By on April 30, 2014

My reluctance to even consider banning or otherwise silencing members of the B&B has become so well-known that a few of you have taken to making fun of me about it. The truth is simply that I value every member of the TTAC community. You’re too valuable to lose, and I try to keep sight of that fact.

Some men, however, you just can’t reach.

Since instituting our no-ban policy, I’ve reached out to six different commenters who consistently strayed past the boundaries of courtesy in their interactions. Five of those six times, I’ve been able to come to an agreement with the individual in question and they’ve been able to keep contributing. However, my conversations with the person known as agenthex and u mad scientist haven’t been as productive as I’d hoped. Therefore, he’s gone as of right now.

I dislike a public hanging nearly as much as the need for it, so in the future we are not going to do a post every time we ban someone. The purpose for this post is simple: I want to apologize to you, the B&B, for my failure to control this person and my failure to redirect his obvious passion for the automotive hobby into a less destructive channel. I’m hoping that this is the last time I do something like this. Thank you for participating at TTAC. You’re all important to us, and to me.

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184 Comments on “Housekeeping: I Don’t Like It Any More Than You Do...”


  • avatar
    Master Baiter

    Yay!

    • 0 avatar

      My sentiments EXACTLY:

      UMadScientist was getting on my nerves…

    • 0 avatar
      Robert Gordon

      “Yay”

      Why? Because he handed you your arse in every debate he had with you?

      • 0 avatar

        YEAH – right up until his termination!

        Sometimes if you just be patient, problems take care of themselves.

      • 0 avatar
        thornmark

        ?????

        He was a fount of misinformation. His use of the “denier” label showed him to be no scientist.

      • 0 avatar
        Master Baiter

        Here was his “argument” technique:

        1. Appeal to authority.
        2. Call the other person stupid.
        3. Mistakenly associate the other person with some other group(s) worthy of his scorn. (Fox News, the GOP, Bible Thumpers, Creationists, etc.)

        Good riddance.

        • 0 avatar
          stuki

          In other words, he paid attention to what was being taught in public school.

        • 0 avatar
          bloke

          Hey, if you choose to wrestle with a pig..

          And frankly, the majority of his comments on the articles that came up on a search of his username were entirely reasonable. Not particularly chummy with mongs who believe stupid stuff like that the Fukushima unfortunate incident would hurt anyone in the US, but if you’re that dumb, you deserve to be mocked.

          Frankly, if you engage with someone like ‘agenthex’ who believes in Catastrophic Global Warming, that’s your own fault. Might be nonsense, might be entirely true, but we know that it won’t affect anywhere important, apart from Texas, and I don’t live in Texas.

    • 0 avatar
      56BelAire

      Thanks Jack. He was a nasty arrogant person. I don’t come to the TTAC comment sections to read “pissing matches”, especially when the pisser never seemed to run out of pis.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    His poppy was just too tall for us

  • avatar
    Toad

    Every house needs a little cleaning now and then. It’s remarkable that there has been only one troll that rose to this level since JB took over. That is a compliment to both the commentators and site managers.

    • 0 avatar
      redav

      It’s kind of strange–the discussion here is both generally more civil than other sites AND contains more stuff that would (should?) get people banned on those other sites.

      As for myself, I wasn’t all that bothered so much by BS’ bans. His trophying afterward was a nuisance, but I typically didn’t miss the people who got the boot. Instead, I missed the missed the people that chose to leave. (There’s probably some profound realization in that somewhere.)

      • 0 avatar

        @ redav: Agree.

        In earlier days, before Robert Farrago cracked down, there were terrible flame wars over non-automotive stuff. After that, it was great to find that I could have civil discussions about automobiles (and occasionally other stuff) with people whose political views were diametrically opposed to my own, without those devolving into flame wars.

        May it stay that way.

  • avatar
    CJinSD

    The only thing I REALLY didn’t see eye to eye with Bertel about was the public culling of the commenting herd. Somehow, this one isn’t bugging me.

  • avatar

    The comments section works best when treated like an actual conversation. If you wouldn’t say it to someone’s face, it’s probably not a good idea to say it online. Talking down to people and insulting them is not a very good way of convincing them that you’re correct.

    If I wasn’t such a firm believer in anonymous free speech, I’d call for people to use real names and not be able to hide behind screennames. I find that when I comment under my own name I tend to be a bit more restrained.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff Waingrow

      Ronnie, you said it perfectly. I know darned well that if/when I shoot the bird at someone while I’m driving, I’m engaged in a pretty cowardly act. I most certainly wouldn’t do it to a person’s face. And I agree about using your real name, which I do. Should this be a requirement here? I’m not sure. The people who identify themselves do, on the whole, seem more diplomatic and polite. (Except for RF, of course!)

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      I just try to follow the “Golden Rule” on here, and if I express what I feel might be enough to piss folks off, I’ll follow-up in the post by saying “just my $0.02–no flames, please.”

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    You know in, what, ten months you haven’t had to wield the ban hammer. This was once a weekly occurrence, so I wouldn’t beat myself up over it. Jack you have accomplished everything you set out to do and I for one admire you for it.

    • 0 avatar
      bloke

      Yes, the world has been made safe for irrelevant fear-mongering about Japanese nuclear incidents which don’t affect anywhere outside the affected plant.

  • avatar
    Kenmore

    I was starting to like him.

  • avatar
    Xeranar

    And its somebody of the opposite political view of your own. I don’t follow every passing moment and I tend to read what he wrote. I took him as a more pompous version of my own views and I can hold my own here but thus it passes. I shall stand proud and fight the good fight for him, for me, for us!

    Nah…I’ll just continue to point out the right wing economic follies. I imagine he’ll be back since he probably actually enjoyed the venom…

    • 0 avatar

      You’re an eloquent and articulate commenter. He was primarily concerned with letting everybody know how smart he was, then advocating his his world view, then maybe, on the odd occassion, discussing automobiles.

      • 0 avatar
        VCplayer

        That’s pretty well-said Derek. After the first couple of conversations I had with him I kind of just stopped trying. You can’t really talk with someone when they just want to prove how right they are.

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          @Derek Kreindler – agreed. Their posts unfortunately had little to do with vehicles and more with the manipulation of the English language.
          Most trolls I’ve encountered on other sites have low IQ’s or approach trolling from a primordial soup way. Crawl out of the ooze and contaminate the environment. Amoebic dysentery comes to mind.
          They approached things more from the attitude of malevolent being toying with caveman mortals.

          Regardless of the approach, if one does not contribute to the blog especially after being warned, they need to be banned.

          Free speech may be a right but access to a blog is a privilege.

          • 0 avatar
            niky

            Actually, many are quite intelligent. Merely… anti-social.

            Shame. Even when you disagree with him, it’s possible for him to make some good points. But not without insulting your intelligence, belittling you and refusing to admit to any mistakes on his part, even when it’s glaringly obvious they’re there.

            For someone who kept badgering others to do their research and learn, he was awfully adverse to doing so himself.

          • 0 avatar
            redav

            niky, another one I notice occasionally is trolling due to autism-like behaviors–the inability to interpret other people & thus inability to understand them or see their perspective. Since they lack those tools, they over-depend on the tools they do have (that also leads to hobbies and overly-strong focus on that hobby), and that leads to over-convincing themselves that they are right.

          • 0 avatar
            niky

            That’s something there. We had a user (not a troll) on another site (dedicated to fuel economy) who flamed out in a major way. Exhibited many signs of Asperger’s, and their first post was incredibly weird, but he really seemed to be trying.

            Then he saw a post he took as plagiarism, flipped out, and edited all his posts (this is one of those boards with no time limits on editing) into blanket criticisms of the entire site.

            Poor guy.

      • 0 avatar
        jhefner

        Xeranar also doesn’t go into a 100 comment tit-for-tat back and forth; even when he is wrong. I have already been ignoring u mad scienctist, but glad I don’t have to waste time skipping over him.

      • 0 avatar
        Xeranar

        Awww…You just made me feel special, Derek. :3

        But really, I can understand. It is what it is, he certainly seemed to enjoy the vitriol where I just take it as part of being a partisan.

    • 0 avatar
      an innocent man

      He wasn’t pompous, he was simply a bully.

    • 0 avatar
      marc

      Mmm Hmmm. No surprises on TTAC. It seems 95% of the editorial staff, contributors and posters occupy a position somewhere right of center. I don’t know his posts in other areas, but I just reviewed scientist’s CA/TX arguments, and the made a lot of sense, with little negativity directed toward other posters. But they were decidedly left of center. It’s unholy land we lefties wade into at TTAC, and I for one have been called some nasty things today because of it. I’m sure none of those folks will get banned. The axe certainly tends to fall on one side and not the other. Some things never change. The king (BS, RF, EN) is dead. Long live the king (JB, RS, DK).

      • 0 avatar
        Robert Gordon

        I agree. Seems that this was a most unfair and politically motivated banning.

        • 0 avatar

          He was banned for his attitude, for being rude to people, not for his politics. There are plenty of people with left of center politics who comment here regularly. PCH101, Psar and Xeraner come to mind. Also, U Mad was just as rude to lefties and non-political types who disagreed with him. He was just as rude about engineering and physics as he was about politics.

          If anything, this was driven by complaints from other readers who said that his behavior, his tone, was driving them from the site. None of those complaints said anything about his politics.

          What would you do if a visitor to your website was driving people away with obnoxious behavior?

          • 0 avatar
            Robert Gordon

            “What would you do if a visitor to your website was driving people away with obnoxious behavior?”

            Ah, so now we get to the real issue adverting $values over values.

            But was he really driving people away? It seems to me most of the threads he contributed too ended up being much longer than average with many more of the precious clicks one would presume.

            He may have been an obnoxious turd, but I didn’t see anything he wrote as particularly offensive. Certainly it may have piqued a few of the more precious souls – but it’s not like he threatened anyone or questioned their parentage.

            Massive over-reaction.

          • 0 avatar
            niky

            I’m left of center, and some of his latest tirades were against me.

            If you look deep into his posting history, he has a long history of calling people idiots and belittling anyone who disagreed with him. Our latest conversation devolved into four letter words d1sgu1s3d w1th 1337 in order to clear the swear filter.

          • 0 avatar
            Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

            Add an ‘ignore’ WP plugin?

        • 0 avatar
          Lou_BC

          Why the “right” attacking the “left” comments?
          The 2 banned posters attacked any point of view that caused controversy and was condescending to everyone regardless of socio/political inclinations.

      • 0 avatar
        JD23

        I don’t think he had to ability to engage in a conversation without disparaging the intelligence of anyone who dared to disagree with him. He is likely quite intelligent, but reminds me of several acquaintances who are afflicted with Asperger’s in terms of social interaction.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        If you ever feel you are being persecuted by a TTAC writer or commenter solely because of your politics, let me know and we’ll fix it.

        I get mail from the SPLC all the time, I must be someone’s idea of a loony-leftie!

        • 0 avatar
          psarhjinian

          You persecuted me for preferring vi to emacs.

          I still hold a grudge about that.

          :wq!

        • 0 avatar
          Yurpean

          I am not sure if the prevalent behavior here at TTAC is solely due to politics but I find it surprising that you haven’t noticed the vitriol and hate against anything perceived left or associated with the left.

          Lieberals, Soviet Kalifornistan, let’s hope an earthquake gets rid of your sort, traitors, and so on and so on. And opposed to that are the virtues of the RIGHT America, the only true ideology, with it’s shining example of Texas, which we all have to worship or we are subhuman. Want more examples? Union thugs, crushing regulations, confiscatory taxes is usually how it starts and quickly descends into how Detroit was killed by the Democrats (sic!). Smug racial dog whistles (Detroit! Inner cities! hehe) are galore, probably assuming that we do not listen to Glenn Beck or Rush Limbaugh. Well, we do and we are in possession of the decoder ring. Top it all off with a healthy dose of climate change denial and you have an almost complete set of shibboleths of the current right wing.

          None of this gets called out I am afraid, neither the veiled threats, insults, nor denigrations.

          And that’s fine, this is after all your site and we don’t have to stay here. But the comment section on this site has descended into a right wing bully fest long time ago and people of opposing opinion have to be careful what they say.

          • 0 avatar
            bunkie

            I have to say that I certainly feel this way at times. The writers and commentariat, in gneral, definitely do hew right-of-center. Nothing wrong with that, I hate isolating myself in one political corner. But there is a large tolerance for the stereotypes that Yurpean has listed.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            Honestly being more right of center I could say the same thing for the site skewing left of center.
            The ban has NOTHING to do with his political leanings, his posts were complete non-sense and always ended with him trying to turn everything into something it wasn’t.

            If the way he represented the left was in anyway helpful to the lefts’ causes, then I’m overly concerned.

            There’s no conservative bullying going on, this guy was simply unwilling to admit being wrong about anything, even with piles of proof proving otherwise. If you didn’t agree with him, then you were targeted and then accused of being some stereotypical white trash that Hollywood portrays conservatives.

          • 0 avatar
            CRConrad

            +1

    • 0 avatar
      mr.cranky

      It’s really too bad that the poster that was banned was probably the only other poster that I happen to agree with.

      Though, I would like to see TTAC call out people for spreading disinformation on climate change and Co2. It’s maddening to watch some posters claim that Co2 isn’t a pollutant, etc and no one is countering them. It runs the danger of adding to a “hive mind” on here.

      • 0 avatar
        darkwing

        Absolutely untrue. I have yet to see someone make that point and not get challenged, usually repeatedly and vociferously. Just look at the CAFE thread from a couple days back — fully half the thread was spawned by BTSR (aw, buddy) saying CO2 isn’t a pollutant.

        (Unless you are in fact referring to diatomic cobalt — in which case I would agree, it would be a pollutant, and a dangerous one, if it existed.)

        What you’re actually pushing for is the height of illiberalism. Dangerous, and far too prevalent nowadays.

        • 0 avatar
          Hummer

          “What you’re actually pushing for is the height of illiberalism. Dangerous, and far too prevalent nowadays.”

          Exactly you can’t call to shut down an argument, especially one so contraversial. It says to everyone you have no facts but rather are afraid of your ideas being challenged, ideas that you only adopted because someone told you them. Maybe you’ve molded your life around those ideas and are afraid of them being wrong. But a lot of evidence exists for the flip side, whether or not your willing to accept that.

        • 0 avatar
          CRConrad

          But that would be Co2, not CO2. Chemistry is case sensitive.

          • 0 avatar
            WheelMcCoy

            I majored in chemistry and CO2 is correct… well, subscript 2.

            C = Carbon
            O2 = 2 Oxygens (dioxide)

            Co = Cobalt, a radioactive isotope. Like the Chevy version, it’s dangerous.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        If you feel someone has posted something inaccurate, you’re free to rebut them. That being said, in every single thread where “climate change” is mentioned, there are always plenty of people willing to counter each other.

        Unless what you mean by countering people is to have a moderator “silence them”, there are always good points and counter points. Silencing people of differing views is what Jack is trying to avoid and I might say is doing a pretty good job of putting up with the would-be silencers.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        You posting that BTS had his head up his butt was hardly a defensible position on the subject unlikely to earn you debate points

      • 0 avatar
        SCE to AUX

        Several people here don’t believe CO2 is a pollutant, and they take plenty of flack for it – me included.

        The minute TTAC officially calls people out for ‘spreading disinformation” about global warming, I’ll self-ban.

        And I’m the one driving an electric car. Gimme a break.

    • 0 avatar
      TOTitan

      Xeranar….I agree with you. He may have pompous but I dont blame him for getting annoyed at the way right wingers around here just make shit up and present it as fact. He just was a little overeager in the way he went about handing people their asses. Thing about facts……you cant make up your own, keep repeating them, and consider them to be true after endless repetitions. I get annoyed at the reality avoiding a******* too.

  • avatar
    Sigivald

    I managed to never even really notice that one.

  • avatar
    Big Al from Oz

    It’s pity he displayed an air of arrogance.

    I do think he was quite intelligent.

    Sort of like having a fantastic Snap on toolset but being able to use the tools.

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    I guess I just missed the offending posts… Which article was it on?

    • 0 avatar

      Don’t you just hate it when something controversial happens and you have to search high and low to find out what it was?

      Check Worldstarhiphop maybe…

    • 0 avatar
      fvfvsix

      Dude has been in rare form lately. Just check the last two pages of articles, and you can find something he posted that will make you question his age, experience, and sanity.

      • 0 avatar
        chris724

        It seems like his posts have been purged. I couldn’t find any…

        • 0 avatar
          burgersandbeer

          He was all over Jack’s recent CX-5 rental review. If you can’t find the comments in that story, they have definitely been purged.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            His posts are still here, the most recent batch were on the Wards auto Texas/China article

          • 0 avatar
            chris724

            OK, I found his posts. *shudder* Good riddance to that guy!

          • 0 avatar
            MK

            Yeah the cx5 piece is where I finally wrote him off as a hypocritical, self-important loon. That example was so cut and dried it was kinda sad to watch the posturing and attempts to defend his biases and particular worldview.

            He was your standard Mk1 mod 0 forum troll, they all eventually implode or overstay their welcome.

            Cars, climate change, texans, guitars. guns, oil, war, republicans, money, bicycles, watches, cameras….. The website topic doesn’t matter because forum troll is still talking about the same thing.

            Good riddance, I can already think of a few more that’ll end up getting the boot.

            Have a great week!
            :)

          • 0 avatar
            philadlj

            I just skimmed the CX-5 comments. Ye GODS.

    • 0 avatar
      burgersandbeer

      I think this was more for the sum of all his comments rather than a single grievously offensive post. So to answer your question, almost any article that he commented in.

  • avatar

    kick it a buck…

  • avatar
    Dave M.

    Thanks for that Jack, you’re a far more patient man than me. Yesterday I was half-heartedly going to ask if y’all could add an ‘ignore commenter’ button.

    It’s not what you say, but how you say it.

  • avatar

    I am not a believer in anonymous free speech Ronnie. It is a gutless way to communicate, no matter how many times I hear the arguments about protection of identity due to jobs in the industry and conflict of interest, among other dodges. I am not really familiar with the banned guy’s body of work, but I have seen countless examples of emboldened no-namers hiding behind a nom de plume under the guise of a freer exchange of ideas. Everyone deserves the freedom to share ideas, but anonymous posters remind me of drunk people who find their inner courage via an artificial crutch.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I see your points but we live in a vindictive and egregious society who by-and-large lack the critical thinking skills necessary to understand a point, let alone come up and an articulate argument before or against it.

    • 0 avatar
      Dirty Dingus McGee

      Wait, you think my name ain’t real? Me and my brother Bobby would beg to differ.

      The reason I use a “nome de plume”, and a “throw away” e-mail, is due to a past experience; On a totally unrelated site( that is no longer active) I made a post that angered another commenter. After a few back and forth exchanges that only seemed to enrage the commenter more, I quit the subject. Sadly the other person wouldn’t. It seems this person was far more computer savvy than I as they somehow were able to get my e-mail address, home address and found out where I worked(the work part was actually easy due to trade magazine article’s that featured me). My email was hacked, I started getting mail sent TO MY WORKPLACE to other departments(with a fake name and return address of course), and more junk mail at home than I thought was possible. This went on for over a year. I guess the person finally lost interest, or found someone else to torment. Lucky for me, and them also I think, no attempt was made at ID theft.

      Therefore, these days I go by this route. There are some posters on other forums, where I use this name also, that know my actual identity due to having met them in person at various events.

  • avatar
    Discoman

    Two words. Thank you.

  • avatar
    NoGoYo

    I have a feeling this won’t be the last time this happens. I’ve been an Internet forum-goer for years and nobody ever bans only one person.

  • avatar
    Hummer

    Did he actually know anything about cars?

    You’d think after I posted the 10th link proving a wagoneer (ala 1960s) was traditional BoF, he’d give in and admit he was wrong or at least drop it. Kinda hard to have any significance behind what you say when you argue against supplied unmitigating facts.

    • 0 avatar
      Hummer

      Of course this is the same guy that posted links to his own comments as if they were actual sources.

    • 0 avatar
      heavy handle

      Off topic: That wasn’t him, it was me. I figured you had started with your conclusion and built your case backwards from there. No point in me wasting much time on the topic. If you’re still interested, this article has a picture of what a real BoF frame looks like:

      http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/10/review-2014-ram-promaster-cargo-van-with-video/

      Of course, at the time, manufacturers typically used x-bracing, like Jeep did later with the Comanche. The pictures you posted showed no cross-bracing at all, which was provided by the floorpan. Kind of like how an Ikea bookcase is completely loose until you nail the cardboard backing.
      Seems obvious to me, but I will grant that it’s not necessarily intuitive: the Wagoneer looks like it has a BoF, until you notice what’s missing. You could call it a transitional design, given 20/20 hindsight. Later, computer-aided, designs didn’t need vestigial frame rails.

    • 0 avatar
      anti121hero

      Somebody questioned the wagoneer being bof? I thought that was just common knowledge, honestly

  • avatar
    mitchw

    Whatever you do, Jack, please don’t ban the wacky. I know who I’m talking about.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    This won’t be the last time for house cleaning. There are a couple others around here who can’t cap it.

  • avatar
    APaGttH

    I’m happy,, …. this was …. thing… gooD,, have to do it….then And now.!

  • avatar
    Gardiner Westbound

    Never noticed. I move to the next comment after the first two or three lines if a comment doesn’t interest me.

  • avatar
    bnolt

    My scroll wheel thanks you! He’s like a comet: appears every five years or so to spew forth before flaming out. A real serial offender. I’d be willing to bet that RF had the same reaction.

  • avatar
    jconli1

    That’s one. Lately I’ve been ignoring the comments entirely, which is a shame as the open, informed, car-loving conversation is usually the best part of the site.

    • 0 avatar
      burgersandbeer

      Same here. I have my own ignore button in my head. It reached the point where I would use it for the subject of this announcement, a couple other commenters, and unfortunately everyone that bothered to reply to them.

  • avatar
    raresleeper

    There are times when there will be disagreements.

    People will debate. And criticize.

    So long as its constructive, I don’t see any issues with that.

    However, if you get personal, and consistently with other commenters, thats a problem.

    And (showing a human element here), if I ever say something that is rude, please accept my apology now.

    Now that we’ve had this moment, don’t ever expect it again.

    Good God, that was challenging.

    By the way, thank you, Jack, for silencing those on a crash course to destruction. It’s amazing that some people can thrive on that kind of stuff.

    Manners. Some folks have them, some folks don’t, I suppose.

  • avatar
    lozz

    Some of the jokers you run into on-line must never be game to drink in bars. If they started shooting their mouths off like that in a pub, they’d take their faces home in a bucket, every time.

  • avatar
    cpthaddock

    … imagining the process Jack goes to before dropping the sword (Excalibur)

    We’re an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as sort-of-executive officer for the week, but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special biweekly meeting by a simple majority, in the case of purely internal affairs But by a two thirds majority, in the case of more major …

    Apologies to Messrs Python.

  • avatar
    jberger

    Thanks Jack.

    Now how about a simple “ignore poster” button so we can take care of it ourselves.

  • avatar
    Zombo

    I knew the no-ban policy wouldn’t last , because once word of it gets around people will take advantage of it – BIG TIME ! For example from about 2002 to sometime in 2007 there was a Dallas Cowboy fan forum on the Forth Worth Star Telegram website. Apparently they just had a cuss word program which could be overcome with spacing a letter and those at that newspaper in charge of it just didn’t seem to care what went on in there . Eventually bigotry in post titles and everything else went on causing some to create their own fan sites and the site eventually closing shop altogether forever.

    I hate to quote the yelling fire in a movie theater line , but free speech comes hand in hand with the responsibility to be sensible and sane while exercising it . Frankly I’d rather see the ability to post click on links come back rather than having a no ban policy .

    • 0 avatar
      carlisimo

      Not sure I agree – the conversation here has been better than it used to be, despite the hopeful no-ban policy.

      • 0 avatar
        Zombo

        I don’t frequent this site as much as I used to and am not that familiar with the poster banned other than ignoring his posts after seeing a reply to practically everyone on every thread – although I did like his Bender avatar . But I’m guessing when Jack emailed him more than once asking him to tone it down he didn’t politely agree . Still a pretty permissive site compared to most IMO .

        I post on a sports site where you can say pretty much anything . But that forum was started by moderators of another like site that got fed up with the troll who was ruining the other forum we were on due to the total determination of that site’s starter to ever ban anyone (anyone who agreed with his opinions it turned out) . Well the troll is still there and ironically he’s banned plenty others since then to prove his point and threatened to shut down if he didn’t get the donations to keep going . You do have to respect the administrators and moderators – unless they are insane ! Clearly not the case here .

        • 0 avatar
          This Is Dawg

          Oh god can you imagine the self-important responses he must have sent Jack? Thanks for doing the Charlie Work JB! ;)(http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Charlie%20Work)

  • avatar
    anti121hero

    He never bothered me too much. There is another particular poster that gets on my nerves quite frequently, and exhibits a lot of the behavior described, to a very trollish extent. A slinger of guitars? And not you Jack, haha.

  • avatar

    So, it wasn’nt bigtruckseriesreview @ Youtube?

    JUST KIDDIN’S!

  • avatar
    05lgt

    I’m going to miss taking pot shots at him. His coherency and vitriol seemed inversely proportional…. Sometimes drunk posting is a problem.

  • avatar
    gtrslngr

    1) Can’t say I’ve ever noticed either of them . But then again I seldom read every article and every comment especially once the 9-5 day is done

    2) Having said that and being one of those Jack has had a conversation with [ I’m man enough to own up to it ] If Jack says they were that bad .. then they must of been

    3) But if y’all think things can get a bit rough around here . Have a go with any of the Foodie sites . Those folks define brutal

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    I cannot question umadscientists intelligence much, but I will say that he had below average social skills, he more or less was one of those types who just HAD TO RESPOND TO EVERYONE. Less intelligence being the issue and more-so an awful attitude.

    • 0 avatar
      Carlson Fan

      I suspect the reality is he’s suffering from some type mental illness. I recognize the name but honestly can’t say much about him because I never bothered reading much of anything he wrote.

    • 0 avatar
      Macca

      Perhaps it’s bad form to kick a man when he’s down, but I’m not really sure how folks can imagine that this character was anything resembling intelligent.

      Being able to string together ‘big’ words hardly requires lofty intelligence, and his inability to carry on a conversation without calling out others’ *un*intelligence seemed like a huge red flag – constantly tearing others down smacks of compensation for some other issues, as Carlson Fan mentions, likely something bordering on a mental illness.

      I was really hoping this would occur – he was ruining this site.

  • avatar
    DeadWeight

    Allow me to preface my following comments by stating that:

    1) I can be very prickish at times,

    2) Despite #1, I never have personally insulted anyone or engaged in ad hominem attacks during even the most heated debates (not once, ever, as in never), – some have accused me of unfairly criticizing Alex’s reviews, but EVEN IF my criticisms of his reviews ARE unfair/objectively without merit, they have never contained personal attacks on Alex, and I genuinely believe the notions I express therein (and don’t post more than 1 or, at most, 2 comments, in those review threads)

    3) I am very much pro-free speech and despise sites where editors/moderators can subjectively decide to ban commenters.

    HOWEVER

    1) The aforementioned banned individual was someone I essentially learned to ignore & refused to engage in discourse with a long time ago,

    2) TTAC is one of the most lenient sites I’ve ever encountered in allowing anyone to express their thought, ideas, sentiments & to engage in even quite heated debate that I have ever regularly visited (with the exception of Bertel’s reign),

    3) TTAC is 100% free,

    4) Despite my reluctance to support bannings, for every rule, there is an exception, and this person (with two user names, apparently) definitely proved that adage with mucho gusto. I don’t know he lasted as long as he did. I am not trying to kiss a$$ in any way by saying this (not my style), the current management, including Jack, have far more patience & tolerance of assholery than I ever would.

    Thank you, and goodnight.

  • avatar
    reclusive_in_nature

    I wonder how one who posts incessantly on a website responds to being banned?

    My money is either moving on to Car and Driver’s or Politico’s website.

  • avatar
    Crosley

    Good riddance, he didn’t seem to even care about cars, just loved to argue and pretend he was some super genius.

  • avatar
    RobertRyan

    His discussion with @niky was more about semantics than the Japanese in Africa.Quite tedious.

    • 0 avatar
      CRConrad

      He was whacking on me about, basically, semantics too. (OTOH, it’s been argued that everyhting is semantics when you get right down to it. Or at least can be made to be.)

      And the worst thing is, I was also actually talking semantics; felt like he just didn’t realise that was what he was doing, only I did… Oh, and I, in contrast to him, was also *right* about those semantics.

      No, I don’t understand at all; what do you mean, “there’s a little mad scientist in all of us”?!?

  • avatar
    niky

    It must be said, that while I’ve had many (excessively long) debates with certain people here in which I’ve been questioned, challenged and doubly-questioned, they have all been rather pleasant. I don’t mind getting into long debates with people (other than agenthex/UMS) over things we fundamentally disagree about if we can be civil about it.

    Rational debate is part and parcel of the TTAC experience, and is much of the reason I started coming here. And is part of the reason why I am proud to have been given the chance to contribute in the past. None of the other majors have such an educated, polite and generally knowledgeable readerbase. If that means a smaller readerbase than the memefarms and russian dashcam video sites, so be it… it’s a readerbase that won’t jump ship when a better memefarm comes along.

  • avatar
    The Heisenberg Cartel

    The suggestion that this was politically motivated is hilarious to me, and I’m as big of a lefty as they come here (social leaning libertarian, fiscally leaning socialist). This dude was the only TTAC commenter I remember whose talent for posting page after page of nonsense literally has the power to crash web browsers.

    Keep gtrslngr around as long as possible though. He’s absolutely hilarious. It’s like a slightly crazed homeless guy commenting from a library computer with 1800s literature spread out in a 3 foot radius all around him.

  • avatar
    masrapida

    Yawn. Empty gesture, considering the others that apparently get to keep posting

  • avatar

    Not to be confused with a similarly named commenter…

  • avatar
    troyohchatter

    It’s only housekeeping if all throughout the evelotion those not involved don’t see your cleaning supplies. If you spent your time cleaning your house and then company showed up, and in the entryway of your home is a mop bucket, broom, vaccuum cleaner, etc; well, that leaves a negative impression in and of itself.

    Taking action against the ranters or inappropriate posters is all part of the gig and I get that. But how it’s handled is between you and them. I would say just leave it at that. To post out here the hows and whys is counterproductive. The most I would allow you can do is a post with comments closed restating the rules for posting comments. Any more than that and you are just feeding the situation.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      I see what you’re saying, but having an open forum about the incident is also helpful in establishing some general guidelines and suggesting boundaries of what is and isn’t acceptable behavior. Although I personally support the no-ban policy I recognize that there must be a line drawn in the sand somewhere

  • avatar
    shaker

    Actually, his avatar (“I AM BENDER, I AM GREAT! BURP/FIRE) matched an aspect of his personality.

    A pretty intelligent fellow, but like any powerful drug, effective in small doses, poison above that. I usually liked his posts up to the point where he started attacking people.

    Probably had too much time on his claws (even moreso, now).

    I’m sure that people don’t much care for my politics/environmental positions, but when it comes down to it, we’re all “here for the beer”.

  • avatar
    Zackman

    There are always risks when running an auto blog website because you never know what the “tone” will be when a stand is taken. TTAC has pretty much a “take no prisoners” approach, but in a way that isn’t malicious, at least not in a way that it may have been in the past.

    I’ve been here since 2010, and have seen several changes. I don’t like it when someone has to be banned, but once in a while, an individual can’t seem to get through his head that TTAC (or any other website for that matter) isn’t his personal soapbox, that it is owned by someone else, and it must be understood that there are limits to what one can or should be allowed to post.

    TTAC should continue to shoot for the highest mark, and I think since Jack has taken over, the site is at it’s greatest point and should remain there for the foreseeable future. For the overall auto industry, TTAC is still the best!

  • avatar
    danio3834

    I take the Jack Baruth moderation approach to my daily life, but every now and then you do need to ask someone to leave the party. The Golden Rule, my friends. It’s lost on some

    Unless they are a glutton for punishment, I guess. It’s possible his expectations really were for others to respond in kind.

  • avatar
    gtrslngr

    To be honest after a bit of contemplation I’m having some serious reservations about all this . Why you may ask ?

    1) Its one thing to change the rules after having made clear to everyone that the rules have been changed . Its something else entirely to single out a few individuals for circumventing the new rules that have not been made clear and the banning one or two individuals for refusing to comply

    2) BigTruck * etc’s comments on this very page to myself after having willingly admitted I was one of the five contacted is part and parcel of the problem here . Self righteous individuals .. going out of their way to antagonize and harass [ How many of you pedantic types have hassled me about using ….. as a pregnant pause and being quite insulting about it ] and then complaining and whining when put in their place

    Whats most annoying though is those like BigTruck etc who feel free to dish it out on a regular basis but are completely incapable of taking as well as they give . My attitude being ; If you cant stand the heat .. stay the ___ out of the kitchen

    3) Derek’s ” Good Commentator ” responses here ; So .. what ? Only those who agree with Derek etc are to be considered ” good commentators ” whereas those of us that stand for the Truth … and dane to contradict are immediately branded as bad ? Hmmmn … That wreaks a bit of Totalitarianism & Censorship .

    4) To what extend do we take these new ” Rules ” ? Stopping us from railing against companies who most definitely have done wrong in order to preserve the peace with the company in question ? Censoring negative comments aimed at the authors of articles here even though the author in questions comments are most definitely and provably wrong ? [ Much as I like you son … thats aimed at you Derek … re; The GLA article ]

    5) What in my mind is even worse though …. and sorry BigTruck for my singling you out several times here but you bring it on yourself . Is the allowing of Blatant and Intentional Propaganda by either an individual or entity whos sole intent is the spreading of said propaganda in order to self promote and/or push ones blatant insular agenda : while then chastising and/or banning someone who may be a bit contentious around the edges is in the plainest of English …. wrong ! In every way , shape or form .

    So in closing … I’m going to be seriously reconsidering my participation here .

    Sermon over . Coffee and Donuts in the Narthex . Amen and Good Day .

    * to put it bluntly BigTruck … if you think for a minute an intelligent , educated , well rounded and informed individual such as myself is going to stand idly by while the likes of you spread your blatant [ had you vetted BigTruck and I know exactly who and what you are ] propaganda based agenda … then you’re even more out of touch with reality than I originally assumed

    • 0 avatar
      The Heisenberg Cartel

      “Whats most annoying though is those like BigTruck etc who feel free to dish it out on a regular basis but are completely incapable of taking as well as they give . My attitude being ; If you cant stand the heat .. stay the ___ out of the kitchen”

      Oh please. You’re possibly the most sensitive snowflake on this whole site. If he can’t stand the heat, you’re a snowman. You spent every paragraph except for this one whinging about how mistreated you are and what a dictator Derek is because of one person who got banned by JACK.

      “4) To what extend do we take these new ” Rules ” ? Stopping us from railing against companies who most definitely have done wrong in order to preserve the peace with the company in question ? Censoring negative comments aimed at the authors of articles here even though the author in questions comments are most definitely and provably wrong ? [ Much as I like you son … thats aimed at you Derek … re; The GLA article ]”

      And condescending Derek based on your age is supposed to accomplish what, again? Because it sure doesn’t give anybody any respect for you. And while I’m at it, can you go an entire comment thread without condescending people for their age or mentioning how old you allegedly are?

      “* to put it bluntly BigTruck … if you think for a minute an intelligent , educated , well rounded and informed individual such as myself is going to stand idly by while the likes of you spread your blatant [ had you vetted BigTruck and I know exactly who and what you are ] propaganda based agenda … then you’re even more out of touch with reality than I originally assumed”

      Oh seriously, shut up. Stop acting like a bad wannabe movie character. You’re a legend in your own mind. Boy, this internets is serious business. SO SERIOUS. Much argue. Very yelling. Such pontificate. Wow.

    • 0 avatar
      Jeff Waingrow

      gtrslngr, I speak only for myself in saying that I applaud you for seriously reconsidering your participation here. Please do. Please do.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      Don’t let the screen door hit you…

      Damn tall poppies

    • 0 avatar
      brenschluss

      //

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      Hint: never put a space between a word and it’s comma. Or period.

  • avatar
    davefromcalgary

    http://xkcd.com/1357/

  • avatar
    punkybrewstershubby aka Troy D.

    TTAC continues to be my 2nd stop on the AM internet roundup and always will be. The purging of miscreants and typing dildos just makes it that much better. Thanks, JB.

  • avatar
    -Nate

    TEST :

    See if I’m still allowed here =8-) .

    Being Conservative isn’t really a bad thing , is it ? .

    -Nate

    • 0 avatar
      philadlj

      Thankfully comment signatures are not grounds for dismissal. I for one am always bemused and a little charmed when I see them. ;)

      -philadlj, of found mind, in the Year Of Our Lorde Two Thoufand Fourteen

      • 0 avatar
        The Heisenberg Cartel

        Lorde?

        Ahem…

        Wait til you’re called out
        They’ve not yet lost all their graces
        The trolls will stay on leashes
        Look upon Derek’s greatness and he will send the call out
        Send the call out
        Send the call out
        Send the call out
        Send the call out
        Send the call out

        *beat drops*

        Call all the spammers out, they’re
        Not quite the B&B
        A hundred flames on posts
        A hundred bad ellipses
        Now bring the Game Changers
        Their eyes on saving the peace
        The peace we love like the wagons,
        Diesel stick R-W-D

        Dancing proud of the lies they tell
        Dancing proud of the spam they sell, ah
        Even the most verbose
        They rest on Baruth’s tell

        (Chorus)
        We live on TTAC, with names not on screen
        Not very Priddy but we sure know how to stir things
        Living in ruins that were once comments clean
        Still you know, we are the B+B

        I’m kind of tired of getting told to ignore those that won’t fight fair
        So there

        So the discourse broke
        Too much text on screen
        But it wasn’t my fault
        Only three competing
        For accolades they won’t receive
        Cuz what this website wants is sanity

        [chorus]
        I’m kind of older than I was when Bertel banned without a care
        So there

  • avatar
    donutguy

    I’ve been on the internet since I bought my first computer in 1994…..learned lots of stuff from lots of people- but the best advice I’ve ever had was that no one wins an argument on the internet,so don’t bother trying.

  • avatar
    ravenchris

    This banning seems weak.
    Invite agenthex to write a five hundred word essay explaining why he should be reinstated.
    Then let the readership reply and vote nay or yea.
    Be strong.


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