By on August 16, 2014

Scion U.S. sales chart July 2014Having reached a four-year peak in 2012, the year in which the FR-S first arrived, sales at Toyota USA’s Scion division slid 7.1% in 2013.

Through the first seven months of 2014, every Scion model except the tC is selling less often than they did one year ago. The iQ’s 47% drop equals 1244 fewer sales through seven months. The FR-S’s 24% decrease translates to 2802 fewer sales.

Scion sold 173,000 new vehicles in 2006, the brand’s best year on record. With likely no more than 65,000 sales in 2014, Scion will have declined 62% from that point. (It was, not surprisingly, worse between 2009 and 2011.)

Scion’s Toyota parent company, however, sells a rather large number of vehicles in America. With just 2.6% of U.S. Toyota volume coming from Scion – 12% from Lexus – it’s not as though this has to be a long-term headache. Twelve different nameplates, on their own, outsell the Scion brand as a whole.

Get the latest TTAC e-Newsletter!

85 Comments on “Chart Of The Day: At Least Toyota Has Toyotas...”


  • avatar
    kvndoom

    Badge is everything. Change the brand to “Toyota” and watch sales skyrocket. A “Toyota Corolla Coupe” would outsell a “Scion tC” by leaps and bounds.

    Damn stubborn Japanese pride. “Let’s lose billions of dollars instead of admit a mistake.”

    • 0 avatar
      turboprius

      I honestly think that they should’ve just made the tC the new generation of Celica. It came out at the same time the Celica was discontinued, it’s a small coupe, and TRD upgrades are available. Plus, a lot of people loved the Celica. My mom loved her 1988 that she had way back when.

      Brands changing names bothers me. I wish the Charger was the Intrepid, the 300 the Concorde, the Flex the Freestyle/Taurus X, and so on.

      • 0 avatar
        Fred

        I thought of the TC more as a Corrola hot hatch. Scions problems are it’s too cute and people would just assume to buy a Kia with heated seats for about the same money.

      • 0 avatar
        Instant_Karma

        The last Celica was an Integra/RSX fighter, a job the tC would have really sucked at.

      • 0 avatar
        threeer

        This. My wife loves her 2011 tC and would have bought it regardless of name. I think it would have done better if sold as a Celica. Still, we’ll most likley keep it until the wheels fall off, which given that it is sitting in the USA while we’re here in Saudi means that it’ll still be very low mileage when we return, even though friends of ours are keeping it for us and put a few miles a month on it just to run it.
        Nothing much in Scion’s lineup seems unique enough to me to keep a seperate brand. Even the FR-S could easily slide under the Toyota umbrella and Scion could vanish without so much as a whimper.

    • 0 avatar
      James2

      Maybe Toyota isn’t raking it in on Scion sales, but I doubt they be losing billions. After all, the Scions (Scii?) –save for the FR-S– are based on existing Toyota platforms.

      I agree, though, that Toyota would have been better served if the Scii were sold as Toyotas. Sales still might be in the toilet, but at least they would not have spent so much time/money/effort on marketing, redesigning showrooms, etc.

    • 0 avatar

      Its more than just the badge. SCION has its own “selling system,” similar to the one that failed for Saturn and the Ford Collection, a group of Ford factory owned dealerships. While it is true that some consumers will buy in a so called “user friendly” environment, it has been proven that there are not enough of these consumers to provide a viable business model despite how consumers answer survey questions. When the business model fails to “move the metal” the brand doesn’t get any real new investment in exclusive models. For an OEM, why give a new hot model to a division that won’t move them in volume when they can give the same model to a division that will?

      Why did consumers eschew the really great Saturn Aura in favor of the Camry and Accord, where they would be “abused” in a traditional selling environment? At some point the industry needs to figure this out.

      • 0 avatar
        geozinger

        Your statements about the Scion and Saturn selling system lead me to wonder: Since cars have almost always been sold in the current manner, how long would a Saturn-style have to be implemented to see any change in consumer behavior? The Saturn (and by association) and Scion methods were/are very small in scope and far out of the norm. If they were the norm maybe we’d be having a different discussion.

        FWIW, you’re 100% on the Saturn Aura. My daughter has one and it is a great ride. Now I wish I would have bought one of those instead.

        • 0 avatar
          Pch101

          People may claim that they don’t want to haggle, but paying sticker is even less appealing.

          If given the choice between buying a Scion at MSRP and the chance to haggle on a Toyota parked on the same lot, the average American would choose the Toyota because of the opportunity for negotiation, as everybody likes the idea of getting a better deal. (Whether or not they get that deal is another matter.)

          The only way for the no-haggle model to gain a significant foothold would be for the average consumer to raise the white flag on negotiation. Perhaps the Millennials will do that, but I wouldn’t expect most Boomers or X’ers to acquiesce.

      • 0 avatar
        wmba

        ” Why did consumers eschew the really great Saturn Aura in favor of the Camry and Accord, where they would be “abused” in a traditional selling environment?”

        Because they’re not stupid? Even if the Saturn Aura was a great car, the L200 and Ions were dogs of the first order, while Honda and Toyota had 20 years of reliability to recommend them, dealer experience notwithstanding.

        And even if they were slowly becoming aware of this fantabulous goodness of an upmarket Pontiac G6, Poof!, GM exploded into bankruptcy and Saturn bit the dust.

        Quite what has to be figured out in retrospect is this: nothing. People buy known reliable cars and don’t gamble on that aspect. They’ll put up with a day or two fa+ting around with dealer shysters to get what they want for the next 4 to 8 years.

    • 0 avatar
      slyall

      Very true, I have been looking for something that I like better than my 2010 Matrix S, if the TC were called a Toyota something, had better interior materials, and looked less weird from the b pillar rearward, I’d buy one tomorrow, and I bet a lot of other people would too, listening Toyota?

  • avatar
    Rday

    whoever killed the old XB started the decline of Scion. Having committed one major mistake, toyota compounded it by not bringing back the old model asap. shame on toyota. proof that they a not perfect.

    • 0 avatar
      RedStapler

      The econobox cube market is also split with Kia Soul and Nissan Cube both getting a big chunk now. On a value basis the current Xb looks weak next to the Kia Soul.

      • 0 avatar
        turboprius

        The Cube is leaving the market, and if I remember correctly, so is the xB.

        It’ll be the Soul on its own. Well, and every minivan except the Odyssey, because boxes.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Wow the Toyota Avalon outsells the entire Scion brand and as has been repeated many times on this site – sedans are dead.

    So just to reiterate, a sedan aimed at old people outsells an entire brand aimed at youth.

    • 0 avatar
      petezeiss

      “So just to reiterate, a sedan aimed at old people outsells an entire brand aimed at youth.”

      Perfectly said.

      Youth today are sort of an embarrassing reminder of a more optimistic past. Definitely not anybody’s go-to demo.

      • 0 avatar
        Ubermensch

        “Youth today are sort of an embarrassing reminder of a more optimistic past. Definitely not anybody’s go-to demo.”

        …said every preceding generation ever.

        • 0 avatar
          petezeiss

          “…said every preceding generation ever.”

          Right… and that’s why the phrase “boomerang generation” wasn’t coined until the early 2000s?

          Sorry you have to be young, I really am.

          • 0 avatar
            Fred

            There is a growing anti-consumerism/environmental ethic in this country at least. Maybe the youth are embracing it.

          • 0 avatar

            “There is a growing anti-consumerism/environmental ethic in this country at least. Maybe the youth are embracing it.”

            Perfectly describes baby boomer generation – lazy youth craving for drugs and sex and concerned about environment and world peace. Boomer generation shaped America and continues to dominate.

        • 0 avatar
          thelaine

          Perhaps, but look at the economics. The young have been eaten by the old and they keep voting for it.

      • 0 avatar
        FormerFF

        Dey gotz no money. Thanks, sorry ass job market!

        • 0 avatar
          whynot

          Scion also has no cars (except the FR-S) that appeal to youths.

          Making small cars and putting embarrassing marketing around it that comes across as something 50 year old executives think is “hip and cool dawg” does not make a “youth” brand.

      • 0 avatar
        mdensch

        I’m not in the market for a car like the Avalon but I am in it’s demographic and, trust me, when people of my generation were in their 20s they weren’t buying new cars, either. Thus has it always been.

    • 0 avatar
      Joe McKinney

      Minivans are supposed to be dead also, but here we see the Sienna outselling the entire Scion lineup by more than two to one.

      • 0 avatar
        petezeiss

        I don’t recall anyone predicting the demise of minivans, only stating that they wished for it. I’ve seen many comments echoing my sentiments about their ridiculous bloat, but I think everyone accedes that minivans will be here as long as families of more than 2 children exist. Well, families with income earners, anyway.

        • 0 avatar
          Joe McKinney

          The references I have heard to minivans being dead usually compares their current sales to sales when the minivan craze was at its height.

          The U.S. minivan market peaked at 1.37 million units in 2000. In 2013 sales totaled 532,537 units for 3.4% of the U.S. new vehicle market. There is also the fact that only three manufacturers (Chrysler, Honda and Toyota) currently have any significant presence in the segment.

          I agree that minivans are not going away, though they have become very much a niche segment. My wife and I own a 2010 Odyssey. We think it is a great family vehicle and we would buy another.

          The bloat in minivans occurred with the 3rd generation Chryslers in 1996. This was when the original K-Car based minivan platform was replaced with a new dedicated minivan platform.

          The exterior dimensions of the current Grand Caravan, Sienna and Odyssey are within three inches of the 1996 Grand Caravan. The new minivans are around 600 pounds heavier due to more stringent safety regulations and added features not found in 1990′s minivans.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            If you count large CUVs (Traverse/Acadia/Enclave, Explorer/Flex/CX-9, etc.), or even the current crop of mid-size CUVS as minivans with AWD and less-efficient packaging, we’ve got plenty of minivan choices.

            And also remember that the move from the K-body to the larger ’96 platform was accompanied by an almost-total shift the large-wheelbase models (Grand Caravan vs. Caravan, Grand Voyager vs. Voyager, etc.), so the bloat, while present, isn’t nearly as severe as we sometimes like to think.

          • 0 avatar
            Joe McKinney

            Shhhh! Don’t tell the CUV crowd they are really driving minivans disguised as SUVs.

            You are right about the popularity of the LWB Chrysler minivans. The SWB 1996 Chrysler vans were almost as big as the LWB 1987-1995 models. Yet over the next decade SWB sales declined to the point Chrysler discontinued the SWB model in 2007.

            The perceived bloat in newer minivans may be visual and a result of their styling. The boxy 5th generation Chryslers do look bigger than the rounded 3rd and 4th generation models. Likewise the rear of the latest Sienna looks huge, though it is the same height as its predecessor and less than an inch wider. Only the current Odyssey looks leaner than the previous generation.

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      I was just about to say that: the _Avalon_, essentially a lengthened Camry, outsells the _entire_Scion_brand_. Yeesh!

    • 0 avatar

      AND the gross profit to both dealer and especially the OEM are MUCH higher than the vehicles purchased by younger people. So which generation carries the most value?

  • avatar
    petezeiss

    “…said every preceding generation ever.”

    Right… and that’s why the phrase “boomerang generation” wasn’t coined until the early 2000s?

    Sorry you have to be young, I really am.

    • 0 avatar
      formula m

      Ya cause being old is so cool right now… Maybe young people just don’t want to own a scion. Weird neither do old people.

    • 0 avatar
      Ubermensch

      Who says I’m young? I’m 41 and part of gen x. I don’t bag on younger generations because the older generations did the same thing to us.

      • 0 avatar
        petezeiss

        Far from wishing to “bag” on younger folks, my criticism is meant for their parents who didn’t get snipped or tied. The portents have been obvious enough since the ’70s where this country’s middle and working class were headed.

  • avatar
    Spartan

    Kia and Hyundai stole all of Scion’s customers, and they aren’t coming back.

    • 0 avatar
      NoGoYo

      I’d certainly rather have an Optima Turbo than a tC, even if the Optima Turbo only comes in a 4 door.

      • 0 avatar
        Dan

        I don’t know how much of it goes away with rebates and discounting but there’s a $7,500 – 35% – sticker difference between the two. I’d certainly hope you’d rather have the expensive one.

        A new Toyota with a big four and a J VIN is a lot of car for $20,000 if you can get past the shame of Scion’s boy racer market positioning. I couldn’t, and sales suggest nobody else can either, not even boy racers.

        But keep in mind what $20,000 looks like at Spanielburger motors. Not sexy 270 horsepower Optimas. Elantras and Velosters.

        • 0 avatar
          Sam Hell Jr

          You’ve succinctly expressed the reasoning that put a tC in my garage.

          It’s also worth noting that the present tC is something a Great Recession baby, having been redesigned in 2008-10 for 2011 release. Toyota decided to keep the highlights — big-boy engine and transmission and wheels, four-wheel disc brakes, independent rear suspension, giant speakers, pano sunroof — and cut costs from the sound insulation, interior plastics and fabrics, and infotainment. The market went the other direction. Turns out even 25 year olds would rather have a bank vault of a Cruze, thrashy engine, rear-drum brakes, and dumber suspension notwithstanding.

          When I was shopping in 2011, it was basically down to the tC or a 5-door Focus. For the money I got more car (made of Toyota Neverbreakium), but also a rough ride on broken pavement (i.e., everywhere) and a much louder, more tiring road-trip experience. Now that I’m older and boring, I’d probably opt for something with better visibility and NVH.

          Of course, now that I’m older and boring, I also love being very nearly out of debt. So it goes.

      • 0 avatar
        Occam

        A car with a stick will win over one that’s only available with PRND like a geezer-Marquis, every day of the week.

        Ya know, I don’t usually like four-door cars, but the Optima is quite a looker. Sad that you can’t even special order with a fun gearbox, but as we know, the rule in cars is that if it doesn’t sell to the masses, nobody can have it.

  • avatar
    Volt 230

    Scion just needs to go away, sell the FRS as it is sold throughout the world and the tC as a Celica and get rid of the others. Too much pride and too much income from Toyota branded cars.

  • avatar
    grinchsmate

    It would be interesting to know what the brand costs Toyota. Is Scion just a bit of sign writing or is it a real company with associated costs?

    As for the actual brand I just don’t get it. Anyone who knows anything about cars thinks of Scion as Toyota. People who don’t care about cars don’t care, or probably know, about the stigma some people attach to Toyota. Are there enough people inbetween who don’t want to drive their grandmothers Toyota but think Scion is some cool new brand.

    Of course this really has nothing to do with cars. It would be great to get someone in marketing to explain these things.

    • 0 avatar
      Xeranar

      Sign writing the whole way. Everything Scion sells has a Japan market compatriot offered under the Corolla or Toyota branding.

      This is why Scion can get away with 35K units a year and it doesn’t make a huge stink in the home office. Even their logo was designed to fit directly into the Taurus head logo spot. Basically Scion gets a handful of different interior modelings where their logo is which adds next to nothing to production costs and they get to use the excess capacity in their home plants to push an extra 5%-10% of capacity out the door and onto American shores. Toyota has been able to use Scion to introduce models that can sell or fail with less effect to the home brand. It’s a great marketing scheme if anything.

      The whole fact that TTAC gets to write bi-weekly reports on Scion’s terrible sales is great for them, too.

  • avatar

    I despise the 3-rd world car buying process at a conventional dealer where you must bargain with scum, so I paid Scion a special attention. Unfortunately, starting at around 2010 Scion’s “pure price” is higher than “impure” price in the same showroom, even if you do not stoop to the dealer level and pay MSRP (e.g. xD vs Yaris). Now the tC does not have a Toyota equivalent, so it’s not as noticeable, but I do suspect that pricing at Scion has something to do with its sales. Back when xB was good, the prices were quite competitive (I’m talking 2005).

    • 0 avatar

      It is 21st century. Nobody forces you to buy car directly from dealership. Go through True Car or Costco instead. It is much more pleasant experience and no haggling over price or car. Send request through True Car, get bids with VIN, visit websites and check cars by VIN #, choose the best price/value and make appointment next day to come for test drive and if you like it – drive car to home. I’d done it and I like it.

      • 0 avatar
        alsorl

        True car and Costco is changing auto purchasing and I think it will keep changing. Costco had over 550,000 autos sold via their purchase program last year. It is extremely ignorant not to check auto prices on true car even if you don’t use there program to purchase an auto. You can just put in different zip codes to check prices on the same car.

      • 0 avatar
        turboprius

        Everyone seems to forget about the original: USAA.

        My parents bought both the Rogue and the RAV4 through the USAA car buying program. Didn’t need to for the MPV, since Jim Ellis was desperate to sell those things! Dropped the price about three, four grand. I like TrueCar a lot more, because 1: The deals seem better and 2: I don’t have to log in to my parents’ USAA account to see the deals. USAA is still a good alternative though, and when we buy the fourth car next year, we’ll probably go through them again (even though the last two dealers we ended up at were awful).

      • 0 avatar

        If you go through TrueCar you still buy from a dealership. What’s more, you add $300. to the dealer’s cost of the vehicle. I don’t think TruceCar is particular transparent about that, are they?

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          What about things like USAA and Costco pricing?

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            No doubt the buyer also will pay the commission for the bird-dogging USAA and Costco do, but they have have their captive members of USAA and Costco to offer to the member-dealers who agree to the terms.

            And that may ultimately be what it is all about; the number of potential sales, because of the captive members.

            Anyone who has ever bought through USAA or Costco most likely had the best buying experience they ever had. And word-of-mouth spreads quickly!

        • 0 avatar

          I am ready to pay $300 and use my laptop only to buy a car rather than dealing with thugs in sleazy dealership and fight them to the death for hours and still loose to professionals who do it that in daily basis as part of their job. Two hours of my life cost more than $300.

      • 0 avatar

        Thanks for the tip. Until now I thought that Costco program was a reference program for local dealerships.

        P.S. A quick look at the website discovered that Costco program has odd line-up gaps. For example, Honda Fit is not available.

        • 0 avatar
          Russycle

          When I bought my Element through Costco, the C-RV was not available through them. It was a new model, and Honda was selling every one they could build without discounting, so they had no incentive to sell through Costco. Don’t know if that’s true of the Fit.

        • 0 avatar

          I prefer True Car over Costco – I got mode bids from True Car with lower prices than from Costco. But my friend chose to go with Costco. We are both happy with what we got. I got exactly what I wanted including color and all options. There was only one car in Bay Area and I got it for 6 grands below MSRP. May be nobody wanted it but I wanted that exact car. It was February though and dealerships had a trouble moving metal. I do not care how much dealerships pay to True car or Costco for the privilege, it is not my business. May be dealers are not happy but for me is more important that I am happy. Actually Internet manager who was handling the sale looked very happy when I told him that I am buying a car during test drive. So everybody seems were happy may be except of dealership owner, but I did not meet him so I don’t know. No matter how much research you do you have a little idea for how much certain dealer will be ready to depart with the particular car. There are too many factor to take into account.

    • 0 avatar
      Quentin

      xD comes with the Corolla 1.8L and the Yaris comes with a 1.5L. The xD is basically the big engine version of the Yaris. The xB is a big engine version of the Corolla (but boxy wagon and why they left the AZ engine in there instead of the excellent AR and 6AT combo, I’ll never know). The tC is a big engine Corolla coupe (2.5L AR instead of the 1.8L ZR). The FR-S has no Toyota counterpart. So, there really isn’t any redundancy as far as the Scion lineup goes. Think of it like the Camry I4 versus V6 volume. Scion has the same problem versus their in house competition. They have higher prices and bigger, less efficient engines than the Toyotas across the showroom. Looking at that perspective, I’d expect that the Scions would sell at 10% or less of their Toyota “equivalents” considering they have bigger engines, higher prices, and less mainstream shapes (coupe)/styling (boxy hatches).

  • avatar
    JEFFSHADOW

    SCION was introduced just about the time Saturn had its “ION” line of committee-designed cars. Just as Saturn was beginning its downward spiral, Scion was taking off, and at Saturn’s expense. Kia and Hyundai were still perceived as POS (as they are today by most of the young buyers).
    I seem to recall that most of the Scions were built on excess Echo platforms (another junkpile they could not give away!) and so are basically sub-Corollas.
    The average Corolla driver is a road blocker; look around and you’ll agree. Oh, no, not another Corolla lowlife!!

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I rented an Echo once and hated every minute of it, but in fairness there are 300K mile’d examples so somebody must have liked driving them.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        I don’t know if the Echo or Yaris is the WORST new car (of the last 4 years or so) I’ve either driven or been a passenger in, but it was close.

        In fact, as part of my mind’s subconscious coping mechanism to deal with traumatic events, my memory has blurred the line in terms of recalling which was which.

        It’s hard to fathom that Toyota has fallen so hard and fast. The founder of Toyota would never have allowed such utter pieces of total and complete sh!t to have been manufactured at any price nor given any market conditions, at least not within 1 million light years of being badged or perceived as Toyota products.

        The original JDM 15 horsepower Toyodas had better quality and craftsmanship than either the Echo or Yarshit.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        don’t know if the Echo or Yaris is the WORST new car (of the last 4 years or so) I’ve either driven or been a passenger in, but it was close.

        In fact, as part of my mind’s subconscious coping mechanism to deal with traumatic events, my memory has blurred the line in terms of recalling which was which.

        It’s hard to fathom that Toyota has fallen so hard and fast. The founder of Toyota would never have allowed such utter pieces of total and complete crap to have been manufactured at any price nor given any market conditions, at least not within 1 million light years of being badged or perceived as Toyota products.

        The original JDM 15 horsepower Toyodas had better quality and craftsmanship than either the Echo or Yarcrap.

    • 0 avatar

      A Corolla is a “Low Life?” Really? And Corolla drivers?

      Name any car that isn’t “committee designed.”

      Saturn’s downward spiral? When did it ever succeed?

      Young buyers support KIA in droves.

      One day young buyers won’t be young any more and they will actually buy vehicles with gross profit in them.

  • avatar
    gearhead77

    The original Xb was the only truly unique car in the line-up and even it wasn’t that unique. But it made a presence, it was inexpensive and it was a hit with people who dug the funky box on wheels and the utility provided. Most Xb drivers(both gens) I’ve seen are well over 40, the same with Kia’s Soul. But at least Kia saw what was going on with Scion not to create a niche brand for a niche car.

    The Xa was a repackaged Echo, but so was the Xb. But the Xb looked “fun” not just another lowly economy car. Then they ruined the Xb in the second generation, the Soul came about and the Tc should have been a Toyota, as should the FR-S. Scion should just be retired or revamped. Like nothing leave without the full TRD treatment or make Scion like AMG, a tuning arm for all Toyotas.

    I recently had a rental Soul, which I was really surprised with. My last experience with an Xb was one of the release editions with all the TRD gear. Not a fan of the driving dynamics of the Soul, but it was better than the Scion and way more refined. But not as much as the rental Chevy Sonic I had the next day.

  • avatar
    eggsalad

    It probably doesn’t help that their two bread-and-butter cars, the xB and xD, are 6-year-old designs. (Not that they were that great in the first place.)

    If I wanted to replace my xB1 with an xB2 (I don’t), I would find a low-mileage 2008-2012 model, because it’s virtually the same as a new one.

  • avatar
    ravenchris

    If Scion could roll together a low or no down payment 60 month loan package that included the car, all required maintenance and came in under $???
    What do you think the magic number would be?
    And to whom do you think it would appeal to?

  • avatar
    Xeranar

    The discussion never gets old but every time we have it we mind as well bring it up. Scion has and continues to have only niche market cars. Bring over a corolla with flare and they’ll sell 150K units each year. In fact if you look at the individual name plates that outsell them they’re all mainstream models (Mid-size, compact, SUVs, and a full-size sedan).

    The real trick for Scion is that their cost overhead is minimal, most of their models are produced in the home market for customers that make the platforms viable and they’re going to stick it out with scion here hoping to find a magic niche car that can unload extra factory capacity. Having fewer Scion outlets in markets isn’t a huge deal to them because if they only move 35K units a year of niche products it’s better than moving none.

    If Toyota wanted a niche brand that sold well they would be going back down the road GM did and everybody here resented. They could easily turn Scion into Pontiac and just offer a nearly-full line up of vehicles with high performance parts and keep the FR-S as a quasi-sports car. But that isn’t the goal with the sub-brand, it’s just to lure in younger customers, try out niche market cars, and basically be a rolling test bed of things that if they fail Toyota can distance their own brand name from.

    • 0 avatar
      NoGoYo

      Well hopefully the Scion version of the Auris turns out pretty good.

      If I were in the market for a compact hatch I’d definitely be cross-shopping the Scion Auris and the Focus.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    I’m pretty sure scion is turning into the ricer brand of choice. Good for Honda, not so great for Toyota. Majority of the weedeater sounds I hear seem to come from the two door potato shaped car they have.

  • avatar

    dunno how the twits expect to sell the fr-s if they won’t let potential customers test drive the bloody thing. i had the money in my pocket and was interested but there’s no way i’ll buy a car just cuz some car magazine hack says so – i want to drive the thing myself. a test drive won’t teach you much about the car but it’s still better than buying on faith ….

    • 0 avatar
      brenschluss

      This is either per-dealer or they didn’t like the way you look, because I was unceremoniously tossed the keys twice last summer to drive both the Scion and Subaru.

      If you really want one, I’d recommend seeking it out but personally, I drove a WRX immediately afterwards and that was the end of that.

  • avatar

    The brand name Scion itself is silly. It is like to rename Toyota brand to Ancestor.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    At one point in the mid ’80s, “Corolla” was basically its own brand. There was a fwd coupe, awd wagon, the sedan and a hot hatch. All with a very different look. Today Toyota needs to milk that nameplate for all it’s worth.

    At first consumers thought Scion was a cool new brand with Toyota drivetrains so you couldn’t lose. You’d get Toyota reliability without crappy Toyota service. Eventually people find out its a Toyota in every sense. So why pay more for an obscure brand with less resale value?

    Consumers knew there was a GM connection with Saturn, but thought they were better cars with better service. Besides cool and knew. That wore off by the time they figured out they’re just Chevys that you pay more for.

    So kill the Scion name and brand them all Corollas .

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      Oldsmobile tried to turn the Cutlass name into a mini-marque at about the same time too: Cutlass Ciera, Cutlass Calais, Cutlass Supreme, etc. Didn’t really work at all; just confused customers as to which Cutlass they were supposed to be buying.

      • 0 avatar
        DenverMike

        Cutlass was overused. And abused. Great nameplate at one time. As was LeBaron. That was actually a greater name than any of the crappy cars it was glued to, ’80s+.

  • avatar

    RE: “Thanks for the tip. Until now I thought that Costco program was a reference program for local dealerships.”

    That’s exactly what it is. Auto OEMs don’t sell directly to fleets, rental companies, Costco, or USAA.

    Internet leads cost the dealer money, as well. A dealer might buy 25 leads at $30. to get one sale. Do the math.

  • avatar

    RE: “Consumers knew there was a GM connection with Saturn, but thought they were better cars with better service.”

    What a difference a single word can make. The fact is a FEW consumers thought SATURNs were better cars, not enough to make the brand viable.

    RE: “That wore off by the time they figured out they’re just Chevys that you pay more for.”

    So when were they just “Chevys you paid more for?”

  • avatar

    RE: “No new auto manufactures have made it in decades. I’m not betting on Tesla. But I like its style.”

    Well put! My thinking exactly, although I think the name will last while the business model will morph!

  • avatar

    RE: “Saddam sold oil. Iran wants to. The US doesn’t care who sells it. Same with oil companies.”

    Of course Saddam sold oil. So does Iran. Iran does more than want to sell oil.

    Is there a point here?

  • avatar

    RE: “I am ready to pay $300 and use my laptop only to buy a car rather than dealing with thugs in sleazy dealership and fight them to the death for hours and still loose to professionals who do it that in daily basis as part of their job. Two hours of my life cost more than $300.”

    So who sells you the car? Where do you pick it up? Where do you do the paperwork? Who does the warranty work on it? What happens, if at some point, dealerships decide they no longer want to cooperate with Costco, USAA, TrueCar? Their business only has value as long as there is gross profit in it. Dealers are experiencing a situation where most of their deals are so called “special deals” or “plus business.” What happens when they’ve had enough? We saw dealers rise up against TrueCar a few years ago. Seems it cost TC about $76. million and delayed their IPO. Dealers figured out they have power if they band together. There are some dealer vendors walking a fine line at the moment. TrueCar is one of them.

  • avatar

    RE: “I’m not in the market for a car like the Avalon but I am in it’s demographic and, trust me, when people of my generation were in their 20s they weren’t buying new cars, either. Thus has it always been.”

    Yes!! Its about time that is recognized. There are some who want to turn auto retail upside down to satisfy a group who will eventually be a BIG factor in the auto market. By the time they reach that point, their preferences and habits will have changed. They will have, by necessity, learned how the business world works. In the meantime, the demographic of most value to both auto OEMs and dealers remains the Boomers, followed by Gen X. The the actual value of new vehicles purchased by Gen Y and Millennials pales in comparison. Those vehicles tend to be low margin to both auto OEMs and dealers.


Back to TopLeave a Reply

You must be logged in to post a comment.

Subscribe without commenting

Recent Comments

New Car Research

Get a Free Dealer Quote

Staff

  • Contributing Writers

  • Jack Baruth, United States
  • Brendan McAleer, Canada
  • Marcelo De Vasconcellos, Brazil
  • Vojta Dobes, Czech Republic
  • Matthias Gasnier, Australia
  • W. Christian 'Mental' Ward, Abu Dhabi
  • Mark Stevenson, Canada
  • Cameron Aubernon, United States
  • J Emerson, United States