We boring old farts look at people like you who only “want something that stands out and has some distinction and uniqueness as poseurs who just want to be seen driving an expensive status car.

Why don’t you just put some pink highlighting in your hair if you just want to “stand out and have some distinction and uniqueness” ?

I don’t particularly like having a car that looks like a circus act. I bought my most recent banglized 3 Series because it still drives like a BMW albeit in a zoot suit. The current 3-Series is overwrought.

It’s still about how the car performs, though, and so I bought one. However, I rejected the idea of a Z4 because it’s so god-awful that I just couldn’t do that. You’re certainly welcome to like it if you choose, and I’m sure it will get you a lot of attention….

Oh, and please don’t equate popularity with tasteful or well-done. Applying that logic gives us Madonna, Brittany Spears, and Paris Hilton as role models.

I nearly bought a 128i hatch just before I moved to the USA. I might do so eventually (we just bought a new car today as we’ve just returned to Australia – so it might be a while before the wife says yes to another car).

I think the folks who pined for the BMW’s of before are boring old farts who were dying anyway. BMW had to do something to make their cars exciting, and I for one really liked ‘em, including the first Bangled 7 series. I *hate* sedans with a passion, but if I was forced to own a sedan (before trading it in for something useful or fun, like a hatch or a convertible), I’d have any of his sedans.

The funny thing is that the most Bangled BMW’s were the biggest sales successes, and once they de-Bangled them, sales sagged. Folks with that much discretionary spending do not want Camries or Accords. They want something that stands out and has some distinction and uniqueness.

Life is too short to own a boring slab sided econobox. Bangle’s cars were never boring.

Andrew

- early 80s Audi 5000
- 1st and 2nd generation Ford Taurus
- Pontiac Aztec
- AMC Pacer

With each of the above, the design struck a nerve, good or bad, and sales followed, or didn’t. Simply put, ugly doesn’t sell. Unless it’s fleet sales.

Secondly, a new design language evolves over time. When you look at a modern Audi, you can point to that early 80s Audi 5000 as the first example of the language. Cadillac’s new edgy styling has evolved from the first awkward CTS to the newer models that use the language more fluently. Likewise Bangle’s BMWs. Just compare the maligned 2002 7 series and compare it to 2009’s. You may still hate it, but you’ve got to admit that the overall impression is much more fluid, much more cohesive.

Finally, one size does not fit all. Some designs work really well in one size and not so well in other sizes. Think Porsche and the Cayenne. Same with Bangle’s BMWs. His designs work best in the 5 series – small enough to carry flow and tension in the flamed surfaces but big enough that the stylistic flourishes in the headlights and taillights don’t overwhelm the total package.

Ultimately, every designer has his hits and misses. I’ll forgive Bangle his misses – his first 7, the noses on the 6 and 4 – because he’s developed a language that has matured and resulted in some very nice automobiles. He’s left BMW as a recognized design leader, something that they did not have before, and that’s no easy task.

From my perspective, he turned ruined the most elegant cars in history.

BMW knowingly took a risky move with Bangle and it was intentionally polarizing. Maybe it’s true the hot economy and BMW snobs expanded Bangle BMW sales, but I like to think that without Bangle, BMWs would resemble the coming generation of Mercedes: Sterile and vaguely derivative of Japanese designs.

Like cdotson, I also read somewhere that Adrian van Hooydonk did the actual penning of the designs, so I wouldn’t pull out the cigars or champagne yet.

I had also remembered reading somewhere that the “Bangle butt” was actually designed by Mr. A. van Hooydonk (albeit presumably under direction of his boss, Chris Bangle). van Hooydonk did design the concept vehicle upon which the 6 series was supposedly based according to the TopGear article about van Hooydonk. The TopGear article alludes to his hand in a 7 series design saying that he received “a mauling over his 7-Series” design.

A rear window of a 5-series station wagon gets covered in muck in no time, and I’ve seen dozens of other BMWs completely messed up, i.e. with illegible rear license plates. It looks like a case of sloppy design to me. Citroen for example consciously designs its cars so that the airstream keeps the rear window clean and dry, and the rear panal not too dirty.

As a designer, you need to keep your eye on the basics: make the car look clean, and create a shape that stays clean, even if not frequently washed.

Recently, I went and bought a 5 series. One of my neighbors has a previous generation and parked next to each other, the E60 is certainly fussier looking, but it also has more road presence. The stance made the car look more like a “driving machine” (whatever that means).

In the end, I feel there is a lot to criticize about Bangle’s designs but overall, BMWs have stood out and the cars are unmistakably BMW. In this sense, I feel Bangle has succeeded and wish him well in whatever he gets into designing in his future.

Not much at all. But we’re talking mainly about design here, and BMW has staked out a position whose origin was markedly different than other car companies. Ecce Bangle.

“Cars have been refined across the board. Even porsche. Compare a 997 to an 80’s 911.”

Sad for myself, I do this all the time!

“Even porsche, the purist brand, looks bloated by comparison.”

Indeed. And elsewhere, I have been unstinting in my criticism of Porsche for also having added too much fat, and proven too unwilling to strip it from all but its GT3s (and even with those, I bet you there are a couple hundred more pounds easily lost with enough will).

“Sure older cars have “soul” and “character”.

You said it, not me. I have always refused to let the word “soul” slip from between my lips in relation to cars, Porsche or otherwise.

I do however think many of the contemporary Porsches DO have much character. The Cayman, Boxster, and 997 are all, in my opinion, beautiful cars loaded with character. Even if they are still too heavy given their understood missions.

“Thats only because no two of them were alike due to vastly inferior manufacturing and quality control.”

And that explains how virtually any 911 rolled out of the factory could be driven to a race track and flogged, and not fall apart, as was fairly common then? I can’t speak to QC of other builders in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, but having owned and/or driven dozens of 911s from those decades on the road and track, I would argue that QC was one thing they were not lacking.

“I would love to own a 2002 to work on and look at on sunny days but for a car I actually have to use it’ll be an e92.”

This brings us to the core difference between owners: to some, 2002s, early 911s, Datsun 510s, etc., are to be admired, tinkered with, and driven on sunny days. To others–more like me–these cars are to be driven and used daily. That they offer up a mountain of fun at a moment’s notice is all that much nicer.

Yeah! Once. I was probably 22 – long, long time ago.

Clearly, to anyone who really cares, it went way off course. But ask around when you are in a car with common folks….point out beemers…or better still have people point them out for you. See how many of them can guess the vintage. They CAN point out BMWs…there are enough badges and visual clues (wheels, grille, etc) to make it obvious.

But really dig and see if anyone understands the evolution. The vast majority dont. Owning a beemer is owning the status to them. The newer the better, but NOT because of the design. The design never just improves or declines, but newer is always looked at as better buy this type of buyer. Just goes to show, most of them are fully clueless, and dont look at cars the way TTAC peeps do.

The fact that a design sells well does not mean that it is good, but simply that it does attract many customers. It’s not the same thing. Commercial success does not equate with beauty. Otherwise, more people would watch movies by, say, Clint Eastwood, and less Tom Cruise/Bruckheimer movies.

The idea the Farago pushes that the BMW sales success and its design direction in the last 10 years are probably unrelated is untenable in view history. The fact is that people don’t spend large amounts of money on high end cars if they are put off by the car’s design. I think that has been established over the 100 years of auto industry and it’s been proven daily on this blog.

It simply proves that a majority of people have bad taste. Is it arrogant of me to say this? Sure, but I hold by it, even when judging what is a very subjective element: car looks.

I’ve been to the Wisconsin State Fair. In the Badger State they know how to make big girls look good.

Also by August it’s often practically snowing in West Allis, so the GLHes remain safely hidden undern more subdued attire.

According to Wikipedia, born in Ravenna, OH and raised in Wausau.

The sad thing is, there is no brand of understated Teutonic excellence anymore, and as a 32-year-old who didn’t start paying attention until after college, I have no memory of there ever being one.

As McCartney sang, “Once there was a way to get back homeward,” but that time is over for BMW. They are what they are: a poseur brand. Once you sell out to up-market bling, you can’t move back down. Someone else will have to fill the niche that they left behind. Vee-dub is the only automaker in any kind of position to do so, but recent developments are not promising, to say the least.

What he said. Copied or not, Bangle’s “designs” are crap. Study a Z4 carefully and ask yourself why the bumper cutline needed to be integrated with the extraneous curve down the side of the car, or what the “Z” on the side of the car has to do with good design. Ask yourself why the ass-end of the 3-series coupe looks so much better than the sedan (de-Bangleization). The same horrid details were added to the 5′er. By comparison, the ‘02 7-series looks tame despite the godawful butt.

Fortunately for BMW they remain highly competent cars which “feel” like BMW’s. The engineers in Munich were smart enough not to let Mr. Bangle screw with the driving dynamics.

Nah!

Ravenna, Ohio

In any event, there’s no accounting for taste, and I’ve always liked (most of) his designs, especially the E90.

BMW is a bling brand, so bling designs are appropriate to me.