So if you compare British prices, how is a Mazdaspeed 3 $23,000?
Base price for a Mazdaspeed3 in GB is 19,000 Pounds.

The 147 is a little bit… old. Other than that it’s actually pretty nice. Especially the 150hp diesel with the Torsen LSD. It doesn’t feel like a FWD car.
The only thing that eliminated it from my shopping list was the insurance rating.

To answer a few of the posts:

- Virages: thank you for the interesting information! And I sure feel relieved whenever the owner of a car I review agrees with my conclusions.

- Vega: thanks for answering Edgett’s question for me. I’d add that the 146 had a boxer too.

- 1981.911.SC: you address a real conundum I had when you ask about the 4-star rating.

You see, based on the statistics, I was going to give it three stars but that just didn’t feel right. This car gave me real feelings of joy when I drove it fast. One time, when I had a bout of insomnia, I got out of bed in the middle of the night and went outside for a drive — it’s that seductive. It’s no Plymouth GLH, either: with its excellent chassis, it has real substance too. So I said what the hell, I’ll give it four stars — knowing many would disagree.

- Incitatus: both the Subaru flying vagina and the Edsel horse-collar/vagina were heavy-handed attempts at creating a brand image, and employed the parody of a radiator grille. The Alfa snout has been right there for half a century. I think there’s a difference.

- Gardiner Westbound: sorry, the TTAC picture editor culled the four-door versions. Here a gallery of other 147’s:
http://www.pixamo.com/users/martinffm/view?thing=166897

- FromBrazil: thanks very much for the kind compliment! And I’ll see whether I can get hold of the Fiat.

- Juniper1: I agree with you 100%.

- V6: you are right.

I have owned around 10 Alfas of all types in the last 25 years including at least one of a Giulietta, Spider, Berlina, Alfetta, GT, GTV, GTV6, and 164. Of course I have other European and American cars as well and I can tell you that Alfas have always been special, well engineered, efficient, enjoyable, and satisfying machines.
They’re not for everyone and neither is any other car worth having, and unless you’re dealing with utterly and completely utilitarian devices, there’s no point comparing them to anything else on the basis of cost, performance, and features. Is there a family car you can buy new today that is incapable of outperforming and E-type in one dimension or the other? I doubt it. It will be a sad world if this logic resulted in everyone driving Corollas. Buy an Alfa if you want one and please don’t buy one if you don’t.

I guess I don’t understand why anyone who claims to be an automobile enthusiast would project ridiculous and uninformed opinions regarding what many others consider to be great cars with a rich and unequaled history in motorsports and many innovations. I admit I also don’t understand why someone who loves Fords must hate Chevys (allow me to make this generalization based on personal observation rather than scientific fact), if you consider yourself a “car guy” then do yourself a favor and stop being a “Mazda-, BMW-, MB-, Whatever- guy”. Look at a car’s merits objectively and from the perspective of your own personal preferences before you spew out useless nonsense about topics you’re not qualified to discuss. You’re just making a fool of yourself in public.

Thanks for reading this vent.

First off – forget Alfa reliability issues. The 156 has done 65000 mile in 2 trouble free years, normally being thrashed, always loaded with work gear. The 147 at 4 and a half years old burns a little oil, but the T spark always did.

Economy – Its a heavy car and the 1.6 is to small for it. With the 2.0 it should average well over 30 MPG. The 2.4 (a unique to Alfa 5 cylinder turbo, also in the 159 and Brera/spider) averages 45. It gets 35MPG at 110mph, 50 mpg cruising at 80mph.

Build – these are previous generation, so arnt BMW quality, but the current ones really are. Yes the 147 gearchange is sloppy, but the 156 isnt. Who knows why, they are so similar mechanically.

Competition – sit in your ultra reliable Mazda/Honda/Nissan. Do you feel special? Just seen yourself in a store window reflection? Like the way the light catches the shape of the car? Really? Thought not. And as for American cars, no wonder Detriots in trouble, they might be cheap, but you get what you pay for. Ive seen better plastic packaging than some US luxury car dashboards…

You cant compare any car from the early 90s to current models. Mud sticks, but EVERYTHING was crap at that point, some just had better PR!

Considering 1 Euro = 1.5 USD, that’s about 50% more expensive than in the US.

Now let’s compare Mazda 3 with the 147 in terms of performance, utility and reliability. No matter how you put it, I don’t see the 147 reaching 70% of the Mazda 3’s substance. In that sense, the 147 would be absolutely over-priced, if it’s anywhere above 15k Euro or 22.5k USD.

As a matter of fact, driving a 2002 Golf, I often end up passing those cars, more than often driven under the speed limit by retirees….

Could you do the new Fiat Bravo. It’ll be coming to Brazil in a year or less, and by what I’ve read so far, I’d like one very much. Since I enjoyed very much your review of the Alfa 147, I’d love to see what you think of the Bravo.

Thanks in advance!!

Please, let’s keep in mind that a car can still be a joy to drive when it’s “slow”. Like the saying goes it is more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow.

I drive a 115HP VW Cabrio. Fun little car and it has done the daily trips with good comfort, sporty performance when I need it, and I can put the top down. No, I’m not going to scare any Shelby Mustangs or Corvettes but then why would I try?

Just happy getting 30 mpg, fun to drive faster on the backroads, can load up the wife and kids for a quick trip to Grandma’s house 100 miles away, etc etc etc.

The Alfas I knew in Italy (3 years) were fun cars. All of them needed a little more attention than a modern Honda but the attention was seldom expensive or complicated. Much like my VWs.

Anyway, Alfas just like Fiats, had a terrible 80s, a recovering 90s and are now coming back into their own. Great handling, fun-inducing driving. I, for one, am glad they’re back. I’d rather put up with a little “perceived” lack of realiability for everything else they offer. If some people had their way, we’d all just drive Japanese.

No thanks!!

FWIW, this car is beautiful and the upcoming 149 will be even more so. I’d buy it in heartbeat.

Has anyone else already said it? These cars have soul. More than any BMW series 1 ou Audi whatever could ever dream of.

Just saying…

Well, why not.

GM paid FIAT about 1.5 billion US dollars (when those were still worth something) only to be able to part with them when FIAT hit a low point and after that FIAT has had a very good record of turning the company around towards profitability.

They focused on where they’ve always been good at, namely building small cars, which is now starting to give their bigger cars more credibility again as well.

In fact it seems like they finally are in a position to give Lancia a decent range of cars again, and also financially compared to the industry in general, they’re not doing so bad at all.

The brand image you are picturing seems to be based on their early 90s cars, which I would say is completely right for that time, yet I think not accurate anymore nowadays.

And sure, if you’re willing to sacrifice everything that makes a car stand out in any way like driving dynamics and design for plain vanilla reliability you should buy a driving apllience like an excruciatingly boring Toyota and forget about cars.

Still, they could do a good niche business here again. I would recommend they improve the gear shift feel though.

This is exactly the kind of car that could take off here if offered by a more reputable brand. Good looking, high efficiency, fun to drive, practical, and cheap.

Worse. I owned an Alfa.

It was the sorriest POS ever built. It sucked gas, was slower than a candied turd, and dreadfully, suicidally unreliable.

Once I luckily escaped from ownership, at a steeply discounted price, it caused much searing soul searching about my personal character defects that drove me into making such an terrible decision.

Alfa’s are made for people with too much money coupled with no personal merit. They are a dandy’s car: all superficial looks and pizzaz and no substance. I imagine if Alfa ever does return to the US market, it will focus on Las Vegas and Hollywood. B level actors, lounge lizards and all the other oily hoi poloi.

BTW, when the aging and obsolete Alfa Duetto was last sold new in the United States in the late 80’s and early 90’s, it sold for in excess of 30 large. This is when a new loaded Miata could be had for $18,000.

I doubt they have come to their senses about pricing since. Why would they, apparently theres some Alfa koolaid drinkers out there.

And owned by Fiat? We won’t discuss that troubled company’s connections with GM, now will we?

The nail has been hit…

Alfa today makes cars that can compete with the other offerings in the market regardless of image and styling. To get to that point, every car they launched in the last 10 years or so has been a big improvement over its predecessors, as will be the new 149 when it will be here, which we already know because the previously mentioned FIAT Bravo upon which it will be based is a good car with modern small turbocharged engines, as can be seen in this TV commercial, now with bonus zjerman language dialogue.

Bravo Schuey Raikkonen

Bravo

And on the pricing issue; after all stupid taxes and rediculous green taxes, a base Porsche Cayenne Turbo can be yours in the Netherlands for 163,973 Euro, which against 1.50 would be US$245,959.50. So translating European prices into US prices really doesn’t serve too many points.

That’s correct. Cars are much more expensive in most of the world in comparison to the US. In addition to taxes, etc., a lot of it is due to the size of the US market. Practically everyone wants a piece of it, and they need to sell cars for less if they are to compete in a country with 300 million people.

Just one example — a VW Passat with a 2.0 liter gas turbo and manual transmission carries an MSRP of $24,680. In the UK, the same car with similar equipment carries a retail price of L21,525, or about $43,000. In France, it would cost E34,400, or about $51,000.

The comparison isn’t apples to apples, because the European prices include tax, license fees, etc.. But even those components don’t explain the entire price difference.

If Alfa sold these here, they would have to be priced more in line with the competition. Not that they could sell many of them — most Americans wouldn’t touch a low-priced Italian car if you put a gun to their heads.

“Alfa sells cars in niche markets with lax or nonexistent safety, emissions and economy standards”

Yeah, niche markets like Europe.

“Why are there so many Alfa dealers in NZ with so few Mazda dealers? Because Mazda focuses on the lucrative US market”

Yeah, cause everybody knows that any brand has only a globally limited nubmer of dealers. That’s why many US dealers means —> no NZ dealers. Right. Oh, and at EUR/USD 1.50, the US market is not a lucrative market for a european company.

Judging a brand from the viewpoint of a small and remote niche market (like NZ, population 4.3m) can obviously be quite distorting.

Oh, and pease please stop using European prices directly converted to Dollars to compare car prices, because: a) prices in Europe are generally higher (partly due to included VAT) and b) it’s not that Europe has been getting more expensive in the last few years, the US has become cheap. European wages and prices didn’t suddenly collapse just because the Dollar has tanked. Stop being so USA-centric.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/driving/new_car_reviews/article1428800.ece

A $60,000 US car that does 0-60 in 8.8 seconds is pretty much underwhelming. And then there is the hotrodded version, for $10,000 more that does 0-60 in ….. yawn……ummm, where did I leave the Fritos this time…… hold it ……..7 seconds. Did I hear you say 7 seconds?

And a whopping 260 horsepower. Wow.

For 70 large, you should rightfully expect and get deep into the fours. A $60,000 car in the high eights is nothing short of a scandal!

The Europeans, because they have no choice but to buy this garbage, are far less fawning about them than Americans.

The car is lacking in every department. As subjective as a car’s looks might be, this one is plain silly. The statement that it looks better in person might hold true, but by how much?!

A 120HP engine getting below 30MPG and when pushed as thursty as a freaking Escalade?! All that for a 0-60 of over 10 seconds?

Questionable safety, reliability and a jaw-dropping price badged as a virtually bankrupt marque like Alfa can only get a 4 out of 5 on an online review. Everywhere else, the underestimated Mazda 3, Miata, Civic, and even the rediculed Cobalt win by a landslide.

Google “Alfa Romeo” with “bailout” or “troubled” or “government subsidy” if you want a clear picture of a once proud marque.

The time for the TTAC “death watch” is long past, this is a company that is brain dead and has been on artificial life support for decades, waiting only for a court order to turn off the respirator.

This is not a competitive car from a competitive company. Alfa sells cars in niche markets with lax or nonexistent safety, emissions and economy standards. Why are there so many Alfa dealers in NZ with so few Mazda dealers? Because Mazda focuses on the lucrative US market (Miata: the best British roadster ever designed in California for the California market). Alfa can’t compete here and so it doesn’t.