There have been many opinions offered on this thread and information provided to me that I had not considered previously. Options presented that hadn’t crossed my mind. I do feel better informed by “the best and brightest” — still undecided, but certainly better informed!

pariah, that article about a Hummer being more environmentally sound than a Prius has been debunked in so many ways and in so many places, that it boggles the mind that it keeps appearing when people discuss the Prius online.

That “study” is one of the most ridiculous things I’ve ever seen in my life. I’ve already been involved in one bash-fest of that study, so I won’t go any further with it except to say that anyone who believes that study would be best to keep quiet about it if they’re ever surrounded by engineers. You might as well be arguing against the law of conservation of energy at that point!

2005 Subaru Outback 92.0

2008 Toyota Prius 79.1
2008 Toyota Corolla 99.3
2008 Toyota Yaris 117.7

2008 Honda Civic 90.1
2008 Honda Civic Hybrid 91.6
2008 Honda Fit 107.7

Safest car out of those choices the Toyota Prius. Next safest is the Honda Civic.

The Corolla, Yaris, and Fit are all less safe than a Prius by a noticeable margin.

Going outside the obvious choices in this thread the safest car is

2008 Acura RL 4-DR. 46

But given it’s horrible gas mileage it sure isn’t an option in this discussion.

No Prius has ever been built prior to 1997. To link the Prius to the nickel mine wastelands near Sarnia is utterly disingenious, and worse, it is totally misleading, false and hyperbole of the worst kind.

Unbelievable nonsense, and it’s even coming out of a university web site. They should be ashamed of themselves for writing and publishing such stuff.

Don’t be gullible, folks.

Plus, it just simply does not make anything like common sense to even consider that it could be so. But then, sense appears to be rather uncommon of late in the world we all share.

I’ll let you all know how my 2008 Prius works out after it reaches 260,000 miles at my retirement in 16 years 2 months. At that time, I plan to retire it and buy a retirement car to last me the duration. I’m already saving up a little at a time.

I have every confidence that it’ll reach the goal (unless some knuckle dragging imbecile drives into it and totals it out, or a tree falls on it in a storm, or something).

Why can I say that? Because Prius’s are now running 400,000 km (about 250,000 miles) in two years, in taxicab duty up in Canada and they are so successful, that the cab drivers simply go out and buy another.

How many gallons of fuel will a 2008 Prius save vs. a 2008 Hummer over 260,000 miles?

Of course, it’s a bit of an unfair comparison, because at the rate things are going, nobody will be able to drive a Hummer that many miles to find out!

kawaii, check out these links to dispell those myths you have just read.

http://stopurban4×4s.blogspot.com/2007/02/why-dust-to-dust-report-belongs-in.html

http://www.betterworldclub.com/articles/hummer-not-more-efficient.htm

http://rmi.org/images/PDFs/Transportation/T07-01_DustToDust.pdf

That being said, (speaking as someone who drives the San Francisco hills daily) a Prius will be a tough ride as you climb and climb the hills. Any car will hate the climb, it just feels worse in a Prius because you can see and feel the mpg loss. It feels great going down the hill though!!!

I’d still say go with the Prius, it is just way more livable a vehicle, especially if you intend to keep it for the life of the vehicle.

Twisting mountain road?

Neither. Yaris or Prius.

Boxster.

So you use 20-30 percent more fuel. You can still easily eke 25 mpg hwy out of the little Porsche. It’s not like it’s a planet killer. Just sayin.

Mountain roads. Short commute. Big smile on your face every morning. And evening when you get home.

No brainer of no brainers.

As for this:

I like to consider myself as “one who considers making small changes to help the environment”

Consider the Truth About the Toyota Prius.
http://clubs.ccsu.edu/Recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

the Yaris is a piece of trash

the Prius drives like novacaine

Pruis are fine cars for urban scooting. But until they have the same 30 year+ track record as 4 cylinder sticks, I wouldn’t recommend them for owning/driving into the ground. Full disclosure: I’m NOT environmentally conscious, but I like small cars. Happy shopping…

I’d suggest you add the (non-hybrid) Honda Civic sedan to your list.

The Civic has a lower initial purchase price than the Prius, offers more amenities (in EX trim) than the Yaris, and is rated as an Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (ULEV).

My 2006 Civic coupe (manual tranmission) has a lifetime average of 31.x MPG, from purchase date (7/11/2006), up ’til now (at 31k miles). And the Civic with an automatic transmission is rated a bit higher (by the EPA) than the manual.

It’s gotten good crash-test ratings; is a front-wheel drive car (so with four snow tires on it, goes great in the snow), and is quite reliable.

Just a thought.

Finally, as others have mentioned, the Honda Fit, (with its flexible interior), and due for a total redesign in 2009, may also be worth a look.

Good luck with your decision!

1) Preventive Maintenance

Have him grab a copy of the Hayne’s manual (which is very easy to read) at a local part’s store. If he is truly financially impoverished at this point, give him the means to get a very simple tool set and learn to do the basics on the car. (oil change, checking the air filter, cleaning the battery terminals, checking the fluids, etc). These are things you can train a monkey to do.

My decision to do that at an earlier age eventually helped me keep my wife’s cars running in good order until we got married and I could finally afford to buy her a late model vehicle. Over the course of a lifetime, that basic knowledge and understanding will net him a savings well into the five figures.

2) Have him hook up with some of the enthusiast groups and, yes, they do exist for minivan owners.

Yahoo has a few, allpar.com is a neat site for minivan owners, and I think Paul Niedermeyer may know of a few others as well. These sites can help greatly demystify the car repairs and car ownership experience and can help him from getting ripped off. Even today, if I still have a difficult issue with a vehicle I refer to those sites.

3) Small things can help an older vehicle run for a very long time… and will yield a happy and intelligent owner.

If the car looks tired it wouldn’t hurt to get it detailed. Also using top quality tires and parts make an ENORMOUS difference in how well a vehicle will run and be kept. I had a car that I kept for 239,000 miles and it still ran and shifted like new because I kept up with the maintenance schedule and used top quality components (the one area I’ve never skimped on). I was able to sell it for the same price as one with 100,000 fewer miles due to my diligent maintenance and conservative driving.

The only exception to this rule is fluids (engine oil in particular) and filters, which can be had on the cheap so long as they pass API SL standards. There will be a little insignia on the oil bottle that shows that sticker.

Overall, you will be far better off and he will be better off if he takes this time as one that can educate him and give him a greater degree of independence. When it comes to big issues, email me. Robert Farago will be happy to provide you with that information.

Figured a more normal retail market profit margin (comparable to the Katrina shortage), $175 per barrel pricing (long term), a modest $1.50 extra per gallon from this stupid CO2 bill which is going through Congress early in June (and will surely be passed), and concluded that by Memorial Day 2009, the average US price of fuel will be:

$12.00 per gallon.

I calculated that it would have been $12.77 a gallon except for a rather massive 12% drop in US demand (working out as a 6% drop in price) due to a massive recession and reduced fuel demand, exacerbated by the projected fuel price.

Anyone want to scan their credit card SIX TIMES to fill up an SUV, being limited to $50 per swipe?

Go Prius. You’ll find the room and comfort more to your liking long-term, compared to what you have now. Plus, by the time you add the equivalent safety equipment on the Yaris, the price is quite significantly higher than you might think.

Prius.

You could easily get a lease for 10,000 miles per year. And, as hybrid technology matures, at the end of your lease, you could buy the next generation of hybrid powertrains, if you choose. I believe the residuals (value at lease end) are going up as fuel prices trend up.

Sorry, two different cars, different look, different dimensions, different engines:

http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/toyota/yaris/100919897/researchlanding.html
http://www.edmunds.com/new/2008/scion/xd/100903479/researchlanding.html