Comments on: At Least the Luggage Is OK

By: Wolven

Wolven — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 05:16:56 +0000

Hmmm… I just watched a bunch of cars hitting concrete walls and each other at 290 Kilometers per hour (180 mph)… and the drivers all got out and walked away…

It’s too bad nobody cares enough to actually spend the extra $200 per car to build a safe one.

By: Kevin Kluttz

Kevin Kluttz — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 22:49:04 +0000

don1967 made me spit my m&m’s!!!

By: kaleun

kaleun — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 20:26:15 +0000

wsn: that brings the question what defines a good car. is the Aveo better than an Audi A8 because I’m less likely to go bankrupt and kill myself for being bankrupt? (on the other hand I don’t have to kill myself because I can’t stand the Aveo anymore)
While I agree that a good car definition also includes some life-cycle cost and price, producability, I think most people would agree that Audi is better than the Hyundai (no pun, it is just a different market). More expensive, sure.
the Hyundai also might be more expensive than the more expensive competitor due to depreciation. For example, My Mazda 3 5-door costs $ 2,000 more than a comparable Lantra. After 5 years, I’m sure I have an easier time selling the Mazda than the Hyundai. and as a former Hyundai owner I know hat their warranty doesn’t apply when “all of them have the same problem” or if it is “working with a workaround. It doesn’t work as expected, but that doesn’t mean it is broken”

By: commando1

commando1 — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:38:04 +0000

@ Nicodemus:

Aweee. You took all the fun out of that video. LMAO.

By: Nicodemus

Nicodemus — Sat, 04 Jul 2009 09:05:56 +0000

“The test was conducted in 1992 and was part of a series of tests to commission our crash test facility. The test was of the drive system, not the car.

The car was a standard ’second hand’ car except that the tail shaft was removed. 300kg of sand ballast was placed in the footwells and boot and a ballast dummy (75kg) was placed on the rear seat.

The test speed was 100km/h into a solid concrete reaction block.

Colin Jackson
Crash Barrier Manager
RTA Crashlab
(02) 9830 1721 “

By: 50merc

50merc — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:31:52 +0000

You guys are too critical of that car in the crash test.

Didn’t you notice the right rear door was hardly damaged?

By: A is A

A is A — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 20:10:03 +0000

A couple of years ago, Fifth Gear did a crash comparo of an older Volvo wagon and a new compact Euro-something. The sturdy steel Volvo wagon fared very poorly against the smaller newer car.

This surprised the hell out of me, since a Volvo probably saved my mom’s life in 1978 when she got broadsided by a drunk in a contemporary Cadillac.

The video you mentioned.

There´s evidence for the assertion that the Volvo 700 (the Volvo 900 tested in the video is a reskinned 700) was the safest car in the world in the 1980s.

In the 21st century, a small Renault is safer.

By: wsn

wsn — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 17:15:08 +0000

kaleun :
July 2nd, 2009 at 11:31 pm

Just because I point out the good design of an Audi and the worse design of an older Hyundai

————————————————

No, the design of the Audi isn’t better than that of the Hyundai. It’s more expensive.

It’s only better if it’s safer at the same price, or cheaper at the same safty. For the same reason, we wouldn’t say an M1A2 is a better transportation than that Audi.

For a person of a certain income, that Hyundai may actually be a safer choice. Yeah, during the Hyundai’s service life, the owner faces 0.01% more chance of dying in a collision than the Audi owner.

But that same owner, having saved $30k by choosing the Hyundai, has 20% less chance of going bankrupt in the sub-prime crisis and decreases his chance of dying due to unable to pay his medical bills by 0.1%.

The numbers are, of course, all made up by me. But the point is clear, money = safety and that money may be better allocated somewhere else. So, if we have to judge the overall safety of a car, we must consider the extra cost that will have to be drawn from elsewhere.

By: mach1

mach1 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:35:21 +0000

Ford produces some exceptionally safe vehicles.
See: http://www.automotive.com/new-cars/safety/01/ford/index.html

Among the best are these 5 star / 5 star rated vehicles from 2009:
- Taurus
- Mustang
- Explorer Sport Trac
- Taurus X
- Escape
- Explorer

By: shaker

shaker — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 13:35:08 +0000

This thread makes me want a Phaeton.
bootracks:
“that bodyworks going to need a fair amount of tapping out”

heh heh… :-)

By: commando1

commando1 — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:38:16 +0000

The video just reminded me once again why I keep my ‘76 Chrysler New Yorker…

By: bootracks

bootracks — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 09:13:55 +0000

that bodyworks going to need a fair amount of tapping out

By: miso_hot

miso_hot — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:29:10 +0000

umm, watching this made me think.. what was the point in making a car again? if my chances are the same as a bicycle, motorcycle, or a pedestrian? hahah.

By: B.C.

B.C. — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:22:41 +0000

Maybe I’m just in too serious a mood after viewing that, but I’m a bit dismayed at the mothers-in-law comments.

You obviously don’t have a mother-in-law …

By: Joel

Joel — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:18:10 +0000

@ cjdumm: The point of the 5th gear test was to test an older car with a good safety history ( the Volvo) against the newer style of safety: a stiff chassis (the Renault minivan).

By: dagmeister

dagmeister — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 08:03:46 +0000

I know that crash, was done at 100kph (62mph).
It was done here in Australia at ‘Crashlabs’ which is in New South Wales owned by the RTA.

As others have said it a Holden Commodore from the early 1980’s. There is also a VW Van that gets demolished I’m told that was done to test the facilities (mainly the puller motor and concrete slab.So big cargo and high speed.

By: Joel

Joel — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 07:40:29 +0000

While that one’s pretty bad, ok really bad. But, here’s one you’ll see around town, even now: a Volkswagen van, crew cab pickup style. Now, I know I’m picking on low hanging fruit here but this one’s extra bad: the bumper is your knees and the back is reinforced a la pickup bed. Take a look-see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ukq-UUQAcZs

edit: I have no idea how fast it’s going in the clip, but I would hazard a guess in the 35-ish mph range.

By: TonyJZX

TonyJZX — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:59:55 +0000

the Commodore VB is a piece of crap

accepted for a 1978 design… quite revolutionary for its time

and the spiritual ancestor to the current G8/VE

By: pista

pista — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:19:14 +0000

Light and tossable, my date! I owned the model Commodore after that and it was a horrible ride. Vague steering, leaned like a 2CV in corners though 500kg lighter than a G8 Commodore and it, too, met a similar end to our star above but in a low speed rear ender.

By: Martin Schwoerer

Martin Schwoerer — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 06:12:20 +0000

In the end, any car is like that one if you just drive fast enough. Just ask Diana. You might not get creamed, so the mortician’s job will be easier. But you will be dead.

By: jmo

jmo — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:45:36 +0000

Reminds me of all the ignorant TTAC comments who complain about how heavy cars are these days.

Do you really want the car in the clip? I mean I’m sure it’s all light and toss-able in the corners….

By: TonyJZX

TonyJZX — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:29:19 +0000

there’s no indication how fast the crash is

i heard it was over 60 mph which is over what is expected

By: yankinwaoz

yankinwaoz — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:18:32 +0000

Funny… my senior citizen mom was complaining to me last week how her car “completely collapsed” when she was rear ended. She was shocked at the extent of the damage for such a low speed collision. She blamed it on poorly built cars and told me that in her day cars didn’t fall apart like that in fender benders.

I pointed out to her that her day, the car held up at the expense of the passenger. I explained to her how the car is now designed to collapse and absorb the energy of the impact around the passengers. I also explained to her how the monocoque construction of modern car bodies means that they can’t really be pounded out and reused like in the old days.

Now that she understands why the extensive damage for low-speed accidents, she appreciates it. But it does piss her off that fender benders now cost a lot of money.

By: cjdumm

cjdumm — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 05:02:17 +0000

A couple of years ago, Fifth Gear did a crash comparo of an older Volvo wagon and a new compact Euro-something. The sturdy steel Volvo wagon fared very poorly against the smaller newer car.

This surprised the hell out of me, since a Volvo probably saved my mom’s life in 1978 when she got broadsided by a drunk in a contemporary Cadillac.

By: 357Sig

357Sig — Fri, 03 Jul 2009 04:52:16 +0000

One of the safest cars ever built: The Volkswagen Phaeton. Phaetons (and the Bentley Continental that shares the same platform) have an entire layer of superstructure that is unique to this platform. The purpose of this superstructure is to achieve a torsional rigidity of 37,000 Nm/degree. This also adds substantially to the car’s weight. The V8 Phaeton weighs in at 5200 lbs and the W12 weights in at 5400 lbs. That makes the Phaetons within a few hundred pounds of a Chevrolet Suburban.

So, to recap: The Phaeton has one of, if not the stiffest, structures of any vehicle ever produced. It has 8 airbags, state of the art safety and stability equipment and weighs about the same as a full sized SUV.

Besides the obvious crashworthiness that is a natural byproduct of such extreme over-engineering, the rigidity pays off in different ways as well. Because in the USA the both the Phaetons and Bentleys are supplied with high-horsepower engines and all wheel drive, the chassis must be very stiff. If it wasn’t the cars could twist themselves to the point that the little wooden doors that silently come down over the air vents might bind. The stiffness also is very beneficial at the very high speeds that the cars can reach.

The Phaetons are governed at 130 MPH in USA, and 155 in Europe. Ungoverned, the V8 model has a top speed of 167 and the W12 model has a top speed of 200. The Bentleys do not employ a governor and thus also have a top speed of at least 200 depending on the model.

The benefits of the Phaeton’s stiffness and heft are immediately apparent in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFMrx3BGXpQ