Comments on: Bailout Watch 233: CS First Boston on GM Plan: “another check before the end of 2Q09″ http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/ The Truth About Cars is dedicated to providing candid, unbiased automobile reviews and the latest in auto industry news. Mon, 23 Nov 2009 01:10:18 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Adub http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1004941 Adub Wed, 03 Dec 2008 23:55:27 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1004941 It's almost too bad that dealers are independent operators- GM should hire Buickman to train their sales staff. Really, I leave whenever I encounter a sleazy salesman, nice car or not. It’s almost too bad that dealers are independent operators- GM should hire Buickman to train their sales staff.

Really, I leave whenever I encounter a sleazy salesman, nice car or not.

]]> By: bumpy http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1004612 bumpy Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:59:05 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1004612 How GM Makes Money Vanish* *- numbers are for illustrative purposes only. The reality is likely far worse. GM sat down at the end of the month to tally up its bills. It had 15 billion at the beginning of the month, paid 5 billion in loan-shark payments, 4 billion to make some cars and trucks, 7 billion for retired UAW Viagra, and another 3 billion for that Delphi ickyness. The yessirhowhighsir market forecasters said they'd bring in 16 billion in product sales for that month since the car business was in a rough patch, but the dealers only took 12 billion of stuff. Oops, bye bye 7 billion. One more month of that and *clang*. For the record, 1958 ushered in an era of astonishingly hideous vehicles from all of Detroit which wouldn't lift until 1963 or so. How GM Makes Money Vanish*

*- numbers are for illustrative purposes only. The reality is likely far worse.

GM sat down at the end of the month to tally up its bills. It had 15 billion at the beginning of the month, paid 5 billion in loan-shark payments, 4 billion to make some cars and trucks, 7 billion for retired UAW Viagra, and another 3 billion for that Delphi ickyness. The yessirhowhighsir market forecasters said they’d bring in 16 billion in product sales for that month since the car business was in a rough patch, but the dealers only took 12 billion of stuff. Oops, bye bye 7 billion. One more month of that and *clang*.

For the record, 1958 ushered in an era of astonishingly hideous vehicles from all of Detroit which wouldn’t lift until 1963 or so.

]]> By: jpcavanaugh http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1004421 jpcavanaugh Wed, 03 Dec 2008 22:23:00 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1004421 Robert & Lumbergh21: I have to be the contrarian. I've always felt that although the 58 GM line had a certain attractiveness, it did not hold a candle to the 58 MoPars (which were year-old designs in 58). Both in looks and in performance. The DeSoto is my personal favorite. Long, low, clean. Recall that GM panicked and pulled the plug on the 58s before they even went on sale. The 59s were a crash program started in late 56 when the new MoPar Forward Look hit the streets. I'm forming this thesis in my head as I type, so I am open to other ideas, but is the axing of the 1958 GM line after a single year the last example of GM reacting visibly and decisively in response to a plan gone wrong? I think that GM was at the top of its game in 1958. A company that is a genuine leader will recognize when it has been leapfrogged. GM recognized it in 1956-58, but seems to have lost that ability later, certainly by the end of the 60s, in my view. Robert & Lumbergh21: I have to be the contrarian. I’ve always felt that although the 58 GM line had a certain attractiveness, it did not hold a candle to the 58 MoPars (which were year-old designs in 58). Both in looks and in performance. The DeSoto is my personal favorite. Long, low, clean. Recall that GM panicked and pulled the plug on the 58s before they even went on sale. The 59s were a crash program started in late 56 when the new MoPar Forward Look hit the streets.
I’m forming this thesis in my head as I type, so I am open to other ideas, but is the axing of the 1958 GM line after a single year the last example of GM reacting visibly and decisively in response to a plan gone wrong? I think that GM was at the top of its game in 1958. A company that is a genuine leader will recognize when it has been leapfrogged. GM recognized it in 1956-58, but seems to have lost that ability later, certainly by the end of the 60s, in my view.

]]> By: Facebook User http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003901 Facebook User Wed, 03 Dec 2008 21:14:43 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003901 Oh yeah, money given to GM is certainly well spent. P.S. I relly like the 58 Chevys too. I've got a 58 Chevy truck that I think is fabulous. Oh yeah, money given to GM is certainly well spent.

P.S. I relly like the 58 Chevys too. I’ve got a 58 Chevy truck that I think is fabulous.

]]> By: dean http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003571 dean Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:40:01 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003571 Buickman: why don't you post your manifesto for Return to Greatness here on TTAC. No offense, but your prescription for what ails Detroit seems remarkably simplistic. Buickman: why don’t you post your manifesto for Return to Greatness here on TTAC. No offense, but your prescription for what ails Detroit seems remarkably simplistic.

]]> By: DR. XO http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003482 DR. XO Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:29:16 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003482 Buickman, That would be an understatement.!! Trying to educate the sheople is a waste of energy! I must admit, I too am very stupid!! For wasting the best years of my life in this GM dealership, instead of learning to speak Chinese!! Buickman,

That would be an understatement.!!

Trying to educate the sheople is a waste of energy!

I must admit, I too am very stupid!! For wasting the best years of my life in this GM dealership, instead of learning to speak Chinese!!

]]> By: Ingvar http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003481 Ingvar Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:23:50 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003481 I can't for my life understand what's eating through that pile of cash. Burning 7 billion dollars every quarter is such a staggering amount of loss, it's almost incomprehensible. I mean, how do they do it? Even setting fire on that money quite litterary, in a bonfire, would take more time than it takes for GM. They are not insolvent, they are experiencing a mid air break up of the fuselage, crashing sometimes next year, bail out or no bail out... I can’t for my life understand what’s eating through that pile of cash. Burning 7 billion dollars every quarter is such a staggering amount of loss, it’s almost incomprehensible. I mean, how do they do it? Even setting fire on that money quite litterary, in a bonfire, would take more time than it takes for GM. They are not insolvent, they are experiencing a mid air break up of the fuselage, crashing sometimes next year, bail out or no bail out…

]]> By: Lichtronamo http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003462 Lichtronamo Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:21:06 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003462 So the pro finance people understand that The Plan is smoke and mirrors, will Congress? So the pro finance people understand that The Plan is smoke and mirrors, will Congress?

]]> By: Robert Schwartz http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003382 Robert Schwartz Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:09:17 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003382 Ah 1958. I think the Chevy and the Cadillac for that year still look nice. The Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile were ehhh. Ah 1958. I think the Chevy and the Cadillac for that year still look nice. The Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile were ehhh.

]]> By: Buickman http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003321 Buickman Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:02:51 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003321 there is one who can save the day but for lack of understanding it all sits on the sidelene. shame when so many have been informed yet pay no attention. oh well, maybe it's time to go another direction for those in this business are too stupid to know the difference. there is one who can save the day but for lack of understanding it all sits on the sidelene. shame when so many have been informed yet pay no attention. oh well, maybe it’s time to go another direction for those in this business are too stupid to know the difference.

]]> By: dushenski http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003311 dushenski Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:01:04 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003311 Those are staggering sums of money. And the picture still looks grim. Maybe GM will be able to sell Hummer, Saab and Saturn for $100 billion. Then they'll be able to leave the American and Canadian taxpayers alone. At least until 2010 when they burn through that too. I hate always sounding like a pessimist. Those are staggering sums of money. And the picture still looks grim. Maybe GM will be able to sell Hummer, Saab and Saturn for $100 billion. Then they’ll be able to leave the American and Canadian taxpayers alone. At least until 2010 when they burn through that too. I hate always sounding like a pessimist.

]]> By: John R http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003292 John R Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:00:32 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003292 shouldn't this be bailout watch <strong>233</strong>? the preceding one was numbered 232. shouldn’t this be bailout watch 233? the preceding one was numbered 232.

]]> By: gerber http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003212 gerber Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:44:14 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003212 GM liquidity explained. Thanks Robert. Silly me and I thought they had B10 left As of Dec 01. As always: reality makes you cry more than the GM-Fiction Hopefully people will recall the moment a couple of weeks ago when the head of the 3 were asked if they would promise not to come back for more if they were given the 25B, and no one replied. GM liquidity explained.
Thanks Robert.

Silly me and I thought they had B10 left As of Dec 01. As always: reality makes you cry more than the GM-Fiction

Hopefully people will recall the moment a couple of weeks ago when the head of the 3 were asked if they would promise not to come back for more if they were given the 25B, and no one replied.

]]> By: autonut http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003201 autonut Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:40:02 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003201 If those stiff Swiss watched SNL carefully, they would understand that extended hand shall not go away. If those stiff Swiss watched SNL carefully, they would understand that extended hand shall not go away.

]]> By: BlueBrat http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/bailout-watch-234-credit-suisse-first-boston-on-gm-plan-the-government-may-have-to-write-another-check-before-the-end-of-2q09/comment-page-1/#comment-1003171 BlueBrat Wed, 03 Dec 2008 19:35:49 +0000 http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=174382#comment-1003171 Oh, I <a href="http://seanklassen.com/images/bestimageever.gif" rel="lightbox[174382]" rel="nofollow">found some footage</a> of Wagoner's drive out to DC. Oh, I found some footage of Wagoner’s drive out to DC.

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