I picked mine up for a shade over $20,000 and it kicks some serious ass – I can’t get it to understeer!

If you’re all about that A4 AWD thing, you could rock a 2.5 turbo legacy and have a nice quick 4-door.

Other than that, I have nothing to add. Enjoy debt?

The answer depends on you, and you alone. Not us.

We can name over a hundred different models that have given millions of people what they wanted in a car. It’s an easy game to play. But in the end none of these people are you. Overall the best thing you can do is the following…

1) Make a list of your top five and see if you can rent them for a day.

There are rental car companies that will gladly rent a vehicle out to someone who is under 25. Many of them offer the latest and greatest of what’s out there. Spend the day driving one and figure out which will be your best fit.

2) Figure out which options are more important than others.

Are you willing to get the four cylinder instead of the six if that means you’ll also get the leather interior? There are dozens of variations on this, but it all comes down to what you want in your car.

3) Look at the ease of maintenance

You will not only be happier with a car you can perform basic maintenance on (oil changes, air filter, spark plugs and wires), but you’ll also get to know more about cars in general.

That’s important. All the lowlife’s in the car business prey upon a customer’s ignorance. It can range from bogus repairs to not knowing how to fix a problem that is relatively simple. Doing the basic work yourself will put you at a much stronger position as a visitor to repair shops and dealerships as the decades roll on. By knowing your car’s strengths and foibles, you’ll inevitably find those mechanics who have similar taste and integrity. That ingredient will be far more critical to your long-term happiness than a few hundred dollars difference in the retail price.

Best of luck…

And check out insurance rates for any cars you are interested in before you buy, to avoid unpleasant surprises

There is no reasonable answer to someone choosing between chevrolet and Audi and insisting on 24k. Its a setup designed to make people debate.

We’re The Truth About Cars– not a reality TV show. I simply tidied up an email sent to the ttac address and posted it.

If you have a question for TTAC’s Best and Brightest, please send it to robert.farago@thetruthaboutcars.com

There is no reasonable answer to someone choosing between chevrolet and Audi and insisting on 24k. Its a setup designed to make people debate.

OK. So, buy a new Mazda3 2.0 for 15k, with power windows and doorlocks. Or wait for next gen. 2009. Learn to drive. If you insist on burning more money get a new A3. Off the lot. No automatics. A3 is definitely a faster, sportier, more tossable car than A4.

This week Autoweek shows a BMW 2002 in mint condition that went for $22k. This is a sweet car.

Find the most expensive 1991 MR2, low mile original, it will be at least 24k. Women will think its cute. It is and its a great car.

My CPO 2002 A4 averages 30 mpg city/highway over 45,000 miles now. Yes the CEL glows. Dealer cannot fix, we try again next week.

I met the girl that I eventually married when I had that Mustang. I knew she was ok because I had my Dad’s Dodge 600 (turbo!) on the night we met and she agreed to see me again. We’re still together 20 years later so to me, that car was the best investment of my life!

After the new car debacle, I bought a used 86 GTI with cash and kept it for about 4 years. My favorite car. I would probably buy a white 4 door GTI if I was 21 again. Good luck.

Domestic Hearse :
April 18th, 2008 at 4:38 pm

She wonders to herself, “Hmmm, wonder what he drives? Hopefully not some 10-year old import with go-fast boyracer wings. Or some jacked-up little weenie monster truck. Or some hand-me down old-man sedan.”

God help you if you date a woman like this. Ideally, your future wife should be more frugal and less materialistic than you. For short term hookups, liquor and a sense of humor will get you farther than any car.

I’m not about to comment on your finances. Maybe you’re a millionaire that only wants to spend to 32K, or maybe a 24K car will put you 20K into debt. Doesn’t matter. Judgments about fiscal responsibility or lack thereof would be baseless, and assuming debt is a personal decision.

Anyway, if you like the styling, I’d look at a Mazda3 in sedan or hatchback form. It handles well and the interior quality is really decent. Edmunds loves the car. Otherwise, try the Volvo S40. It looks more expensive than it is, and both handling and interior quality are excellent. Either of these are strong values at ~18-24K new. A third option is a Mustang V6. Not the most sophisticated car, but it’s screwed together well, plenty fast, looks great, and barrels of fun to drive.

In the used market, beyond the three above, you might also consider some of the forgotten American attempts at sport sedans: Lincoln’s LS, the previous-gen Cadillac CTS, and the Mazda6. Acura’s TSX is a more mainstream option. It’s a bit anonymous relatively speaking, but competent at everything. All of these are 17-21K for a 2006 model. None are quite as entertaining as a BMW, but they’re reasonable facsimiles and drive better than the vast majority of cars on the road.

There are piles of cars, both used and new, that are perfectly adequate for reliable transportation. Civics, Corollas, and the like. I assume above that you want something that’s a bit less of a conveyance.

I wouldn’t overly concern yourself with power or RWD. The Mustang is the only recent inexpensive RWD vehicle with both that I’d suggest. The BMWs and Audis of the world can be marvelous if they hold up, but maintenance is luck of the draw. Even small items are expensive to fix. If the car isn’t CPO’d, large items can cost well into the multi-thousands. If you buy a 20K used BMW, you have to have both the ability (and perhaps even the expectation) to drop another 4-5K on the car over the next few years of ownership beyond gas, insurance, and oil changes. If you can’t or don’t want to do that, don’t buy a used Euro.

There’s also a name premium that tends to drive up resale values, so you get less car for the money. That name premium is what you pay for in a lower-end BMW; most of the driving magic is reserved for higher tiers.

For GOD’S SAKE, do NOT buy a new car! Even if you CAN pay cash, and most especially if you can’t! Are your student loans, credit cards or any other debt you might be carrying paid off? Take care of business first.

What about all the other stuff you’ll want to have or take care of? A decent place to live, some nice clothes, etc? Don’t wrap up all your money in a car!

PAYING INTEREST SUCKS. Avoid it as much as possible.

I nearly soiled myself when I saw that some of you are paying $300 a month on up for insurance… that alone is a good reason for someone just starting out to not to have a new car, paid for or not. That’s at least $3600 a year… damn near $10K over three years. Is it worth it?

For now, your best move is to get a good, solid used car for around $10K (or even better, less than that) and get basic liability insurance coverage. Up the road, if you’ve saved your $$$, you’ll be able to pay cash (or at least a hefty down payment) on whatever your heart desires.

This all said, I will support your idea of a 4-door… having a ride that can transport all your pals at once without a fuss is a great thing!

And a final note… any girl/woman who judges your character on your ownership of something as insignificant as a mass-manufactured consumer product (like a new car) isn’t worth dating and should be avoided like the plague.

Despite all this, if paying cash and footing the insurance bills is no problem for you… by all means, get whatever you want. I’d go for not working for a few years and doing some traveling, myself… most especially if I was 21 again.

Good luck and happy shopping!

Jonny Lieberman : The only high-cost item with the WRX, and I’m not sure how often it happens, is gearbox failure on non-STI cars.

How about also considering a used Acura TL? Its styling seems to be the inspiration for the Malibu you seem to like, you can get it with a 6MT (though probably hard to find), it has an ‘upmarket’ image, and it should be sturdy and reliable.

BTW, spending over $20k on a car at your age is one of the dumbest financial ‘investments’ you can make. It’s hard being a car nut :)

Some fun cheaper used cars:
Saab 900 turbo/SPG
Acura Integra GS-R
Subaru Legacy GT
Subaru SVX (MT not offered)
Toyota MR2
Nissan 240 SX
Honda Prelude
Honda CRX
Mazda Miata
Ford Focus SVT
VW Golf GTI MK2
VW Scirocco/Corrado
VW Passat
Audi A4 1.8T MK1
Audi 80/90
Audi Quattro
BMW 3-Series E36
BMW 5-Series E34
Alfa 164
Alfa Spider

Will we get to hear the decision?

1) It looks awesome. (At least I think so)
2) It’s 300HP and RWD. Way fun, makes a great noise, huuuge selection of aftermarket mods if that’s your thing.
3) It’s better fuel economy than you think – I get around 22mpg combined on mine, on regular 87 octane. When you consider that turbo’d engines need more expensive premium gas you’re spending close to the same thing at the pump.
4) Better handling than you think. The new Mustang’s been cleaning up its class (and every other stock class other than A stock) in SCCA Autocross competition. I think there’s no better measure of tight-course handling that autox.
5) 5 star crash safety
6) Above average reliability according to Consumer’s Report. Ford’s been doing good the last little while on CR and JD Power.
7) You can actually fit 4 adults on short trips. Pretty reasonable luggage capacity too.
8) It’s in its 4th model year. They’ve ironed out all the bugs, demand has quieted so you can get some good rebates and deals.
9) It’s a domestic, so lower maintenance costs.
10) It’s cheap! You can get one for the bottom end of your price range.
11) The way CAFE and regulations are going, this might be your last chance to own a V8.

I’ve been very happy with mine – have fun with your new car whatever you pick ! :)

BMWs, Volvos and just about anything European become very, very expensive to keep in good condition after they get in the over 5 years old range. An M3 also is likely to have been driven hard. It might seem “cool”, but I wouldn’t touch a used one.

1) Buy dirt cheap used car and save money for upcoming recession. But if you still want to spend then

2) Buy used, pre-certified with long warranty (no repair bills)

3) Buy something you WANT to drive, forget about practical, you will hate it and sell it (probably at a loss) first chance you can get.

4) Look for high miles per gallon, avoid cars that require premium gas only. By 2010 you will thank yourself. By 2010 gas guzzlers will be worth nothing (Prius has the highest resale according to Kelly Blue Book).

5) Get something the girls like, your 21 man and time to have fun. The Malibu is NOT a babe-magnet.

get a used Toyota something or other and then get your self a nice cbr600rr for 6g’s!

Perfect compromise!!

Secondly, do not, under any circumstances, if you ever want to have sex again, buy the Malibu.

Now, back to my first point. The idea is to get something that isn’t expensive to buy or own (meaning insure, fuel, maintain or fix). This means used, it also means that names like Audi, BMW, Mercedes, Evo, STI and the like are off the menu (for now). Tempting though they may be, I’d also think carefully about such monikers as WRX, GTI , Cooper S and Mazdaspeed for the same reasons.

This doesn’t mean you’re restricted to the used automotive vanilla of Camrys, Accords, Civics and Altimas though (and many of these choices have their appeal). You seem to like stylish sedans, that’s OK (I’m more of a dorky hatch / wagon guy myself, but to each their own). What about the following lightly used alternatives to the usual Toyondan suspects:

Legacy GT – As much fun as a WRX, without the insurance and stoplight aggro, a hooligan with an angelic face. Bulletproof & nice enough inside too. Thirsty though

Mazda 3 – Inexpensive, reliable, good to drive, looks classy in the right colour. It is an econobox at heart though, so the interior ain’t Lexus-like, but it is likeable.

Mazda 6 – Much the same attributes as the 3 only bigger and a better used bargain. Reliability isn’t quite as good though.

Infiniti G35 – A bit pricier, but a nice, mostly reliable car with more than a dash of style. Likes a drink though and some say it’s just a posh Nissan – who cares.

Acura TSX – Also a bit pricier, but svelte, classy, fun, reliable and economical. Yes, it’s a dressed up Euro Accord, but it is good

Volvo S60 – A bit different, but a nice car with no real vices. They’re even reasonably reliable, beware the repair bills should they come though.

Mini Cooper – OK, not a sedan, but such fun, quite frugal and it has a style of it’s own (love it or loathe it). Not terribly good value used and not always terribly reliable either though.

Domestic brands depreciation is harsh, to say the very least.

Toyota, Honda, Mazda, etc. are the best bets. The Japanese brands all have sedans that have acceptable handling characteristics, good economy, hold a reasonable value and look damn sporty too!

And I fully agree with the earlier posts recommending against the boy-racer models.

Yes, spend half as much on a used car, and put the difference towards retirement. Probably won’t impress the young ladies, though. And I’ll presume that you’ve got at least that much of a brain in your head, and can actually afford the kind of dough you’re talking about.

So, well, let’s have a look at Consumer Reports. Yes, heavily despised by “enthusiasts,” but there =is= some useful information in their stuff. For instance, the April car issue gives you a round number for each car’s fuel mileage over their test loop — good, comparable mileage numbers.

Also, CR’s reliability ratings =are= generally accurate. Take them with a “general” sense — gosh, just think in terms of going for something around the top of the list, instead of something around the bottom of the list. This =is= a lot of money, and, golly, I just can’t even begin to understand why people will shell out =any= amount of money for the horrifyingly unreliable European imports. You won’t be impressing the ladies by renting a stripper Cobalt because you raided your savings yet again to put your BMW into the shop for the 20th time.

OK a little hyperbole, but again, take a general look towards getting reliability for your money. DEFINITELY go into online forums for the cars you’re really considering, and see what owners are putting up with, or not. More importantly, get a grip on whether dealers are fixing any problems under warranty, or doing everything they can to avoid fixing anything under warranty.

As for cars, “I haven’t seen a Mazda I’d ever want to buy, yet.” Sorry. Given the insurance advice to get into a sedan, I’d go along with that, though. Buying new isn’t such a bad idea, if you get into something that you’ll still find useful long after you’re done paying for it, so look past the little boy racers, and think of an uplevel sedan. The whole Accord / Camry / Altima and similar range covers everything from the low 20’s to the high 20’s and a bit beyond, and you =can= get into some style and luxury and performance, if you pick the right models and engines. For instance, the Camry SE V6 has plenty of performance and handling, though no manual. Add your choice of tint, wheels, and such, and you can personalize it plenty. And the same goes for everything else in this range — plenty of power, and most everyone has something that’ll handle better than the cheap, plain-vanilla version.

(Not that you could get me to touch one of those dog-butt-ugly new Accord sedans with a ten-foot pole, though…. Bleah!)

Still, a high-end version of anything in this segment can give you plenty of performance, plus luxury, refinement, and all of the other reasons that so many people buy them. Plus, they’re generally around the top of that reliability list, not at the bottom.

But if you’re going to buy new, MazdaSpeed3 is your best bet. Functional, far more performance than you need, and $22K nicely equipped.