By on May 6, 2017

2017 Jaguar F-Pace - Image: Jaguar

Ralf Speth isn’t having it. Across Europe governments are cracking down on the use of diesel vehicles in a bid to lower air pollution, especially in the Jaguar Land Rover CEO’s own country. London has announced plans to levy stiff charges on anyone driving a diesel-powered vehicle through central areas of the capital starting in early 2019, adding fuel to the anti-diesel fire. Paris, Berlin and Athens also plan to ban the technology.

With compression ignition still a significant part of the automaker’s engine lineup — both in Europe and North America — Speth recently defended the technology’s importance in a finger-pointing spiel. The world needs diesel, he claimed, and the media (and Volkswagen) haven’t done anything to help the situation.

Speaking to UK’s Autocar, Speth claimed the need for improvements in diesel technology are crucial for his company and the broader industry. Jaguar Land Rover plans to ramp up messaging about the benefits of modern diesels.

“The latest diesel technology is really such a step in emissions, performance, particulates; it’s better for the environment when compared to [an equivalent] petrol,” Speth said. “Diesel has to – needs to – have a future.”

As diesels form the backbone of commercial and transit fleets the world over, more work is needed to keep it viable in the face of ever-stricter emissions regulations, the CEO remarked. However, the challenge doesn’t come solely from lawmakers — public perception has taken a huge hit. Speth implied the media has played a role in certain misconceptions by combining images of chugging oil burners of yesteryear with cleaner modern vehicles.

“Anyone can see the black smoke coming out of old diesels is bad. We need to replace them with newer ones,” he said.

There’s some truth to Speth’s remarks, as anyone near the media industry knows a sooty tailpipe from a 1980s-vintage diesel makes for a great image to lead off a segment. Many will remember the college professor with the fearsomely slow inline-six Volvo 240 diesel or, if they grew up in America, the rattling Oldsmobiles diesels of 35 years ago.

Media aside, Speth blames Volkswagen’s emissions cheating for kicking off the current war against the technology.

“Nobody believes the automotive industry anymore,” he said. “They see us as offenders and not giving the right information. We have to show our technology is the best you can buy, to reduce the damage to health and the environment.”

Speth claims banning diesels from cities and attempting to usher them out of the marketplace will end up shooting environmentalists and regulators in the foot. While the future of the industry lies in electrification, the diesel backlash is harming emissions targets by spurring a return to gasoline engines, he said.

In addition to more lenient rules against gasoline cars, the London plan will see diesel vehicles that don’t meet new Euro 6 emissions standards fined £12.50 ($16.23 USD) to drive through central London. Buses and commercial trucks would pay about $130 per trip. Put another way, that’s a $16 one-way fine for the technology in a five-year-old car.

Continued advancement of Jaguar diesel technology would certainly garner applause from auto journos, many of whom haven’t taken too kindly to the diesel F-Pace and XE.

[Image: Jaguar Land Rover]

 

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

Recommended

43 Comments on “Stop Being So Mean to Diesels, Pleads Jaguar Land Rover Boss...”


  • avatar
    ajla

    Build a gas I6 and shut up.

    • 0 avatar
      E85

      The problem is not the engine it’s the fuel. If these compression ignition engines ran on clean fuel like bioethanol there would be no problems. They need to ban petrodiesel not ci engines. CI engines are much more efficient than spark ignition engines due to the much higher compression ratio. And running on pure bioethanol is even better. An engine designed to run on straight bioethanol like the Ricardo engine can produce twice the power and torque of equivalent ci engine.

  • avatar
    jalop1991

    “There’s some truth to Speth’s remarks, as anyone near the media industry knows a sooty tailpipe from a 1980s-vintage diesel makes for a great image to lead off a segment.”

    Or a picture of a coal roller from…an hour ago.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    It’s clear JLR has too many billions tied up in their current/upcoming diesels. Or why do they care so much? It’s their own fault anyway.

    Greed too, as they were licking their chops, watching VW “Clean Diesel” TDIs eat everyone’s lunch.

    Diesels in passenger cars and light trucks have run their course. And if anyone was paying attention, the fairly well known, health fallout from diesels was the reason for the strong movement towards clean diesels in the US, starting decades ago.

    It started in California about the same time (early ’90s) Europe was finally requiring catalytic converters for gasoline autos.

    It was just a matter of time. Investing in EV technology was the better move.

    • 0 avatar
      Jagboi

      One reason they care is 95% of JLR sales in Europe are diesels. I can’t see a single reason why anyone would buy a gasoline engine there, when diesels have the superior torque for real world driving and use half the fuel.

      Diesel costs a couple of pence more per liter in the UK, but for an average a car buyer buying a diesel means their fuel bill is half that of a gasoline car.

      • 0 avatar
        highdesertcat

        But can JLR break even on diesels sold in Europe? Diesels do not sell well in the US, except to a small dedicated niche group who prefer VW.

        Maybe JLR will get innovative and make an EV hybrid drive train with a diesel-powered generator, alike to a diesel-powered Volt.

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          @highdesertcat
          Can Ford break even selling Pickups in the US? Basically a very similar question. A lot of new Jaguar sales will be with new Integnum diesel, that is Speth has introduced
          “While the future of the industry lies in electrification, the diesel backlash is harming emissions targets by spurring a return to gasoline engines, he said.”

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            RobertRyan, yes, I know. I have family in Germany and Portugal, and a cousin living near SpadeAdam, Scotland.

            We communicate often, and this topic was brought up. For them it looks like a toss-up at decision time. Another diesel OR a Hybrid.

            I told them that the US market was not a good indicator for either of those two. In the US, very few buy either one.

            I also said, that gasoline remains MY first choice as the best all-weather fuel, even if I lived in Europe.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @highdesertcat
            Hybrids are rare here, but they are now using them for Taxi’s , Toyota Camry Hybrids. It is Gas engines for cars, Diesels for Pickups

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            RobertRyan, “Hybrids are rare here,”

            Yeah, that’s what I’ve been told.

            Where are you at?

            BTW, isn’t there a proclivity in Europe for buying European? JLR may present themselves as European, but they’re not.

            Neither is Volvo Swedish. Or Chrysler American.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @highdesertcat
            Australia. Yes they buy European mostly. Who now owns Jaguar/ Volvo is irrelevant as the vehicles, design and engineering work is done in Europe.
            Chrysler defintely is not. Fiat is . So they buy Fiats but not Chrysler.
            Major outlier is Ford, but their sales are shrinking in Europe, being in the process of being overtaken by Fiat.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            “…One reason they care is 95% of JLR sales in Europe are diesels.”

            They sorta need to fix that, wouldn’t you say? Sounds simpler to me, vs convincing the whole European market and policymakers to go back and coddle/subsidize diesels again. It appears there’s no turning back. Wasn’t it a colossal mistake, in light of all the health/cancer related issued linked to diesels?

            “…I can’t see a single reason why anyone would buy a gasoline engine there, when diesels have the superior torque for real world driving and use half the fuel.”

            Gasoline engines aren’t that far behind in terms of torque and mpg. Except there’s lots more reasons why consumers pick a car. Like simplicity, reliability and future (read cheap) serviceability.

            There’s far too many unknowns with diesels. And are you getting something truly “clean”? Will its emissions be recalled later on? Or banned from your favorite cities and towns?

      • 0 avatar
        RobertRyan

        @Jagboi
        Like asking Ford to stop making Pickups. They make well over 50% of Diesels in cars in Europe, and the newer diesels are in increasing. Concern about people switching to gas engines is justified as the particulates from DI is a lot worse.

        • 0 avatar
          Jagboi

          Denver Mike:
          Don’t forget the price of fuel in Europe is 2-3X the cost in the US. As my relatives there put it, in the USA fuel is pocket change. In Europe, it’s a budget item, right up there with food.

          I look at the Jaguar XF for example after driving a 5.0 V8 (gas) in North America and a 3.0 V6 diesel in England. The 5.0 does 0-60 in 5.7s and I averaged about 22 mpg (imperial gallons). The 3.0D does 0-60 in 5.9s and I averaged almost exactly 50 mpg. In real world driving it felt faster than the V8 because it has 450 ft-lbs at 1600 rpm and no turbo lag. It was simply effortless power. After driving both, I would never pick the gas V8.

          I believe now about 75% of cars sold in the UK are diesel, so in terms of getting servicing done, a gas engine is the odd one out. Diesel has been the majority for a long time now, so there are not concerns about reliability from a consumer perspective.

          From an operating cost perspective in the UK (which includes road tax) a diesel is a much cheaper car to operate.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @Jagboi – I’m a huge fan of diesels too, just not the latest round of squeaky clean diesels. I’ve owned and own more diesels than gasoline burners.

            But your numbers don’t exactly make sense. Are you quoting from an older gas V8 (or older tech) vs a newer diesel V6, but before full clean emissions? Can you explain further?

            50 mpg “average” wouldn’t happen in the US (maybe only possible in Europe???), not even if it ways downhill both ways with a back wind pushing you the whole time! Not with a V6 diesel in a midsize anything.

            Servicing a gas engine is cheap/simple and they don’t require much. It’s been that way and will remain. Diesels are a whole other ballgame, especially if they’re modern, “clean” diesels. Let’s be honest here.

            It’s hard to let if you’re dealing with those or talking older “dirty” diesels. Yeah I love those, and I’ll keep my ’86 6.9 diesel F-250, ’99 F-350 7.3 diesel and ’06 F-350 6.0 diesel as long as I can. Notice they’re all “pre-emissions”.

            Diesels were never intended to run “clean”. They’re dirty by nature and we knew the party would end some day. Now it’s all about gasoline, hybrids, EVs, or who knows what else.

            An automaker can continue to push ahead with diesels as their main engine choices, but it’s their funeral.

      • 0 avatar
        tekdemon

        The efficiency claims you’re making are overblown. I have a tdi and yes it gets great fuel economy on the highway on long road trips but if you account for the extra energy on diesel fuel that advantage pretty much disappears. Newer gasoline motors have efficiency ratios just as high as diesel engines (even higher in some new cars like the 2018 Camry hybrid and we’re just talking about the engine itself). The low end torque is also now commonly found on turbo gas motors so it’s no longer unique to diesel (and the fact that diesels are all turbos is a big part of the torque curve). I like my tdi but in mixed driving it doesn’t really get anything close to what you’re claiming in terms of fuel economy. The only people who really benefit are folks who take really long highway drives all the time and even then it’s very dependent on how much diesel costs where you live. I’m lucky because there’s one local gas station where diesel is only a 20 cent premium vs regular but most stations here charge more than premium fuel which negates the savings entirely.

        I think turbos have most utility in larger vehicles like trucks used in more rural areas where they put on a ton of highway miles and where the gas equivalent uses an insane amount of fuel.

        • 0 avatar
          Jagboi

          Mike: I’m comparing the mileage figures I achieved driving in the UK in a 2015 model year XF (275 hp version)vs a 2013 gasoline XF in Canada (which has identical emissions to USA market cars). I have also rented the 240 hp version and usually get about 2-3 mpg less than the 275 hp version.

          I have also driven a rental 2016 XE (thanks, Avis!) with the 2.0 diesel in the UK and I was able to average 57 mpg from when I picked it up at Heathrow to when I dropped it off a week later. That’s a mix of city and highway driving, and I wasn’t driving for economy. The official rating for pure highway driving on that car was 68 mpg, 75 mpg for the lower HP version which I didn’t have.

          I recorded mow many miles I drove and how many litres I put in the tank and came up with the mileage. It was very close to what the trip computer said too( within 1%).

          These are current Euro spec emissions cars which do have the urea fluid added.

          • 0 avatar
            DenverMike

            @Jagboi – Something is clearly lost in “translation”. The Prius (non plug-in) on this side of the pond gets an average of 50 mpg according to owners (fuelly.com), which is close to what it’s officially rated for.

            The same Prius in the UK is rated for more than 90 mpg. Maybe you yourself drive with an extremely light foot, but what are drivers of diesel XF/XE Jags typically averaging, taking yourself out of the equation?

          • 0 avatar
            Adam_

            I was about to ask you (Jagboi) if you lived in the UK as you seem to know so much about it. Your spelling of “liter” gave you away. And you have hired a couple so you know it all. There is, or was a small tax advantage to diesels in the form of a tax relief called BIK “Benefit In Kind” and slightly lower annual road tax. The road tax advantage is gone and the cars are typically more expensive to buy. Depreciation on the diesels is also increasing markedly because of perpetual problems withe emission control equipment. This is mainly clogged inlet tracts in direct injection units, failed turbos, failed EGRs, failed Dual Mass Flywheels (because we are mostly stick here and europe) and blocked up DPF’s. Hire cars are disposed of at auction at six months and then retailed as CPO’s. So you are not going to have problems with the ones you are hiring. They also count as fleet sales and if you look at the numbers, that’s where they are going. Petrol model sales are up by 10% so far this year. The jag may get better milege but with each increment of emsssions regs, we are now at Euro 6, the difference declines. From the dates you give yours were probably Euro 5 Ford engined models. The 2.0 LITRE 4 cyl is JLRs own Ingenium series, is a generation on. No one knows how good/bad it is but they do drive well. The cross over for the private driver is about 12,500 miles per year, which in this tiny country is just above average. Buyers, never the most rational people (I know, I have a Citroen (Petrol)) are just waking up to this. 6 yo plus oilers are crashing in value. They are just too much trouble.

            Apart from that, everyone else has got it. The problem is exhaust particulates, notably PM 5 and 10, and nitric Oxide and Dioxide (NOx) which kills us quickly versus CO2 which takes longer. Now they have realised that the particulates store CO2 so that is now no advantage. The crisis has begun with provate cars. This is not Texas. cars, trucks, buses, motorbikes, mopeds have to be tested here for safety and emsssions annualy after three years. You just dont see that many rusty old crocks on the road any more in the UK. Holes in the doors or wings? Cracked light lenses? Fail. Diesel opacity test failure? Uninsurable. More than 200ppm unburned HC? Fail.

            From 2020 London is introducing the Ultra Low Emssion Zone or ULEZ, other British cities are likely to follow suit. Any pre Euro 6 (Jan 2016) diesel or pre Euro 4 (Jan 2005) petrol will be charged USD100 per day for enerting it. That is how bad the problem is. You are ok with an 11 year old petrol, but the oiler can’t be much over two years old. It’s USD800 for commericals. If you make it back to Heathrow after 2020 your jag will have spark plugs or a very big battery.

            JLR man is worried because he told his bosses in India that diesels were the way to go. Despite intensive and I do mean intensive lobying, its not working out. What do you do when you find out that the public knows cigarettes cause lung cancer? You lobby for free gaspers for the kiddies. They are just trying to make sure they get the full six year production life out their present engine range before diesels go for good.

            Hiring a couple, does not alter these facts. I don’t know much about tri-fives, Panther bodies or NASCAR.

          • 0 avatar
            Jagboi

            Adam: I live in Canada. I have relatives/friends in the UK (One of which works for Jaguar) and have been to the UK for a work a number of times, so I sort of consider myself “bilingual” in the sense that I can speak British and Canadian.

          • 0 avatar
            Jagboi

            Mike: Don’t forget I said imperial gallons, not US gallons. Subtract 20% to get US mpg figures. Since I’m not in the USA, I don’t use US measures.

            From what I’ve read on various Jag forums, the mileage I am getting is similar to what others are getting, but of course it depends on usage. Someone who goes 2 miles to get groceries will not do as well as a sales rep who lives on the motorway.

          • 0 avatar
            RobertRyan

            @Adam_
            Exhaust particulates are a major problem with EFI petrol engines. Mercedes is introducing a particle trap on it’s new Petrol engines.
            Diesels and Petrol engines all pump out dangerous substances( anyone hear of Carbon Monoxide?.)
            I agree with Speth, that Diesels are in many ways cleaner than current Petrol engines

  • avatar
    Tstag

    He has got a point it’s not the diesels in new cars that are the problem. It’s the ones in trucks, buses and beat up old cars and taxis.

  • avatar
    phreshone

    So really. What is the emissions of a modern diesel and how does this compare to cars emissions over the past 50 years?

    Is this still a real problem (LA in the 80’s – that was a real problem) or are the communists/evironmentalists just trying to shut down western society? Does EU/NA making further cuts in emissions mean spit while China and Asia spit out massive amounts of real polution?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      ” Does EU/NA making further cuts in emissions mean spit while China and Asia spit out massive amounts of real polution?”

      Maybe Trump will roll back those emission mandates for the next 4 or 8 years.

      We could be the cleanest country on the planet but we’ll still have to suffer with the suffocation of Asian pollution.

    • 0 avatar
      rpn453

      The air quality of Asian countries has little effect on North American air quality. That pollution is coming from within, and it’s all part of a conspiracy by the commies to confiscate your freedom. They’re coming for you and your family, and they won’t stop until every one of you is in a prison camp working as agricultural slave labor. Get out while you can. Sell everything you own to buy and equip a boat. They’ve probably already convinced you on the story of the earth being a sphere to make you feel like you’re trapped here. Don’t believe their lies. This world is actually flat. There is a free society with unlimited land if you head southwest beyond their control.

      I shouldn’t be telling you this, but I can’t play along with their games any longer. There is a limited window of opportunity for escape and it’s closing quickly. Once North American air quality reaches acceptable levels they’ll be moving on to the final solution phase of their master plan. I don’t have the means to acquire a serious sea-going vessel so I’m airing up my Explorer 100 and hitting the water by sunrise; assuming they haven’t already gotten to me by then.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      @phreshone
      Speth mentioned that modern Diesels were better for the environment than current Gas engines. DI engines are the culprit

  • avatar
    RobertRyan

    @Steph Willems
    ” Many will remember the college professor with the fearsomely slow inline-six Volvo 240 diesel or, if they grew up in America, the rattling Oldsmobiles diesels of 35 years ago.”
    Good Grief..that is your memories of Diesels? You sure live in the past. I remember a friend had a 454 Transam. You could smell the fuel coming out of the carburettors

    • 0 avatar
      carguy67

      “You could smell the fuel coming out of the carburettors”

      As it should be.

    • 0 avatar
      mason

      “Good Grief..that is your memories of Diesels? You sure live in the past”

      As is nearly every article and perception on here. It must get a better response than reporting on say, Cummins cutting edge EcoFit Single Module which is slated to replace traditional DPF’s at roughly 40% of the cost of current systems.
      But who wants to report on boring stuff like that?

      • 0 avatar
        RobertRyan

        @Mason
        Going by the comments I wonder if many here have hand cranks on their cars
        Maybe we could talk about the problems th at Petrol engines had then. As relevant as some of the anti diesel comments now

  • avatar
    brn

    The pendulum is swinging. Diesels got a pass in the automotive press and by enthusiasts. They were touted as being superior to gas in just about every way. Given way more credit than deserved.

    They were wrong, but that doesn’t make diesel bad. The pendulum is starting to swing the other way. Will it swing past center? We’ll see.

  • avatar
    AdamOfAus

    This banning crap sets a precedent and I pity the fools who vote for members and parties that introduce such laws.

  • avatar
    brandloyalty

    Why do the comments on a website called “the truth about cars” contain so much rubbish?

    Since when did diesels get twice the mileage of gasoline cars? Why do so few mention that diesel contains more energy than gas per unit of volume and the result that diesel mileage numbers are inflated relative to gas?

    Why does no one mention that diesel engines cost more to make and so offset possible fuel cost savings? While every time hybrids are mentioned the chattersphere erupts with comments that the price premium will never be recouped.

    Why do so few recognize that diesel popularity in Europe was an artificial situation resulting from government policies? Regulations that now appear to have been a mistake.

    And in case anyone thinks Jaguar is being a responsible corporate citizen:

    https://www.transportenvironment.org/press/75000-deaths-largely-diesel-fumes-legacy-europe’s-lax-vehicles-limits-and-testing

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/volkswagen/11899676/The-statistics-about-diesel-are-crystal-clear.-Its-deadly.html

    https://www.google.ca/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/environment/2016/nov/23/uk-has-second-highest-number-of-deaths-from-no2-pollution-in-europe

    http://fortune.com/2015/11/30/diesel-emissions-deaths-europe-ee/

    https://www.google.ca/amp/www.vox.com/platform/amp/2015/10/15/9541789/volkswagen-europe-diesel-pollution

  • avatar

    Make the diesel engine more environment friendly, that is the real demand. In present condition with so many SUVs, trucks, buses releasing harmful diesel fums, the uproar is justified mr.boss man.

    • 0 avatar
      brandloyalty

      Apparently mixing pi_s with the exhaust somehow makes it sort of ok. While adding another system whose cost adds to the higher cost of a diesel engine. But it’s ok if you give it a pristine name like “Bluetec”.

      It’s not just particulates that are the problem, it’s also nitrogen dioxide.

  • avatar
    Joss

    DEFers beware!

    You have to be careful with DEF fluid storage. Shake or invert before adding to the vehicle. With time the urea will settle to the bottom of the storage container. You will be skimming mostly water off the top. This will damage the diesel injector heads.

    We had several costly failures. We thought it was an issue with water in fuel from the gas bar. Turned out it was urea settling in our DEF tank.

  • avatar
    Tele Vision

    When I hired a car in Ireland several years ago the Diesel cars were the premium rentals. I got a Ford Mondeo for 10 days and fell in love with it. The Mondeo finally showed up here in Canada as the Ford Fusion but I don’t know if it could be had with a manual like my Irish hire car. Unfortunately the hood was bolted down on the Mondeo but I think it was a 2.0L 4-holer. What a great car that was.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    No matter how you slice it, diesels have little or nothing to do with the future of automobiles. What part of “oil burner” don’t you understand?? Until someone or technology fixes that part and the filthy junk that leaves the exhaust valves, it’s just not happening. But then they wouldn’t be “diesels” anymore.


Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Recent Comments

  • FreedMike: He was in, then sold all his dealerships sometime in the aughts…and now he’s back.
  • jalop1991: “Two movies come out this weekend. One has George Clooney in the lead; the other one Pauly Shore....
  • FreedMike: TONS of product placement on TV shows of the era…this could be a good QOTD. Jim Rockford’s...
  • 86er: Two-tone is so so good. http://www.curbsideclassic.com /wp-content/comment-image/5155 87.jpg
  • APaGttH: Well the 300 was special when it was released, almost a decade-and-a-half ago. This is where I get lectured...

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Staff

  • Contributors

  • Matthew Guy, Canada
  • Ronnie Schreiber, United States
  • Bozi Tatarevic, United States
  • Chris Tonn, United States
  • Corey Lewis, United States
  • Mark Baruth, United States
  • Moderators

  • Adam Tonge, United States
  • Corey Lewis, United States