying to do that? Seeing as how every other Pontiac sold in the last 20 years has sold at invoice, you can’t blame them for trying to make a little money on a car that is getting rave reviews in the press. If you can’t get to a price you think is fair, then you don’t buy. It’s a simple as that.

Now, how do I turn this knowledge in to a money making business? Blogging? Consulting? I’m open to ideas…

gm

You should have done what I used to do at the Benz dealership when I was there on time and they made me wait an hour. I found a nice convertible in the showroom, perched in the driver’s seat and waited. They notice you when you do that!

Later on, I went with my dad while he was looking for a car, and he’d found a lightly-used Kia Optima that he really liked at a dealer that was pretty friendly, then went to a Chevy dealer to see what they had, and the salesman there was highly confrontational, did nothing but bash Kia and their cars, and didn’t ever provide any positive argument for one of the many Classics (previous-gen but “new” Malibu) littering the lot that he was trying to shove down my dad’s throat, other than to say Kia makes junk and to not-so-subtly insinuate that my dad was stupid for even considering one. His jabs cut to the point that I seriously thought at one point that my dad was going to take a swing at the guy. Excellent salesmanship indeed.

YOU NEED TO LOOK AT IT FROM THE CUSTOMERS VIEWPOINT not the other way around.

Right on.

I have had nothing but trouble from General Motors dealership service departments. Olds, Pontiac, three or four Chevvy dealerships, and more that I can’t remember.

The Toyota, Mazda, and BMW dealerships were better. The Bimmer service department had cookies in the waiting room, plus free carwashes on Saturdays. But the real deal was when they put a new convertible top on my Z3 a week after it was out of warranty!

I actually let Ford know the treatment I got at one dealer back in 2006 when I looked at a Mustang GT. They said I had to buy it first before I could drive it. He said if we gave test drives to everyone, we would have a line out to the street. I should have said to the guy, yeah and if you did maybe I wouldn’t be the only customer at this dealership. I emailed Ford customer service and they didn’t apologize, they just told me to go on the website and pick out a blue oval certified dealer and visit them. I told them I didn’t want to go through what I just went through and waste even more of my time. They just kept telling me to go on the web site and pick a dealer. I’m curious if the treatment from Ford direct would be better now. Probably not.

My last car buying experiences were with a Honda dealer and an Acura dealer, both of which were very professional to do business with. It helped that I started with the Internet/Fleet sales person. Normally these people are much more experience and much less BS prone than the average vulture circling the showroom. In some dealerships the fleet guy/gal even works out of a different building from the main sales floor. It also helped that I had done my research ahead of time, but of course I test drove every model I was considering before making a final choice. First I did my rounds of test drives, then I came back to the make-a-deal business once I knew what I wanted.

A salesman came over and actually asked me to get out of the car. I told him that I was interested in the car and I asked him for a card and a brochure. He refused asked me to leave the dealership…

Pretty much across the street was the Chevy dealer… I went there next… sat in a new Blue on Blue FULLY LOADED (A/C, power seats, T-Tops, crossfire) Z28. Salesman comes over and makes some joke about how much “tail” I could get with the car. He explains about the tires, the new suspension, the EFI system and he gives me a brochure without me asking (I still have it BTW)…

Then he blows me away… He says, “Can I see your license?”… I say why? He say “cause you gotta drive this baby to appreciate it!” I actually said “You are going to let me drive this?”
He laughs and says “Only if you want to”…

Well as you might have guessed, first stop was at the Pontiac dealer next door… The salesman was in the doorway waiting for the next customer… From the open T-Top, I smiled at the AH and said… “Thanks for helping me, but I think I like the Camaro better.”

The next day Grandpa and I sat down with the Chevy Saleman and we Factory ordered my Z28… It arrived 9 weeks later. The salesman had it in the middle of the showroom with a big blue bow on the hood… 25+ years later I still have both the car and the bow.

Some salesmen get it (and get the sale) and some don’t

I would think that these customers put up with this because they know they are buying a good car, and will not have to come back to the dealer any time soon, and most importantly not having to go through the horrors of trying to get warranty work done, that would happen in a domestic brand dealership.

Case in point. The Mazda dealer I bought my 3 from, despite being slagged in the Mazda forums, is miles ahead of what I experienced at the local GM dealerships in the north west part of the GTA.

Deal was done in an hour with no hassles. Can’t comment on warranty service, but regular service was fine. Dealership followed the Mazda menu to the letter without any bogus up sells.

Haven’t dealt with the local Honda or Toyota dealers, but they have been pleasant to talk to and even offered me a test drive on a quiet afternoon without me asking, or even indicating that I was car shopping. Just kicking tires on my daily walk.

A sharp contrast to the local domestic dealers that pounced on me and told me that there were all sorts of deals available and to come in and talk.

It might make me a bad person but it makes me smile to see the dealers suffer and go out of business. You can’t have a situation where you institutionalize mistreatment of customers and expect any sympathy.

I feel that every time a dealer goes out of business an angel gets its wings.

My dream is that, as a result of this financial crisis, negotiated prices for cars go the way of the Model T. Car dealerships hate the free market, and are unwilling to compete openly and fairly against other dealerships. With the industry in collapse, I feel for the people who build the cars, and work for the parts suppliers, but the dealerships deserve every bit of misery they are experiencing.

the main showroom had just three cars on display: a bright red 365 gtb ferrari ‘daytona’ on a riser to the left; a silver maserati ghibli spyder on a riser to the right; and an acid green lamborghini espada i would have sold my soul for, on a rotating riser in the center of the room.

all i wanted to do was look around and the salesguy couldn’t have been more accommodating. first we talked for about 10 minutes, then we went outside and perused vehicles in the lot and then, just as we were about to go back inside for a tour of more cars stored in back, a taxi pulled up and a rather messy-looking guy about my age got out and went inside, just ahead of us. i recall making some sort of snide remark to the salesman about a guy like him, dressed like that, coming to a dealership like this.

about a half an hour later, i emerged from the back room to be informed – much to my surprise – that that kid, who looked as though he didn’t have two nickels to his name but had actually recently inherited a significant estate, was in the process of purchasing ‘my’ green espada.

i learned a very valuable lesson that day – one that has stuck with me ever since.

In 1976, I walked into a Pontiac dealership in Tulsa, OK.I had the cash in my pocket for a new Trans-Am. I was, however, wearing ratty blue jeans and a tie-dyed T-shirt at the time, like many college kids of the day.

I walked up to the Trans-Am on the showroom floor. When the salesman approached, the first words out of his mouth were “Are you buying today,son, or just looking?”

I walked out, drove down the street and bought a gorgeous black Monte Carlo.

I was still incensed about the treatment I got at the Pontiac dealership, I went back and insited on a meeting with the owner of the franchise.

Unlike today, when I told him what happened,he called the sales manager in and instructed him to let the salesman go. I received a letter of apology from the dealer a little over a week later.

Boy, have times changed!

Honda and Toyota buyers seem to have no problems with being treated disrespectfully or with condescension from high-school educated sales staff with attitude. :)