By on January 3, 2017

2016 Chevrolet Cruze

Updated with statement from General Motors.

It’s not just Ford’s Mexican assembly plants that has President-elect steaming on Twitter.

Donald Trump’s latest online automotive salvo wasn’t directed at the Blue Oval, which was a favorite corporate punching bag during the election campaign. Rather, it was General Motors’ turn to be blasted.

“General Motors is sending Mexican made model of Chevy Cruze to U.S. car dealers-tax free across border,” Trump tweeted this morning. “Make in U.S.A. or pay big border tax!”

The president-elect has famously threatened Ford and other automakers who manufacture vehicles south of the border with a 35-percent import tax. While GM primarily builds the Cruze at its Lordstown, Ohio assembly plant, it bolsters that production with overflow from Mexico. Last year, the automaker said that domestic demand of the next-generation Cruze would be partly met with vehicles from its Ramos Arizpe, Mexico plant.

General Motors replied shortly after Trump’s tweet with an official statement, saying, “General Motors manufacturers the Chevrolet Cruze sedan in Lordstown, Ohio. All Chevrolet Cruze sedans sold in the U.S. are built in GM’s assembly plant in Lordstown, Ohio. GM builds the Chevrolet Cruze hatchback for global markets in Mexico, with a small number sold in the U.S.”

The lack of demand for passenger cars recently forced GM to curtail production at several U.S. plants to get ballooning inventories under control. In mid-December, GM had a 121-day supply of Cruze models. To stem the flow, Lordstown will shut down for a week this month.

[Image: General Motors]

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304 Comments on “Trump Isn’t Happy About the Chevrolet Cruze...”


  • avatar
    eggsalad

    Politics aside, someone should ask the President-elect what “make in USA” means.

    My ’13 Sonic was *assembled* in Lake Orion, MI out of components and assemblies sourced globally. Is that “make in USA”?

    Meanwhile, most sources say the most “make in USA” vehicle is the Toyota Tundra, although the manufacturer is Japanese. Is that “make in USA”?

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      It’s a good point, it is never as simple as 140 characters.

      But if you want substantive details from the guy who ran a presidential campaign on twitter, you’re going to have to wait until one of his staffers crafts it for him. The guy’s a mascot and a meme, not a thinker.

      • 0 avatar
        lon888

        How true how true. Without Kellyanne Conway around he doesn’t even know when to pee or poop. BTW this is the reason he hasn’t done the post election interview – he can’t think on feet. This is going to be 4 years of hell.

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      A very good point. Looking around at half-tons recently, it was eye-opening to learn that the top two most American options are the F150 and Toyota Tundra. Both made in the USA, both at 70% domestic parts content. GM’s Silverado is perhaps the worst offender: ALL 1500-series crew cabs are made in Mexico, domestic content a paltry 45% (many extended cab and reg cab 1500s made in Ft Wayne Indiana). I’ll be honest, it’s enough to dissuade me from ever considering a Chevy truck, even though I’m predisposed to liking the older square-body GMT400s, and newer GMT800s.

    • 0 avatar
      kefkafloyd

      There are actual laws and regulations that define “made in the USA” and people do get in trouble for violating them. Trump probably doesn’t know anything about them.

      • 0 avatar
        JimZ

        “Trump probably doesn’t know anything about them.”

        the list of things Trump doesn’t know about is probably quite long. it saddens me that the only auto exec to ever call him out on his BS is Ralph Gilles.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        I’d like to see just how these regulations work. Several times now, my brother has gotten burned on Subie timing kits mis-labeled as being made in Japan, but containing Chinese bearings and tensioners. First it happened with Gates kits, but sadly even Aisin now seems to be outsourcing, while keeping the actual box that the part is packaged in labeled “made in Japan.” Definitely not okay.

        • 0 avatar
          epc

          The US laws pertains only to the definition of “Made in USA.” There is no American law, as far as I know, that tells an US-based vendor how to define “Made in Japan” or “Made in Germany.”

    • 0 avatar
      notwhoithink

      As interesting a question as that might be, I suspect that providing an answer to that is beyond the capabilities of the president-elect. Let’s be honest here, at the end of the day he doesn’t care about where cars or air conditioners are manufactured. What he cares about is LOOKING LIKE he cares about the manufacturing workers who have been steadily displaced as the US economy evolves.

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Attention:

      Donald Trump is now POTUS far more due to the 8 years of POTUS of George W. Bush than the 8 years of POTUS of Barack Obama.

      Relax, breathe, and then sincerely contemplate that statement above, and American History since 2001, before responding reflexively with blood coming out of your ears, eyes and…. wherever.

      The Bush family, along with their neocon pals in general (Cheney, Libby, Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, et al.) and at the now irrelevant National Review (William Kristal, Jonah Goldberg, et al.) despise Trump WAY more than the Clintons (who REALLY despise Obama) ever will, because Trump called out the historically massive mistake of “Iraq Part Deux; Revenge of Jr. to Try & Win Approval of Papa Bush” (at ultimate cost of 4 to 6 trillion USD and hundreds of thousands of lives, if not a million, and permanently mis-shapen and worse (for U.S.) global political dynamics (with emerging Chinese-Russian-Iran-Turkey alliance emerging in MENA), as well as George H.W. Bush’s & Bill Clinton’s massive assist (both) in getting not only NAFTA implemented (at behest of corporations owning the CONgress), but also granting Most Favored Nation Trade Status upon China (again, both Papa Bush & Bill Clinton).

      Trump called George W. & Bill Clinton out for such things, and they and their respective families and sycophant followers didn’t take too kindly to such straight talk (say what one will about Trump, and one can say much, but he talked straight re those things).

      Ahhh, the ultimate and incredible irony of modern American Politics.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        The establishment despises Trump for a far simpler reason: he’s wrested control of the GOP from them. They weren’t crazy about the Tea Party either, but in the end, they needed the GOP’s money. Trump is far harder to control because he has money AND a public following.

        In any case, it’s clear to me Trump either a) has no concept of the bigger picture here, or b) has one but doesn’t want his followers to be privy to it.

        • 0 avatar
          DearS

          Bigly

        • 0 avatar
          Luke42

          I despise Trump, not because he overturned the establishment, but because he doesn’t appear to have the intellectual capacity to understand what he’s gotten himself into.

          I also despise him because he ran a campaign against large swaths population (liberals, hispanics, immigrants of all kinds), many of whom are my friends and neighbors in the college town where I live.

          I also despise Trump because every statement he makes about Russia is one where he acts like a man who doesn’t want to bite the hand that feeds him. We all should be concerned about Russian interference in our elections, instead of “getting on with our lives” and being befuddled by this computerized age.

          And that’s before we get to the conventional character flaws, like the p*$$y grabbing, appealing to racism, constant lying (he can’t even agree with himself), and being unable to take criticism gracefully.

          I identify as liberal these days, so you can imagine how his liberal-bashing went over. I have no idea how a president is supposed to represent the entire nation after running a campaign the way Trump did. But that’s his problem, not mine.

          There are a lot more reasons to despise Trump than just toppling the establishment. I have no love for establishment politicians, but they’re far better than Trump.

          I really hope the guy turns out to be a brilliant president, because that would be a better outcome for the USA. But my assessment of Trump and his cabinet is that positive outcomes are not likely.

          P.S. I prefer to stick to the cars on this site. But the dialog in this thread downplayed a number of very serious criticisms of Trump and his qualifications for president, and I couldn’t let that go unchallenged.

          • 0 avatar
            FOG

            Very interesting. I despise Hillary because she lacks any morality or integrity to present a real campaign; therefore, she spent all her ad money bashing Trump instead of telling us what she planned to do.

            Did you vote against Bill Clinton the second time he ran because everyone knew he was a sexual predator? I can never get liberals to answer this question.

            You also seem to base your opinion of Trump more on what the media translated as his statements than what he actually said. For a guy who isn’t very intellectual he has successfully connected with minorities, women, disenfranchised people everywhere.

            We should not despise a man for toppling a corrupt establishment; we should wait to see what he replaces it with. I am neither a fan or foe of President-elect Donald Trump. I am just glad we were saved from 4 to 8 years of Hillary’s Hell.

    • 0 avatar

      I just spent what I think is a ridiculous amount of money on the first tv set I’ve bought in 30 years (but adjusted for inflation it cost about 30% less than my dad’s Sawyer’s Rotomatic carousel slide projector that he bought in the late 1960s). The previous one was made by a Dutch company, Phillips, in a factory in Tennessee. My new television was made by a Korean company, LG (formerly Lucky Goldstar) in Mexico. The Blu Ray player for it was made by Sony, a Japanese firm, in Malaysia. There is one company that does some assembly of tvs in the U.S., a brand sold at Walmart, but their sets are dreck.

      We live in a global economy. While in a few limited cases (like defense technology) you’d want controls on exports and imports but in general tarrifs are not good things. The Smoot Hawley act wasn’t a good idea.

      I’m trying to bring an electric harmonica to market and I’m hoping it will be successful enough to need to lease some manufacturing space inside the Detroit city limits so I can say that it will be “Made in the Motor City” (or, if KISS doesn’t give me a hard time, “Made in Detroit, Rock City”).

      It will probably qualify as Made in USA because 70% or more of the value of the components and labor will be domestically sourced (Lace Sensor pickups are made in California and they don’t come cheap), but the entire project is dependent on the fact that a German company makes harmonicas with steel reeds. They’re the only ones who do so. Nobody even harmonicas of any sort in the United States (the Wm Kratt company used to but all they make now are pitch pipes – very good ones, btw). That they’re also the oldest harmonica company in the world and they make some of the best harps you can get won’t hurt me marketing wise either.

      Today, the 3D printer I’m planning on using to start limited production arrived. It was made in the Czech Republic (Jo Prusa’s original open source design, not one of the Chinese knock-offs). I’m pretty sure that the Americans working for UPS are happy that I bought it.

      I’m hoping to make some money with this idea. That will allow me to employ people and make charitable contributions. Import restrictions or tarrifs would only make that more difficult.

      • 0 avatar
        Guitar man

        95% of Cruzes are made in USA : Trump criticises GM.

        100% of Focuses are made in Mexico : Trump praises Ford.

        The guy is a grade A moron. I think the only reason the Russians supported him was because the US installed Yeltsin there and they wanted to return the favour.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    As much as I appreciate the make it in the USA fanaticism held by the soon to be CIC, is their really an abundance of idle automotive manufacturing facilities here (US) that are capable of modern auto assembly? I am sure there are a handful in Detroit still idle from the 70’s or 80’s even but I can’t fathom how they would be viable today.

    Seems like it would be very costly to build new facilities here, may be cheaper to pay the proposed tax. Side note, I always thought that new tax law had to go through congress and the senate..Me thinks the Trump will learn very quickly: CIC does not equal CEO.

    • 0 avatar
      Adam Tonge

      There are no closed Detroit area factories that could just reopen in days/weeks/months. The only way to expand production here is to have a new factory built (probably not happening), or expanding an existing facility (has been happening recently).

    • 0 avatar
      SpinnyD

      Looks like Ford just made a decision to invest in the US. They just cancelled the Mexican plant and moved the jobs up to Detroit.

      http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/03/news/economy/ford-700-jobs-trump/index.html

      • 0 avatar
        Adam Tonge

        The Focus will probably still go to Mexico. They’ll have to back fill the Fiesta leaving. But this is still very good news.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/01/03/ford-adding-electrified-f-150-mustang-transit-by-2020.html

        • 0 avatar
          SpinnyD

          The video in that link says they are moving the Focus to an existing plant in Mexico but will be investing $700 million in the Flint plant for electric/hybrid cars. 700 jobs.

          • 0 avatar
            Adam Tonge

            Yeah, it’s going to the Fiesta plant. Ford hadn’t said what plant it was going to until today. Now there is only one Mexican plat it could go to, since the Fusion takes up all the capacity of the other.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            no, the presser says Focus is going to Hermosillo, where Fusion/MKZ is built. Fiesta is currently at Cuautitlan.

          • 0 avatar
            Adam Tonge

            Oh [email protected] Does that mean that the Fusion is going to Cuautitlan?

    • 0 avatar
      alexndr333

      The cruel irony that might yet dawn on those supporting Trump’s “make-in-America” tweets is this: He may succeed in cajoling corporations to bring WORK back to the US, but that hardly translates automatically into jobs. It is a fact that – regardless who is President – the robotization of manufacturing is inevitable. The high-school educated folks who watched their grand-dads hold those factory job for thirty years will watch as their own employment goes to robots, built by robots. Just remember this: Trump hasn’t asked Ford and GM to bring jobs back to the America – only to build the cars here. Does he care how? Not on your Kirobo.

  • avatar

    The President-elect reinforces a campaign promise. Regardless of GM’s position of the moment, the company has circulated the intention of importing a lot of Cruzes from their Mexico plant through many news outlets since the middle of 2015.

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      a campaign promise which is unfulfillable, which should have been obvious to anyone with a couple of brain cells to rub together. the president can’t unilaterally end or run around NAFTA. And NAFTA was passed more or less with bipartisan support, so good luck getting Congress to repeal it.

      it’s been pretty clear for the past several years that Trump has been enamored with the *idea* of being president. Reality is going to slap him in the face hard.

      • 0 avatar

        People made similar predictions about his odds of winning the Presidency. I say that as no Trump supporter.

        Have you ever heard of the bully pulpit? He could, at the very least, call out everyone who stands against his attacks on trade deals, and remind their constituents whose side they are on.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          I can only imagine the public outcry if Obama had tried these stunts.

          Meanwhile, the Republican Congress comes back to work, and the one thing they ‘accomplish’ is to remove ethics oversight over Congressional criminal activity.

          The Swamp Strikes Back!

          • 0 avatar

            VoGo:

            “I can only imagine the public outcry if Obama had tried these stunts.”

            Obama raised the import tariff on Chinese steel to 265.79%.

            I didn’t hear anyone complaining about that.

          • 0 avatar
            Fred

            Chicken farmers did, because China retaliated with a tariff on chicken parts. Also Obama went thru the WTO procedures. Unfortunately Trump hasn’t done anything but tweet and get everyone upset. Sort of the Mariah Carey of politicians.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Whiskey,
            There’s a meaningful difference between raising a tariff (long established as a right of US government) and bullying companies publicly to locate factories to please your political base.

            Kennedy tried bullying private companies to reduce price inflation, and was roundly criticized for it.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Meanwhile, the Republican Congress comes back to work, and the one thing they ‘accomplish’ is to remove ethics oversight over Congressional criminal activity.

            The Swamp Strikes Back!”

            No, it’s DRAINED. Don’t you get it? Silly guy…

        • 0 avatar
          S2k Chris

          That’s just it. Trump doesn’t need to save EVERY job, he just needs to A) appear to be working on saving some and B) have some success every once in a while.

          I’m no fan of the man, but does anyone really think Hillary would be pushing this issue* at all? Or doing anything right now aside from basking in the glow of “making history” and “shattering glass ceilings”?

          *the broader issue of middle class middle-America jobs, not Chevy Cruzes

          • 0 avatar
            notwhoithink

            “That’s just it. Trump doesn’t need to save EVERY job, he just needs to A) appear to be working on saving some and B) have some success every once in a while.”

            But that’s the problem. There is no way to save those jobs. Anyone who is hoping that they’re going to be able to retire from a factory job paying $80k+ is ignoring reality, as are people that think that anyone can save those jobs. Those jobs were only considered such good jobs to have because the unions made them good, and that’s something that the majority of Republican politicians for the past 20+ years tried to undermine. There’s just no reason to bring these jobs back. Sure, you can threaten import taxes to the manufacturers, and they’ll either pass that on to consumers or they’ll cave and bring production back to the US, passing the higher costs of manufacturing on to consumers. Either way the consumer is going to pay more for the same product, assuming that they keep buying.

            So yeah, he might save a couple thousand jobs here and there but he’s sticking it to the rest of the people whose job’s he’s not saving in the process.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            S2k Chris, this is my takeaway as well. I think most people voting for him realized this as well. We’re not going to go back to some Golden Era manufacturing scenario, but on the campaign trail there was one guy that was railing against what had happened, and his opponent was all for a continuation of the current direction.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2017/01/03/ford-adding-electrified-f-150-mustang-transit-by-2020.html

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            “But that’s the problem. There is no way to save those jobs.”

            I think slashing the corporate tax rate would make some serious progress towards keeping jobs in or attracting jobs to America, and would cost American taxpayers and customers very little as the offset would be a larger individual tax base. Basically, by not actively trying to chase them away, Trump could save a fair number of jobs.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “I’m no fan of the man, but does anyone really think Hillary would be pushing this issue* at all?”

            In fact, she was. Her idea was to invest more in infrastructure improvements, etc, to attract and retain industries. Now, whether it’d have worked or not was debatable (and academic). But that was the idea, anyway.

            Unfortunately, this kind of approach doesn’t sell as well on Twitter.

          • 0 avatar
            KixStart

            “B) have some success every once in a while.”

            You mean, “B) plausibly – or even implausibly – claim credit for some.”

      • 0 avatar

        Thanks to Harry Reid invoking the “nuclear option” in the Senate, it isn’t hard to repeal anything. A simple majority is all that’s required in both houses of Congress.

        Unfulfillable? Not by a long shot.

      • 0 avatar

        JimZ won’t like hearing this…

        Tariffs fall under the purview of the State Department. The current State Department did not worry much about what anybody thought when they raised the tariff on Chinese steel to 265.79%.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      OK, Whiskey, if you want to defend the guy, I ask two questions:

      1) Why no ire pointed at the ***HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS*** of pickup trucks being made in Mexico?

      2) Why no ire pointed at the ***HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS*** of vehicles being imported from Canada?

      • 0 avatar

        Are you looking for ire?

        My guess is that if it’s a pickup being imported, it’s going to get hit under the Trump plan.

        Those companies are likely going to want to bring that production back to the US.

        Which is what Trump is saying about the Cruze. Apparently every hatchback Cruze is made in Mexico, not Ohio, GM morning statement or no.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “My guess is that if it’s a pickup being imported, it’s going to get hit under the Trump plan.”

          You *guess*? Great. I’d rather have a president who doesn’t guess. I’d rather have a president who *knows* that millions of pickups (and other vehicles) have come from Mexico too, and that millions of other cars sold here were imported from Canada. But the only two vehicles he’s apparently worried about are the Ford Focus and Chevy Cruze.

          Presumably the man can do something other than issue stupid tweets with his phone…like a Google search of “Where is the Dodge Ram pickup made?”

          If we’re *guessing*, then I *guess* that’s outside his skill set.

          And I *guess* you want a president you want to *guess* about.

          • 0 avatar
            S2k Chris

            I mean, he’s not even President yet. He’s showing an interest in moving production back within US borders. That IS his objective, you don’t have to guess about it, but yeah, I suppose you’re right, we have to “guess” what he’s going to do until he has the power to actually do it. Clearly he’s using these two examples as examples. Is it really unthinkable that he couldn’t name every single car to which he objects?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Not even President and has saved more jobs than the President.

            Cue the peanut gallery on the vibrant bartender and server recovery in 3, 2, 1…

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            “the vibrant bartender and server recovery”

            And the Apache Nation is duly grateful about all those servers.

            Thump: He’s Not Just About White People.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Is it really unthinkable that he couldn’t name every single car to which he objects?”

            Well, when you consider that a) the #2 and #3 selling cars in America (Chevy Silverado / Dodge Ram) are BOTH made in Mexico – a fact that it took me about 12.1 seconds to uncover – yes, it is unthinkable.

            But it’s not unthinkable when you consider how many of *his supporters* drive both these vehicles.

        • 0 avatar
          paxman356

          “Apparently every hatchback Cruze is made in Mexico, not Ohio, GM morning statement or no.”

          From the GM morning statement:

          “General Motors manufacturers the Chevrolet Cruze sedan in Lordstown, Ohio. All Chevrolet Cruze sedans sold in the U.S. are built in GM’s assembly plant in Lordstown, Ohio. GM builds the Chevrolet Cruze hatchback for global markets in Mexico, with a small number sold in the U.S.”

          And Harry Reid’s nuclear option was for court and other appointees. Not “to repeal anything”.

      • 0 avatar
        jjster6

        Um, what about the hundreds of thousands of vehicles being imported from the US into Canada. Trade is a 2 way street you know. Products and services get traded, not money. Money is just dirty bits of paper.

    • 0 avatar
      PandaBear

      “I think slashing the corporate tax rate would make some serious progress towards keeping jobs in or attracting jobs to America”

      Good luck. Now that even Chinese labor is too expensive to compete with Vietnam and Cambodia, you’ll have to move back to the Made in USA by using no labor at all.

      Tax rate will do squat about this.

  • avatar
    JimZ

    all I can say to some people for the next four years:

    “you got what you asked for. I hope it’s what you wanted.”

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      “you got what you asked for. I hope it’s what you wanted.”

      Unfortunately, if it isn’t what they wanted and doesn’t turn out as they hoped then the blame will always be put on the opposing party if it’s levied at all. It’s already started with Trump backing down on his wall rhetoric and appointing wall street and washington insiders to drain the swamp. Point this out and you’re just a sore loser.

      • 0 avatar
        sutherland555

        You’re probably right that irrationality will among the Republicans will win out over reasoning. Obviously the reality is that with Republicans holding the bag from President to Congress to the Senate, anything that does go badly will be their fault. It will be very hard to blame anything on the Democrats (but they will certainly try!)

        • 0 avatar
          yamahog

          With any luck, the republicans will take Obamacare as a warning – an unpopular piece of legislation can cost you everything.

          • 0 avatar
            sutherland555

            Obamacare is a flawed and unpopular solution to a flawed healthcare system that left tens of millions of American citizens without proper health coverage. I didn’t see the Republicans step up with a solution or realistic counter-proposal.

          • 0 avatar
            yamahog

            Why do Republicans need to step up with a solution or a realistic (as judged by suterhland555 on a car website) counter-proposal?

            They’ve just had an excellent election that was based on attacking the law. If anything, they need Obamacare as a whipping boy.

          • 0 avatar
            05lgt

            Obamacare was the Republican solution to healthcare reform. Dem’s mostly wanted single payer. Obama worked out a plan with the Republicans and they crafted an unworkable club to beat him with… and no one has a better idea. I should have voted Bernie.

          • 0 avatar
            JimZ

            “Why do Republicans need to step up with a solution or a realistic (as judged by suterhland555 on a car website) counter-proposal?”

            because the people who were able to get healthcare coverage because of it (and I know a few) are probably not going to be too happy when it gets yanked. and they’ll vote.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “Obamacare was the Republican solution to healthcare reform.”

            Not really. Not one single Republican voted for it.

            Obama’s problem was the centrist wing of his own party, which wasn’t going to go along with single-payer.

          • 0 avatar
            yamahog

            @05lgt

            Obamacare – the piece of legislation that passed without a single republican vote – was a republican piece of legislation?

            Don’t you think that’s a hilarious thing to say in a thread with the phrase:

            “Obviously the reality is that with Republicans holding the bag from President to Congress to the Senate, anything that does go badly will be their fault. It will be very hard to blame anything on the Democrats (but they will certainly try!)”

            ?

            Obamacare ruined the democratic party – Obama iced a public option to get neoliberals on board and the legislation violated right wing ideals (unwilling to work poor people arguably have better access than the working poor, really messed up the social contract) and the legislation violated the left wing ideals (rich people still get better care and health care is unafforable / not good for too many people) and I’d bet that the democrats don’t have a chance of an 08 style victory unless the republicans mess something up or democratic candidates find it in their heart to criticize Obama

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            @yamahog:

            Nah. The problem in 2016 was Hillary Clinton. She was damaged goods, and she ran a stupid campaign. Not campaigning at all in places like Wisconsin was a massive blunder.

            And her choice of Tim Kaine was incredibly foolish – she needed someone with far more appeal to the Bernie voters.

            If Republicans want a “2008 style” defeat, then their best move is simple: gut Obamacare, and watch all those working-class and working-poor folks who voted for Trump lose their collective s**t.

          • 0 avatar

            05lgt:

            “Obamacare was the Republican solution to healthcare reform.”

            Not one single Republican had any input whatsoever on the Obamacare legislation. They were shut out of meetings and the legislation passed without a single Republican vote on either side of Congress. It was rammed down every Republican’s throat with a smirk.

            Who can ever forget Nancy Pelosi standing at the House lectern declaring “We have to pass the bill so you can find out what is in it.”

            The arrogance of it all was astounding. It’s ridiculous that this party arrogance continues almost 7 years later, surfacing in such places as the TTAC forum.

            That arrogance is why Hillary lost the election. As Obama once said, “Elections have consequences” when explaining why Republicans should shut up and take it.

            I would not use that kind of divisive language but Obama got that right.

            Do import tariffs work? Reagan raised the import tariff on motorcycles in 1983 to 49.4%. If he hadn’t, Harley-Davidson likely wouldn’t exist today.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Whiskey,
            Please explain the difference between Romneycare and the ACA.

            We’ll wait here while you search desperately for a single meaningful difference (there aren’t any).

          • 0 avatar
            05lgt

            Was going to explain my statement, but Vogo beat me to it. If Obama negotiated a deal where China had to buy all registered republicans a new iPhone every year the republicans in congress would have unanimously opposed it. That was doctrine. They opposed thier own agenda because it was pushed by Obama.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            05lgt,
            I think you’re right. If James Baker had negotiated last year’s Iran nuclear deal, Republicans would have loved it.

          • 0 avatar

            Woo Hoo!

            thanks to Obamacare, our daughter’s eyeglasses are 100% covered and her eye exam only cost $30. We never had vision coverage until Obama fixed that.

            What a HUGE benefit!

            We only had to pay an additional $10,000 per year for our premiums, and our deductible only increased from $500 per year to $12,000 per year.

            So, all in all, the exam and the glasses only cost us about $20,000 out of pocket based on our pre-deductible expenses year to date.

    • 0 avatar
      mr.cranky

      Every time I’m confronted by a Trumpet demanding that I accept Trump, I just remind them that they spent 8 years trashing Obama, 2 years trashing Sanders and 30 years trashing the Clintons, all while calling people like me “libtards”.

      Nope. Sorry. Not my President. Ever.

      • 0 avatar
        GoHuskers

        Nor mine.

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        Then after January 20, who *will* be your President?

        Will you be self-identifying as non-American?

        • 0 avatar
          orenwolf

          I do. ;)

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          Yeah, I don’t get this either.

          I disliked Obama but claiming ‘he’s not my president’ is childish. If those who rightly criticized people who claimed Obama wasn’t their president now whale on about how Trump isn’t their president…. I don’t see how this helps.

          How does emulating fools move anything forward?

      • 0 avatar
        yamahog

        You’d be surprised by the number of people who voted Obama in 2012, voted for Sanders in the primary, and then voted for Trump in November.

        Do you object to the statement that Trump might appeal to people with whom you might agree?

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          People who are scared do things that make no sense.

          • 0 avatar
            mike978

            Vogo – are you going to answer the other points whiskey made? I agree Romney are and Obamacare were very similar. Now can we get back to this GS like it not passing g with any Republican support, or that Clinton was damaged goods or Obama saying elections have come sequences and “I won”.

      • 0 avatar
        tonycd

        Thank you, vogo.

        Yes, “Obamacare” is a Republican idea. It was developed by the right-leaning Heritage Foundation to address the problem that tens of millions of Americans had no health care, and thus sought it by costly visits to emergency rooms instead, a cost absorbed by everyone else who used and paid for the healthcare system. Its entire purpose was to solve this problem WITHOUT creating a single-payer system (what Sanders calls “Medicare For All”), which is anathema to the Republicans because it’s government-run.

        In spite of all this, when their own solution was presented to them by Obama, they did in fact refuse to lend a single vote to it, for one simple reason: Their vow made at the GOP Congressional summit on the night of January 20, 2009 that every last initiative of the Obama administration would be stubbornly resisted simply because it was his, and the decision (stated openly by GOP Senate leader Mitch McConnell) that the priority of stymying the Obama presidency would override all others, including the best interests of the nation and its citizens, for the next four years. I’m not making up any of this; you can look it up.

        As for the Affordable Care Act, it came to be called “Obamacare” on the recommendation of Republican language expert Frank Luntz, because “affordable care” was popular, but naming it after Obama would make the law as unpopular as he was. Luntz also recommended calling the law a “government takeover of health care” – the exact opposite of what it actually was. And the public bought it. When voters are surveyed about the actual provisions of the bill (e.g., parents being able to keep their kids on their insurance until 25, insurers banned from letting patients die because they’ve reached a lifetime spending limit, insurers unable to refuse coverage for “pre-existing conditions”), voters support them. When they’re asked whether they support “Obamacare,” they hate it.

        A footnote on this practice of making people hate something by attaching the word “government” to it: It will now be used again in order to privatize the nation’s public schools into for-profits financed by tax money. “Public schools” are very popular, so they’ll be renamed “government schools” to make us mistrust them. It’s already begun – listen for it in the months ahead.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        The problem is that under the Constitution he *is* my President.

        I don’t like it. One bit.

        But the only way out is to convince a few select voters in about six states, whom the Constitution endows with the de facto power to choose the president, to take a different path next time.

        And, in the long run, to change the Constitution (or the way the states apply it) so that all Americans, not just a few specific voters in a few specific states, get a meaningful say in who leads the executive branch.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Hang on there, Dal,
          Well, there is still a way Trump doesn’t become president. You second amendment people, you know what I’m talking about…

        • 0 avatar
          mike978

          With any system, other than proportional representation nationwide, you will ways have a “select” group of voters deciding things. This happens in marginal constituencies in the UK or Canada. It can happen with the house of Representatives if there are any in gerrymandered districts left.
          Both parties have over time benefited from the electotal college vs the national popular vote.

          • 0 avatar
            dal20402

            That is appropriate for selecting members of a legislature. If we are going to select the executive by direct vote, I want it to be a straight popular vote. If we can’t have that, I’d rather the legislature pick the executive (i.e., parliamentary system) than this bastard hybrid we have now where voter power comes from an effectively arbitrary combination of state size and state political leanings.

    • 0 avatar
      DevilsRotary86

      I didn’t vote for him, I voted for Mrs. Clinton. Still getting it whether I like it or not.

      His policies if actually implemented, would put my home state of Texas up the proverbial creek without a paddle. And 52% of my fellow voting don’t see it.

      A recent Dallas Morning news article summed it up very well. Trade with Mexico is worth hundreds of billions of dollars. Half of that is spent in Texas, making us the largest beneficiary of NAFTA. 1 in 5 jobs in Texas relies on international trade in some way or the other. My job is directly reliant on international trade. I for one am somewhat worried for my future.

      My hope now is that Mr. Trump turns out to be the entirely ineffectual president that I hope him to be.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        …and this, plus changing demographics, explains why Romney took Texas by 16 points in 2012, but Trump only won by nine.

        • 0 avatar
          DevilsRotary86

          I liked Mitt Romney. I honestly don’t remember if I voted for Mr. Romney or President Obama; both were good candidates.

          Of course the 2012 was almost comical. The Republican party picked the exact candidate they should have; a liberal state centrist Republican who could in theory talk to both sides. They then handed him a set of tea party talking points and told him to “sell, sell, sell”.

    • 0 avatar
      PandaBear

      As someone who’s not white, not black, not gay, non Trump voter, non Hilary voter, non redneck, non liberals, and not latino. I’d give my two cents:

      Obama was not popular because he was not white, has a muslim sounding name.

      Democrat was not popular during Obama’s time because it passed gay marriages, legalize pot, didn’t do something to the illegal alien in the US that “took their jobs and all sorts of other things”

      They don’t like GOP much either, so they were trying to choose between Hilary and Bernie and Trump. Hilary won over Bernie so the Bernie supporters (who wanted jobs back) went to Trump.

      They know Trump is a liar, but they know they hate Hilary even more because her party didn’t do anything to stop NAFTA and TPP.

      Just look at the overlap between Bernie support and Trump in Michigan and Wisconsin.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    I’m so confused. How does this 35% import tax work in the context of his plan to reduce corporate taxes?

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      I am assuming it would work if a company choose to import then it would know the consequences.
      You can be for lower US corporation tax and for this import tax. They are not mutually exclusive.

    • 0 avatar
      geozinger

      I would imagine it would work just like the gas guzzler fines. The Corporation will not pay it, you do. This works particularly well on large, expensive cars. Or high performace cars.

      On a car like the Cruze Hatchback, since the demand is elastic but the pricing is not, I would imagine that any additional taxes would be paid for by spreading the cost throughout the whole line up.

      Certainly, Chevy could not afford to price a Cruze 35% higher than the rest of the model line. This would end up making all cars in the Chevy line up more expensive, since they all would have to help pay for a chunk of the tax.

      I would imagine similar scenarios for other car companies, with the cost being covered in this way.

    • 0 avatar
      dougjp

      The tax would be funneled into real estate, and be trumped up as a win for job creation ;) See? It all makes sense…..

  • avatar
    seth1065

    JimZ,
    Correction , the people wanted Hillary by about 2.8 million votes over Trump but the way the system is set up ( EC) wanted Trump, I am fine with the system being the way it is, but I hope Trump remembers he was out voted, I know he will not but one can hope. As for Trump made in the USA start with your own companies
    with made in the US building products …

    • 0 avatar
      FOG

      “the people wanted Hillary by about 2.8 million votes…”

      Clearly, we were saved from Hillary by the people in the middle of the country. Those 2.8 million votes all came from non manufacturing areas of the country with extreme selfish interests that would run this country into the ground. The electoral college is showing us how wise our forefathers were.

      • 0 avatar
        Fred

        I suspect that half the voters were voting against the other candidate. Majority or not, it wasn’t much of a choice.

      • 0 avatar
        Chan

        2.8 million votes from educated, urban “elite douchebag” areas count as much as 2.8 million rural, blue-collar “flyover state” votes.

        The argument that “Hillary only won a popular vote because of California” ignores the fact that California is as American as Texas. Those 2.8 million or 4 million or whatever voters could have been spread over Seattle metro, NY metro, Chicago metro, Miami metro and Dallas metro. It doesn’t matter. Urban areas are the centres of economic power and liberal ideals–it’s not exclusive to California. HRC won the popular vote, period, and lost the election, period.

        I am no fan of either Hillary or Trump, but I am tired of people claiming the moral high ground by belittling the most productive state of the country and the world’s 6th-largest economy on its own.

        If “education” could be measured, an educated and informed voter should have more voting power than an uninformed one in the respective relevant elections. But since that is not possible, the next best thing is every citizen gets an equal vote.

        • 0 avatar
          JimZ

          “I am no fan of either Hillary or Trump, but I am tired of people claiming the moral high ground by belittling the most productive state of the country and the world’s 6th-largest economy on its own.”

          similarly, I’m tired of some residents of said state strutting around like it’s their own personal accomplishment.

      • 0 avatar
        PandaBear

        “Those 2.8 million votes all came from non manufacturing areas of the country with extreme selfish interests that would run this country into the ground.”

        Pray tell, how is the manufacturing area not selfish trying to force higher cost on the rest of the nation by forcing Made in USA down everyone else’s throat?

        Look, every nation that we once outsourced to has now been just as expensive as the US if not more to manufacture: Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, and very soon China (losing to Mexico, Vietnam, and Cambodia). These jobs are no longer in DEVELOPED NATIONS.

        Spin it anyway you want, the business reality is not agreeing with you.

      • 0 avatar
        dal20402

        So only Americans in the middle of the country are “real Americans?”

        Classy.

    • 0 avatar

      ” the people wanted Hillary by about 2.8 million votes over Trump”

      Who are these “people?”

      Hillary won California by about 4 million votes. If you toss out California (which suits me fine, maybe their secession movement will win) Trump won the popular vote.

      • 0 avatar
        KixStart

        WhiskeyRiver asks, “Who are these “people?””

        They’re called “citizens.” Also known as “citizens meaningfully deprived of an equal vote for the 2nd time this century.”

        If this had gone the other way, Secretary Clinton winning in the Electoral College and His Peevishness winning the popular vote, the Trumpsters would be freaking out. And they’d have a point.

        set1065: “I hope Trump remembers he was out voted, I know he will not but one can hope.”

        Well, there, you know the score.

        I merely hope he remembers that he’s the President of the United States and not a servant of Putin. Faint hope, that, too.

        • 0 avatar
          mike978

          If the reverse happened as you suggest then the Democrats would say we won following the rules. Just as the GOP says now. Both sides can be guilty of hypocrisy.

      • 0 avatar
        Chan

        4 million Californians is 4 million Americans. CA does not live in a bubble–it exists because of the United States and the US carries most of its economic weight because of CA. Nobody pretends that the world’s 6th-largest economy does not matter.

        CA is expensive because people *want to live and work there*. Simple as that.

  • avatar
    Adam Tonge

    “bolsters that production with overflow from Mexico.”

    Lol. Just like Ford is moving Focus production to Mexico with “no US jobs lost”.

  • avatar
    Fred

    So why does he complain about Mexico and not Canada?

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      I assume because more of these moves like the Focus and Cruze production are going to Mexico and not Canada.
      It is Mexico which is the cheaper wage country, not Canada.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Fred, take a look at the picture of the average Canadian and the average Mexican, and there’s your answer.

      • 0 avatar
        orenwolf

        Speaking as an Aboriginal, I think the answer to the look of “The average Canadian” might surprise you. :)

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        “Fred, take a look at the picture of the average Canadian and the average Mexican, and there’s your answer.”

        I’d argue more than anything else that’s reason all the Hollywood celebs were threatening to flee up North rather than down to Mexico. Funny how that works.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “I’d argue more than anything else that’s reason all the Hollywood celebs were threatening to flee up North rather than down to Mexico. Funny how that works.”

          Well, yeah, Canada’s a nice, stable country. Mexico’s pretty much a mess.

    • 0 avatar
      05lgt

      Because it’s easier to “other-ise” people with different melanin levels.

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        05lgt, see my comment above. “Tolerant” liberal actors are every bit as guilty.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          What, because they don’t want to move to Mexico?

          Funny, they don’t want to move to “white” countries like Ukraine or Russia either. If I had to move somewhere else, I’d take Canada too. Something about not wanting to move to a country that’s a total basket case…

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            “total basket case”

            Woah there cool it with that cultural relativist racism man.

            They all love to visit migrant camps in France and tour slums in Haiti and other third world nations to show their awareness and support. Why not move there to REALLY up the ante?

          • 0 avatar
            KixStart

            “If I had to move somewhere else, I’d take Canada too. Something about not wanting to move to a country that’s a total basket case…”

            Not to mention, Canadians, mostly, speak English. Mexico, not so much.

  • avatar
    GoHuskers

    Just to jump in on vehicle content, my ’15 Accord EX-L V6 window sticker shows US/Canadian parts – 70%, Japan – 15%. Nothing is mentioned about the other 15%.

    The vehicle was assembled in Marysville, OH.
    The engine and transmission are USA built.

  • avatar
    Rob

    The most frustrating aspect with regard to the attacks on the auto industry is just how unfounded they actually are.

    And this isn’t about partisan politics, the left is just as culpable in this nonsense. The only thing the right has is a BETTER lie.

    The left says we will train a 55 y/o rust belter in a new career, and the right says we will save their job despite the fact they demand an unreasonable wage (comparatively speaking) to a Mexican worker south of the border whole both sides of working class America demand to shop at Walmart and get their imported goods for pennies on the dollar.

    How about this, Trump tell people how stupid they are (not something outside of his toolkit) and then explain to them as long as Americans demand big cars and cheap gas, they will never build the Cruz because it’s not financially responsible.

    Not a Trump fan in the slightest, but if America wants a business man running the show, then they need to hear business appropriate responses to their insane demands and expectations.

    • 0 avatar
      King of Eldorado

      I’m no fan of Trump either, and you make some good points. I further observe that both he and Ivanka use the sound-business-practice explanation on the rare occasions they discuss why their various product lines (clothing,…) tend to be made outside the U.S. I would never buy their products, but I acknowledge that it makes good economic sense to manufacture many of them elsewhere.

      So I have 2 questions for Trump: Why then does it not also make sense for GM to import Cruze hatchbacks from Mexico, especially since that factory is already going to make them for export to other countries? Second, how is this not “picking winners,” a practice Republicans decry when the subject is bailouts vs. letting companies go bankrupt?

    • 0 avatar
      KixStart

      “The left says we will train a 55 y/o rust belter in a new career,”

      Is there some reason we can’t do that? Are these people unwilling to learn or something?

      That “55 y/o rust belter” is NOT getting his old job back. Period. Nor is that coal miner. Exclamation point.

      Now, it may be unreasonable to meet with a lot of success in that but it’s probably equally or even more important to get the 18-30 year old rust belters trained up in things with a future. That would be a side effect of attempting to train the 55’er and would likely meet with much more success. The improved economy would then help that 55’er to find *some* sort of work.

      Nor is this particularly new… About 25 years ago, a colleague was predicting hard times for the people of his ancestral portion of the rust belt because they couldn’t figure out that their HS diploma weren’t enough credentials (if they bothered to get that) and that the auto factory wasn’t going to give them the same kind of living that it gave their fathers and grandfathers.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        “Are these people unwilling to learn or something?”

        They’re eager as hell to learn but they’re also crippled by kids (grandkids too, in Thumpland), geriatric parents, crumbling homes and neighborhoods and, after five decades of McDonaldland nutrition, just into or on the cusp of the typical metabolic syndrome almost universal in poorly educated, sleep-deprived, glucose and cholesterol saturated Muricans.

        There are a crushing number of demands upon their time, energy and location that aren’t conducive to retraining/reemployment should any employer be willing to take on the load of all their baggage.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          Sad but often true. Explains why they would be desperate enough to put their trust in Orangina.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Organina? Cute, so we go from Orangutan to Oragnina?

            Progress!

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            It’s short for “Orange puppet of Russia, obsessed with walls and China”

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Definitely have the “ora” and “ina” down pat , seem to be missing the “gn” though with “Russia”. Maybe “Oraruina”?

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            OK, how about:

            “Orange puppet of Russia, obsessed with walls and China, using celebrity to grab [email protected]

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            That’s kinda long to remember. Ernie is the only orange puppet I can commit to memory.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Hmmm. You have a point there. Maybe just keep the first word and the last?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Back to Oraina then.

            Serious though its one of two things:

            1. The Golitsyn Thesis is correct and we are so, so screwed.

            2. Kissinger/Brzezinski et al have decided to pivot toward Russia after losing proxy wars with them for the past three years.

        • 0 avatar
          KixStart

          “There are a crushing number of demands upon their time,”

          True. How do we lessen those other burdens? On the agenda: gut Social Security and Medicare so that the geriatric parents you mentioned can be a bigger problem.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            “There are a crushing number of demands upon their time”

            Did I say that? Poop.

            I *should* have said “There IS a crushing number of demands…”

          • 0 avatar
            KixStart

            “Did I say that? Poop.”

            I believe “are” was correct. It seems to me that the phrase “crushing demands” is the subject.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            Number is subject, crushing demands is modifying phrase describing number of what. Is no?

            Wait! You’re right! I’m wrrro… incorrect!

            I think… don’t know any more.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        What new career is a 55+ person in a dying region with zero experience in the field realistically going to be able to get? Success stories in that scenario are very rare.

        I don’t think they are “unwilling” to learn but they know they have all the chance of a wounded zebra walking past a group of hungry lions. Subsidized work is really all they’ve got.

  • avatar
    orenwolf

    I wonder how this will work with Canadian Auto manufacturing as well.

    One likely change is probably going to be that whatever non-US manufacturing is still being done in the US (i.e., Us-made cars destined for export) will probably shift entirely to non-US factories so that capacity can be freed up to allow for the domestic production of domestically-bound cars. Thing is, IIRC, that’s actually not much production at all (i..e, most export vehicles don’t start out in the US anyway).

    I wonder if this will lead, over time, to a further divergence in US vs world versions of vehicles. I believe the focus is an example of a vehicle that was much better received in its international version at one point, correct?

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “I wonder how this will work with Canadian Auto manufacturing as well.”

      You’re missing the point.

      Being anti-Canadian-imports doesn’t get the know-nothing morons’ nipples hard. Being anti-Mexican does.

      He’s playing to his base…a substantial percentage of which is driving around in Mexican-made pickup trucks.

  • avatar
    ant

    I’d think it’s worth mentioning that if Mexican people had good paying jobs, they wouldn’t risk coming to the US without permission to work.

    Also, I like that the hatchback Cruze is being made available here in the US, even if it’s not assembled here.

    Why doesn’t Mexico have their own cars that they’ve designed and build with Mexican pride. I’d be willing to bet that they would make very durable stuff.

    • 0 avatar
      yamahog

      I’d think it’s worth mentioning that if more Americans had good paying jobs, they’d buy into the washington consensus.

    • 0 avatar
      KixStart

      “I’d think it’s worth mentioning that if Mexican people had good paying jobs,”

      In fact, this is exactly how things have worked out. NAFTA has been good for the US and great for Mexico. Mexico still has many problems but *Mexican* illegal immigration has essentially ended. The illegals now come from the real basket cases further South.

      The Obama administration has been working with the Mexicans to tight up border security, not at the US end but at Mexico’s Southern borders. I’m sure His Peevishness will be able to move that initiative forward.

  • avatar
    stevelovescars

    Darn, I guess that Chinese-made Trump-branded tie I wanted to buy will now have to cost 35% more or will he be moving production to a supplier in the U.S. as well?

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Know what’s fascinating here? He’s keying on Cruzes being made in Mexico…and ignoring ***EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE TENS OF THOUSANDS OF SILVERADOS*** that are made there.

    Now, gee, could that be because…hold on now, there’s a radical thought coming…Republicans probably account for a disproportionate number of pickup truck sales and don’t want to put their money where their (newfound protectionist) mouth is? I mean, seriously…how many ***MADE-IN-MEXICO*** Rams, Silverados and Sierras are still tooling around with Trump stickers on them?

    And, of course…no whining whatsoever about the variety of “American” cars being made in Canada. Now, why would this be? Not too difficult to figure that one out either.

    Unbelievably stupid, shallow and transparent.

    • 0 avatar
      TMA1

      I think you’re giving him too much credit. He probably doesn’t see many pickup trucks in NYC. Out of sight, out of mind. As for Cruze buyers, I’m willing to bet most of the takers are in the red-voting, buy-American flyover states anyway.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        “I think you’re giving him too much credit.”

        Yea, I agree. I doubt Trump even knows the Silverado is built in Mexico. I doubt most Silverado *buyers* know their truck was made in Mexico.

        As soon as he learns that places like Saltillo and Silao exist he’ll throw out some tweets.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “As soon as he learns that places like Saltillo and Silao exist he’ll throw out some tweets.”

          Not in a million years, ajla…not with millions of his supporters tooling around in Mexican-built pickups. I mean, seriously…what percentage of Ram pickup owners voted for Trump? Would I be out of line to go with “overwhelming majority”? I don’t think so.

          I’m sure they don’t want to be reminded that they played their part in getting jobs ripped from our fair shores.

          And I’m absolutely certain that none of them want to pay 35% more for their next pickup, either.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            I highly doubt the vast majority of pickup buyers know their trucks were built in Mexico in the first place. I’m guessing most *believe* their vehicles were built in the US. No one looks at that part of the window sticker and dealers certainly don’t point it out.

            Seriously, some time today go ask a Ram owner where their truck was built.

            If Trump shines a light on Mexican truck manufacturing I expect many people will feel duped by the auto makers rather than personally culpable for supporting outsourcing.

            But we’ll have to see if he singles out a truck or truck plant in the future.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “If Trump shines a light on Mexican truck manufacturing I expect many people will feel duped by the auto makers rather than personally culpable for supporting outsourcing.”

            Duped? Nah, it’s right on the window sticker. Plain as day. They have no excuse for not knowing where their trucks are coming from, so a) Trump confronts them with their own stupidity, or b) he confronts them with their own hypocrisy. Take your pick. And then he tells them that the next truck they buy will cost 35% more, because, #MakeAmericaGreatAgain.

            No way Twitter Duce does any of that. Nope.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “They know where their trucks are coming from”

            Obviously I disagree people have that awareness. Cylinder count, displacement, number of gears, drive wheels, etc. is also on the window sticker and plenty of buyers don’t know that information.

            But we’ll see what happens.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Well, then, he confronts them with their own stupidity. Then he does something that will make their next truck cost a lot more.

            Like you say, we’ll see how that works. My money’s on “not so well.”

    • 0 avatar
      JimZ

      Bread and circuses, Mike.

      Bread and circuses.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    GM response: Mostly the hatch, don’t worry Donald – nobody buys the hatch.

  • avatar
    tylanner

    I’m sick of trying (and listen to other people try) to qualify his statements with even the tiniest bit of logic and evidence that he understands the simplest facts around the topic he is discussing.

    The most important quality of a responsible politician is thoughtfulness. Donald Trumps twitter is completely devoid of careful thought. Now that our chance to hold him accountable is long gone we have no choice but to ignore him, and I hope that is what TTAC resolves to do.

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      “we have no choice but to ignore him, and I hope that is what TTAC resolves to do.”

      See how many comments this article ultimately garners; let that be your answer.

    • 0 avatar
      jkross22

      “The most important quality of a responsible politician is thoughtfulness.”

      If they have no interest in getting re-elected, this is true.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        Maybe, maybe not. You can accuse Obama of a lot of things, but thoughtlessness is NOT one of them. And I’d say this has served him well politically. I agree with him – if he were not Constitutionally limited, he could have been re-elected. If nothing else, he’d have been smart enough to NOT skip campaigning in the Rust Belt.

        He has an ability to connect with people that Clinton just didn’t have.

        • 0 avatar

          Oh, Obama is thoughtful alright. He was very thoughtful when told Gina Rodriguez in a televised interviews that illegal aliens could vote and nothing bad would happen to them.

          Might explain the 4 million votes Hillary won by in California?

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            http://www.snopes.com/obama-encouraged-illegal-aliens-to-vote/

            And no evidence of widespread voter fraud was found in this election.

            But, wow, it’s good to know you can spread this garbage without fear of suppression, isn’t it?

          • 0 avatar
            jhefner

            You do not support your cause by quoting snopes anymore, just sayin. They are just two guys who bring their own personal bias into their conclusions.

          • 0 avatar
            KixStart

            “[Snopes] are just two guys who”

            look up and check on the stuff that you should have looked up yourself.

        • 0 avatar
          jkross22

          I wasn’t referring to Obama specifically, but since you reference him, think about the timing of the implementation of ACA. It was Obama’s 2nd term. No need to worry about re-election. He did what most politicians do who have termed out do – lie to get what they want done and see where the chips fall. No individual political consequences will be owed. The party is a different story as we’ve seen.

  • avatar
    Bill Wade

    What a shame. TTAC used to be a car site all about cars. It’s degenerating to just another swamp of political BS.

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      Couldn’t get away from politics in the 1850s, either. ‘Course lacking an internet the disputants had to be more or less literate.

    • 0 avatar
      FOG

      Be patient, Bill but continue to point this out. Far too many people politicize everything. the guys you see in this string are the regular whiners. Just learn who they are and pass over their drivel to the good stuff. I occasionally get hooked into replying to them, but I am in recovery.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      Licensing of vehicles, licensing of drivers, road taxes, driving laws, emission controls, safety standards, CAFE, insurance, safety checks, bail-outs, trade agreements, labour laws, etc.

      Who in their right mind does not realize that the auto manufacturing sector is highly politicized and therefore fair game for political comment and discussion?

      • 0 avatar
        sutherland555

        Besides how Arthur just laid out how and why the car industry is politicized, let’s not forget that the Trump tweet was highly politicized in and of itself. So technically he started it.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      True, Bill, but look at the debate taking place, and compare it with what you’d see on other sites.

      There’s a LOT more brainpower on this thread.

  • avatar
    Sceptic

    Laughing out loud at all the liberal demos crying in the comments.
    Trump is not in the house yet. Just wait! Don’t forget to pack your bags!

    • 0 avatar
      Ol Shel

      It’s kinda sad that today’s conservatives seem to derive all their joy from the anguish of others.

      It would be a lot healthier if they got pleasure from productive work that helps others, and wanting to minimize others’ pain.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      Yep, one of those “conservatives” who thinks conservatism means shouting “liberal” a million times a day.

      Well, at least Sean Hannity makes a living off you. I suppose that’s something.

      • 0 avatar
        PrincipalDan

        “To understand the workings of American politics, you have to understand this fundamental law: Conservatives think liberals are stupid. Liberals think conservatives are evil.”
        ― Charles Krauthammer

        • 0 avatar
          Middle-Aged Miata Man

          Krauthammer wrote that in 2002. In today’s sociopolitical climate, liberals think conservatives are stupid, and conservatives think liberals are vermin.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Krauthammer has never been more marginalized or irrelevant as he is now, so he should jump off a high altitude cliff with pals Jonah Goldberg, William Kristol, Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, Doug Feith, John Sununu, etc.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I don’t know who wrote this, but someone commented that the main difference between conservatism and liberalism is that the former is focused on liberty and the latter with justice.

            Neither principle exists in a vacuum.

            And hating on people over simple political disagreements serves neither goal. If you think of the American political spectrum as a ruler, with North Korea at the zero-inch mark and right wing fascism at 12 inches, the difference between liberalism and conservatism falls somewhere between inches 5 and 7. It’s a difference of opinion, not some kind of death struggle between two hateful ideologies.

            Something to keep in mind…

            …and I’d take anything Charles Krauthammer and his “we’ll be welcomed as liberators” ilk says with a very large grain of salt.

          • 0 avatar
            Middle-Aged Miata Man

            “It’s a difference of opinion, not some kind of death struggle between two hateful ideologies.”

            I don’t disagree with anything you said, FreedMike, but consider the folks on both sides of the ideological divide that have long ago abandoned any pretense of civility or discourse.

            Lots of proudly, ignorantly “right”-eous folks are arming up in preparation for nothing less than a second civil war – whether they’ll admit it or not – in response to recent actions by the more feral elements on the “left,” and those perceived to have emboldened them.

            Violence is seldom instigated by the moderate majority. The next four years are gonna be interesting, no question.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            And you might want to ask yourself, Miata man…

            …whose interests does that eternal food fight serve?

            It serves the people at the top, who want nothing more than the status quo. If they can keep people this agitated over a simple difference of political opinion, then they can keep real change from coming.

            And anyone who thinks Trump represents that change is on acid. Four years from now, instead of conservatives asking how that “hopey changey” thing went, it’ll be liberals asking how that “hashtag make America great” thing went.

            And on and on.

            People do have the power to change things in this country. They’re just too apathetic to take it, and the apathy is bought and paid for.

          • 0 avatar
            Middle-Aged Miata Man

            Don’t need to “ask myself” anything, because I’ve known that for years (decades…)

            That said, in today’s climate I wonder if “change” isn’t more likely to come through bullets rather than ballots. I wish that weren’t the case, and both sides will share equal blame if that day comes to our nation.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            My money’s on no change coming at all, either with ballots or bullets.

          • 0 avatar
            Middle-Aged Miata Man

            You’re probably right… but I’m not optimistic that some won’t resort to violence in the attempt, especially those on the left. I was relieved that the Electoral College vote passed without incident; Inauguration Day will be the next “test.”

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      Laughing out loud at the conservatives who gleefully await the arrival of the paramour of the sitting Russian autocrat. Wall Street Execs and Washington insiders in the cabinet. Apologetics and praise for an ex-KGB dictator. Refusal to divest from business interests, ensuring onflicts of interest spreading to the edge of the Milky Way.

      Good thing you didn’t elect some corrupt establishment figure or we’d really be in trouble.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      @sceptic: Are you then in favour of denying them their right to freedom of expression?

      • 0 avatar

        Exactly what they’re trying to do Arthur. If you don’t think like them you have to be suppressed. It’s sad.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          Poor whiskey is so suppressed he can go on the Internet and complain about his suppression 24/7…and vote for Trump.

          Therefore, the Left Wing Plot To Silence Him is clearly a success.

          Oh, wait, I think I hear the black UN helicopter hovering over your house…better hide now.

          • 0 avatar

            Just because you are the loudest mouth in the room does not mean you are correct. About anything.

            +1000 on being that loud guy though.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            Well, look out your front door. Now, if you see a bunch of Birkenstock-wearing paramilitary types coming to suppress you, then I’ll concede you were correct in your “suppression” claim.

            Otherwise, I guess I was right to be loud and sarcastic.

            We shall see.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            Well, he won’t *see* them. Those people are pros.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            …and we’re shape shifters.

            Tricky folks, us liberal suppressors.

  • avatar
    Ol Shel

    If you aren’t already aware, his strategy is to make it look like he’s fighting for his voting base while he makes changes that benefit the economic elite. He loves the poorly educated, and he knows how to manipulate them.

    I want to hear what he’s going to do about companies that have already moved jobs overseas.I also want to hear what he’s going to do about jobs lost to automation, past, present, and future.

    (the answer is ‘nothing’.)

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      Canada is not an issue because their wages, environmental standards etc are at or above US levels. I recall when some Democrats voted against CAFTA precisely because labor and environmental laws in those countries were not at US levels. Second large scale illegal immigration is not occurring on the northern border.

      • 0 avatar
        FreedMike

        I see…so, American jobs “fleeing” the country isn’t an issue when there’s more economic parity with the country they’re fleeing to? That doesn’t make much sense.

        Come now, mike, we all know the *real* reason why Canada isn’t demonized and Mexico is, despite *both* being in NAFTA.

        • 0 avatar
          mike978

          You misinterpret US jobs are not fleeing in huge numbers to a country with a similar cost of doing business (ie Canada). It will, logically,move to a cheaper place to do business – Mexico, Vietnam etc. That is free market economics. Can you show me data where more US jobs are going to Canada than Mexico?

          Also in relation to your post and some others above re: immigration and the focus on Mexico. This article from Reuters today :
          fiscal year 2015, the latest year for which data is available, border patrol agents apprehended 2,626 illegal migrants on the U.S.-Canada border compared to 331,333 apprehended on the U.S.-Mexico border

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            I see. So the problem is that American jobs were lost to a country which also has a history of citizens coming here illegally, versus one that doesn’t.

            The difference is ultimately irrelevant. A lost U.S. job is a lost U.S. job, and in the end, the job’s lost whether illegal immigrants are coming here from Mexico or not.

            And American jobs have been lost to Canada for a LONG time now. We’re not just talking about GM, Ford and Chrysler – Japanese companies who would otherwise have plants here have located in Canada, and those plants pump hundreds of thousands of huge-selling cars into our country every year, like the Honda Civic and Toyota RAV4, both of which are built in Canada.

            Given the “America first” nonsense Trump espouses, those jobs should be here, don’t you think?

            And the reason why this isn’t an issue but vehicles from Mexico is…illegal immigration from Mexico?

            No, I don’t think so.

            It’s selective anger, aimed at a segment of our population that votes single-issue on immigration. And you’re buying it, which makes no sense to me.

            Ironically, what percent of these voters drive Chevy Silverados or Dodge Rams – both built in Mexico? I’d go with a pretty large percentage, wouldn’t you?

            Any wonder why Trump isn’t focusing on these vehicles being built in Mexico, and threatening to make them 35% more expensive? None whatsoever.

          • 0 avatar
            mike978

            Freed – US companies have been in Canada well before NAFTA. The big change that occured after NAFTA was signed was a big expansion in Mexico (not Canada)..

            Japanese companies in Canada? Sure but many more are in Mexico – Mazda built their first North American factory in the past 2 years, where did they choose (hint not US or Canada). US and Japanese companies are building more facilities in Mexico than Canada. Exactly because Mexico is a cheaper country to operate in. I can’t believe you are arguing that point.

            The immigration point was in relation to some posts further up about why Trump is focusing on the southern border. Which makes sense when illegal crossings are greater than 100 times more on the southern than northern border.

            As for single issues voters – a lot of people (for better or worse) vote on single issues (abortion, guns, immigration etc).

            I agree for consistency sake the Silverado and Ram should be mentioned. Lets give it time. Earlier today people were saying Trump was going back on the pledge to drain the swamp because of the House GOP decision to change how the ethics committee reports. Well now at 1:30pm EST Trump intervened and the ethics committee will stay independent (good). Point is – things change during the day – lets give some credit too.

          • 0 avatar
            FreedMike

            “US companies have been in Canada well before NAFTA. ”

            US car companies were in Mexico well before NAFTA too.
            __________________________________________

            “Japanese companies in Canada? Sure but many more are in Mexico…”

            OK, look at what Japanese makes are made in Canada versus Mexico:

            Canada:
            Honda Civic, Toyota RAV4, Toyota Corolla

            Mexico:
            Honda HR-V, Toyota Yaris iA (Mazda2), Toyota Tacoma

            Now, which models sell better – the Canadian built ones, or the Mexican-built ones?

            Seems to me a lot more American jobs are “stolen” north of the border in this case. Why no outrage from Trump?
            __________________________________________

            “The immigration point was in relation to some posts further up about why Trump is focusing on the southern border. Which makes sense when illegal crossings are greater than 100 times more on the southern than northern border.”

            No one says illegal immigration isn’t a serious problem, but has precisely zilch to do with automotive trade imbalances with Mexico…unless, of course, the illegals are hiding in the all the Mexican-made cars being shipped to the U.S.

            Let me know when you have evidence of that particular issue.

            Until then, all that tying illegal immigration to slapping 35% tariffs on cars made in Mexico does is a) unfairly punishes U.S. and Japanese automakers for a problem they didn’t create, and b) cost American consumers more. It also creates huge competitive problems. For example…want to watch Toyota Tundra and Nissan Titan sales go through the roof? Make Chevy Silverados, GMC Sierras and Dodge Rams cost 35% more. Done.

            The bottom line is that Trump is making a punching bag of Chevy Cruzes built in Mexico – all 100 of them, I’d say – because he has made Mexico a punching bag in general, and his followers LOVE it. I’ll leave it to you and everyone else to figure out why that’s so.

          • 0 avatar
            mike978

            I never said illegal immigration had a thing to do with auto trade balances.

            Interesting list, and some new to me. You could add the Nissan Sentra and Mazda 3 to the Mexico ledger. Both of those sell well.

            Yes Mexico is a punching bag at times, just like France or China have been. Sure some of it is racial animus. Some of it isn’t.

        • 0 avatar
          bikegoesbaa

          I don’t really mind jobs leaving the US if they’re going somewhere with comparable wages and worker/environmental protections. Sometimes there are valid reasons to move work elsewhere.

          I do mind when the main thing the new nation has to offer is cheap labor and a lack of oversight.

  • avatar
    05lgt

    I wonder how bad his first big trade war’s economic fallout will be. Maybe now IS the time for gold. I don’t want to believe what I’m seeing, hearing and reading. That’s a problem.

  • avatar
    Arthur Dailey

    The difference in labour costs of assembling a vehicle in Mexico as opposed to assembling one in the USA or Canada is actually not that significant when considering the overall cost of manufacturing, shipping and marketing the vehicle.

    I am sure that there are others on this site that have greater access to current figures, however about 6 years ago, if I remember it correctly an economist involved in the auto industry told us at a seminar session that he had calculated that the difference in the assembly only labour costs between Oshawa and Mexico were well under $400 per vehicle.

    Perhaps why GM has agreed to ship parts to Oshawa for final assembly?

    • 0 avatar
      DeadWeight

      Labor costs differential is a small component of the savings in building in Mexico vs th US or Canada.

      Regulatory compliance (environmental laws, labor laws, taxation, etc.) probably saves multinationals 10x that which they save from lower priced labor.

      Still, the wage differentials are steep.

      According to Ward’s/Boston Consulting Group/WSJ, here are the average hourly wages* (not including benefits, which should have been analyzed and included, as these can be huge % of overall compensation) for hourly employees in the auto sector in the following nations:

      Germany: $26.25

      U.S.A.: $23.83

      Canada: $19.13

      SKorea: $12.99

      Brazil: $6.17

      China: $5.19

      Mexico: $3.29

      India: $1.09

      *As of Beginning of 2016

      • 0 avatar
        Corey Lewis

        I’d like to see Japan on here, I suspect it’s between USA and Germany somewhere. Although if cost of benefits are not put into the wages on this list, there is a big aspect missing. Suddenly Mexico says $5.50 and USA says $59.96

        Looks like the best bang for your buck where you still get good quality assembly might be in S Korea.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          Japan is at just under $17 IIRC (but again, hourly wage can be deceptive given that in some such countries, there’s little to no out-of-pocket medical care costs, which can run very expensive in places like the US, even WITH comprehensive employer-provided health insurance, nor does it focus on effective federal/state/consumption tax rates).

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “Looks like the best bang for your buck where you still get good quality assembly might be in S Korea.”

          Gangnam style!

      • 0 avatar
        Arthur Dailey

        Deadweight is correct in that regulatory compliance is generally more costly than labour cost differentials. Environmental regulations, occupational health and safety standards, electricity costs, property taxes, etc all factor into the equation.

        Canada consistently benefited from having universal health care, whereas in the USA the automakers paid for healthcare benefits for their workers.

        The actual amount of ‘labour’ involved in final assembly is shockingly rather limited. Increased automation, etc have decreased the need for workers ‘on the line’.

        Hoping that ‘Tresmonos’ will be able to provide some additional insight into this.

        • 0 avatar
          FreedMike

          “Canada consistently benefited from having universal health care, whereas in the USA the automakers paid for healthcare benefits for their workers.”

          And not only their workers, but their retirees. I seem to recall that had something to do with GM’s bankruptcy…

          • 0 avatar
            Arthur Dailey

            @FreedMike: you are correct.

            And I just ran a very quick check on the number of hourly workers employed at Brampton (FCA), Oakville (Ford) and Oshawa (GM) and their annual vehicle production.

            Based on that and the average number of paid hours worked it appears that each vehicle takes less than 20 labour hours to produce/complete/assemble on average at these facilities.

            That would make the difference in labour costs between Canada and Mexico of an average of $316.80 per vehicle.

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          I predict (not so boldly, as it’s already been happening for a while) that nation-states will race to the bottom, Ireland-style (see Ireland tax rates for corporations creating jobs in even moderate numbers fulfilled by human, carbon-based bodies), in competing with each other to offer lower corporate tax rates to lire foreign direct investment, and that they’ll (well, their taxpayers) even cover much larger portions of infrastructure, plant and even equipment/capital costs (subsidies), as keeping people employed becomes a prevention of revolution/uprising (either by ballot box or ammunition box) where of nations and national politicians (with literal physical revolutions dependent on such success particularly in emerging markets – France may face The Popular Front of Marine Le Pen, but China faces a far more dire potential threat in a long-feared Jade Revolution).

        • 0 avatar
          DeadWeight

          “The actual amount of ‘labour’ involved in final assembly is shockingly rather limited. Increased automation, etc have decreased the need for workers ‘on the line’.”

          In the 1920s, an average of 1,100 man-hours of assembly went into producing a single ‘motor vehicle carriage.’

          Ford’s Model T (and innovative assembly line) brought that down to 60 man-hours per vehicle.

          In efficient, modern plants, the median time to assemble a complete vehicle is now just under 12 hours, and rarely takes more than 16 even in inefficient ones.

          We’ll probably see that # drop to around 7 or 8 hours in the next decade, and human-less assembly lines are probably inevitable within 25 years (even QC and inspection tasks will be fully automated).

          This is mainly due to automation assuming tasks that were once he exclusive responsibility of carbon-based life forms.

          The greatest, least discussed challenge for the global economy in this century is how nations will create enough jobs to prevent either or both a) revolution and/or b) insolvency.

          I have a client that owns a closely held corporation making heavy duty aftermarket parts for the trucking industry, and this company has increased parts production 6-fold with 40% of the hourly employees it had in2000. The founder and his son LOVE ROBOTS/ROBOTICS, and swear they can’t wait to eliminate every last human employee, without a tinge of guilt, when asked about automation (and their two facilities are both located in Vice President-Elect Mike Pence’s home state of Indiana).

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            I expect that if we continue to see a focus on where the factories are, automakers will shift final assembly to the US with one hand, while the other hand off-shores engineering, marketing, purchasing, finance, HR functions, etc.

          • 0 avatar
            sutherland555

            Great information in this particular thread everyone….very enlightening!

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      If GM can save $400 per vehicle by making them in Mexico, they will. It’s very hard to find that sort of cost savings elsewhere in the vehicle.

      That’s $4 million saved for every 10,000 vehicles – something no company can ignore except for political or union pressure.

  • avatar
    Trend-Shifter

    We should be discussing the Buick Envision that is being imported from China.
    They are probably hitting our docks about now.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      That horse has left the barn. I’m at “headquarters” and one is sitting in the parking lot, been owned long enough to not even have temporary tags. Nice coco-mocha color exterior.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      They hit the docks a long time ago.

      But point taken.

      • 0 avatar
        VoGo

        Maybe we should figure out that global companies source labor where it is skilled and inexpensive, to the benefits of their shareholders.

        Maybe we should focus on educating and engaging an American workforce to be greatest in the world, rather than sitting around waiting for a President Elect to hand us our dream job.

        • 0 avatar
          Whittaker

          “Maybe we should figure out that global companies source labor where it is skilled and inexpensive, to the benefits of their shareholders.”

          True.
          But we can also acknowledge that any company that operates within the U.S. is subject to our political will through our laws and regulations. The U.S. Government exist for the benefit of U.S. citizens, not any company’s stockholders.
          In other words, they can play the game by our rules or they can get the hell out.
          One of the benefits of being a country that has created great wealth is that we don’t have a shortage of companies wanting access to our markets.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Please show me where in the US legal code it is illegal to import goods or offshore work. Because if that’s the case, then all that [email protected] Trump sells from China might just be an issue.

          • 0 avatar
            Whittaker

            “Please show me where in the US legal code it is illegal to import goods or offshore work. Because if that’s the case, then all that [email protected] Trump sells from China might just be an issue.”

            Did I say that?
            I agreed that your statement was true.
            Is mine?
            Yes or no would suffice.

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Yes, your statement is true, Whittaker. But history has shown that smart governments have courted businesses and the jobs they bring, rather than driven them away with punitive laws that fly in the face of basic economics.

          • 0 avatar
            Whittaker

            Yes, agree 100%

  • avatar
    mtmmo

    I want to say THANK YOU TTAC as I haven’t laughed this hard in years. Reading all the left wingers melt down is beyond hilarious and Trump hasn’t even moved into the White House. THIS IS PRICELESS!! It is AWESOME finally having a REAL President who knows what needs to be done and how to do it. No one is happier today than Ford workers and myself. That’s why this Democrat happily voted for Donald Trump. MAGA!!!

    Now all you anti-American Democrat leftists can get back to melting down. It’s going to a LONG 8 years for you! Liberalism truly is a mental disorder.

    • 0 avatar
      Arthur Dailey

      @mtmmo: Except that ‘liberalism’ is what helped bring your job and its pay/benefits/working conditions into existence. Read the history of your company and Ford’s ‘security force’.

      In Canada it was a Conservative government that enacted the Free Trade Agreement.

      Neither political outlook is 100% right nor wrong.

      However statements like your final one are nothing but ignorant and falls below what is expected on this forum.

      • 0 avatar
        mtmmo

        *YAWN* In case you forgot no one cares what you think. I give you credit though as bore-assing people seems to come natural for you.

        • 0 avatar
          Arthur Dailey

          A prime example why there is so much concern about Trumpism. The fact, demonstrated above that so many of his followers are unable to string together 2 cogent thoughts.

          They actually believe that SHOUTING, swearing and throwing incoherent insults is a form of acceptable behaviour among adults.

          It’s too bad because some of us would like to agree with some of his concerns and efforts but do not wish to be tarred with the brush of association with his other followers.

    • 0 avatar
      FreedMike

      “Liberalism truly is a mental disorder.”

      You’ll have to tell me where you got your degree in psychiatry.

      Hannity U, perhaps?

    • 0 avatar
      OldManPants

      mtmmo, it’s so nice that someone of your status can find *something* to brighten your day!

    • 0 avatar
      Chan

      Check the dictionary–“liberalism” is not what your uncle said it is.

      But contempt for those who think differently from you–par for the course for someone of your calibre.

      Keep it up and the mods will be looking at you.

    • 0 avatar
      Sceptic

      mtmmo, Best comment ever! All “liberals”-“progressives” wetting their diapers. Threats of “moderation” lol! Let them be concerned. America needs change. The real change. Not what the current pres “promised”. I used to think that Obama was a dangerous demagogue. He turned out to be just a fluff, a waste of time…

  • avatar
    dukeisduke

    Sure, Trump is a jerk, but he’s got the automakers’ attention. Ford just announced that they’re cancelling the $1.6b plant in Mexico, and they’re instead going to spend $700m on the Michigan plant.

  • avatar
    zipster

    Tonycd:

    In a few words you have explained how easy it is to manipulate a large segment of the American public.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    About 100 people from my last company (taken over by Honeywell) lost their jobs to Mexico and China this year, thanks to that company’s CEO Dave Cote, who happens to be the CEO most frequently visiting the White House under Obama.

    http://fortune.com/2015/12/15/obama-ceo-white-house/

    Honeywell’s acquisitions follow a common pattern of decimation, including the outsourcing of all manufacturing to third parties (and much engineering, also), and not because they weren’t profitable – it’s because they weren’t profitable *enough*.

    Ironically, Mexico may not be the final destination for this work, because Honeywell can save even more money by going to China.

    Before the acquisition, we were already outsourcing some components to stay competitive, without sacrificing any in-company jobs. In fact, it can be argued this actually saved American jobs. But it was done very carefully.

    It’s hard to watch a sister plant of 700 people dwindle to 25, then close. It’s hard to watch another sister plant of 2000 people shrink to 400 and falling. And it’s hard to stomach teaching foreign workers your job so it can be taken over by them. And it’s hard to leave a dying business that thrived for most of the years you were there, hoping the remaining people will find jobs (like I did) before the office closes for good.

    So while I’m sympathetic to Trump’s rhetoric on this issue, I don’t think chanting “USA, USA!” is the only answer. I just wish he’d do more homework on subjects of such national importance, and close his Twitter account.

    As for Trump himself (I voted for him, only deciding at the last second not to go third party), the burden of the Presidency will be quite a surprise.

    To the Trump haters, however, I say this: Don’t believe the cartoon. The US isn’t going to turn into Nazi Germany, the Jim Crow South, or some banana republic with a dictator at its helm. These ridiculous stereotypes simply won’t materialize.

    • 0 avatar
      Chan

      I don’t think Trump has the experience or technical wizardry to create a police state on his own. His critics think others (“the Swamp”) will help him or influence him to do it.

      I wasn’t a fan of either candidate–I just hope he figures out how to run the country and not get manipulated by the Swamp.

      • 0 avatar
        OldManPants

        Infantilism brings its own special unpredictability, and its now bringing it to the most destructively capable job in the world.

        This disrupts my sanguinity.

    • 0 avatar
      30-mile fetch

      “So while I’m sympathetic to Trump’s rhetoric on this issue, I don’t think chanting “USA, USA!” is the only answer. I just wish he’d do more homework on subjects of such national importance, and close his Twitter account.”

      Thanks for the very reasoned comment, SCE, I agree with much of it.

      I strongly dislike Trump, but the economic frustrations that led some to support him are valid and were unlikely to be addressed by Clinton. His factually-deficient bluster and messianic appeal to his more enamored followers is spooky, but I don’t believe for a moment we are headed towards autocracy. I’d like to see economic revival for those left behind in this recovery and a more equitable rising tide, but am perplexed as to how a lifetime narcissistic one-percenter who is incorporating other establishment one-percenters into his administration is going to accomplish this. I’d be more willing to give him a chance if he’d silence his Twitter and act like a grown-up.

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      SCE – Like you I voted for Trump at the last second and I’m thrilled I did as my vote was in a key blue state that helped put Trump over the top. I’m not sure if I’m going to switch to the GOP or become Independent but I definitely can’t remain a member of the Democrat party as they’re too anti-American worker. I think OH Democrat Rep Tim Ryan put it best when he said the Democrat party doesn’t care about American workers and has become nothing more than a irrelevant party for coastal elites.

      I wouldn’t hold your breath in seeing Democrats ever accept the election results as they’ve proven to be nothing but sore losers. Just look at the way they treated Ivanka Trump and her kids on that Jet Blue flight. Many Democrats applauded the guys actions because today’s fascists are card carrying Democrats.

      I love Trump’s usage of Twitter and hope it’ll continue. Wikileaks proved how corrupt the media (and DNC) really is. Trump using Twitter is brilliant. MAGA!

      • 0 avatar
        30-mile fetch

        Trump using Twitter is actually brilliant, from a marketing perspective. But MAGA by looking up the definition of fascist before mindlessly ascribing it to others. You need to employ more of your brain than the stem, and your comment history here suggests that isn’t likely.

        Interestingly, some historians have argued that the vocal contingent of Trump supporters who eschewed fact for emotional appeal, identification of enemies, and hero worship have some worrisome parallels to fascist rhetoric present in early 20th Century Europe.

        Now that’s a concept sure to stir anger, especially among those unwilling to separate partisan definitions from the true meaning of fascism, but since you already brought it up in an incredibly stupid and one-dimensional manner, there it is.

        • 0 avatar
          VoGo

          I just want to point out that I’m not the one who proved Godwin’s law today. So I have that to hang my hat on.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            Confused.

            Who was accusing you of it?

            And who brought up Hitler/Nazis?

          • 0 avatar
            SCE to AUX

            That was me; I’m OK with it. I was merely pointing out what others say.

            Godwin’s Law will soon need a “Trump” addendum, I think.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            Hmm, I didn’t interpret your comment as a fulfillment of Godwin’s Law at all. Part of me thinks VoGo was referring to me.

        • 0 avatar
          Sceptic

          “Fascism should more properly be called corporatism, since it is the merger of state and corporate power” – Benito Mussolini

          This is exactly the goal of statist elites. QED

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            “If you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does” -Groucho Marx

            This is an exact description of your thought processes. QED

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            Septic,
            Do you quote Mussolini because you envy fascist states, or dislike them? I ask because we’ve never before had a President Elect who refused to disentangle himself from his business interests before assuming the office.

          • 0 avatar
            OldManPants

            Well, Jefferson kept up his low volume slave breeding which is a role most Virginia plantations had by then assumed, suppliers to the rest of the growing number of slave states and territories. That kind of gave portents of future complications.

            I’m sure there are oodles of other examples.

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            I wouldn’t have thought to look to Mussolini to provide the perfect description of Donald Trump’s refusal to divest from his global business interests while holding the highest office in the country, so thanks for doing so.

            Merger of state and corporate power indeed.

            Did you think at all before you posted that?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Tell me you don’t see a resemblance.

            i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/08/31/15/37C16BF700000578-3767201-image-a-60_1472653614419.jpg

            truthandaction.org/wp-content/uploads/Obama-smug-head-photo-680×365.jpg

          • 0 avatar
            30-mile fetch

            The first one looks more like Vladimir Putin, which is fitting. The second picture was Error 404. Which is fine. truthandaction.org, huh?

            Have you seen the old picture montages comparing George W Bush’s facial expressions to chimpanzees? Now those were funny. Try something like that.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Putin might look evil, but not smug. This is smug:

            aviewfromtheright.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Obama-smug-head-photo.jpg

      • 0 avatar
        Chan

        Agree that the Dems are out of touch, but so are most of the other politicos. And nobody applauded the guy who harassed Ivanka Trump’s family–check your actual news. Verbal abuse is a quick ticket to getting arrested.

  • avatar
    Whittaker

    Strange things have happened in the last 18 months but none stranger than supposedly smart people repeatedly underestimating Trump.

    And now, every other post on this topic is insinuating that more middle-class blue-collar jobs in the U.S. is somehow a bad thing, or a reason for Trump voters to feel regret, or a trick, or something something racist Walmart Silverado something.

    The election is over. People gotta step back from their anger and disappointment. If Trump is a disaster, then he is a disaster. Things won’t be any better because you made 6,000 posts on TTAC telling half of America that they are stupid.
    Rule #1. If you are emotionally distraught or your anger is boiling, DO NOT POST ON THE INTERNET!

    Exception granted to Deadweight, whose brilliance only grows with his discomfort, due, I suspect, to a smidge of outer space DNA.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      1. We didn’t underestimate Trump. We overestimated the intelligence of a portion of the electorate in places like Florida, Ohio, Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

      2. Bullying a few companies into “saving” a factory here and there won’t amount to a hill of beans outside of a few thousand families. Not that it’s a bad thing, but keep in mind the economy has added 15 MILLION jobs in the last 7 years.

      3. Would the people who are telling me to get over the election and accept defeat please stop waving confederate flags in my face? It’s very distracting.

      • 0 avatar
        mike978

        Vogo – some reasonable points but the list of states was quite large. I just re all Obama voters in 2012 (I was one) laughing at the Romney voters for their shock at losing based on bad polling and telling them to get over it.

      • 0 avatar
        don1967

        @VoGo

        1. Arrogant statements like this are a big part of why the elitists lost, and why so many are dancing on the grave. But please, keep on bashing your intellectual inferiors in 2017. It worked so well in 2016.

        2. Citing post-2008 economic “growth” didn’t enhance Obama’s credibility, and it doesn’t enhance yours either.

        3. People will keep telling your side to accept defeat for as long as your side keeps insulting the intelligence of the winners, seeking ways of overturning democracy when it doesn’t like the outcome, fabricating fake stories about confederate flags/racists/etc., and generally behaving like spoiled brats.

        • 0 avatar
          OldManPants

          Yah, well I’m ignernt as f*ck, I chew tabacco, I hate anyone who looks differnt and I agree with VoGo.

          My people got duped by the Orange Oaf machine.

        • 0 avatar
          mtmmo

          Sour grapes and sore losers are today’s Bubblecrats and the longer it goes on the better it is for America. The funniest part is Obama ripped Trump at the 2011 White House Correspondents Association dinner and now Trump will be wiping out Obama’s entire legacy. By the end of January Obama will have no legacy to speak of. Now who’s laughing!?

      • 0 avatar
        Sceptic

        Vogo, just stop spreading lies and everything will be fine.

        • 0 avatar
          shaker

          Deleted content. Just outrage that won’t diminish. :-(

          • 0 avatar
            VoGo

            septic and don1967,
            If there is anything I’ve written here which is untrue, please educate me.

            If it merely disagrees with the “reality” you’ve chosen to isolate yourself into, then I can’t help you.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        So wait those same people were pretty smart in 2012 but now all of the sudden they lost some IQ points? Was there some kind of retrovirus which killed their neurons? What else could explain this?

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      I’ll admit that it is a little weird seeing democrats embrace the “Free Market and Profit Maximization FTW” school of thought and using terms like “business realities”.

  • avatar
    philipwitak

    anybody ever heard of nafta? it is the controlling trade deal that treats all production vehicles manufactured in canada, mexico and the u.s.a. as domestic makes for all three countries.

    under nafta, tariffs of the sort ‘donnie dips hit’ threatens are not permitted. and i don’t see canada or mexico expressing any interest whatsoever in renegotiating nafta.

    • 0 avatar
      VoGo

      Correct. Punishing an individual company, such as GM with a tarriff would violate NAFTA and would not hold up in court. The issue for GM is whether they want to go to real court on an issue in which they would lose in the ‘court of public opinion.’

      Of course, Trump would risk further exposure for all the Trump branded merchandise that is made in Chaynuh, so we have a bit of a standoff.

    • 0 avatar
      mtmmo

      philipwitak apparently you have limited knowledge of NAFTA. President Trump can easily cancel the agreement as it only requires a six month written notice. That however won’t be necessary as Canada and Mexico are already on record to following President Trump wishes and renegotiating the agreement. It’s just one small step in President Trump Making America Great Again.

  • avatar

    Why isn’t trump mad that the Bolt was engineered and designed in Korea. White collar workers are getting the shaft too in this country.


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