By on February 11, 2014

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In late 2013, TTAC was invited to review the Jeep Cherokee. As the journalist assigned to cover the launch, I gave what I felt was a nuanced but critical assessment of the vehicle: that it delivered with respect to its off-road prowess, but left a lot to be desired in other areas, namely the on-road driving experience and overall packaging.

TTAC was alone in its criticisms, with other outlets heaping praise on the Cherokee for attributes that I felt were lacking. A backlash from readers, Mopar fans and other entities ensued, and we were left looking like a fringe element of anti-Cherokee cranks, despite what we as an organization felt was a fair and nuanced, if – ahem – slightly colorful review of the car. It turns out that in the end, we weren’t alone.

Consumer Reports recently delivered their verdict on the Cherokee, and their examples (ostensibly one that they purchased) were criticized for many of the same issues that TTAC did, namely, poor dynamics, a choppy ride and an unrefined 9-speed automatic transmission. Only TTAC and CR have called out the Cherokee for these issues, with other media outlets either downplaying, ignoring or outright praising these elements. Since then, the media has been happy to give the car more positive press, spinning its respectable but mid-pack sales figures into some kind of Cinderella story.

When you are the lone outlet taking a controversial stance on a new car, it can be tough to weather the accusations of bias or even outright malice. Everyone wonders why your impressions are so different from the rest of the pack. In addition, you are left even more vulnerable to punitive actions from the auto maker for having strayed off message. But CR’s impressions of the car, even months later, feels like vindication on some level.

Chrysler has graciously offered to let TTAC have another go at the Cherokee, and I’m slated to have my own re-test in April. It’s been my hope that these issues have been ironed out, especially after the costly delays that Chrysler implemented with the objective of improving the Cherokee’s transmission. They deserve immense credit for having the courage to do so. Whatever the outcome, you can be sure that we will refrain from The Wobble. We will continue to bring you The Truth About Cars.

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199 Comments on “The Wobble Comes To An End As Consumer Reports Echoes TTACs Criticisms Of The Jeep Cherokee...”


  • avatar
    dwford

    Consumer Reports does indeed buy cars right off the lot. I participated in 2 CR transactions in 5 years selling Hyundais and they send a regular guy in to test drive and negotiate. Only on the day of delivery do they call and let you know who they really are so they can bring a bank check. They even made me go through the whole dealer locate process for a particular color – not sure why that mattered for their testing purposes.

    • 0 avatar
      namesakeone

      I read once that, when testing a group of cars, they try to have each of that group a different color to distinguish for testing. I heard also that they prefer red, simply for resale value.

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      You salesfolk have to have, as a part of your job, IMHO (if you want to be really good), the ability to INSTANTLY put a name to a face when they walk in your store’s door! I just have to ask how in the world their shoppers are able to fly under the radar? (If one of those shoppers walks in and is recognized, it’s “game over!”) There’s only so many people who know how to play CR’s game, there’s only a specific number of dealers within a distance of their headquarters, with fewer dealers which will give the best deal, and they buy a lot of cars per year, especially the new models (usually as soon as they come out)!

  • avatar
    walker42

    I dunno. As I recall, the article in TTAC complained mainly about workmanship (e.g. the stitching on the steering wheel, which was obviously bad because the car was a prototype) and the transmission controller. If CR harped on the same points you would be vindicated but if they had issues with different aspects of the car I would consider the original TTAC piece to still be a bit of an outlier. I believe the car is selling well, no?

    • 0 avatar

      It’s selling at a decent but not outstanding pace. We also complained about the handling and the transmission, just like CR.

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        Handling doesn’t seem to be a big deal to a majority of buyers, but TTAC doesn’t cater to the majority, so it’s appropriate that you mentioned it….

      • 0 avatar
        ellomdian

        You guys threw about a dozen different stones in the original review. Just so happens that CR broke 2 of the same windows. My impression from the original article was that you really disliked the build quality, and what really stands out is the steering wheel stitching, but I have not re-read it since – that’s just what I recall.

        Also of note – Less of these pats-on-the-back articles, more of the articles like Alex’s on the 9-speed itself, you know, the one with the quote “Dual clutch robotized manuals have a particular feel that was accepted by performance enthusiasts but has been a source of complaint for Focus and Fiesta shoppers.”

        • 0 avatar
          walker42

          I remember that close up shot of the steering wheel stitching at the top of the article. Gripes at the beginning like that tend to be the ones of highest importance but in the case of the steering wheel stitching it looks perfect in production. That’s why I’ve always thought of that review as well placed wobble.

          It’s not like Jeep thought “damn you Kreindler, we thought we were going to get away with that stitching but now have to hurry up and fix it: No vacation for us” The car was already in production when you guys drove the prototypes.

          Seriously how could you have thought that steering wheel was production ready? Are you new at reviewing new model cars?

          Sorry DK but people noticed.

          • 0 avatar
            TTACFanatic

            Derek wasn’t criticizing spy shots, he was giving honest opinions on a cherry picked prototype vehicle driven at an event thrown by Chrysler.

            Also the fact that the Cherokee was already “in production” doesn’t mean everything was set in stone because its launch was delayed several months to fix “production ready” issues.

          • 0 avatar
            sgeffe

            I wanted to hear the backstory behind the PCM reprogramming of these cars!

            They were rolling the cars off the Toledo line, then parking them in damn near every large piece of vacant land throughout the city because they ran out of space in the shipping lots! (The sites of not one, but two former (and razed) malls in town were overflowing with Cherokees waiting for reprogramming!) The husband of one of the hygienists at my dentist office works at the Jeep plant, and six months ago (when she cleaned my teeth, an anomaly since another hygienist usually does my cleanings) was when they had started production, then halted shipments. I just wanted to find out if she had heard how many man-hours it took to reprogram all those PCMs and put them back into the supply lines for shipment to dealers.

  • avatar
    Habibi

    “But none of this will deter us from taking the easy way out and compromising our integrity”

    Did you mean the opposite of this sentence? Or was it written tongue in cheek?

  • avatar

    I see so many Cherokees on the road now that obviously the word has gotten around. The FREE MARKET HAS SPOKEN.

    I’m fairly certain if I randomly ask Cherokee owners whether or not the “9-speed gearbox controversy” influenced their buying decision, I’m almost 100% certain no one would know what I was talking about.

    I was a critic of the Cherokee’s looks right up until I saw one in person. Then I drove it with all its technology – which was just like what I had in my JGCSRT. Then I looked at the price…

    …then I knew…

    …The CHEROKEE WAS A WINNER.

    Now – it’s time for Chrysler to bring back the Dodge Magnum and Pacifica.

    Now you have a transmission, a AWD system, a decent interior, a set of engines to choose from and the BEST INFOTAINMENT ON THE MARKET.

    It’s time to take over…

    • 0 avatar
      sportyaccordy

      *yawn*

      Are you getting paid on a per post basis?

    • 0 avatar
      Austin Greene

      I think the Urban Dictionary just picked up a new definition for fanboi.

    • 0 avatar
      tresmonos

      TL;DR

    • 0 avatar
      George B

      Bigtruck their must be regional differences. I can’t remember seeing a Cherokee on the road here in North Texas. The Charger, Challenger, Chrysler 300, and Jeep Grand Cherokee are popular here. Hemi V8 + Mercedes DNA = Win! Ram pickup trucks are very popular here along with The Dodge and Chrysler minivans and the Jeep Wrangler. The Fiat 500 also seems to have a following. What isn’t selling well around here so far is the combination of Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep brand with Fiat DNA in the Dart and Cherokee.

      • 0 avatar

        You live in TEXAS. I live in NYC (northeast).

        This latest bombardment of “polar vortexes” has left the words “ALL WHEEL DRIVE” the latest catchphrase on everyone’s lips. Whoever makes the most inexpensive “all wheel drive” here is the defacto winner.

        I see Cherokees EVERYWHERE. Darts too.

        But I agree – RWD HEMI are the next best thing to a “truck” down there. Either one is like having a massive “AMERICA” tattoo on your body.

        • 0 avatar
          rdchappell

          The cheapest AWD is definitely not the Cherokee.

          • 0 avatar
            joeveto3

            I was not a fan, but I saw it at the NAIAS. A dark blue specimen, with dark blue and brown leather, it was really sharp. The mileage is darn good too. I left thinking I’d like to test drive one.

          • 0 avatar
            sportyaccordy

            Maybe not on purchase price, but probably on monthly payments.

          • 0 avatar
            OldandSlow

            The Cherokee styling must be a NYC/New Jersey thing. Darts are few and far between, too.

            I’ve seen three on the road during the past month and a half here in Austin. Upon seeing the Cherokee up close, it ain’t as homely as a Juke – but the Juke does look better from the rear. FIAT could have been more generous with the real estate for the tail lights.

            A base AWD Subaru Forester with a manual transmission is $24K locally.

        • 0 avatar
          Superdessucke

          So you mean a bunch of morons are going to be trading in Cherokees in the spring of ’15 because they impulsively based a vehicle purchase decision on an anomoly of a winter? Sound like a no-lose to me. Sign me up!

        • 0 avatar
          Advance_92

          “This latest bombardment of “polar vortexes” has left the words “ALL WHEEL DRIVE” the latest catchphrase on everyone’s lips. Whoever makes the most inexpensive “all wheel drive” here is the defacto winner.”

          How about just shelling out $700 for some snow tires mounted on a spare set of wheels? Of course you’ll pay a lot more for an SUV…

        • 0 avatar
          dude500

          I’ve only seen 2 Cherokees and 3 Darts, ever, in the NYC area. I noticed them because they are so rare. Of those, I only see 1 of each regularly parked on a driveway: a Cherokee in a house in Nyack, the other in New Windsor. I haven’t seen either in Manhattan.

          • 0 avatar
            fredtal

            West of Houston TX I’m seeing a lime green Dart on my commute for the last few weeks. Easy to spot :) Have yet to see a Cherokee. The dealers near me have a few with “more on the way.”

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        I’ve only seen one of these in the wilds of Northern Canada. If it really had some offroad prowess there’d be more of them. Jeep Wrangler Unlimited’s are the popular item around here for the wannabe offroad “I’m too cool for a normal SUV” crowd.

    • 0 avatar
      ash78

      I live in an affluent burb in the heart of the Deep South and have yet to see a single one. I see 1st and 2nd-gen Cherokees as daily drivers several times a day. New GC’s are everywhere, as well. Liberties, Compasses, Patriots, and of course, Wranglers (mostly 4-door). I’d like to think people here have a decent sense of style and are steering clear of the new Cherokee on looks along.

      Remember, the plural of anecdotes is “data” :D

  • avatar
    fredtal

    There is a video on this page http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/02/talking-cars-24-jeep-cherokee-mazda3/index.htm Gives you a good perspective on the CR reviewers.

    • 0 avatar
      WaftableTorque

      Watching the Cherokee section, they struck me as normal, well educated car enthusiasts who were having an intelligent conversation about cars. It could have been a bunch of TTAC commentators getting together for coffee and donuts.

      By the time they got to it’s 4000lb curb weight for the 4 cylinder, it was pretty clear that it had it’s pro’s and con’s, with the latter being the bigger pile.

  • avatar
    mjz

    I’ve been reading actual owner reviews of the Cherokee, and so far, they have been overwhelmingly positive. Actual owners seem to LOVE the Cherokee. They praise the build quality, interior comfort and performance. I have not read any complaints about the transmission at all. That’s good enough for me.

    • 0 avatar
      Tim_Turbo

      Of course they do. They researched it. Compared it to other vehicles (maybe) and chose it over the others. Made a decision to spend a sizeable chunk of money on it.

      It’s new enough that the owners are still in the “Honeymoon Stage”. Where everything is fantastic! I would wager a bet if you ask people in the first few months of ownership how they like their new car, the vast majority of the responses would be positive.

      Lets check the reviews in say, a year, and see what people have to say then.

      And for the record-I actually like the vehicle, and have driven several examples.

      • 0 avatar
        mjz

        The point is that actual owners are not reporting these issues that seemed to annoy Derek and Consumer Reports at all. Derek and CR did not have the Cherokee for a year, so that point is irrelevant. I read enough of these owner reviews of various cars to know that actual owners WILL bitch big time about stuff they don’t like right off the bat. And that hasn’t been the case at all with the Cherokee so far from what I’ve seen.

        • 0 avatar
          jeffzekas

          The thing is: all the reviewers loved the original Dodge minivan, and it was one of the most unreliable, most poorly made vehicles ever produced… yet lots of folks bought them. Go figure.

        • 0 avatar
          sportyaccordy

          Folks can be a little reluctant to slam a car they just signed up to pay $25-35K for. Not saying the problems are/aren’t real but just that new owners are hardly unbiased sources.

      • 0 avatar
        CoreyDL

        +1

      • 0 avatar
        sgeffe

        Re: “Honeymoon Stage”: Correct!

        That’s starting to wear off on my 2013 Accord because of a couple minor squeaks and rattles, which probably wouldn’t bother other folks, but I’m OCD about that stuff.

        The noises probably wouldn’t have presented as problems this early in the game, except for the extreme cold, plus snow-rutted streets I’ve had to drive upon during this interminable winter in northern Ohio!

        (And yes, I’ll be able to get them taken care of at the dealer or on my own, but again, with my OCD-ness on this subject, it’s a little bit of a letdown.)

  • avatar
    Austin Greene

    Here’s my thing: the minute that TTAC and CR agree on something either Hell just froze over or someone jumped the shark.

    Since CR jumped the shark sometime around 1978, it can’t be them. So it must be Chrysler.

    • 0 avatar
      Ubermensch

      You might want to watch the video that fredtal linked to before you think that CR has jumped the shark.

      http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/02/talking-cars-24-jeep-cherokee-mazda3/index.htm

      The auto reviewers know what they are talking about and have a few genuine enthusiasts among them.

  • avatar
    NMGOM

    Derek – - –

    You may wish to circle the wagons around you, but in my view, your colleague -in-arms is questionable at best and stupid at worst. CR is the last pace I would even go for a comprehensive, knowledgeable car review. Maybe they should stick to reviewing washing machines and CD players…..if they still exist. See their ridiculous Jeep Wrangler review in the link attached:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkhZTINmgr8

    ——————–

    • 0 avatar
      Ubermensch

      This is such a tired and trite argument and it bears no resemblance to reality. Anyone who has actually been paying attention to CRs reviews instead of just reading snark on enthusiasts sites will recognize this.

    • 0 avatar
      Ubermensch

      Also, after watching that review I see that you also must have some comprehension issues. The reviewer admires the off-road prowess of the Wrangler but makes it abundantly clear throughout the review that they are reviewing it from the perspective of how MOST buyers will use them as an on-road daily driver. After driving and riding in a friends Wrangler I feel that the review is spot on. It is a miserable experience especially on the highway. Or don’t you think this is information that a buyer should have so that the Jeep faithful can have their feelings spared?

  • avatar
    sirwired

    Say what you will about CR; they’ve been delivering The Truth About Cars for a lot longer than TTAC. Now, reasonable people might disagree with some of their conclusions, but they’ve been at the “We Don’t Care What the PR Department Says” game since Day 1 as they’ve always used anonymously-purchased cars instead of press fleets.

    I also happen to think their reliability data, though not perfect, is still substantially better than any other source.

    EDIT: I’m reading the review now… while they refrain from colorful language and metaphors, they pull no punches. They call the 4-cyl “Pathetic” on multiple occasions. The transmission “manages to combine almost every negative trait that a transmission can have, exhibiting them randomly and unpredictably.” Them’s fightin’ words, which CR has never been afraid to utter about tested products.

    • 0 avatar
      Austin Greene

      Paging Michael Karesh.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      The trouble is, there is more than one Truth. What matters to ME may not be what matters to YOU. Or Consumer Reports.

      The Wrangler review is in many ways absolutely spot on. But completely irrelevant to any of the people who buy them.

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        Good point on the Wrangler. It’s an off-road/apocalypse bugout vehicle that drives reasonably well on smooth pavement without compromising it’s off-road chops. CR reviewers think it’s a CAR.

        The same thing happened in the late ’60s/early ’70s, when baby boomers were young, skinny, and limber, and loved them those VW bugs, British sports cars, and sporty Alfas and Fiats. The apparently middle aged reviewers didn’t think much of those vehicles, and gave their highest marks to full size Detroit iron with now-reliable V-8 engines and automatics, power-everything and AC too.

        CR has always struck me as reviewing for 30-something families, regardless of their reviewer profiles, so that may be a factor, but each generation (of buyers and reviewers) has its own preferences, tempered by the times they live in. It makes assessing cars, and assessing reviews of cars, a bit dicey.

        • 0 avatar
          jeffzekas

          Actually, CR loves the 911 Porsche and Corvette- so, no, it’s not just a generational thing- fun cars are fun cars, family cars are family cars, and unreliable poorly handling cars are just that.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            None of which have anything to do with what a Wrangler is and that’s where CR screwed up. They didn’t review it based on what it was designed to do

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        That’s the perfect example and why I don’t put much value on CR’s auto review. When you’re review cars like toasters to people who think cars are toasters it’s a whole different process then when you review cars for people who like and understand them

        • 0 avatar
          Boxer2500

          They’re just writing for their core audience. CR car reviews are written from the perspective of someone who sees cars as nothing more than major appliances. We’re not in their target audience, and that’s OK.

      • 0 avatar
        rushn

        “The Wrangler review is in many ways absolutely spot on. But completely irrelevant to any of the people who buy them.”

        Most people buy them to look cool in parking lots. Not to off-road. It’s even true in off-road heaven like Arizona. Getting most new Wrangler drivers even on a dirt trail requires sedatives.

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      I have never seen the word “mediocre” used more than in CR; this going back to the 1980s at least!

  • avatar
    azmtbkr81

    The Cherokee is an uninspired, also-ran CUV that has very little to do with Jeeps. Yawn.

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      But the market for an uninspired, also-ran CUV with The Jeep name on it is much bigger than the one for traditional Jeeps. The market for the hard-core Jeeps isn’t big enough to stay in business: the old Wagoneer and 2WD Cherokee of the mid-’70s helped pay for the CJ-5.

      • 0 avatar
        azmtbkr81

        The market is definitely big enough, the Wrangler does not need any subsidization. Jeep can’t build Wranglers fast enough and sold more Wranglers in 2013 than the Compass and Patriot combined. Hell, in 2013 Jeep sold more Wranglers alone than some smaller brands sell across all of their models!

        Grainy surfer-bro commercials aside, there is really no reason to choose a Cherokee over a CRV, Escape, or RAV4. The Jeep name didn’t win many customers for the Compass and Patriot and it won’t with the Cherokee either. The only thing that the Cherokee is good for is watering down Jeep’s brand.

        • 0 avatar
          MLS

          Well, there’s the (objectively) best-in-class off-road capability, and (subjectively) superior style.

          • 0 avatar
            azmtbkr81

            “Well, there’s the (objectively) best-in-class off-road capability”

            Where have you seen that? All of the reviews I’ve read put it about equal with the Patriot which isn’t a very high bar.

            I think the fact that the Cherokee has an optional low range and rear locker gives the impression of capability while ignoring the fact that it has a poor approach angle and suspension, bumpers, steering, undercarriage, and axles from a cheap compact car.

          • 0 avatar
            Hummer

            “Best in class offroad capability”

            Did the competition include the mountain goat esque Prius?
            The mud-slinging Honda civic?
            Or perhaps the river forging Mercedes S-class?

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          “The Jeep name didn’t win many customers for the Compass and Patriot and it won’t with the Cherokee either.”

          What gives you that idea? Compass and Patriot combined sold 140,000 units in north america in 2013. That’s a lot of vehicles sold in a segment where Jeep didn’t have a model prior to their introduction.

          • 0 avatar
            azmtbkr81

            http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2014/01/usa-small-suv-crossover-sales-figures-december-2013-year-end.html

            It’s a pretty poor showing for the two: 7th place with sales combined and 13th for the somewhat better selling Patriot.

            The point I am driving at is that Jeep’s two current best sellers by a very large margin are its most capable off-road models so why mess with success?

            Jeep had an opportunity with the Cherokee to create something unique like the Wrangler and GC but instead chose to put compact car on steroids (like every other manufacturer in the world) and hope buyers wouldn’t notice. I have a feeling they will.

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            The Compatriot is a split model, combined they sell in decent numbers which refutes was you said about them not finding any customers. I see you’ve edited your statement to make better sense. Good.

            “Jeep had an opportunity with the Cherokee to create something unique like the Wrangler and GC but instead chose to put compact car on steroids (like every other manufacturer in the world) and hope buyers wouldn’t notice. I have a feeling they will.”

            Customers have noticed and it’s what they want. I’m not sure why you’re lumping the Grand Cherokee in with the Wrangler as a real Jeep and accusing the KL Cherokee of being a poseur. The GC’s construction is vastly more similar to the KL Cherokee than it is to the Wrangler.

          • 0 avatar
            azmtbkr81

            No idea what you are talking about with the edit, what part didn’t make sense to you? Are you even reading the right post?

            If you think 7th place (which is generous considering they are still separate vehicles) is successful you must not work in a competitive industry.

            You are wrong about the construction, the GC was designed from the ground up as an SUV (being based on the Mercedes ML) and while it may have a unibody all it takes a single look underneath to realize how different it is from the Cherokee. The GC looks like a truck and the Cherokee looks like a Dodge Dart. My Mazda 3 has beefier control arms than the Cherokee.

            Customers who want what the Cherokee has to offer buy CRVs.

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            My mistake about the edit, you didn’t change it. Regarding the Compatriot twins, I didn’t say anything about successful (although 140k units ain’t bad). I pointed out those vehicles did bring a significant amount of customers to the Jeep brand, refuting your statement that they brought none. Try and stay on track here.

            As far as the JGC is concerned, yes it’s off-road capable, but not particularly more so than the Cherokee. The JGC is not technically any more of a “truck” than a Cherokee is at all. What does “looks like a truck” underneath mean anyway? Most people would think solid axles and leaf springs, it’s ambiguous. The JGC has a fully independent multi-link suspension which equally resembles that of many cars in size of components and construction. The KL Cherokee is smaller and lighter than the JGC, so naturally the parts used will be scaled down. They don’t need to be the same size to achieve the same durability.

            “…and while it may have a unibody all it takes a single look underneath to realize how different it is from the Cherokee. The GC looks like a truck and the Cherokee looks like a Dodge Dart.”

            All this statement proves is that you haven’t actually compared the suspensions of the Dart and Cherokee. In the rear especially, they use entirely different components with different geometry.

          • 0 avatar
            azmtbkr81

            “Try and stay on track here.”

            Seriously? Here are my exact words, again, to help eliminate any confusion.

            “The Jeep NAME didn’t win MANY customers”

            In even simpler terms, both the Compass and Patriot are positioned about where you’d expect on the sales charts for the very mediocre CUVs that they are, regardless of what badge they wear. The Jeep name has not had any sort of magic halo effect on either vehicle as evidenced by the less than stellar sales.

            Furthermore since both are sold as Jeeps, they’ve been judged more harshly by the 4×4 community than perhaps they deserve. “FourWheeler” Magazine says that “It’s (the Cherokee) in danger of having its picture hung next to Compass and Patriot on the wall of shame.” I can’t imagine Fiat is happy with that sort of commentary, which is about 1000 times harsher than anything Derek said, can you? Why would Fiat subject themselves to that sort of criticism? If the Cherokee were sold as a Fiat or Dodge it would avoid that sort of scrutiny entirely.

            If you don’t believe me look up pictures of the Cherokee and Grand Cherokee for yourself and compare. The overall stoutness of the cross members, suspension brackets, control arms, drive shafts, bolts, steering components etc etc is superior on the GC. If I’m spending $30k+ on a vehicle that I have any intention of driving off-road those things matter greatly.

            There is one close-up picture of the steering rack on the Cherokee that is especially telling. The steering rack is stamped with “Alfa Romeo.” I don’t know of anything Alfa Romeo makes that would be considered even remotely off-road capable. If that’s not enough look up reviews from magazines and websites that have driven the Cherokee on more than just a dirt road and you’ll find they mirror the one from “FourWheeler.”

            The Cherokee is a CUV. Pretending it has any more off-road capability than a Subaru, and giving it a name like “Trail Hawk” is a disingenuous joke that will continue to damage Jeep’s reputation in the same way the Compass and Patriot already have.

  • avatar
    Kyree S. Williams

    You don’t seem like a person who’d give a car a bad or damning review out of spite, and so I thank you for living up to The *Truth* About Cars. I hope Chrysler Group has fixed the pre-production niggles, because it looks awesome and is packed with features that other cars in the class are not…

  • avatar
    wstarvingteacher

    I don’t visit this site because of your popularity with the manufacturers. If you are here to be popular you won’t deliver TTAC.

  • avatar
    BrunoT

    “Some people are in charge of pens that shouldn’t be in charge of brooms
    They have the nerve to rip up a man’s life in a paragraph or two”

    Graham Parker – Don’t let it break you down

    This could have been an accurate review, I don’t know I haven’t driven the thing. But the degree of nit-picking and niggling over cars in reviews has gotten out of control.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    Considering that CR seems to favor mind-numbing Japanese beigemobiles, using them as a “See, we told you” doesn’t really flatter you. I appreciated your candor on the new Jeep considering it would be on my short list for purchase, but I wouldn’t consult CR for anything more complex then a dishwasher

    • 0 avatar
      JMII

      And what sells? Japanese beigemobiles. So is this a chicken or egg senario? Does boring sell because CR says XYZ beigemobile is good, or does boring sell because people in general actually like such vehicles and CR has just tapped into that mind set?

      In genearal I find the CR reports are pretty good, if they complain about something then is a real issue a consumer is going to notice. If CR says the steering is nub then its clearly overally nub. Granted CR’s priorities are way different then mine so I understand how to read between the lines. I’m sure they would say my 350Z is too rough and loud, and my wife (as well as most) would agree, because the Z really isn’t the right car for most (and certainly not my wife).

      The real question here is how high is the BS level in those other (not CR / non TTAC) car reviews? And I think we all know that answer.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        “The real question here is how high is the BS level in those other (not CR / non TTAC) car reviews?”

        Well, that’s the reason I come here. I agree with your assessment of CR. They report on automobile like appliances for people who view their cars as such, that’s not me

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        Most people just don’t care enough to care. If the car rarely breaks and gets them from point A to point B, that is good enough. And that is what sells.

    • 0 avatar
      HerrKaLeun

      if Porsche made reliable cars, CR woul recommend them. But the first step is making good cars.

      This may be anecdotal, but everyone I know wants a reliable, inexpensive, safe and practical car. No one beyond TTAC cares abour 0-60 speed and Nurburgring times.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        Porsche DOES make reliable cars, in the context of their actual competition in the marketplace. You can use a 911 as a daily driver – MANY people do just that. It will not be inexpensive to run, but it will not be ruinous either ala a Ferrari or Lamborghini.

        CR would complain that a 911 rides harshly, has no back seat room, and has a small trunk. And it handles funny. Which are all absolutely, positively true statements. And completely and utterly irrelevant. No one who buys one will give a crap about any of that.

        • 0 avatar
          HerrKaLeun

          Having expensive repairs all the time is not reliable. Sure Porsche drivers may not care about backseats and they can filter that part out of the review. The same way every truck will get bad marks for fuel economy.
          But I challenge you to bring up one Porsche driver to say he looks forward to have to go to the shop more frequently than normal car driver and pay 10 times for what the repair would cost for normal cars. Sure it is not a Civic, but there is no excuse for those repair needs. A 1000hp engine car could be made as reliable as a 100 hp car.

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            Define “all the time”. I know a number of people who own Porsches. They are not walking anywhere. When the car does go in the shop, it is expensive to fix. This should not be in any way surprising. $15K cars have $15K car issues. $80K cars have $80K car issues. To expect otherwise is just silly. It is no different with any other piece of machinery – it costs a heck of a lot more to fly an F-14 than a Cessna 152.

            The Japanese don’t even make $100K cars that are cheap to run. The maintenance (and tires!) on a daily driven GT-R will bankrupt a mere mortal.

          • 0 avatar
            HerrKaLeun

            So you say a $70K Lexus/Infinity has as many expensive repairs as a same price Porsche?
            I realize an expensive car is expensive, but did you ever read Jack’s Porsche articles here?
            For airplanes, larger planes are more reliable than Cesnas (Thank goodness or we had crashes every day)

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            One is an exotic sports car the other a luxury daily driver. they’re not really comparable

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            Actually, based on a family member’s Lexus experience, I would say the running costs are actually fairly comparable. Lexus are not as cheap as you imagine they are, and Porsches are not as unreliable and expensive. The truth, as always, is in the middle ground. You can’t run a Porsche on a Corolla budget, but you can’t run an LS460 on one either.

            I have long since stopped giving any credence to Jack’s whining on the subject of Porsche. He is just like the fabled rich woman who lives in a stunning 30 room mansion and goes on about how good help is so hard to find these days. Yet he still manages to own THREE of them.

            We are well off the topic at hand at this point so I will circle back with my thoughts on the Cherokee itself. I think it looks great inside and out. It has an interesting selling proposition in that it is the only CUV its size with real off-road capability for whatever that is worth. It seems to have some interesting transmission technology that needs some fine-tuning still, but probably is not a deal-killer for the average buyer. Not my cup of tea but I can see the appeal, and I hope FCA sells a ton of them. On the other hand, I personally will never, ever buy the first year of any new vehicle, as I fully understand what the term “Beta Tester” means.

      • 0 avatar
        rpn453

        “This may be anecdotal, but everyone I know wants a reliable, inexpensive, safe and practical car. No one beyond TTAC cares abour 0-60 speed and Nurburgring times.”

        I’ve always considered the TTAC community to be closer to the practical end of the car spectrum, as far as car guys go.

    • 0 avatar
      jeffzekas

      After my son bought a Porsche Boxster with an IMS bearing failure at 50,000 miles, I decided NOT to buy a Porsche… That experience, and the cost of my buddy’s 911 valve job ($5,000 at the time) and the quoted $15,000 for an engine rebuild (on a Porsche that had a bluebook value of $20K) were deciding factors in getting a Miata instead.

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      Not only the Japanese “beigemobiles” — in the early 200s (when reliability was nonexistent), the VW Passat was constantly at the top of the CR heap, outdistancing the Camry and Accord, both I-4 and V6s.

  • avatar
    FreedMike

    Have any of the major publications done a full road test of this vehicle, versus the first-drive review?

  • avatar
    oldowl

    Alex Dykes’s preliminary Cherokee review on TTAC is one I favor over CR’s.

    CR video reviews are shallow and often peevish. Do you yearn for yet another incisive comment on A-pillar and rear window size? You won’t be disappointed.

    Dykes promised a more detailed review of the Cherokee. May it appears soon.

  • avatar
    HerrKaLeun

    Thanks TTAC for just reporting and not repeating all th PR revies all the other magazines have.

    How long has it been available anyway? I don’t hink any owner is beyond honeymoon yet. If both TTAC and CR independently critisize the tranny, that is good enough for me. if you buy a Chrysler with all new 9-speed tranny anyway, you have been warned. Just don’t come back later wasting our time asking for advice how to sell the car, or fix it, when you have your $5K tranny repair.

    Trannies are the weak spot in all cars these days, why take a chance with a manufactuere that (until into bankruptcy) was never able to produce quality cars? Oh, yes, now they belong to Fiat, how comforting.

    • 0 avatar
      AlternateReality

      Glad to see someone understands the situation, and long-established automotive history.

      • 0 avatar
        HerrKaLeun

        “He who doesn’t understand history is doomed to repeat it”

        this is what fanboys have to go through :)

        If honda/toyota would come out with 9-speed tranny today, I would wait at least a year to even consider (and I’m a very very cosnervative appliance buyer who values reliability over almost everything – so I’m a natural Toyonda fan)

        • 0 avatar
          mjz

          Why do you automatically assume there are problems with the transmission ITSELF, when the problems have always been with the PROGRAMMING of the transmission shift logic. Your assumption that this will somehow affect the longevity and durability of it is completely unfounded. It is a ZF design, and if ZF is good enough for BMW to use, it’s good enough for the damn Cherokee.

          • 0 avatar
            th009

            I thought that BMW were regarded as the devil’s spawn by the B&B as far as reliability goes?

          • 0 avatar
            HerrKaLeun

            First of all, it is built by chrysler and was modified after the ZF design.

            Second, even if ZF makes good trannies, this doesn’t mean Chrysler ordered a good one. Many suppliers both supply toyot and AND Daewoo (ahem, GM). does that mean Daewoo has the same quality as toyota? no… suppliers built and design to the spec (and the price) the car manufacturer orders. The same factory in china produces the cheapest Walmart throwaway toy, and the most expensive iPad. It is all about what the costumer ordered and paid for.

            I’m don’t automatically assume it is bad becasue it seems to shift funny. thsi indeed coudl jsut be a programming issue… at minimum thsi speaks for sloppy programming, especially witht he delay that was supposed to irin everything out.

            The facts are that 9-speed is unprecedendet, complex and Chrysler traditionally built shitty cars. i know this is not proof for failure of the niew tranny. Proof will be in a few years. No one has to accept tmy opinion.. go out and buy one. but I for myslef don’t buy one becasue i don’t trust them. Maybe my reason are not rational, but that is how branding works.

          • 0 avatar
            jeffzekas

            the009: BMW are COMPLETELY reliable… if you spend $4,000 a year on maintenance and replace parts before they break! (spoken by a former owner of 4 BMW vehicles).

  • avatar
    billfrombuckhead

    So TTAC is now hiding behind those experts at Consumer Reports. ROFL.

    BTW, the Cherokee is selling extremely well, the only ones sitting are the Sports with clear windows and a stamped steel wheels, Limiteds and Trailhawks are like gold.

    The Cherokee is a world car where that 9th gear will get used on the Autobahn, Autostrada, the wilds of Texas, that lonely stretch of I20 between Atlanta and Augusta, the Australian outback, Saudi Arabia and the rest of the world.

    BTW, what about TTAC quoting anonymous sources before the 200 came out that backseat was too small? Impeccable journalism there, not. TTAC exists to provide false narratives about American cars to get JapanInc and chaebol advertising, that’s why the trumpeting of another BS ConsumerReports hatchet job on a Jeep that they don’t understand. When Jeep passes Hyundai in sales later this year, TTAC will be in mourning.

    BTW, TTAC buddy Krafcik deserved to be fired for being lying about Hyundai gas mileage.

    TTAC continues to tell everyone that American vehicles get bad gas mileage when a Pentastar Ram gets 100 more miles per tank of gas than a V6 Tundra and beats a Tacoma.

    • 0 avatar
      AlternateReality

      Oh, go drive a Dart.

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        I’ve been daily driving a Dart Limited with a manual transmission for 10 months now and I think it’s great. Do you have 10 months of seat time in a Dart? I doubt it. You probably haven’t even test driven one – you just repeat internet BS about the car. The autojournos who feel the car is underpowered apparently didn’t suffer through diesel Chevettes and 3-cyl Subaru Justys in the 1980s – not surprising since most of them were probably born in the 80′s and only got their driver’s licenses by the time cars had improved dramatically.

        With a 1.4T and a manual, a Dart is not slow unless you don’t know how to drive a small engine that enjoys being revved to get the most out of it.

        • 0 avatar
          AlternateReality

          I did check a Dart out on the showroom floor of the local Fiasler store. I had no desire whatsoever to waste my money on one, but I wanted to see what the fuss was about. Maybe Fiasler had found religion?

          Now, this was probably about 7-8 months after the car’s introduction, so one would think that enough time had gone by for the fine UAW worker bees to figure out how to slap on the hood correctly, or to line up the dashboard instrument inset with the surrounding soft plastic without a huge gap towards the passenger side. Nope. Maybe they got those things right after 9 months… or this particular example was built on Bring Your Reefer to Work Friday?

          Sure enough, I don’t have 10 months of seat time in a Dart. That is because I knew better than to take a chance on the first year, mongrel offspring from two of history’s most mediocre automakers. My issues with the Dart have nothing to do with its (rather underwhelming) performance, and everything to do with the inevitable results we’re now seeing from its dubious lineage.

          • 0 avatar
            Wheeljack

            I’ve had less problems with my Dart than my sister had with her 2 Acuras, both of which were piles of overhyped garbage. In fact, My old ’88 Merkur Scorpio has been more reliable overall than either Acura was for my sister, not to mention the fact that the interior of that old Merkur looked and held up better than the interior in her RL did. The final nail in the coffin for the RL was transmission problems at not much over 100K.

            So it seems your real issue is unions. You do know Japanese worker bees are unionized too, right? I sit behind my share of Toyota/Honda/Nissan/etc. vehicles and see misaligned trunklids, poor fitting tail lights or other pieces of trim all the time. This is not a unique problem.

            Any time you have humans involved with a process, there is the potential for mistakes – especially with panels that need to have a gap around them to make sure they don’t make contact inappropriately. That said, my Dart hood fits perfectly and so does my dash panel, so our individual “samples of one” represent both ends of the spectrum. The difference between us is that I’m not willing to condemn and entire product line because of a sample of one.

          • 0 avatar
            AlternateReality

            UAW assembly is but one reason why the Dart was never on my shopping list, and it’s towards the bottom… much like Dart sales numbers (BAH-zing!)

            At the very top of my list is the Dart’s Fiat/Chrysler bloodline, and 80+ years of history indicating how awful such an automotive bastard is likely to be.

          • 0 avatar
            Wheeljack

            Considering that Chrysler hasn’t had a credible entry in this segment for almost a decade, I’d say the sales aren’t all that bad. I’m sure they aren’t happy with it, but it takes a while to rebuild a presence in a market where you were essentially absent.

            Also, basing opinions of the future based on the past isn’t always wise. Just look at the people who bought Hondas and Acuras with the failure-prone automatic transmissions. They based their purchase decision on a past history that suggested reliability. Unfortunately in those cases, that past history turned out to be a poor indicator of the future.

    • 0 avatar
      Austin Greene

      Is this the truth about TTAC?

    • 0 avatar
      HerrKaLeun

      “TTAC continues to tell everyone that American vehicles get bad gas mileage when a Pentastar Ram gets 100 more miles per tank of gas than a V6 Tundra and beats a Tacoma.:

      you realize we measure miles per unit of fuel(ideally fuel per mile), and not per tank???? what’s next, I put a 1000 galon tank on my truck so I can best the Prius in “miles per tank”?

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        I saw what he did there, the Ram has an available 74 frickin’ gallon tank

      • 0 avatar
        Hummer

        I actually enjoy the whole measuring how far a car goes on a tank of gas being somehow equal to the vehicles fuel economy.

        People with no idea of the world around them assume all tanks are the same size. Someone will refer to my gas mileage, and talk about ther ability to go such and such miles on their car, only to have their mind blown an H2 can go the same distance.

        Yea 360 miles is easily achievable ( just leave out the whole 32 gallon tank dealio)

        • 0 avatar
          billfrombuckhead

          The POS TRDyota Tundra actually has a bigger tank! 26.4 gallons for the sewing machine makers flimsy junk box of a truck with a weak frame to 26 for the world beating Ram with best ride, best interior, most advanced transmission, best aerodynamics and best gas mileage.

          The almost 100 more miles a tankful just more dramatically rubs it in Chrysler haters faces. That extra fill up once a month or so gets people’s attention. Go actually look at the EPA MPG website rather talk out of your butts TRDyota fanbois. Read it and weep.

          http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34499&id=34249

          As for the Cherokee, TTAC doth protest far too much.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            You can get a 32gal tank on the crew cab a significant range extender, the 74 gal double tank is only available on the big trucks, my bad

          • 0 avatar
            rdchappell

            My guess is that in 8-10 years we will really see which truck is the “junk box”. Hint: it’s probably not the Toyota.

          • 0 avatar
            billfrombuckhead

            Ram is Canada’s longest lasting truck, not the bed bouncing TRDyota rust buckets that even Tundra’s fanboi website admits has a flawed frame. Just a statistical fact.

            Maybe if TRDyota replaces the frames like they have had to do in the past?

            Just because CR buys it’s test vehicles is no proof it isn’t biased. CR has a self selecting audience it caters to just like Faux News that likes to hear what they want to hear.

          • 0 avatar
            Wheeljack

            Every time I go out to Colorado I see an awful lot of 1980′s/early 90′s Dodge Rams still being used for what they were made for – especially if they have the Cummins engine. The eastern plains are full of old pickups from the big three still being used as actual trucks on working farms and ranches.

            On the other hand, I rarely see any of the old 80′s Toyota pickups – they all rotted away years ago, and Colorado isn’t even known for heavy salt use like the midwest. And it isn’t because they didn’t sell any of them there. I grew up in Colorado and Toyota pickups were thick as flies back in the 1980′s. So were Datsun/Nissan trucks and they’re all gone now too.

        • 0 avatar
          CoreyDL

          “Gas prices don’t affect me, I always just put in $10!”

    • 0 avatar
      KalapanaBlack

      Hell, minus maybe the Autostrada the Toyota Avalon is a world car by your definition. They even built the first generation in Australia.

      How is this somehow a gold star for the Cherokee? The old AMC-built Cherokee was crazy popular in China, and sold in the Middle East and Russia. Two of those three markets weren’t in your post. So was it more of a world car?

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        “The old AMC-built Cherokee was crazy popular in China, and sold in the Middle East and Russia”

        Of course they were a wildly popular “world car”. There’s a whole lot of world without roads

      • 0 avatar
        billfrombuckhead

        Yugos were world cars, just not a successful one. Grand Cherokee is now outselling the TRDyota Prado in JapanInc’s Austalian backyard, expect Cherokee to also be successful overseas, certainly more successful than the Avalon. Just look at the crazy high prices Jeeps bring in China so building this world Jeep in China makes sense especially with the possibility of flooding Australia, the Middleeast and other markets with low cost Chinese Cherokee production.

        At some point, there may also be a high performance Cherokee even an SRT variation or Alfa Romeo variation, so the 9 speed does make good sense.

        Mopar über Alles!

  • avatar
    jbltg

    No matter what, this fugly thing is still an abomination, inside and out.

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      The inside is actually very tasteful and stylish. I’m not sure what pictures you are looking at.

      • 0 avatar
        AlternateReality

        wheeljack, you admit to owning a Dart. As such, your idea of what constitutes style, taste, or quality is certainly questionable, at best.

        • 0 avatar
          Wheeljack

          This coming from an Acura owner. Silly beak nose and ZDX anyone?

          • 0 avatar
            AlternateReality

            Ooooo, snappy comeback! Also pretty much what I’d expect from someone who, upon seeing Fiasler’s very first attempt at a Fiat/Chrysler cross-breed, immediately cried “TAKE MY MONEY!” instead of responding with appropriate skepticism and caution.

          • 0 avatar
            Wheeljack

            A snappy comback deserving of your insult to my taste and evaluation of what consititues quality and style. Unlike you Hacura fanbois, quality for me isn’t just about whether the car ever broke and the dashboard has an equal gap side-to-side within +/- 0.01 mm, it’s a much broader thing than that.

            I evaluated the car objectively and test drove several examples with different features and powertrains. I didn’t much care for the 2.0L, but I found the 1.4T to be zippy when paired with a manual, and I found the chassis to be nicely balanced between handling and a reasonably compliant ride. I also monitored the forums for many months before making my purchase, and it was clear that many of the initial teething issues were quickly solved and buyers of later cars were universally happy and reporting much fewer, if any, issues.

            Unlike you, I judged the car on it’s merits and didn’t associate any baggage with it’s lineage. The car has a warranty, so if there are any issues I will avail myself of that warranty. I choose not to drive a boring, vanilla car just because it is supposedly “reliable”, which many Honda/Acura products with automatic transmissions have proven themselves not to be.

            The bottom line is that The Dart hit all the buttons that I wanted, which included tech only available on more expensive cars (HID headlmaps, heated steering wheel, keyless go, etc.), a nice, well balanced chassis, a willing powertrain in the form of the 1.4T/6-speed manual, and a comfortable interior with nice leather, soft touch surfaces all around (at least on the Limited trim level) and a lot of little clever touches and storage cubbies. Nothing else in the segment, including the painfully dull and low-tech Civic even came close.

          • 0 avatar
            AlternateReality

            There’s nothing quite as beautifully hilarious as seen a dullard get uppity over his poor decisions. I hope your Dart continues to “hit your buttons,” at least until its engine blows up.

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            ” I hope your Dart continues to “hit your buttons,” at least until its engine blows up.”

            That’s not a statistically significant issue.

          • 0 avatar
            AlternateReality

            The statistics are still being written.

          • 0 avatar
            Wheeljack

            So let’s see – resorting to personal insults because I drive a car that is serving me well but which you have an irrational hatred of based on a cursory examination of what was most likely a base model in a showroom. Very douchey.

            Here’s the objective truth: My car now has about 80 miles shy of 20,000 miles on it and there’s no need to “defend” anything. It’s not like I bought a used Land Rover from the ’90′s – that would be a poor decision. My car has a warranty and many generally favorable reviews, if you put any stock in that sort of thing. It has also had precisely two problems:

            - The driver’s side wiper blade came apart at the start of this winter. Even though wiper blades are arguably a maintenance/wear item, both the driver and passenger side blades were happily replaced under warranty, no questions asked.

            - The fuel filler door was a bit overflush to the body. Many people may not have even cared, but it bothered me. I brought it in and there happened to be a customer satisfaction program for it (my letter hadn’t arrived yet) to replace the housing. They replaced the housing (not the actual door itself) and it now fits perfectly flush with the body.

            The car is also getting 28-30 mpg in stop and go traffic, and I do not baby it in any way – I deliberately leave the transmission in a gear that keeps the engine spinning at the speed where it starts to make boost so I won’t have any lag when I accelerate. Are there cars that get better mpg? Sure, but they aren’t cars that I’d want to drive. Plus, a few MPG wouldn’t save me much in the real world.

            My car is comfortable and it has a lot of nice features that make my commute as enjoyable as a 1-hour drive (that I’d rather not have to make) can be. So I guess that makes me a dullard. It’s far better than being a douchebag.

            And keep spreading unconfirmed speculation about the Edmunds car. I still don’t see an update to the story that says what happened yet, but let’s not let facts (or the lack thereof) get in the way, shall we?

            Based on they way they described the problem, my opinion is that the issue is more likely in the air induction system (i.e. a leak on the pressure side of the system – post turbo, in other words) or with the turbocharger itself. A turbocharger failure is not a “blown up” engine. Hopefully at some point they will post an update so the facts will be known. Until then, unlike you I will state that my opinion is pure speculation on my part. Maybe it’s just a bad computer? Maybe it is an engine failure? Who knows? Niether you nor I, that’s who.

  • avatar
    mattfarah

    Hey Derek-
    I trashed it too.

    http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2013/tst-podcast-91-iprostate/

    yes, this is a link to an audio podcast, but within that podcast, I went on about a 20 minute rant about how awful the Cherokee’s on-road dynamics and transmission were.

    I can’t wait for you to come drive my new mustang. you’ll love it
    MF

  • avatar
    Rombit

    If I am not mistaken, didn’t DK give the 14 JGCSRT a fairly GLOWING review a few years back??? Maybe I am looking at this the wrong way and perhaps its apples and oranges but a $65,000 performance Jeep with no off road abilities and a limited audience got a favorable review??? If there was any bias I would have expected to see it there. And for that matter Alex Dykes liked BOTH the Challenger SRT8 and the 300C SRT8.

    Yes when I first visited TTAC a few years back I sensed that anti-American car vibe but upon digesting many of the domestic reviews over the last several years I am pleasantly surprised by an even hand. I don’t agree with them on everything but they sure beat the vacuous glad handing of some of their lessor competitors.

    • 0 avatar
      HerrKaLeun

      I don’t think it was anti-american. Look at the cars the big 3 produced and consequently bankrupted them (Ford almost). It wasn’t only TTAC being against the B3, it was most consumers. Families that through generations religiously bought Ford/GM/Chrysler went Japanese/Korean/German because they didn’t want shitty cars and drown in repair bills.

  • avatar
    MrGreenMan

    Well Left Lane News has decided that the transmission is balky, The NY Times mentions in a mash note to Chrysler that the only complaints is a slow and unresponsive transmission. It doesn’t seem that different than the Ford Fiesta transmission a little while back, where they tried some new technology and had to tinker with the software for some time.

    It is inconceivable that the introduction of a 9-speed transmission in a vehicle of that size with pretensions of being all things to all people would not have a serious problem in the first six months of being either incompetent at one thing or the other. It’s clear who is absolutely untrustworthy (Freep…) and who went to the Japanese school of polite criticism.

    If the car is perfect on a new intro, one has to assume it’s going to sludge or grenade.

    • 0 avatar
      HerrKaLeun

      It indeed is a technological challenge and hence the idea to wait a year. Especially the firm that couldn’t even built 4-speed cars well.

      From last review it sounded the 9th gear only goes in above 80mph. So why making it so complex for a scenario no one legally really encounters. Why bot make it 7 or 8 gears and rather have it cheaper and more reliable? It also can’t help EPA cycle much sinxe that doesn’t go to 80 mph. And how many expirts to the German Autobahn do they think they get?

      • 0 avatar
        mjz

        The car is designed to be sold globally, so while we may not go over 80mph much here, there are other places in the world that do.

        • 0 avatar
          HerrKaLeun

          so they use the same motor and tranny in Germany where they maybe sell 5 of those(the only country with high speed streets) as in the US and most other countries that have low speed limits? And whoever drives that car in a high-speed country (mostly europe only) drives a diesel anyway. 9-speeds or not, at high speed the drag will eat all the fuel.

          I’m generally for using one standard car all over the world. But it has its limits with the different cultures, fuel prices, speed limits etc.

          Jsut think of the suspension differences. In Germany you need to be able to drive 120 mph while going straight like an arrow. in the US the car needs to be able to get over the speed bumps without having to replace suspension every 10 miles. this can’t be done by one single suspension.

          • 0 avatar
            krhodes1

            Oddly enough the Germans manage it. There is no particular difference between the suspension in any given BMW or MB or Porsche model that is sold on both sides of the pond. That German feel is after all a fundamental quality of those cars appeal to Americans. And I will grant you that maintaining that German feel requires more maintenance than some wallowing Toyota product. How could you even TELL if a Camry has worn shocks? They feel that way when they are new!

            My suspicion is that FCA could have just as easily sold this transmission as a 7spd or 8spd. The 9th gear may give some advantages in some situations, but ultimately it is just a software construct of engaging the various clutches and gears in a particular order. This is not unprecedented, there was a Chrysler transmission in the WJ Jeep Grand Cherokees that could be either a 4spd or a 5spd depending on the software in the transmission controller. The extra gear was effectively “free”. It may be that the biggest advantage of all is in marketing. They get to advertise more gears than anyone else for the moment.

          • 0 avatar
            HerrKaLeun

            But MB, Porsche and BMW aren’t really cars someone keeps for a long time in the US due to all the problems. Yes they drive great initially, but also wear out faster.

            This is exaclty what makes the Camry economical and also easy to sell used. It doesn’t do well at high-speed cornering, but you can drive it on US roads for 100K miles without noticing it getting worse. It just stays comfortable (I realize many at TTAC don’t like comfy, but sporty)

            Sure software can disable gears. But you need to physically make them, have the weight etc. And with a specific volume, each gear parts will be smaller compared to if it was only 7 speeds. So there is no free lunch, the 9th gear comes at the expense of the other gears.

            What is next? 12 gears with 12th gear engaging at 150 mph?

            Maybe I’m just uncomfortable with the quick change (less mature development process) in an indsutry that uses costumers as beta-testers. when we went from 4 to 5 gears, thee were some problems. Now msot go to 6 gears and thsi will be a long process with teethign process. but a sudden jump to 9 gears seems unrealistic and may not be mature. the actual engineering and eevelopment jsut is not so fast. All new technolgies (DSG, CVT) started out with problems. So better wait and see…

          • 0 avatar
            Wheeljack

            The 6th gear overdrive (0.50 to 1) in the Viper is effectively useless at legal speeds in the US…does that mean they should get rid of it?

      • 0 avatar
        marjanmm

        80 mph is 128 km/h. 130 km/h is the typical motorway limit in most Euro countries and since about 10% above the limit is regularly tolerated, you will very often see cars cruising at 90mph everywhere in Europe – not just autobahns.

  • avatar
    wmba

    Kind of looks like to me that CR auto testers should read those two recent articles by Alex Dykes here on TTAC.

    First, they’d learn something about how the ZF 9 speed works. Second, they would appreciate as Alex did, why the transmission acts as it does and comment appropriately.

    I believe their intellectual stand is to treat a product as a box, and to disregard any special characteristics, judging it only by their own parameters, which they assume mirrors that of everyman. This is the height of intellectual snobbery, of course.

    Their loudspeaker ratings were/are an utter joke and betray a total lack of understanding of what constitutes good, and furthermore no desire to learn anything worthwhile to make their judgments more based in reality.

    So, when you read what the “I’ve already made my mind up” brigade opines (on whatever subject you care to name), dispute their opinion with fact and then read the same dumb thing from them time after time after that, signifying that nothing new was allowed to enter their brain, you can feel free to deem such a person as unworthy of further interaction.

    Meanwhile, I always find it unseemly when an editor of a publication, in this case TTAC, publishes “justification” for their controversial position by quoting others who agree with them. Niedermeyer did it, Baruth does it, Schmitt was always at it, and now Kreindler joins the crowd.

    You either believe what you say, stand by it and defend it logically because you believe it’s the truth come what may, or you join the mass of mediocrity by co-opting “allies” for justification and allowing anyone with an axe to grind to have another go at you, because they sense you’re wavering.

    In this case believing Alex and not relying on the crutch of CR support would seem the correct high road to take.

    • 0 avatar
      ajla

      “why the transmission acts as it does and comment appropriately.”

      I still don’t understand this stance.

      If a person personally doesn’t like an attribute of a vehicle (whether it be throttle response, transmission behavior, visibility, ride quality, whatever), how would understanding the mechanics of it or knowing “it is supposed to be like that” make things better or change your opinion?

      If someone prefers the transmission in the CR-V to the one in the Cherokee is that a major sin? I’m sure there are folks our there that love the Powershift and the ZF-9.

      Personally, I find Alex’s “you don’t like it because you don’t understand it” attitude when it comes to new transmissions to be slightly condescending.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        Because, if you don’t understand why the trans functions as it does you might think it’s malfunctioning which would cause unneeded stress, if you understand what it’s doing you might relax and enjoy the ride along with the gas savings. I appreciate it when someone explains to me what a “funny noise” I hear might be so that I won’t worry needlessly about it

        • 0 avatar
          ajla

          It might put your mind at ease about a mechanical failure, but “it’s supposed to feel weird” generally would not endear me to anything.

          I’ll say something that will be unpopular on TTAC, but if a vehicle drives in such a way that the common shopper legitimately thinks it is BROKEN I think the problem is engineering arrogance not consumer ignorance.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Would the harsher ride of a sports car concern you if you knew it was caused by a tighter suspension for better handling which is one of the things that kind of makes it a sports car or would you find the harsh ride such a focus point that you wouldn’t enjoy the car?

          • 0 avatar
            ajla

            If I were in the market for a sports car I would buy the one with the ride/handling balance that I most personally enjoyed.

            If every sports car I test drove had what I felt to be an unacceptable ride then I would re-evaluate if that type of car is really for me.

            However, I don’t think that an “odd” feeling transmission is an inherent trait of the Cherokee’s class in the first place.

            FWIW, I have never driven the Cherokee. For all I know I might love it.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            “FWIW, I have never driven the Cherokee. For all I know I might love it”

            Me either, but I want to soon, because as with all cars, I either love ‘em or hate ‘em and I usually know within the first 10 mins of driving them.

        • 0 avatar
          HerrKaLeun

          Even if we understand why the 9-speed acts that way and may have good reasons… what we don”t understand is why they use a 9-speed jsut fr bragging rights. that was a choice by chrysler, not technical necessity (in the US with speed limits at least).

          We all here likley love technology, but if it acts funny = fail. Most if not all people would have been fine with 8, 7, or 6 speed at probably same mileage and better longevity (i know, jury is still out), at least track record.

          If people should accept that the car acts funny, we all would have very loud cars because it is explosions that drive the piston. So we should not improve the car and deaden the sound since we just tell the costumer: “this is what it is because explosions drive the car. Here some earplugs”. no, engineers went out and made cars less loud.

          There probably is a technical reason why my computer crashes, sure. But I don’t care and expect it to not crash. So i will buy one that doesn’t . Same wiht cars, people will buy a car that doesn’t act like the tranny flies out.

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            There’s “funny” and there’s unacceptable. Without driving the Jeep I’m not sure where the 9 speed falls. For me, turbo lag is unacceptable, thus I would never again own one, to others it’s not a problem

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        This is no different than the common reactions to CVTs around here. They feel “different”. A DSG feels “different”. An automated conventional manual feels “different”. Different does not equal bad, it is just different. If you drove the vehicle every day, you would get used to it and after a while it would seem perfectly normal. Different is OK to me when there are advantages to being different.

        Though personally, I think all automatic transmission suck donkey balls whether they have 2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 or an infinite number of gears, with rare exceptions.

        • 0 avatar
          HerrKaLeun

          But all your CVT and DSG examples are not only transmissions that acted funny, but that actually had a lot of failures. At least for early adopters in the first few years.

          now they got better reliability-wise, but also act less funny. so the “acting funny”actually seems to tell soemthing.

          “If it smells like BS, if it looks like BS, it sure is”… also applies to transmissions.

          Maybe some day I test drive one to feel for myself . Last time I test drove a Chrysler it had a CVT and ran at >4000 rpm most of the time while having absolutely no power. So I hope they improved somewhat. they must have, there was no way to get worse.

      • 0 avatar
        rdchappell

        I found the Powershift and the DSG to be perfectly fine. Slightly quirky at really low speeds but never a big deal in daily driving. Then again my car has a 4 speed automatic with 80′s technology, so that’s my reference point.

  • avatar
    rdchappell

    So what’s the over/under on the amount of buyers who will actually take it offroading? +/- 1%? The funny thing is that Subaru owners will take their vehicle off of the pavement more than people will with this thing. I’ll bet it’s awesome at hopping curbs in the mall parking lot, though.

  • avatar

    I checked one of these out at the Portland Auto Show last week and the thing that stuck out to me the most was the transmission selector knob. It seriously looks like it came off the end of a Big Bertha driver.

  • avatar
    NMGOM

    Derek – - – -

    I would like to offer some respectful criticism of that initial review last year, separate from the reality of the sloppy pre-production vehicle you had tested. By your own statement, you offered a “slightly colorful review of the car”.

    Here are some “colorful” metaphors and similes that you used:

    “The gauge needles, which are supposed to be red, look like they’ve been left in the California sun for a decade.”

    “… some of the stitching on the steering wheel was so wonky that it didn’t even need close examination – it was simply staring at me every time I moved the steering wheel and felt the poor stitching, which looked a bit like sutures performed by a drunken naval corpsman.”

    “The ZF ‘box is about as calm as Robin Williams at his most amphetamine-addled (self).”

    “For any of the competitive set, it would be the automotive equivalent of a Turkish prison.”

    “Against the others, it failed to shine, with discombobulated body motions on the handling loops and a surprisingly small cargo area.”

    “It makes one wonder why body-on-frame SUVs need to exist if a crossover, let alone a more rugged unibody SUV, can handle off-road driving so well.”

    I am sure there are others. While this sort of language is fun to read, it does carry a disparaging or pejorative emotional content that goes far beyond the truth content of the issue at hand. And I think that is what drew the ire of so many of your critics: in a way, you were asking for it, and hiding behind the skirts of Consumer Reports now does not offer a credible rationale (IMHO).

    If you want to provide The Truth About Cars, just state your Truth in a balanced and fair way free of “loaded language” . We’re all adults, and can still get a nuanced message very clearly.

    By the way, with regard to the last quote above, yes, modern unibody SUV-type vehicles can, on occasion under light to medium off-road duty, operate as well as some BOF vehicles. Once. Maybe twice. But routine torsional twisting imparted by heavy-to-severe off-roading, and subsequent rusting and/or flex-crack formation, would turn a unibody SUV into a pile of rubbish in a few years. A BOF will not be immune, but the damage will be less, and can be more easily repaired.

    You were right by implying that the Cherokee may not be sellable at the level of its nearest competitors. Data, from Goodcarbadcar.com, for ONLY January 2014:
    Ford Escape : 19,459
    Honda CR-V : 18,232
    Toyota RAV4 : 16,880
    Jeep Cherokee : 10,505

    Again, my comments are offered respectfully, with no “holier-than-thou” implied: I’ve certainly done such things myself. Usually regretted it later.

    ———————-

    • 0 avatar
      DC Bruce

      Formerly — and based on my experience as a daily newspaper reporter now 40 years ago — the function of an editor was to edit (curb; delete) such excesses. It’s easy to overstate the magnitude of the problem by using vivid language to describe it.

      Unfortunately, the founder of this site — based on the evidence of some of his own work — was in love with this kind of writing, so the tradition has been established.

      There’s a balance to be struck between the dryly clinical and the hysterically overwritten; and its the job of the editor to help the writer find that balance . . . with a red pencil.

      • 0 avatar
        NMGOM

        DC Bruce – - –

        Yup. I agree. And one way to find that balance is with gentle humor. It can brighten up a reading beyond dry clinical, without treading into the waters of harsh implications from loaded-language imagery.

        —————

      • 0 avatar
        Skink

        I welcome reading stuff that provides the truth, whether some perceive it as harsh or not. Overblown purple prose, though, isn’t necessary. The quotes cited are trying too hard to be clever, and fail.

    • 0 avatar
      billfrombuckhead

      ONE MORE THING, THE DOG THAT DIDN’T BARK!

      Where is the criticism on all these “truthiness about cars” websites and magazines of JapanInc’s very poor gas mileage across their truck lines? Chevy’s full size Silverado beats TRDyota’s compact Tacoma V6 by 3 mpg on the highway and 1 mpg combined. Ram Pentastar beats Tacoma V6 by 5 mpg on the highway. Incredibly, Nissan is even worse. Where is JapanInc’s answer to Ford Ecoboost or Ram’s 8 speed automatic or GM’s MDS? Where’s the outrage?

      Just because a critic doesn’t get free cars to test from manufacturers doesn’t prove they’re not biased.

    • 0 avatar
      shelvis

      Sums it up quite nicely. Well done.
      Scuttlebut is that one of the reasons that the Jeep is heavier than the competition is due to increased strengthening of the unibody up to Jeep standards. Worth also noting that the original Cherokee was a unibody as well.
      In regards to sales, one should look at capacity before passing judgement. You can’t sell a million if the factory was designed to make half that. They are making good profit on every one they move. That’s the important part.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        “Worth also noting that the original Cherokee was a unibody as well.”

        An interesting fact considering a lot of disdain for CUVs is that they’re unibodies. “Not like the good ol’ BOF Cherokee” which never existed

      • 0 avatar
        NMGOM

        shelvis – - – -

        You mentioned, “In regards to sales, one should look at capacity before passing judgement. You can’t sell a million if the factory was designed to make half that.”

        Yes, you are right, — BUT:
        1) The new Jeep Cherokee is being made at the Toledo North Assembly plant.
        (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeep_Cherokee_(KL))

        2) That plant now has scaled up to a reported capacity of 250,000 units per year.
        (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/toledo+north+assembly/)

        So, Jeep could be selling about 20K vehicles per month, not 10K. There seems not to be a capacity issue per se, but rather the goofy recall/holdback caused by the ZF transmission and other issues. Perhaps when that all gets ironed out, we’ll see a surge of Cherokee sale in Spring.

        ————————

        • 0 avatar
          shelvis

          Toledo North is supposed to make up to 4 vehicles on that platform. I can’t find anything from Chrysler reporting 250k coming out of Toledo North. A union rep saying that but not Chrysler. And those were plans from a year ago. I don’t know where they are now. If the 250K # is true, I don’t know if they are anywhere near being ramped up for it or if some of that capacity is earmarked for other stuff.
          250K would put it near the top of the sales charts wouldn’t it? That’s a little unrealistic in the first year don’t you think?
          Also worth throwing into this discussion is how may they expect to sell outside the US and what that’s going to mean in the future.

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        There’s lots of folks that regularly beat the snot out of their old unibody Cherokees off road and they haven’t exhibited any significant weaknesses. If the suspension is compliant enough and has enough travel, it will absorb those shocks and twists and the parts that will eventually fail are the bushings, which is what they were designed to do. Occasionally people have had fatigue failures of the stock control arms, but they were designed to flex as well. It’s interesting to see just how much the control arms on a Cherokee or TJ wrangler (same front end) will twist when negotiating tough terrain. Even so, I’d rather fail a control arm (regardless of how inconvenient it may be) than the unibody.

    • 0 avatar
      Skink

      I think nuance is just way too precious. I’m tired of the nuance that finally becomes plain spoken truth only at the end of a model’s production run. Tell me what you really think. Now.

  • avatar
    djn

    The heck with CR and TTAC reviews. I want hear what Clarkston has to say.

  • avatar
    Flipper35

    Given that CR has once said that the Mitsubishi Eclipse, Eagle Talon and Plymouth Laser were Great, OK and a piece of crap in terms of reliability, I am not sure I would consider them an authoritative figure in any meaningful way. They are in business to sell their own hype, nothing more. I mean really, would you hire Justin Bieber as a babysitter?

    • 0 avatar
      sgeffe

      See my post above re: the fact that the Passat was the darling of CR back in the days of the MkIV Golf/Jetta, when the Passat was almost as large of a steaming pile.

  • avatar
    Quentin

    We need Billfrombuckhead & BigTruck Bingo cards.

    Bill’s keywords:
    JapanInc
    TRDyota
    Villains at the Pump
    Mopar über Alles!
    biased
    Tundra frame

    BigTruck’s keywords:
    SRT
    fast
    “helped a friend shop for a ______”
    RWD
    300
    stock

    Jag and Mercedes S Class have sadly dropped off the list the past few years.

    • 0 avatar
      billfrombuckhead

      It’s been said that there are 3 levels of conversation with the highest being talking about concepts, the next highest level is talking about events and the lowest is talking about other people. That JapanInc fanbois won’t address the dreadful gas mileage of TRDyota’s and Nissan’s obsolete trucks, the bed bouncing weak frames and rust issues of the Tundra and won’t address the surge in Big 3 truck technology and quality speaks volumes. The first to use ad hominem attacks loses the conversation.

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        Wouldn’t your onslaught of attacks against “JapanIn.” be Ad Hominem? This article isn’t about trucks, Toyota, Honda, or Nissan, yet every time you post, negatives about “JapanInc” that are completely unrelated to the Cherokee and the CUV market in general are your supporting evidence that the Cherokee is good… and that Japan is bad. Heck, a majority of your posts in this article have been attacking TTAC based on an article written by the previous editor in chief. I always find your posts amusing because I imagine you smashing the keys on your keyboard in a furious rage. Let the hate flow!

        • 0 avatar
          billfrombuckhead

          “Corporations are people too” ROFL

          BS’s dishonest article is still in TTAC’s toolbar, it’s obvious they don’t want to remove the propaganda.

          Plenty of evidence that the Ram truck is great and that the Cherokee is gaining acceptance, also plenty of evidence like epa mpg was cited by me that TRDyota trucks are gas pigs.

          • 0 avatar
            LALoser

            “Corporations are people too” I heard someone.. I think a comedian say ” I will believe corporations are people when Texas executes one”……

          • 0 avatar
            JD321

            A Corporation is a legal fiction…Can’t have a Corporation without people.

          • 0 avatar
            84Cressida

            Plenty of evidence too that anything Chrysler builds is soon destined for the junk heap.

            So yeah, enjoy your EPA ratings. They’ll do you no good while your precious truck is getting worked on by your mechanic.

      • 0 avatar
        Pch101

        Bill complaining about fanbois is just as funny as Nazi skinheads complaining about anti-Semitism. Oh, the irony…

    • 0 avatar
      gtemnykh

      Hah!

      I miss Big truck’s CAPSLOCK SUPERCHARGED HEMI 6.1 outbursts.

    • 0 avatar
      84Cressida

      It’s pretty awesome seeing him squirm and going off on Toyota, on the very same day Lexus sets a huge record and is on its own planet at the top of the reliability study, while Chrysler and their brands win no individual awards and proudly protect their territory at the bottom of the pack.

      Mopar Uber Alles!!!

      • 0 avatar
        billfrombuckhead

        Another personal attack. Want to bet Mopar gains market share in February on Toyota just like they did in January. Or want to bet on which month Jeep passes Hyundai in American sales?

  • avatar
    klossfam

    I agree with the OTHER publications on this vehicle and NOT TTAC or CR. I felt the 9-speed was very responsive and seamless…It was about the most car-like handling small CUV I’ve driven and with more refined road manners than almost everything it competes against. I’ve driven EVERY small CUV over the last two-three years. We bought the ‘driver’s choice’ – a VW Tiguan SEL – but I thought that the Cherokee I drove 2 months ago for a full afternoon of mixed driving was among the best all around vehicles I’ve driven in a long while. We’d already bought the Tig but would have had a hard time deciding if the new Cherokee was around at the time of the VW purchase.

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      I wouldn’t be surprised if the different trim levels actually ride and handle differently. A Trailhawk with it’s larger, more agressive tires SHOULD ride and handle “worse” on road than a CRV – it can do things that a CRV can only dream of.

  • avatar
    KrohmDohm

    I saw and sat in a Cherokee at a recent car show in my area. As soon as I grabbed the door handle I was turned off. The plastic was poor molded with a huge, sharp crease cutting into your hand as you pull on it. The interior didn’t do anything to brighten my outlook from there. I can’t comment on any driving dynamics but the material and build quality just isn’t there. Being so new on the market Jeep fans and those that miss their old Cherokees will be first in line to buy. For now they are selling well. Come back in the next year or two and let me know what sales are like.

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      Old Cherokee die-hards either found another clean XJ with reasonable miles or bought a Wrangler Unlimited. Considering the last Cherokee made was in was 2001, I doubt they are getting any of those folks in the showroom for this vehicle.

  • avatar
    Ubermensch

    ITT- People who haven’t read CR in decades.

    Blah blah toasters, blah blah beigmobiles uber alles, blah blah blah

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      I find that complaints about CR are almost always inversely correlated with knowledge of same.

      CR’s prose is about as dry as summertime in the Mojave, but it would be hard to find a publication that does better with the practicalities.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        I used to read it, but I began to realize that I wasn’t too lazy to do my own research and that CR was nothing more then consumer Cliff Notes, which is fine for toasters, but not cars. When CR crowns the Honda Ridgeline as the best pick-up truck for 2014, I realized who CR is speaking to. The Honda is the best pick-up for someone who has never seen, driven, needed or wanted a pick-up and that’s who they cater to

  • avatar
    chicagoland

    i just see it as having an axe to grind, since the new Cherokee “doesn’t look like the older ones” that have the trucky, tough look.

    But, regular folk, who outnumber ‘purists’ and ‘enthusiats’ are buying them and like them. Co Worker just got one and likes it a lot, cant say ‘loves it’ yet. But was glad to unload a decade old M-B M Class. I see quite a few, and regular buyers don’t care that it ‘doesnt have round lights or boxy bodyshell’.

    Can go on about how ‘enthusiasts’ are trendsetters, but most often they have prejudices that most people could not care less about.

    FCA needs to make $ to stay in business, and they can’t only make older looking Jeeps for ‘fans’ on the comment boards, who may never, ever buy a brand new car.

  • avatar
    redav

    I have to question how nuanced the original review was when this article has to call it “nuanced” multiple times.

  • avatar
    nrd515

    I drove one recently, (They are selling like crazy here, partly due to being made here) and I saw nothing to complain about. The 9 speed shifted ok, IMHO, and it drove fine, with decent power, and I saw nothing that screamed “CHEAP”. The one I drove was loaded up, so a base one might be different. Not something I would buy, but I liked it whole lot better than the Patriot.

  • avatar
    mkling

    I see a lot of hatred of the Cherokee here, not just on the review of both parties TTAC and CR, but also the posts here. I guess that is expected when you are talking about a U.S. icon vehicle now owned by a foreign country. I see a lot of hatred based on the fact that this is not a street laden comfort ride, one to sit fat lazy people with mouths full of McD’s and Ho-HO’s, or that it is not an off road monster, one to fit the rich able to waste money or don’t have any responsibilities in life other then the enjoyment of themselves.

    NOW THAT I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION!

    That is just a review of the critiques here right? No it’s not a true or fair critique of anyone who wrote anything here, because I do not know you, the same goes for any vehicle review or opinion. If you do not own it and drive it daily for months you don’t really have a clue.

    Well the truth is I own one of these Cherokee jeep’s, I have owned Chevy trucks, RAV4′s, 4runner’s, Explorer’s, Ford trucks and this exceeds the capabilities of each of them, meaning they each have certain aspects they are designed for and they do well but for what the Cherokee is designed for it does better in those areas then the other vehicles that I have owned. This Jeep is not meant to be a luxury road vehicle and it’s not meant to be an off road monster. This is a jeep, one for the people that want to drive to work, to the store, tow 6X8 trailers, go camping in remote areas (not rubber-stamp campsites), not worry about 6 inches of snow or none paved driveways when it raining.

    In the months I have had this jeep it has snowed, iced, rained and flooded never once has this jeep failed or hesitated to get me to where I wanted to go, passing those precious Subaru’s, CRV’s and other so called all terrain vehicles. The truth is that the Cherokee must be scaring the people here; or your just lashing out because you bought an inferior vehicle and are stuck with it for several more years and can’t get a Jeep. For if you owned one of these you would see that this Cherokee is a jeep that goes on both road and off road better than anything else that is supposed to be able to do that, and it just may surprise you that for comfort,handling and reliability it has performed extremely well.

    So you all keep your anti JEEP comments coming and I along with all JEEP owners will just keep smiling as we pass by knowing that while we are sitting in comfort riding on this paved road, we can at anytime leave you in the dust as we go off road.


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