By on April 1, 2014

2014-RAM-1500-Eco-Diesel-Exterior-001

For the first time since 1999, Ram trucks outsold Chevrolet in a monthly sales period, with Ram edging out the bowtie brand by just 285 trucks.

With 42,532 trucks sold in March, Ram just edged out Chevy’s 42,247 trucks, but lagged Ford, which moved just under 71,000 F-Series trucks.

GM spokesman Jim Cain issued a rather acid-tongued statement to Automotive News, telling the trade paper

“The 1980s called. They want their marketing strategy back…It’s really easy to deeply discount your truck, mine the subprime market and offer cheap lease deals to buy market share.”

Although I am a dubious authority figure when it comes to withholding sharply worded responses, I can’t help but wince when I see this quote by Cain, as well as his other comments about the Chevrolet Colorado rendering other trucks “obsolete”. Clearly, things aren’t going well over in GM’s truck department, but reacting with a response best left for a “deep background” conversation at a Detroit-area watering hole only serves to further telegraph that fact.

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125 Comments on “QOTD: Ram Beats Chevrolet For The First Time Since 1999, GM Gets Pouty...”


  • avatar
    Hummer

    GM’s response is laughable at best, they have a brand new truck and are using incentives themselves. RAM just put out a brand new engine that gets 28 mpg highway, with a massive premium at that, GM’s excuse doesn’t float.

    The only innovative technology on the new Silverado’s are the 6.2, which in my opinion render the 5.3 useless. The new trucks look like they were styled by art majors that have never worked a day in their lives. They look terrible, have the premium of a German luxury brand, and offer nothing innovative for the traditional truck buyer.
    Bring back the GMT 400 and GMT 800 stylist, anyone that had any major part in the design of the new trucks need to be moved to janitorial status.

    • 0 avatar
      alsorl

      Ditto on all that you stated. And GM has the balls to charge that price with it being made in Mexico, WTF ? After taking it for a test drive, it should be one of the least expensive full size pickups. Start by repricing at $15,000 off, at it still will look out classed by the Dodge and Ford products.

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        I’ve always tried to look past that stupid mess GM has done, have always liked the trucks, but there is no way to seriously defend these trucks, they’re absolute garbage, I’m sorry but in the real world, the GMT800 “cheap” interior suits truck buyers. The heavy use of “styling” on the interior is terrible, it’s not aimed at truck buyers. Truck buyers are different than the average buyer of the price range, in that most of us know how to work on our vehicles and have enough experience to tell if something is cheap, and give a good estimate of how long components will last. The K2XX are aimed at car buyers that want the “pretty”. Truck buyers buy on Price; who has what I’m looking for? – whether you want fuel economy or power, all 3 make a vehicle that offers either of those qualities. The next step is to see whose cheapest, they all perform the same task, so as long as the product has good quality then price is the biggest selling factor. Which these trucks fail miserably at.

        Let me go on another rant, If GM ever decides to come around, and offer an actual truck, not a multimedia tall moving device, then please get rid of the POS fullsize SUV’s and directly copy the truck rear doors forward, as an BoF SUV should be. GM’s insistence on stating that the new SUV’s shared no common panels with the pickups proves they are without a doubt out of touch with US buyers in general.

        My .02

    • 0 avatar
      Detroit-X

      “The new trucks look like they were styled by art majors that have never worked a day in their lives.”

      That’s so descriptive and true, and they obviously never owned a truck before, either. GM’s careening executive decisions of incompetence is scary. Here’s their primary cash cow and they muffed it. Hate the bigger wheels and smaller/lower seats. Ghetto bling and gimmicks-a-plenty to feed the $100/hr dealership technicians. Who asked for this?

    • 0 avatar
      matador

      The new GM trucks stink in design! The only somewhat useful idea is the steps for the rear bumper.

      Trucks are supposed to be for work, not “connectivity”. I own a 1987 Chevrolet R10- it does what I need- haul stuff and tow other stuff. We need trucks for this type of work, not to replace BMW’s and Audi’s.

      I like the RAM styling and am fine with the F150 styling. GM should take a look at the GMT900 and the 1999-2002 Silverado. Update those, and it would be good enough.

      Truck buyers are like the commercial van purchasers for the most part. Styling isn’t really all that important. But, please, try not to screw it up.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    Somebody get a ruler, apparently Mr. Cain wants a measuring contest…

  • avatar
    seth1065

    How fast can GM restyle their cash cow, this looks like a dud

  • avatar
    canddmeyer

    I owned the latest Ram until I had to give it up due to a divorce. Jim Cain should drive a Ram to see firsthand what GM is doing wrong. Hint: the 4.3 & 5.3 aren’t cutting it and the 6.2 can’t be had for less than $55,000, meanwhile the Hemi kicks butt. GM’s interior, and Chevy’s exterior, is bugly while the Ram is gorgeous.

    • 0 avatar
      PrincipalDan

      http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/04/the-ram-express-cheap-fast-good/

      Perhaps a few “Silverado Express” to generate some interest. Although Chevy doesn’t know how to sell something with a big motor for cheap, the’d never let a 6.2 V8 low option truck out of the skunk works.

    • 0 avatar
      mcarr

      This is it right here. RAM offers their big V8 and has an 8-speed transmission. Can’t get either on a Silverado right now, and you will only be able to get a 6.2 on the top of the line version. It’s idiotic.

      I will be in the market for a new truck in the next year, and even though I have $3,000 on my GM card, I’ll be looking at RAM because they have the features I want.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        The 10 speed should hit the F150 in the late summer of 2015. Since its a joint project with GM, it’ll eventually go into the Silverado. I just don’t know when.

        • 0 avatar
          Dan

          GM has had a badass truck motor to put all talk of transmissions to rest in the 6.2 since early 2006. They just haven’t figured out that to sell a $35,000 truck with it, they first need to actually put it in a $35,000 truck. They put it in $70,000 Escalades, they put it in the $55,000 press fleet trucks, in the real world the old one barely existed and the new (and even badasser than before) one is even more irrelevant.

          New parts coming in 2015 aren’t the issue, the issue is being too stupid to use the parts they have now. It’s as if they literally don’t want sales.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Well yeah, I was just speaking to the 8-speed issue. GM doesn’t have a truck transmission over 6-speeds right now. I honestly don’t know if its profitable for GM to sell the 6.2L in a $30K or $35K truck.

            For now, you can get the Ford 6.2L in the XLT, but the cheapest combination stickers for $37K. Its a $7K option that won’t be in the 2015 F150. Ford can get by because the 5.0L and 3.5EB have been great sellers. I would also bet that there will be a bigger/higher HP engine in the F150 after the first year. It may be an uprated Coyote or a bigger Coyote.

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            “I honestly don’t know if its profitable for GM to sell the 6.2L in a $30K or $35K truck.”

            The cost to produce the 6.2L versus the 5.3L would be negligibile as the commonality between the engines is extremely high. The motivation to move more 4.3L and 5.3L trucks is likely related to CAFE averages in this case.

          • 0 avatar
            Dan

            I don’t believe GM’s 6.2 is significantly, or at all, more expensive to build than the 5.3. All it is is a different bore size and tune. Deciding it only goes in top end trucks is pure marketing decision.

            Ford’s two cam 6.2 is certainly cheaper to build than the four cam 5.0 and even more so their 3.5, probably even cheaper than the 3.7 base V6. Placing it as the premium half ton option is pure marketing, they have no trouble putting them in stripper Super Dutys for $10,000 less.

            The difference is Ford has another satisfyingly powerful option in the 3.5 and they’ll put it in pretty much any truck on the lot for a thousand bucks.

            Differences like those are why GM failed and Ford didn’t.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Danio-

            That makes sense since Ford is all together dropping the 6.2L in the F150, and it doesn’t cost much more to make than the 5.0L. I love that engine for towing.

            GM is also charging a premium for the 6.2L because they can get it and it makes the truck that much more profitable.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Dan-

            I forgot that the Ford 6.2L is two cam. They are just raking in the cash every time someone selects that engine on the F150.

        • 0 avatar
          mcarr

          So maybe by 2016 they’ll get their act together. GM launched the GMT900′s in 2007 with the 4-speed, and the 6-speed didn’t bow until 2009, so it looks like the standard GM launch playbook. Leave off features so there’s something to build excitement 2 years after a new model release. I waited around for the 2009. Don’t know if I’ll be waiting this time.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            They all do stuff like that. I’m suprised Ford has the 2.7L Ecoboost ready for the F150 launch. They love to hold over engines for a year. In most of their recent launches though, they have had engines that were not previously available in that model.

    • 0 avatar
      NMGOM

      Looks like 1996 all over again.
      That’s the year of Ram 1500 that I currently own, — and love the thing.
      Back then, Chevy didn’t have a prayer by any measure; and Ford was an option, but had no manual transmission.

      —————–

  • avatar
    ajla

    Why is Jim Cain such a jerk?

    Maybe his public style of talk is supposed to be refreshing or otherwise appeals to some people, but I personally just find it juvenile and it makes me embarrassed to be a long-time GM owner.

    Seriously, tons of recalls and Congressional hearings meanwhile this guy decides to get snarky about RAM?

  • avatar
    Lorenzo

    Well, the CEO is busy with Congress, and there just might be a bit of an on-edge atmosphere everywhere inside GM right now. They should be more careful about kicking up dust in the silver silos, since a little spark could be catastrophic.

  • avatar
    86er

    Looks like American buyers are starting to mimic Canadian buying habits in the truck market.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      86er, I believe it’s more along the lines of American buyers are beginning to realize that RAM is a lot more innovative, revolutionary and in tune with their buyers than GM is.

      RAM sells extremely well with the 5.7 and 8-speed while it attracts NEW truck buyers with the V6-equipped version. People who have never owned a truck before are taking note of the V6 RAM because they do not want the complexity and possible issues with Ford’s Ecoboost. Nor do they want the V6-equipped GM trucks with their dated look, drab interiors and possible future recall issues.

      But for those who can, there’s always the exquisite 5.7 Tundra. The problem with Toyota, everything is overpriced and costs a premium. Most people simply do not want to pay for that exclusivity.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        The V6 RAM has a traditional V6 competitor from Ford. Its not like the 3.7L isn’t available. Ford does need a new transmission to match RAM. That’ll hopefully happen for the 2016 F150.

        The other thing that is happening is that the RAM is cheaper than the Dart on a lease. At least in these parts. GM can’t compete price wise with RAM or on the top end with Ford.

        • 0 avatar
          Dan

          Dodge puts their V6 in retail grade trucks. Try to find a F-150 with the 3.7 that isn’t a 2WD XL, in white.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Fair. I’ve only bought for fleet lately anyway. The left over 2013 Chevrolets were the best deal, so I purchased those.

            If I was buying a truck for myself, it would be a F150 FX4 with either the 5.0 or 3.5. I’d love a King Ranch or Platinum, but I could never justify the price.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          Yup, I know that the 3.7 is still available but Ford isn’t selling all that many of them, probably because it is long in the tooth.

          Leasing a truck can be murder at the end of the lease if the truck is used for anything other than the daily commute, or just to look good parked somewhere.

          One of my buds leased a Chevy Worktruck years back for his business (because he could not get a loan to buy one) and they emptied his wallet with over $3K in repair charges for dings and scratches that would normally be considered Fair Wear and Tear, if he owned the truck.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            People lease them in place of a car. I can’t swing a dead cat around the working class Detroit suburbs without hitting a Red Wings edition RAM.

            I agree with the business lease though. Never ever would I do it based on what I can get work trucks for on a 36 month loan. Almost always 0% and under $18k. I wait for incentives and model change over though.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Yah, ultimately, you gotta do what works for you. Those are the realities of real-world living.

            I’m pretty sure that the 2015 or 2016 truck I buy will be the last one in my lifetime. So I’m going to splurge on that one with the view that it will last me for the remainder of my driving life.

            I see people older than I am around me doing the same thing. One guy just bought a Lexus LS460 for his wife (in her seventies). He is driving a King Ranch F350 TurboDiesel (he’s a Traveling Elk) and is in his late seventies.

            My wife’s dad, at age 88, just bought his last Suburban to replace the ’73
            Suburban he drove until the wheels fell off. They’ve got other cars and trucks but that Suburban is his personal ride.

            I hope to be able to do the same, as in splurge on our last vehicles. My wife and I are not LS460 people so for her it will most likely be a Sequoia. And for me, hopefully, a Tundra 5.7 4dr 4×4.

            It will be the first and last time in our lives we will be shopping from the high-priced side of the dealership, getting exactly what we want, price be damned.

          • 0 avatar
            Lou_BC

            IIRC the 3.7 is in 14% of F150′s.

          • 0 avatar

            Trade in would be affected too on ownership with damage. Leasing isn’t wise for work trucks. If he couldn’t afford the buy he should have gone for a used one that is 4-6 years old.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Frantz, in the work he did and I used to do it is imperative to have something that is dependable because if your 4-6 year old used ride breaks down, you can’t make any money if you don’t have transportation.

            He couldn’t get a loan because he had no credit history, due to he never borrowed money, had no debts and preferred to pay cash as he went along in his life.

            My best friend recently showed me his 826 FICO score on his Discovercard bill. We both laughed since he has no debts, no loans, pays cash for everything, and has been doing so for more than 29 years.

            But with a pension and social security income of less than $24K a year, it is highly doubtful that he could qualify for any kind of substantial loan since he uses up all of his income just to live.

            So the FICO score may tell us his outstanding creditworthiness but his total annual income tells us that he practically indigent in this day and age after subtracting the cost for the necessities of life and medications.

            Such was the case with my buddy who leased the Chevy WT. The lease company was willing to lease because ownership remained with them.

            As it was, he did very well with his work contracts, satisfied the complete lease and paid cash for a left-over 2013 Silverado.

            All’s well that ends well.

    • 0 avatar
      alsorl

      Canadian drivers love there Dodge and Chrysler products. They have yet to drink the koolaid of the Toyoda lovers. Facts are greater then perception for the educated.

  • avatar
    Jason Lombard

    “…It’s really easy to deeply discount your truck, mine the subprime market and offer cheap lease deals to buy market share.”

    Should have said:

    “…It’s really easy to deeply discount your truck, mine the subprime market and offer cheap lease deals to buy market share. We should know, we’ve been doing it for years.”

  • avatar
    Nicholas Weaver

    Has he actually, you know, testdriven the competition?

    I contemplated getting a truck, and testdrove all 3 (Ram w V6, Chevy V8, Ford). I’d much rather get the Ram over the Chevy: no odd steering wheel angle, a nice V6/8 speed combination (300hp and fuel economy which equals my Mazda6? Deal!), and just in general a nicer experience.

    Not to mention the tradesman trim level model: Put the useful stuff (tow hitch, bed liner, etc) that make a truck well, useful, on the base model.

    • 0 avatar
      Onus

      The tradesman is my favorite trim level. I love a good no bs truck. But, for now i’m all set with my stripped out old f250. Can do everything i can tow legally town here in CT, and haul way more weight than i’ll ever need ( It’s got upgraded leaf springs with overloads which is rare for this era 250 ).

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    Rams are by no means cheap, but at least they don’t charge an arm and a leg like Chevy. The kid down the block sells better lemonade at lower prices, wonder why your sales drop?

  • avatar
    Johnny Canada

    I’m part of that statistic – I purchased a new 1500 Ram in March. 5.7 Litre with the Torqueflite 8 speed. I never even considered cross shopping a Chevrolet.

  • avatar
    Atum

    As if GM couldn’t be in a worse state, this suddenly came along.

    Shoutout to mah boy Ricky, who was in charge and knew that the Cobalts had ignition problems when they first came out. Surprised I haven’t heard mentions of him yet.

  • avatar
    Loser

    I looked at a new GMC, not a bad truck. The steering wheel seemed off center to me. If I was in the truck market right now the Dodge would most likely be my pick.

    • 0 avatar
      rudiger

      Combined with the sticker-shock, the off-center steering wheel in the new GM trucks is a deal-breaker. If they can’t get something that rudimentary and basic correct, what else have they gotten wrong that you can’t see? Then to have the ‘nads to charge a premium for it? Epic fail.

      Ford trucks seem to be having some issues, too.

      It’s an amazing thing to say, considering Chrysler’s reputation, but Ram is the way to go for anyone in the market for a new, full-size truck.

  • avatar
    VCplayer

    Things are only going to get harder on Chevy and probably GMC unless Ford completely blows the F-150 launch, which seems unlikely.

    Ford and Chrysler have figured out: you have to set the bar with your launch, otherwise you have a product that treads water for 5–6 years. The fact that GM already announced a “me too!” aluminum truck doesn’t give me any confidence that they’re learning from this.

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @VCplayer – not really.

      GM was looking at aluminum in 2007/8 for their 1/2 tons. Bankruptcy and a crap economy killed those plans.

      There is a 5-6 year lag time between initial renderings and final production.

      No copying, just a mismanaged company trying to release a competitive truck.

      GM went on the premise that truck buyers do not like change and are conservative in nature……… that used to be the case but Ford and Ram have proven the opposite. Ford with the EB3.5 and Ram with coil springs.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Where is Z71_Silvy?

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      He’s out looking to trade his Silvy for a RAM.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      Reading Cain’s talking points and figuring out how he can work “Egoboost” into a post.

    • 0 avatar
      gsf12man

      Face buried in pillow, weeping.

    • 0 avatar
      Ion

      Busy trying to figure out how to blame the Cruze’s axle recall on its drivers or Ford.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      No, no, he’s with Norm at Area 51 investigating whether or not there is an alien conspiracy to sabotage GM in order to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

      • 0 avatar
        nrd515

        No no, it’s not our precious bodily fluids they are trying to sap and impurify! The aliens, with help from the secret (actual) government, has been putting nanobots in our food, and with those nanobots, they are secretly rewiring our brains so that when the time comes, the alien overlords can simply “flip the switch”, and make us into totally obedient drones.

        Or, the government, no, not the alien controlled one, is taking and copying our brains, putting the real one under cyro-storage deep underneath Denver, and putting the 90% as good copy back into us, and repeating the process. The brains always used for this are only the “special” ones. The regular dopes don’t have to be worried about this happening to them at all. Just the really smart people. This by the way, is the cause of all the “autism” and “Alzheimer’s” that is happening now.

        Both of these are the claims of a friend of mine’s daughter, who has severe schizophenia. At 19, she was going to be a doctor, and now, at 34, her main accomplishment is to see how many cigarettes she can smoke. On her meds, she still shows a little of the brilliant kid she was.

  • avatar
    dartman

    Nothing wrong with the Chevys. I’ve bought 12-18 in the last 5 years. Very reliable, decent economy but they begin to feel junky after 3-5 years 150k miles. I currently have one 2007 Silverado at 258k that doesn’t burn a drop of oil, shifts great and will probably make 500k if I wanted, (but I wont)- no major repairs. I have bought 6 Rams in the last year and can you tell why Chevys getting their ass kicked: price/value. Hemi and a 8 speed trumps a 5.3 and 6 speed everyday. You just get more truck for your buck from Ram, plus initial quality is outstanding. Fyi–I personally drive a 2007 Tundra with a 5.7 and 144k thats still tighter than a dick’s hatband.

  • avatar
    StudeDude

    It’s good to see this much love for the Ram—-the Dodge Boys did a real nice job in the redesign under trying circumstances and continue to only improve the product with the 8spd trans, the Pentastar V6 and the 1500 diesel option. I hope they get back into the smaller truck market so they can show up Chevy there as well.

  • avatar
    MrGreenMan

    Ram has the old Dodge value proposition on their cheap fun model, and it has a value proposition on fuel economy, and it has a value proposition for the urban cowboy, and it’s got its own Super Lux version.

    Ford has a value proposition on people who do work with their truck, and it has famous Super Lux versions.

    The Tacoma has a small truck value proposition. The Tundra is adrift.

    The Silverado is adrift, and, with the recalls, I’m sure people wonder how much better they’ll look in the upscale Sierra when it kills them by having the steering fail and the engine coast down to nothing while moving 10,000 pounds on a mountain, because that’s what it looks like you’re supposed to do with them from the ads. GMC would probably finally differentiate on the GM recall list as the “no brakes” model.

    • 0 avatar
      dts187

      I agree on the value proposition for the cheap, fun model. I picked up a Ram Express RCSB 4×4 last September. Big motor, short wheelbase, tons of fun, and under $28k out the door with some decent options.

      It still works as a truck too. I’m in the middle of a renovation and this thing has hauled countless loads of lumber, drywall, and furniture. Not to mention the dozens of trips to the dump.

  • avatar

    I freely admit that I’m entirely clueless about trucks, but my acquaintances who were driving pickups for years say that contemporary Ram is a quite okay truck (one bought a Tundra though). They also have some kind of diesel deal going on, which Chevy is not matching, apparently.

  • avatar
    Austin Greene

    GM’s solution is in a big ole wooden box with the words 4.5 Duramax stencilled on it.

    Now they just gotta go to that warehouse at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark and get that box outta there.

  • avatar
    Beerboy12

    I would be interested to know what percentage of Ram’s sold are that new small diesel.

    • 0 avatar
      EquipmentJunkie

      Me, too. Currently it’s too early to tell since the pipeline (dealer lots) is not yet full. However, dealers placed orders for 8,000 diesels in the first few days that the option was available.
      I would definitely check that option box.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    If GM can’t get their trucks right, put a bullet in GM right now. Trucks are the only thing they’re good for. Should be priority #1. Awesome Corvette though!

    • 0 avatar
      Lou_BC

      @DenverMike – true. 2018 for the “next gen” is a long time away especially if most of the GM brass spends most of those 4 years before congress or in court.

  • avatar
    Xeranar

    285 trucks in a market that shilled nearly 150K/month worth is literally a drop in the bucket. Over the course of a year that’s roughly 3500 trucks in a market worth 1.5-1.6 MILLION. Call me when that number reaches 5-10K a month difference. Otherwise this all seems to be a bunch of hoopla with a standard PR response to try and equate the advance as class politics.

    Overall though it seems like Ram made a nice truck and that maybe they’ll be able to shill more in the future as that would be beneficial to the Chrysler-Fiat corp.

    • 0 avatar
      Kenmore

      I realize you’re just a mobile playback device for prerecorded political cant and that pointing this out is as hopeless as replying to those “do not reply to this email” emails, but:

      “Shill” is not an exact synonym for “sell”.

    • 0 avatar
      mjz

      The point isn’t that Ram outsold Chevy by only 285 trucks, The point it that RAM OUTSOLD CHEVY. Period. Whether by 1 or 10,000 per month, the number is irrelevant, the event is significant.

      • 0 avatar
        Dave M.

        Exactly. I truly never would have thought.

        Sunday I visited both a Chevy and GMC dealer looking for a used car for the aunt. I’m from the more conservative school of car design, so neither the Silverado or Sierra offend me in their look. But the MSRPs are nuts. I know no one but pure idiots pay MSRP, but just reduce those prices 20% across your line and be more reasonable.

        I think the Ram is mighty fine looking, but I know my brother has had a number of problems with his 2004 2500, including the infamous ‘death wobble’ that Chrysler insists doesn’t exist.

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          “I think the Ram is mighty fine looking, but I know my brother has had a number of problems with his 2004 2500, including the infamous ‘death wobble’ that Chrysler insists doesn’t exist.”

          The “death wobble” isn’t exclusive to Rams, any vehicle with a solid axle up front can be affected by it, it’s a characteristic of that design. Ford had and continues to have steering oscillation issues on the Super Duty trucks as well.

          The fact of the matter is that it’s not a defect, but a characteristic of worn parts. Loose track bar joints, worn out steering dampers, incorrect load rating tires and even incorrect caster settings can cause it.

          • 0 avatar
            EquipmentJunkie

            Agree. I about soiled my armor when my ’98 Wrangler got “death wobble” on a goofy, warped section of asphalt. I chalked it up to a combination of several issues. I never had it since then.

          • 0 avatar
            alsorl

            Death wooble. This is death wooble !

          • 0 avatar
            alsorl

          • 0 avatar

            I think the track bar is the greatest cause in the sense that the damper helps to mitigate it, but it does not cause it. To get caster screwed requires a screwed-up lift usually. Unfortunately on some vehicles the design contributes, e.g. using bolts without a shoulder, which can eat gradually into the slieves.

        • 0 avatar
          nrd515

          I had the “death wobble” in my old Grand Cherokee. Scared the hell out of me the first time. The cure was to make the dealer, even though they insisted endlessly that there was nothing wrong with it, replace the steering stabilizer. Instant cure. The same dealer told me I was the first person who had it and my cure was “the fix” and I got a couple of free oil changes out of it for figuring it out.

  • avatar
    doug-g

    Chevy and GMC have been more “image” trucks since the late 60′s; I realized GM trucks were starting their slide when Chuck Norris swapped his GMC for a RAM during the run of “Walker, Texas Ranger”.

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    On styling alone, I would chose the Ram over the Chevy. It looks like an angry bulldog, but I like that.

    However, I’ve never driven the Ram so I don’t know how it compares to the Chevy…er…Chevrolet (that sounds more upmarket right?) I have had a short time behind the Silverado and the EcoBoost F-150 though and I’ll say that the Silverado felt heavy and loose in all the wrong places and would take the Ford, even though its face is a bit of a mess too.

    All that said, I have no need for a full-size truck and wouldn’t find a way to justify plunking down any money on a new one. Maybe some day when I’m looking for a second vehicle in the heavily used market.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      I’ve had the opportunity to drive all 3, Ford, Ram and Chevy, on a closed course and I can say the difference in ride and handling of the Ram versus the GM trucks is especially noticeable. The Ram has much more nimble handling and compliant ride. Hard stopping is far better in the Ram too. No drama, just a firm stop with maintained directional stability even with significant ABS activity. On the same stop from the same speed, the Silverado axle hopped and the rear actually stepped out a bit.

  • avatar
    Z71_Silvy

    The Ram trucks are fantastic. Easily the best on the road. Best engines, best looking, nicest interior, etc. The new GM twins come close but can’t quite match them. Toyota and Ford aren’t even legitimate in the market anymore. Thank God Ford can rely on fleet sales to help their dishonest sales total.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      I checked out my neighbors new Raptor last summer. The chassis was phenominal, but the body was absolute shit. The tailgate fell apart within the first week. I guess the plastic bushings in the tailgate hinges weren’t up to the job. I thought we were going to break the grill off just opening the hood. The rear door on the crew cab felt like it was made from recycled pie tins when I opened it.

      I have an ’04 GMC with 155K on it and an ’07 Tahoe just shy of a 100K. So I know how GM trucks hold up. Sure the Dodges look good on the dealer lot but let’s see if they run w/GM trucks over the long haul. They haven’t proven themselves yet and for my money GM still builds the best 1/2 ton PU. Anyone that thinks different do what I did in ’04 & ’07 and put your money where your mouth is.

      • 0 avatar

        The entire point of this blog is that more Dodge fans than Chevy fans ARE putting their money where their mouth is….

        • 0 avatar
          Carlson Fan

          Sure Franz, for 1 month. How many PU based 1/2 ton SUVs does RAM sell again?

          • 0 avatar

            I believe the truck based SUV segment is pretty tiny and irrelevant. I sell Fords so I really don’t see either as a threat at this time to overall numbers but to ignore the fact the Ram is making a nice truck is foolish no matter whose fanboy you are. Further the fact that Ram beat Chevy when Gm is on a fresh launch is startling.

          • 0 avatar
            Carlson Fan

            No Franz, that segment isn’t irrelevant, check out sales numbers. You must not live in the US

          • 0 avatar
            sunridge place

            It is a common mistake…saying that Full Size SUV market is irrelevant.

            Full Size Truck SUV market in the US is the same size and transacts around the same price as mid-size luxury segment.

            I don’t hear anyone saying that BMW 5 Series and Mercedes E Class are irrelevant.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The full size SUV market is extremely profitable for both GM and Ford. They sell less units than they used to, but the margins are still amazing. Plus, the large GM SUVs are the best looking GM product in a long time. They look striking on the road.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      GM trucks had better get used to being in 3rd place, before getting killed by the Tundra and eventually the Titan.

      GM may survive all other snafu’s, but without obscenely profitable truck sales, it’s the final chapter for GM. The end is near.

      • 0 avatar
        Carlson Fan

        If you think the end is near for the #2 auto maker in the world you really have your head buried in the sand. I know it is fun for you haters to hope for that, but just as sure as the sun will rise tomorrow you’ll never see them disappear in your lifetime. Even if they go bankrupt again they won’t disappear, they’ll just get bought out by someone who won’t have to deal with trying to make money dragging around the corporate culture of the Ren Cen.

      • 0 avatar
        Dave M.

        I don’t see Toyota snagging #3 (it’s a little…flamboyant, no?), and the new Titan can walk on water but won’t ever catch much more than the bottom of the market.

        10-15 years from now that may be different, just like 10-20 years ago I would have never believed the Ram would beat Chevy.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          There is no way the Tundra could ever nab #3. The reasons are many but the top three reasons are the cost, the cost, the cost.

          $50K+ for a Tundra? And more! There are very few people who are willing to pay that much for a half-ton 4X4 CrewMax pickup truck, but you know what? Toyota is selling every one that they make to a select few lucky buyers who can sprout that much cash.

          Financing one is another matter because most places want at least 20% down of the total, bottom line, amount, depending on a borrowers credit status. Ditto with Leasing it.

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            “Financing one is another matter because most places want at least 20% down of the total, bottom line, amount, depending on a borrowers credit status. Ditto with Leasing it.”

            Putting 20% down on a truck lease certainly seems like an unwise financial move.

            Plus, there are plenty of solid Tundras around for under $35K. Heck, I bet you could get a better price on a comparable Tundra if you are cross-shopping the GM trucks. I just wish Yota would offer a 4.10 rear end on the 4.6L version again. A factory-installed trailer brake controller would be nice too.

          • 0 avatar
            alsorl

            Towing strength is also a downer for the tundra. The Tundra is made for the weekend trip to Lowes or just looking tough sitting up high. MPG is also a loser for Toyota. It will never be in the top three sellers for pickups.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            alsorl, that’s not true about towing strength being a downer in the Tundra. I am hauling and towing the same loads I did when I drove Silverado and F150, before switching to Tundra 5.7.

            And these are not light loads either. My sturdiest trailer is a custom-made three-axle flatbed I use for the heavy stuff, like three pallets of ceramic tile, bags of thinset and grout; that’s pretty heavy stuff.

            And much of the time I have to haul it up the mountain on US82 from an elevation of 4800+ to an elevation of over 9300.

            The Tundra does it better, smoother, and with a lot more finesse than either my Silverado or my F150 did the same job. Fuel economy is also no better nor worse than my previous two trucks.

            The negative stuff you read about the Tundra is driven by jealousy on the part of the owners of other brands because the Tundra clearly is the better engineered truck that every other pickup truck maker had to beat after 2007.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            ajla, my Tundra 5.7 cost me $32,500 before the dealer in El Paso, TX, added on the tt&l.

            By choice my Tundra was a DoubleCab LongBed 2WD SR5 with the factory tow package. I use the same Kelsey-Hayes electric trailer brake controller plumbed into my brake line I used on my previous trucks. Retail MSRP for my Tundra was somewhere around $35K at the time.

            Things have changed with packages and pricing. Paying $50K for any dolled-up truck is no longer uncommon. A lot of older, retired gentlemen are doing just that. They may no longer work or do the heavy hauling with their truck but they do love the luxury of the upscale packages in their later years.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            HDC, I’m not putting down the tundra when I say this but, your C/K1500 was early mid 90s no? F150 was mid 00s correct? A lot has changed for both of those automakers. It would be more tale-worthy if it couldnt keep up with technology that was 5-15 years older then your truck.
            The current fuel-miser ram uses is more powerful than the early 90s chevy you had for goodness sake.

            (Snark below)
            I mean back then chevy and Ford had C-channel frames for goodness sake, that was ancient compared to the strength availible today in 1/2.

          • 0 avatar
            Carlson Fan

            You also noticed that HDC contiually compares his ’88 Chevy against his Toy Tundra. No wonder he thinks it’s such a great truck.

  • avatar
    mcarr

    For all the bashing GM’s new trucks are taking (from me as well), they still are decent trucks with a solid powertrain. I’ve owned a few Silverado’s, my family members have as well, and many have seen 200k+ miles little else than oil, brakes and tires.

    I’m a GM truck guy and I had big hopes for this redesign, and I’m honestly let down. I’ve driven several versions of the ’14 Silverado, and while it’s certainly better than it’s predecessor, it’s not good enough to make me buy it.

    Right now, the only way GM will sell me a truck is if they offer a 6.2 and 8-speed crew cab for under $40k. I’m now waiting to see what they’re going to do with the new HD pickups. If the 6.2 is the standard gas engine, or a completely revamped 6.0, I might consider it. I want nothing to do with a diesel. I don’t think they can afford to blow two truck launches, but I’m not holding my breath.

  • avatar
    tomLU86

    While I personally seep the point of the commenter who noted “bring back the GMT400 and GMT800 truck”, I thought the GMT900 interiors were a good balance between ‘plush’ and ‘truck for work’.

    I think GM is trying hard to outdo the ‘plush’ Ford and Ram interiors, even as I question why all these trucks are so overdone.

    Maybe because that’s what the data manufacturers use tells them to do.

    In any case, I think GM overpriced their new trucks. They should have been MSRP price $200, or hundreds, above the old trucks, NOT thousands. Price is a a big deal. The new trucks are objectively better, but not enough to justify thousands more (appearance is subjective, after all. Some of us think the GMT900s were the best looking of the trucks). The launch with high prices was not a good thing. There is a pattern here–come out with a good, or even great (new Caddy ATS/CTS) product and price it high—just because. Not very smart. A lower price at intro would have been better, get the sales momentum and ‘gotta have it’, and then quietly decontent and/or midly raise the price down the road.

    Despite all that, if I was buying a truck and planning to keep it, I’d buy a GM truck–I think GM’s V8s and hardware will hold up better. I’d certainly buy a Chevy before an “ecoboost” Ford (turbos are not robust) or a Dodge/Ram (look at how many rusty 10-yr old Dodge trucks are out there).

  • avatar
    tomLU86

    And if people want a 6.2 V8 in a cheaper truck, give it to them!

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      What’s your max price for a Silverado with the 6.2L? I’m just curious.

      • 0 avatar
        Dan

        Everyone else stickers around $45,000 for a nicely equipped 4WD crew cab with their good motor. You can knock $5,000 off that if you skip the leather and offroad look packages. There’s nothing special about GM’s truck to justify asking more than that.

        Crest the sticker price hurdle and they then need to address incentives that are around $3,000 short of competitive.

        Fix both of those things and their truck still isn’t any better or cheaper than a Ram but it’s at least good enough to cross shop.

        • 0 avatar
          sunridge place

          So, discount them all $3000 more to try and pick up a few thousand incremental sales?

          Really?

          • 0 avatar
            alsorl

            Drop the GM pickups by 20% to start. Then the toy like interior and cheapness may not look so cheap.

          • 0 avatar
            sunridge place

            In March 2014, sales for trucks went like this:

            Ford= 70,000 ish trucks
            GM= 60,000 ish trucks
            FCA= 42,000 ish trucks

            So, GM should reduce prices on all GM trucks by 20% to try and get some incremental sales to try to beat Ford overall?

            You think that’s a good strategy? Let’s knock 20% off margins of ALL sales in order to incrementally gain a few thousand sales?

            For simplicity sake, lets try that assuming a $10k margin on each truck

            60,000 sales x $10k= $600,000,000 profit

            Lets reduce that margin by 20% and boost sales to Ford’s level shall we?

            70,000 sales x $8k= $560,000,000 profit

            Yay! I’m #1 in sales!!! The internet commenters of the world think I’m great!

            But, you’re making less money overall.

          • 0 avatar
            Carlson Fan

            I think I’ll opt for the first business model and put another $40,000,000 in my pocket!…..LOL

            I have to wonder if the 3 tier strategy has something to do with the pricing of the 1/2 ton trucks. I suspect it does.

          • 0 avatar
            sunridge place

            ‘I have to wonder if the 3 tier strategy has something to do with the pricing of the 1/2 ton trucks. I suspect it does.’

            It does not. The Colorado/Canyon are 8 or 9 months away from beginning to arrive at dealerships. The pricing strategy being used is to make the most amount of money possible on every sale while maintaining enough volume to utilize the factories. Not an uncommon approach in the business world.

  • avatar
    SC5door

    Sitting in the GM’s at the Chicago Auto Show, I expected more….A LOT more from their interior material quality.

    Also the RAM 1500 Express is a heck of a deal. Just select mine with the 8 speed for $500 more.

  • avatar
    NN

    everyone is pi$$ing on GM over the truck launch, and they did play it conservatively, however, their long-term owners may be rewarded with what they’ve done. Ford’s Ecoboost motors and fancy transmissions have durability problems & low real world mpg figures; practically everything Chrysler has ever made also suffers from the same (diesel may be an exception, however FWIW this new diesel is an Italian diesel, not a Cummings, so durability may be closer to older Cherokee diesel than Heavy Duty RAM). GM’s trucks are getting real world 17mpg in mixed driving over at Edmunds’ long term test fleet, which is 30% better than the 2007 Chevy they had. That’s better than my midsize SUV. And by sticking with small blocks and 6-speeds rather than going for the latest and greatest may pay dividends in durability over time. If buying today, I’d likely choose a GM (or diesel Ram, if there wasn’t a massive markup like there will be). I’d like to see what the aluminum F-150 is like, although Ecoboost durability concerns would worry me.

    • 0 avatar
      bball40dtw

      There is not a fancy transmission in the F150. The market has spoken on the Ecoboost V6 in the F150 as well. GM will be going to a 10 speed in a couple years on their trucks, and it will be one that Ford is doing most of the development for. The trade off is that GM is doing more of the development on the 9 speed FWD/AWD transmission.

  • avatar
    philadlj

    More and more the Silverado seems like a case akin to a chef not actually tasting what they were cooking when they were cooking it, to say nothing of tasting what others had made beforehand…even though the meal in question is for a state dinner that could NOT, under any circumstances, be effed up. As for the barb about subprime mining…uhh…GM Financial, Mr. Cain? Pot, meet kettle.

  • avatar
    Superdessucke

    Am I the only one a little insulted at the backhanded dig on the subprime market? Poor people need trucks too you know, sheesh!

  • avatar
    doug-g

    Ford is the “Senior Statesman” in this battle and sits on the sideline, getting up occasionally to laugh all the way to the bank. When you get to Dodge vs Chevy this is pretty much what it boils down to: http://youtu.be/VciQjhgB66k
    We can argue gas vs diesel, etc all day long, but this was one of the most lurid, brutal and humiliating automotive related videos I have seen and I suspect it made some impact in this adolescent competition. I wonder if Jim Cain is mimicking the Chevy driver here and pathetically yelling, “do it again”!


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