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	<title>Comments on: Bailout Watch 234: Obama Slides Back Towards &#8220;Aye&#8221;</title>
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		<title>By: reclusive_in_nature</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1006202</link>
		<dc:creator>reclusive_in_nature</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 08:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1006202</guid>
		<description>CarnotCycle your post on &quot;Nader-frenching Grape-nuts&quot; versus &quot;New Dealer-ish Socialism Now&quot; lefties was a breath of fresh air. I&#039;ve wanted to post the same thought, but didn&#039;t want to deal with the backlash/whining/lecturing. Kudos to you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->CarnotCycle your post on &#8220;Nader-frenching Grape-nuts&#8221; versus &#8220;New Dealer-ish Socialism Now&#8221; lefties was a breath of fresh air. I&#8217;ve wanted to post the same thought, but didn&#8217;t want to deal with the backlash/whining/lecturing. Kudos to you!<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: CarnotCycle</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1005331</link>
		<dc:creator>CarnotCycle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1005331</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I’ll throw out this opinion.
The Det 3 and the UAW did more economically for black people than any other private entity in the US. I believe Obama understands this.&lt;/i&gt;

I don&#039;t know if I would call Detroit an economic success story for anyone, black people included. I doubt black people in Detroit are doing better than black people in say, Seattle or the Bay Area - no matter the era. 

Plus, all the transplants are in the South and that means a significant plurality of the workers at those transplants are most definitely black folks and they are making a good, justifiable living. Those black folks in the transplants - like their white counterparts - are less worried about losing everything right about now, and aren&#039;t depending on their neighbor (whatever color that person may be) for a handout to keep the lights on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><i>I’ll throw out this opinion.<br />
The Det 3 and the UAW did more economically for black people than any other private entity in the US. I believe Obama understands this.</i></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if I would call Detroit an economic success story for anyone, black people included. I doubt black people in Detroit are doing better than black people in say, Seattle or the Bay Area &#8211; no matter the era. </p>
<p>Plus, all the transplants are in the South and that means a significant plurality of the workers at those transplants are most definitely black folks and they are making a good, justifiable living. Those black folks in the transplants &#8211; like their white counterparts &#8211; are less worried about losing everything right about now, and aren&#8217;t depending on their neighbor (whatever color that person may be) for a handout to keep the lights on.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: indi500fan</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1005142</link>
		<dc:creator>indi500fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:02:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1005142</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll throw out this opinion.
The Det 3 and the UAW did more economically for black people than any other private entity in the US.  I believe Obama understands this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I&#8217;ll throw out this opinion.<br />
The Det 3 and the UAW did more economically for black people than any other private entity in the US.  I believe Obama understands this.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Adub</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1004972</link>
		<dc:creator>Adub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 00:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1004972</guid>
		<description>&quot;That decision is above my pay grade.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->&#8220;That decision is above my pay grade.&#8221;<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: dougjp</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1004881</link>
		<dc:creator>dougjp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:42:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1004881</guid>
		<description>He&#039;s proving his brilliance. Well OK, not that, call it lawyer skills. Even the professional bloggers don&#039;t know where he&#039;s heading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->He&#8217;s proving his brilliance. Well OK, not that, call it lawyer skills. Even the professional bloggers don&#8217;t know where he&#8217;s heading.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: jimmy2x</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1004411</link>
		<dc:creator>jimmy2x</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:17:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1004411</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;It has been a foregone conclusion since the beginning that Detroit is getting the bailout. Never in question. All this is show business for the peons. Anybody fooled?&lt;/em&gt;

Not particularly directed at the author, but sometimes I think that some of the &quot;best and brightest&quot; should just stick to cars.  

Just exactly what would YOU have Congress do about the auto bail out that they are not doing?  Of course it is true that some sort of bailout is coming.  If the doomsayers are right about the huge job loss that would result of the Big 3 shutting down, the loss to our economy and industrial base would be inestimable - 50B or even 10B might look like peanuts in comparison.  

Many of us bitch and complain about the bailout of the auto industry because we at least have SOME knowledge about it.  Most of us understand the enormous bailout of the financial sector in only the vaguest terms and just hope to hell that those dumping off those billions know what they are doing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><em>It has been a foregone conclusion since the beginning that Detroit is getting the bailout. Never in question. All this is show business for the peons. Anybody fooled?</em></p>
<p>Not particularly directed at the author, but sometimes I think that some of the &#8220;best and brightest&#8221; should just stick to cars.  </p>
<p>Just exactly what would YOU have Congress do about the auto bail out that they are not doing?  Of course it is true that some sort of bailout is coming.  If the doomsayers are right about the huge job loss that would result of the Big 3 shutting down, the loss to our economy and industrial base would be inestimable &#8211; 50B or even 10B might look like peanuts in comparison.  </p>
<p>Many of us bitch and complain about the bailout of the auto industry because we at least have SOME knowledge about it.  Most of us understand the enormous bailout of the financial sector in only the vaguest terms and just hope to hell that those dumping off those billions know what they are doing.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Lokki</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1004282</link>
		<dc:creator>Lokki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:01:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1004282</guid>
		<description>1. It has been a foregone conclusion since the beginning that Detroit is getting the bailout. Never in question. All this is show business for the peons.  Anybody fooled?

2. As stated above, Obama will continue his practice of voting present in this matter, like he does with everything. Congress will come to him with a bailout bill and &quot;make&quot; him sign it, happy to do so in one press conference and reluctant to do so in another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->1. It has been a foregone conclusion since the beginning that Detroit is getting the bailout. Never in question. All this is show business for the peons.  Anybody fooled?</p>
<p>2. As stated above, Obama will continue his practice of voting present in this matter, like he does with everything. Congress will come to him with a bailout bill and &#8220;make&#8221; him sign it, happy to do so in one press conference and reluctant to do so in another.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: CarnotCycle</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1004141</link>
		<dc:creator>CarnotCycle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:37:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1004141</guid>
		<description>I can only imagine that the internal pressure on Obama from his own party on these issues is pretty tremendous. The domestic auto business is an especially acute contradiction for far-lefties.

On one side you&#039;ve got the Nader-frenching Grape-nuts who the Democrats worry every election will bolt for the Green Party. They&#039;ve hated GM ever since &quot;Unsafe at any Speed&quot; or were raised on tomes like it. Seeing GM slip beneath the oncoming waves of green-ish Prii and Civics is right up their alley, a complete moral and rhetorical victory for them. I am sure this crew would love to take any dime pondered for the Shrinking 3 and invest it in rainbow-powered cars or what-not. Plus, it moves us one step closer to their dream of all Americans driving biofuel powered metaphorical condoms-on-wheels.

But on the other side you&#039;ve got the New Dealer-ish Socialism Now crowd who love union jobs in rusty run-down cities. This is the paleozoic Machine Politics Democratic party that ol&#039; Joe P. Kennedy essentially owned and managed to get his kids in power. They are a shrinking bunch with the old labor unions as the dimming core to the dying star this social segment is. They are increasingly desperate (see Card Check) to survive. They know what we at TTAC know, if these outfits go into bankruptcy, the old order they represent will no longer have a legal shield and they will be eliminated from the American zeitgeist.

The Democrats have always played identity politics, and it all works so long as you have a common enemy (evil white WASP males). But you see that when the discreet identities themselves collide (see Democratic Primary) it gets ugly for them. I imagine behind closed doors, these kinds of identities are expressing themselves to Mr. Obama and his interlocutors, and the pressure on him must be intense indeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->I can only imagine that the internal pressure on Obama from his own party on these issues is pretty tremendous. The domestic auto business is an especially acute contradiction for far-lefties.</p>
<p>On one side you&#8217;ve got the Nader-frenching Grape-nuts who the Democrats worry every election will bolt for the Green Party. They&#8217;ve hated GM ever since &#8220;Unsafe at any Speed&#8221; or were raised on tomes like it. Seeing GM slip beneath the oncoming waves of green-ish Prii and Civics is right up their alley, a complete moral and rhetorical victory for them. I am sure this crew would love to take any dime pondered for the Shrinking 3 and invest it in rainbow-powered cars or what-not. Plus, it moves us one step closer to their dream of all Americans driving biofuel powered metaphorical condoms-on-wheels.</p>
<p>But on the other side you&#8217;ve got the New Dealer-ish Socialism Now crowd who love union jobs in rusty run-down cities. This is the paleozoic Machine Politics Democratic party that ol&#8217; Joe P. Kennedy essentially owned and managed to get his kids in power. They are a shrinking bunch with the old labor unions as the dimming core to the dying star this social segment is. They are increasingly desperate (see Card Check) to survive. They know what we at TTAC know, if these outfits go into bankruptcy, the old order they represent will no longer have a legal shield and they will be eliminated from the American zeitgeist.</p>
<p>The Democrats have always played identity politics, and it all works so long as you have a common enemy (evil white WASP males). But you see that when the discreet identities themselves collide (see Democratic Primary) it gets ugly for them. I imagine behind closed doors, these kinds of identities are expressing themselves to Mr. Obama and his interlocutors, and the pressure on him must be intense indeed.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: 50merc</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1004131</link>
		<dc:creator>50merc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1004131</guid>
		<description>Another &quot;present&quot; vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Another &#8220;present&#8221; vote.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Geotpf</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1004102</link>
		<dc:creator>Geotpf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:33:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1004102</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not really his call.  He&#039;s no longer in Congress (he resigned his Senate seat), and he isn&#039;t president for another month and a half.  He has significant influence, of course, but I think this is one issue where he&#039;s probably willing to sit back and let the chips fall where they may.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->It&#8217;s not really his call.  He&#8217;s no longer in Congress (he resigned his Senate seat), and he isn&#8217;t president for another month and a half.  He has significant influence, of course, but I think this is one issue where he&#8217;s probably willing to sit back and let the chips fall where they may.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: jet_silver</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1003752</link>
		<dc:creator>jet_silver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1003752</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Obama stays &lt;b&gt;resolutely&lt;/b&gt; nonspecific.

Resolutely is a good word, but I would probably have applied it to the UAW.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start --><i>Obama stays <b>resolutely</b> nonspecific.</p>
<p>Resolutely is a good word, but I would probably have applied it to the UAW.</i><!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: Robstar</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1003721</link>
		<dc:creator>Robstar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:56:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1003721</guid>
		<description>Bigger government is the reason I didn&#039;t vote for either of the 2 &quot;major&quot; parties.  

I would cheer Obama if he said no to a bailout, however if he does, it wouldn&#039;t surprise me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->Bigger government is the reason I didn&#8217;t vote for either of the 2 &#8220;major&#8221; parties.  </p>
<p>I would cheer Obama if he said no to a bailout, however if he does, it wouldn&#8217;t surprise me.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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		<title>By: autonut</title>
		<link>http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-obama-slides-back-towards-aye/comment-page-1/#comment-1003711</link>
		<dc:creator>autonut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:49:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174451#comment-1003711</guid>
		<description>And that&#039;s the news? He is democratic president looking for &quot;not bigger vs. smaller, but smarter government&quot;. Since in 2 years in Senate he had plenty of opportunity to actually develop &quot;smart&quot; government, we will end-up with bigger government for starters. This risky loan business is a perfect vehicle to create one. Loans are risky and require tremendous oversight above and beyond what we already have. The only addition to those plans will be not becoming profitable in 2011 (re-election is in 2012) but push forward &quot;independence&quot; date to 2013-2014,  and we all in tax spending business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!-- google_ad_section_start -->And that&#8217;s the news? He is democratic president looking for &#8220;not bigger vs. smaller, but smarter government&#8221;. Since in 2 years in Senate he had plenty of opportunity to actually develop &#8220;smart&#8221; government, we will end-up with bigger government for starters. This risky loan business is a perfect vehicle to create one. Loans are risky and require tremendous oversight above and beyond what we already have. The only addition to those plans will be not becoming profitable in 2011 (re-election is in 2012) but push forward &#8220;independence&#8221; date to 2013-2014,  and we all in tax spending business.<!-- google_ad_section_end --></p>
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