By on February 25, 2014

fusion

As inventories of Ford’s Fusion continue to outpace demand — the result of a second plant brought online last year to keep up with demand for the newly redesigned midsize sedan — the automaker has been raising incentives to move more Fusions out of the lot.

Automotive News reports most dealers around the United States are offering potential Fusion owners zero-percent financing for 60 months plus $1,000 cash back, with discounts up to $3,000 available for trade-ins to those who decline the financing; lessees receive no money due at signing with no payment for the first month of the lease.

The incentives — the most generous offered since the Fusion’s new look debuted in 2012 — come as inventories of the midsize sedan climbed to 97 days as of February 1 — up from 84 days in January — while sales of midsize cars overall have declined from a peak of 200,000 since August of last year, with winter weather holding back more sales.

Though Ford is spending $2,900 in incentives on every Fusion — Toyota’s Camry and Nissan’s Altima both hold higher incentives — the automaker’s chief analyst, Erich Merkle, says the car still commands the highest transaction price in the segment, and is confident inventories will thin as winter gives way to spring:

The midsize sedan segment is the most competitive segment in the industry right now. The good thing is average transaction prices are still very healthy.

 

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99 Comments on “Ford Raises Incentives To Clear Growing Fusion Inventories...”


  • avatar
    Detroit-X

    Really? Start a second plant, to create an oversupply, to force yourself to use higher incentives. Really?

    • 0 avatar
      Aquineas

      Yeah they’re in a bit of a pickle now that Flat Rock is up and running.

    • 0 avatar
      MrGreenMan

      This is what confused me as well. I thought One Ford was supposed to allow them to build anything and match demand with flexible plants to prevent the notorious problem of the factory working from a 6-12 month old demand projection. Perhaps all demand is down for all Ford models right now.

      • 0 avatar
        Lorenzo

        I think you’re right. It had to be a sudden downturn in sales of all models built at Flat Rock, below their minimum projections. The Fusion inventory is creeping up, so they’re probably selling more Fusions than they could have without Flat Rock, just not as many as they’d hoped, with no need for other model production.

        It’s proof that Sergio was right not to add truck capacity. It’s better to make customers wait and sell at normal prices, and if sales don’t materialize later, you don’t have the problem of an under-utilized plant and excess inventory.

    • 0 avatar
      This Is Dawg

      This is exactly what happened recently with natural gas drilling, at least in north Texas. Oversupply dropped prices so low that current projects had to be cancelled. Genius.

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      This may be one of those times when market share trumps margins.

      If Ford wants to be among the top three in the class, then it needs to dethrone the Altima. That may require some volume for the sake of it.

  • avatar
    thornmark

    And the rental car crown goes to …..

    btw, considering how high the fleet sales are for the Fusion, how do we know what the actual transaction price is? Does Ford publish what it charges fleets?

    I.e., if fleet sales are included, is Ford’s claim valid? Or is it limited to retail sales?

    • 0 avatar
      NormSV650

      $3,500 off Accords?

      http://www.realcartips.com/Honda-Accord-Prices

      • 0 avatar
        TEXN3

        Norm, read the data you post. Those sale dates are for previous model year cars. It’s the same reason I got $6500 off an Accord EXL. I purchased it right when folks were ordering the 2013 redesign, the dealer was clearing out the old stock.

        This article is about the OEM setting the incentives, not the dealers.

        • 0 avatar
          Kyree S. Williams

          Dealerships of other automakers might discount $6500 on something just because it’s an unpopular color/configuration and has been sitting around for a long time—which is more likely to occur on the *daring* Fusion than anything else in the segment—but indeed, the only way you’re getting $6500 off of a new Accord is when there’s a generational change-over. And even then, it might not be that generous for a higher trim…so that’s impressive.

    • 0 avatar
      bd2

      The rental crown is between the Camry and Malibu.

      Fusion sales are up – it’s just that the whole segment has slowed down (partially due to the weather) as Ford has added more capacity at Flat Rock.

      • 0 avatar
        84Cressida

        Nope, sorry bozo.

        • 0 avatar
          bd2

          Not surprising at all that you pitifully resort to ad hominem attacks when you can’t refute any of the actual FACTS that I give, much like when I showed what a complete FRAUD you were when i cited numerous sources where Akio Toyoda had stated that he wanted to cancel the Lexus GS (despite your argument to the contrary).

          From Automotive Fleet – 2012 RENTAL Fleet registrations

          Camry – 52,768
          Fusion – 46,197

          And in 2012, the Camry was a NEW model while the Fusion was still the old one and yet, Toyota sent more Camrys to fleet than Ford the Fusion.

          I had posted this numerous times and even faced with actual facts you still are in denial and resort to personal attacks (which is typical).

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I see that the Hyundai-Kia Disinformation Express has arrived at the station. Sales must be slow at the dealership today.

            I noticed that you skipped right over the fleet share and the total retail sales. That was probably a good idea, as those would show how bogus your assertions are.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            What does this have to do with H/K and when have I ever gave misinformation, unlike 84Cressida?

            We’re talking RENTAL fleet and not overall fleet sales since govt. and corporate fleet sales is a diff. animal.

            Guess reading COMPREHENSION isn’t your strong point, aside from other things.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            I see that you forgot to post the fleet share and retail sales figures, yet again.

            It’s pretty obvious why you’d want to avoid doing that. Anyone who understands this stuff knows that share is the relevant figure.

            Ford would be quite pleased to have the Camry’s retail volume and relatively low fleet share. In contrast, the same thing cannot be said about Toyota with respect to the Fusion.

            I’ve said this before, but you really ought to disclose your relationship with H-K. The shilling is just a bit too obvious.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            Again, the discussion is of RENTAL fleet.

            Govt. and corporate fleet is a whole diff. animal and who do you think dominates govt. and corporate fleet in Japan?

            What matters is total no. of vehicles to rental fleet.

            There is a reason why the Camry lags at the bottom when it comes to ATP for the segment.

            And really, what does H/K have to do with the Fusion doing better than the Camry in numerous parameters?

            If anything, Cressida is the shill when he obfuscates the facts.

          • 0 avatar
            84Cressida

            The only person ignoring things is you, after having your ass handed to you numerous times. Akio Toyoda’s own words from the release of the GS contradict every single article you can muster up. I’ll take his words over your articles. And the fact of the matter is that the GS was not cancelled. End of story.

            Speaking of the GS, since you love to obsess over it and the Camry so much, how about the fact that it has a higher ATP, lower fleet sales, and less incentives than the Hyundai Genesis? Nevermind the fact that the Genesis, at best, competes wit the Avalon and ES. But, since you delusionally believe it’s a GS competitor and since you love to trash the Camry for fleet, incentives, and ATP, choke on the fact that GS massacres your precious Hyundai in all three metrics.

            And you continue to ignore the fact that the Camry’s retail sales easily best the Fusion’s fleet and retail sales and that the Fusion is far more reliant on fleet sales for a higher % volume of its sales than the Camry is. Are you that dense that you truly believe that the industry counts total number of cars in fleets rather than the percentages? Good lord, that Hyundai Kool-Aid is unreal.

            And you dare call me a shill, AGNES YEH????
            http://www.linkedin.com/pub/agnes-yeh/5/699/396

          • 0 avatar
            goldtownpe

            You continue to ignore the fact that the Fusion has a higher RENTAL fleet percentage than Camry. Even the Altima out sells the Fusion in retail.

            You keep talking about ATP. What’s the ATP for the Fusion? What’s the ATP for the Camry. Please provide links to these ATP numbers.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Even a frustrated H-K salesman ought to know that having retail sales of 299k units and a fleet percentage of 16% (Camry) would be preferable to having 157k units of retail and 32% fleet (Fusion).

            You do know that ATP doesn’t include fleet, I hope.

          • 0 avatar
            sunridge place

            So…I’ve learned that:

            1. 84Cressida thinks that bd2 is Agnes Yeh??? Did I miss something on here earlier? I’m confused.

            2. PCH thinks he knows transaction pricing for fleet today is well below retail (all in) without a doubt? Or, is PCH living in the past with his thoughts?

            Heck, Honda is running Sign and Drive $0 down, $0 due at signing leases for the Accord right now for $250 a month.

            And, we’re arguing off of 2012 CY registration data which is largely irrelevant to this post of pricing/sales of the current Fusion.

            Cool.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Ford knocks $1,500 off of the invoice for fleet Fusions.

            And buyers who buy in bulk are eligible for additional discounts, such as marketing payments and volume discounts. Fleet buyers also get financing packages.

            Reported ATPs are for retail sales.

          • 0 avatar
            sunridge place

            Truecar predicts that Honda is now over $2k per unit in incentive money for retail in February.

            That doesn’t include the marketing spend to communicate those offers across TV, radio, digital etc.

            http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/february-saar-to-hit-154-according-to-truecar-2014-new-vehicle-sales-expected-to-be-up-1-percent-year-over-year-247035551.html

            And, they don’t sell trucks.

            Not trying to get into a pi$$ing match here but there does come a time where fleet, if priced right, isn’t as tough as retail when production exceeds demand.

            You have no clue whether its better to move 10k units into fleet if its done right versus dealing with the marketing/incentive cost of being 10k units heavy in retail. Don’t pretend you know.

            I get to see current Polk registration data with my job but I don’t have time to sum it up nor am I allowed to disclose it…but continuing to quote public 2012 calendar year data when discussing strategies in the current market place for mid-size segment is a bit of an old argument…especially in 2014.

          • 0 avatar
            Pch101

            Nobody who understands this stuff is under the impression that bulk buyers that are using fleet programs to buy rental cars are paying the prices that consumers are paying.

            I’m sorry that I don’t pay money to get more timely data from Polk, but if I take your word for it, then I wouldn’t be allowed to disclose it even if I did have it. However, we can reasonably extrapolate from the data that we do have that fleet programs don’t usually change radically and that rental fleet buyers who use these programs are getting steep discounts. So what is that you’re whining about, exactly?

          • 0 avatar
            sunridge place

            Thread is dead…but I’m not whining about anything.

            ‘Nobody who understands this stuff is under the impression that bulk buyers that are using fleet programs to buy rental cars are paying the prices that consumers are paying’

            I understand this stuff very well….the price a consumer pays in a retail environment can have very expensive incentive/marketing costs that can equal the discounts a fleet deal if the fleet deal is solid.

            I agree with your statements in the past around the stupidity of OEM ownership of the retail auto environment. Remember, fleet deals don’t have to cover that markup. So, an invoice price to a dealership is marked up on the sticker to help the dealership pay the bills and make $$…then rebates are used to stay competitive….not to mention holdback. No floorplan financing either.

            Fleet deal is discounted no doubt but think about other costs avoided by the OEM. The fleet program has to be priced right and not excessive in volume to hurt the residual value of the product which hurts leasing.

            Its complicated…but the knee-jerk assumption that fleet is always bad is not true.

  • avatar
    Tomifobia

    Went to the auto show in Boston last month and finally had a chance to sit in one of these. Perfect timing, as I’ve been midsize sedan shopping. Smacked my head on the roof getting in, felt confined in its narrow footwell, and was annoyed by all the flat buttons in the center stack. Ended up crossing it off my list of potential purchases.

    • 0 avatar
      Detroit-X

      Similar story me, today. Clicked on website. Starting price $22k. Looked for AWD. AWD starting price $31k. Closed webpage. Disgusted.

    • 0 avatar
      OldandSlow

      Tomifobia – ” Smacked my head on the roof getting in, felt confined in its narrow footwell.”

      Ouch! I’ve had the same experience. Not only the windshield, but also the roof line behind the windshield are much more rake than before.

      The center consoles occupy too much interior real estate and to the point of crowding the driver’s footwell. One of the nice features of older front wheel drive cars was the lack of a center hump. Now we get a center hump on steroids.

      Put the two together and a tall driver like myself does feel confined.

      • 0 avatar
        rpol35

        I’ll make it a troika; rented one at DFW several months ago and had the same experience. That coupled with Ford’s inability to cure torque-steer under full throttle made it a very unappealing car.

        • 0 avatar
          gtemnykh

          While I haven’t driven a Fusion, it sounds like this cramped interior/huge center console issue is endemic to Ford. The Taurus has a disproportionately small amount of passenger space behind the wheel, the Focus and Fiesta follow suit in their respective classes.

          Some people like the “cockpit” feel as well as a high dash to look over, I can’t stand it.

          • 0 avatar
            Kyree S. Williams

            I thought it was just the D3/D4 platformers (Explorer, Flex, MKT, Taurus, MKS), which are already horribly inefficient in terms of interior/exterior proportions. I didn’t realize that Ford as a whole was doing this.

          • 0 avatar
            gtemnykh

            Yeah I think it’s just automakers following different paths/trends as a whole. A W-body Impala has a nice roomy front seat with a low console and minimal, non-intrusive dash. The new “fancy” Impala has a monster center console as is the trend in aspirational pseudo-coupe sedans. The previous (ending in 2009) RX350 had a super roomy front seat and dash mounted shifter, plenty of knee room. The 2010+ has a massive raised console with a shifter on it. 2004-2009 Prius vs 2010+ Prius is exactly the same way.

            Dash height is another topic. A lot of GMs and Fords have these big bulky dashboards that you peer over. That was one of the things I disliked about the Chevy Cruze Eco I drove. Black interior+ high dash led to a claustrophobic feeling. Coming from a string of old Hondas, I felt right at home in my 2012 Civic with much more glass and lighter interior. Dash is much lower, console is at or below seat height, not higher.

            It’s a matter of taste, really. Some people like to be cocooned, makes them feel safer.

          • 0 avatar
            tuffjuff

            I’d say the same about the Edge. I just don’t understand why the center stack is so damn wide.

          • 0 avatar
            Drzhivago138

            It’s all designed to force you into the larger, more expensive crossover. At least, that’s how it seems to me.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            The Fusion is more open than the D-platform vehicles. I don’t have an issue with the Flex/MKT, but the Taurus/MKS seem cramped even though they have good legroom. The Explorer is in between.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’m starting to think despite its looks, MKT is the value buy in a used family hauler.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            28-

            It is a value because of its looks. In comparable trims, its cheaper used than the Flex or Explorer. There are little touches that make it nicer too.

            I take mine to a Ford dealer as well. The only downside is there are no pastries or Perrier at the Ford dealership. Or a Keurig machine. Just swill coffee and Windstar owners with rust for a subframe.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Perrier at a Lincoln dealership’s waiting room? Now I’ve heard it all…

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I’d rather have a beer.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I’ll be shopping *that* dealership.

    • 0 avatar
      Dan

      Besides being unpleasant to sit in or see out of, the stubby fast back profile doesn’t leave room for the trunk lid to swing up far enough to clear your head so anyone over five feet tall can’t comfortably unload the thing either.

      I get that punitively cramped at 6’3 is a safe and sporty cocoon at 5’10 and they can’t please everybody. But who were they building a trunk that doesn’t open for? That’s right up there with GM not realizing the Malibu should have a back seat.

  • avatar
    thornmark

    I read this man’s blog:
    http://www.joesherlock.com/blog.html

    Look what he rented (and liked). But his son just bought an Accord.

    While the Fusion seems like a nice date (rental), more prudent to marry (buy) an Accord.

  • avatar
    Conslaw

    I had a bit of cognitive dissonance last year when I bought my C-Max Hybrid right before the Fusion Hybrid came out. (I knew the Fusion was coming.) I knew the cars would have the same powertrain and that the Fusion would be better looking, but the Fusion would cost more. After trying out the Fusion, I think I made the right decision because I like the C-Max’s interior packaging better. For a large midsized car, the Fusion seems to have some “pinch points” due to its styling. I also like the fact that the C-Max is built in the United States whereas the Fusion Hybrid is built in Mexico.

  • avatar
    johnhowington

    2014 Ford Fusion S INTERNET PRICE $17,880

    How low can you go?

    alot more me’thinks.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      Several of the Ford dealers in my immediate area have a lot of lot-space devoted to 2013 Fusions, with only a few 2014 Fusions in the showroom and on the lot, for those who do not care to buy last year’s version.

      Ditto with the 2013 F150 trucks.

      And then there are the TV ads from the dealers in the big cities that only add to the 2013 con-fusion.

      Pricing is good, but not as good as let’s say a full-pop 2014 Camry LE for $21,335. And that’s before a buyer asks for the internet price near the end of the month.

    • 0 avatar
      Loki

      Ehhh I have a hard time swallowing that price. I can’t even get below $20k with A-Plan discount and incentives.

  • avatar
    KixStart

    “Though Ford is spending $2,900 in incentives on every Fusion — Toyota’s Camry and Nissan’s Altima both hold higher incentives”

    What’s the source for this? I checked Edmunds just last week (when we were discussing the Accord’s future as a Fleet Queen) and Ford’s incentives were slightly higher than Camry.

    • 0 avatar
      thornmark

      Yikes. If Accord enters Fusion’s space, that looks even worse for Ford.

      I wonder what happens to Ford’s financials, fighting a two front war.

      It can’t win midsize and it looks like GM and Ram are going to devastate its only source of real profits, pickups.

      • 0 avatar
        Kyree S. Williams

        Even as a GM fan, I think you’re very wrong about the pickup truck part. Even at the end of the current generation, the F-150 manages to compete very well with the Silverado and Sierra. It seems like GM didn’t really put any thought into what its competitors would be doing. The RAM, on the other hand, is a formidable opponent, but again, Ford has an all-new truck hitting lots later this year.

        But in my experience, there really isn’t a whole lot of switching brands among truck buyers. Whether it’s the best or the worst vehicle in the segment, a buyer of Brand A is likely to buy that brand’s truck. There’s a whole lot of brand-loyalty that truck manufacturers are ultimately safeguarded by.

      • 0 avatar

        @thornmark
        Troll much? Unlike Ford, Honda does not sell 750,000 high profit pickup trucks a year. The Accord is their high volume, bread and butter sedan so it gets the most marketing and development dollars. Ford doesn’t need to sell as many Fusions or fight to keep margins high on their sedans. As much as I hate Honda, I would definitely pick an Accord over a cartoonish Fusion. Fortunately for Ford, I am in the minority. The Fusion seems to be very appealing to a lot of buyers and has a lot conquest sales from Honda/Toyota. Mid Size buyers are fiercely brand loyal (not as much as truck buyer) so it will take time for Ford to put a meaningful dent in the Accord sales. Lets not forget that Fusion sales growth is outpacing the midsize segment and has forced Honda to add incentives like never before and Honda can’t afford incentives on their best seller since they do not sell 750,000 pickup trucks a year. The Fusion has to fight with F-150 for ad dollars. Ford can definitely afford to ‘buy’ more sales to get more people into their cars. Regarding financials: Ford is way more profitable than Honda (look it up I don’t have to post links) despite Honda financials include 15 million motorcycles, millions of generators, lawn movers, boat motors, and a few jets a year.

        • 0 avatar
          thornmark

          I merely suggest that GM and Ram are going to reduce Ford’s pickup profits as they move their product.

          And that’s how capitalism should work.

          I guess we’ll find out.

          As for the Accord, you are not in a minority. The Accord outsells the Fusion about 2-1 retail and has been picked over the Fusion in most professional reviews.

          • 0 avatar
            Lorenzo

            Thanks for giving alluster a civil reply. It’s actually possible to differ with a comment without disparaging the commenter. We need more examples of that here, or the editors will have to spell out more forcefully what civility in the comments means.

          • 0 avatar

            I beleive its not fair to compare the Fusion and Accord. Fleet sales for the Fusion are around 25% while the Accord is 100% retail. The Accord is a mid-size/full-size sedan and a sport coupe. Add the Taurus and Mustang numbers to the Fusion and Ford easily outsells Honda even after excluding fleet sales. Like I said earlier, Ford does not need to protect margins on the Fusion. It will not kill them to shove 25% to feets or increase incentives to steal sales away from the Camcord. Honda cannot afford to let margins go down on the Accord, their number 1 profit maker.

            Ignoring the Taurus and Mustang selling 150,000 units combined, the Fusion has dramatically closed the gap with the Accord.

            2007 Sales
            Accord – 392,000
            Fusion – 149,000
            Difference – 243,000

            2013 sales
            Accord – 366,000
            Fusion – 295,000
            Difference – 71,000
            Fusion + Taurus – 370,000
            Fusion + Taurus + mustang – 445,000

            Granted 25% of Fusion sales are fleet I doubt fleet percentages are any higher than in 2007.

        • 0 avatar
          thornmark

          CR just come out w/ its auto rankings.

          Accord is easy winner midsize class. Ford is tied for bottom brand.
          http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/04/top-picks-2014/index.htm

          Kicker is Audi enters top three brands behind Lexus and Acura. Buick, not so hot.

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        The Fusion has a higher ATP than the Accord.

      • 0 avatar
        84Cressida

        I can only get 0% financing for 60 months and $500 cash back on 2014 Camry. Apparently, Ford math says that $500 is more than $2900.

      • 0 avatar
        bd2

        Honda has also increased incentives on the Accord as supply has risen.

  • avatar
    tankinbeans

    Were I not in the middle of my lease on the Focus, and if this thing were available with a manual (not sure, haven’t researched much), I’d jump on this. My roommate has one and I really like it.

    Then again, I don’t really do full throttle anything and feel there is more than enough room for my average, 5’9″ 200lb (yes, I’m a bit husky but working on it) self.

  • avatar
    Z71_Silvy

    Who would have thought this “game changer”would need all of these incentives in just one short year?

    Maybe people see this garbage appliance for what it is……mediocre and overpriced.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      For people who don’t know better this is the best “game changer” Ford has ever put out in this segment.

      But for those who take the time to look and compare, the value received for the Camry, Accord and Altima is far greater than Fusion can muster.

      The unsold Fusions can always be sold off to the US government, state agencies, rental-car companies and the like.

      Enterprise is featuring a red Fusion in a sea of beige cars in their “I Like Your Style” rental car commercials heavily promoted for the El Paso and Albuquerque areas.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        “But for those who take the time to look and compare, the value received for the Camry, Accord and Altima is far greater than Fusion can muster.”

        I strongly disagree, but writing all the reasons why I disagree won’t change your mind anyway.

        • 0 avatar
          highdesertcat

          It doesn’t have to change my mind. I’m not selling anything and I’m not buying anything in this class.

          Occasionally, I take elderly people to go shopping for their new car, without prejudice or favoritism, being there mainly for moral support and being a sounding board.

          I do not see a Fusion to be up to the same level as a similarly equipped Camry, Accord or Altima.

          My dislike for the Altima and the Accord stems from their corporate decision to switch to CVTs, leaving only the Fusion and Camry as viable choices.

          Invariably, people will choose the better value of the Camry over that of the Fusion, and annual sales data supports that.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            I think the Accord, Mazda6, and Fusion are the best midsized cars by a wide margin (I’ve driven the top 7 sellers). Taste is subjective when it comes to those three. I personally don’t like how the Mazda6 looks in person. I also don’t think it drives any better than the other two.

            I do like the Accord quite a bit. As we are purchasing a midsized vehicle that must have Nav, it will be the Fusion over the Accord. I can lease a Fusion for around $230/month with Nav and 12000 miles/year. The Accord was over $100 more a month.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Yes, taste is subjective and often the stage of life a person is in when purchasing that new and often last car can affect what they are looking for in a vehicle.

            In my age group, those 67 and older, dependability, reliability and durability play an enormous part in reaching the decision that concludes in buying a new vehicle.

            Ultimately, the decision to buy is made on what works best for each of us. Sometimes, for older people, this means leasing, or buying and trading a new car every few years before the factory warranty runs out.

            When it comes to ride quality, the Camry is probably the most smooth and sedate of them all, IMO, with the Accord the best and most responsive, and the Mazda6 the one with the greatest road feel or feedback through the steering wheel and seats.

            The Altima is also a contender and often can be had for under $20K, out the door, depending on where you live.

            But when you figure in resale value, retained value or trade-in value, the one that pops up time and again as the one to have, is any iteration of the Camry.

            I’m not pushing Camry. I don’t own Camry. I wouldn’t buy a Camry myself because I buy different vehicles that are not sedans, but millions of people have and thousands continue to buy Camry every month.

            As good as today’s Fusion is touted to be, it’s not a player in the segment.

            And that’s why I thought that expanding Fusion production may have been a bit premature. What were they thinking?

            IMO, it is better to let demand drive up the price of a commodity rather than saturating the supply for anticipated sales that may or may not materialize.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            highdesertcat can’t be more wrong about the ride of the Camry.

            In a pursuit to make the Camry more “sporty”, Toyota stiffened the ride of the Camry where it has gotten complaints pretty much across the board in auto reviews (same goes for the ES and Avalon).

            Aside from the V6, there really isn’t much to like about the Camry compared to the competition aside from the bargains one can get on it.

          • 0 avatar
            Dave M.

            HDC, why do you not like CVTs?

            It took me a day or two to get used to mine…to be honest, maybe I don’t pay enough attention to those things.

            If I want to feel discernible “shifts”, I can use the placebo paddle shifters.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            bd2, I should have said that I was referring to the 4-cyl LE, which has been the version that most people seem to buy, including my old friends who asked me to come along on their new-car shopping trips.

            When I rode along in a Camry on a test drive I found the ride from the back seat uneventful and smooth.

            One trick to smooth out a harsh ride I remember from the days my brothers had their dealerships, was to lower tire pressure to 28psi on the front and 26psi on the rear. Does wonders for the ride.

          • 0 avatar
            highdesertcat

            Dave M., the reason I don’t like CVTs are that it takes a lot more gas pedal to get them going.

            In the Altima rentals I had, I had to floor the gas pedal to get the Altima up to merging speed and white-knuckled it until I merged with traffic. This is California and Texas traffic I am referring to.

            CVTs make a lot of noise but give very little action. A lot of droning but slow to get up to speed.

            And don’t get me started on my friend’s Murano. That poor lady managed to drop two CVTs during the time she owned the car. She stepped away from CVTs at the earliest opportunity and back to a six-speed step-tranny.

        • 0 avatar
          Kyree S. Williams

          The Fusion is very stylish, but some of the nicer parts, are—in my opinion—equalized by the not-so-nice parts, like the entire rear-fascia. For me, the biggest value in any of these cars is reliability, and the Fusion seems like it would be the least-reliable car in the segment…especially with the 1.5 and 1.6-liter EcoBoost engines. But time will tell; I could be wrong.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            Even its the least reliable among the big 4, we have to look at what the means and what is the cost. My Focus ST was “less reliable” than my GTI or Civic SI. However, it cost the least amount to purchase, and total ownership cost was less.

            The only Fusion experience I really have is the last generation with the 2.5L and 6 speed auto. I’ll recommend that for days on end as a used vehicle.

        • 0 avatar
          thornmark

          Then you won’t like CR’s news today.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            It really isn’t news. CR doesn’t like MFT. I’m shocked. I haven’t had an issue with MFT since early 2012. My wife is dissapointed that her current daily driver doesn’t have MFT.

    • 0 avatar
      Loki

      Do you get paid as a professional anti-Ford troll? I see you post very often, and every post has been some unsubstantiated shot at Ford or Lincoln.

    • 0 avatar
      Dave M.

      At least they’re not radically rebooting the car after a year on the market. Oh wait that was the Malibu.

      • 0 avatar
        sunridge place

        Or the Civic?

        Or the 2014.5 Camry?

        Or the newerer 2015 Camry coming later this year?

        • 0 avatar
          CJinSD

          Mind you the 2012 Civic still sold in record numbers and the various Camry model years still topped the charts. Wonder why? That’s because Honda and Toyota have a history of building the best cars instead of merely claiming that they’ve figured it out all of a sudden following a hundred years of failure.

          • 0 avatar
            sunridge place

            I agree….although Honda definitely had to resort to more cash on the hood in the first MY of the new Civic than they were used to and took action immediately.

            It is odd that Toyota is marketing a 2014.5 Camry that has very few changes from the 2014 Camry ahead of an acknowledged refresh for 2015MY. That was my point.

            I assume its to separate the models for residual values but that’s just a guess.

            Whether you like it or not, Fusion has made gains in retail share in the segment and it wasn’t done with only cash on the hood. Honda hasn’t had to resort to the level of incentives that Toyota is using (and has acknowledged) with the Camry but even they are sitting on a 110 day supply** of Accords (more than Fusion) as of Feb 1.

            ** Disclaimer…Feb 1st days supply and Dec 1st days supply reports frequently result in ‘the sky is falling’ commentary from those writing about the auto industry who don’t really understand it…but that’s another discussion.

          • 0 avatar
            bd2

            The 2012 Civic sold in record nos. b/c in a long time, Honda put large incentives on the Civic in or to push sales (and during this time, more Civics made it to rental fleet than normal).

  • avatar
    Mandalorian

    This has to be the best looking car with the worst powertrains.

    If Ford really wanted to sell these things they should drop the long paid for 3.7L V6 in, add AWD, Leather, no stupid tech gizmos and sell it for $25k.

  • avatar
    84Cressida

    Camry offers:

    0% for 60 months, $500 bonus cash
    or
    1.9% for 72 months, $500 bonus cash.

    lease:

    189/month for 24 months, $2699 due at signing

    Fusion offers
    0% financing for either 36, 48, or 6 months
    1.9% for 72 months
    All financing offers include $1500 bonus cash, plus $500 Ford credit bonus PLUS ANOTHER $1000 competitive lease bonus.

    lease:

    $199/month for 24 months, $2539 due at signing.

    Remind me again how the Camry has more incentives?????

    • 0 avatar
      sunridge place

      Camry lease has $2600 in Cap Cost Reduction in there vs $2000 in the Fusion. Camry lease you quoted is based on 12k miles per year….Fusion is based on 10k miles per year….so its not apples to apples.

      Depending on your residency….Camry is going as high as 0% for 72 months plus $500 bonus cash.

      http://www.gulfstates.buyatoyota.com/Advanced/Pages/OfferSearch.aspx

      Mid-size segment is cut throat on rebates. Part of it is to move inventory but the other part is just to stay competitive with everyone else. I know it goes against your Toyota worshiping to acknowledge it…but Camry is certainly up there with everyone else and above others they used to be beneath when it comes to cash on the hood.

      • 0 avatar
        VCplayer

        Yeah, this really seems like Ford bringing their prices more in line with competitors.

        Hey TTAC, how about an article about current industry practice regarding rebates? Segments like midsize surely have rebates “built in” to the cost of the vehicle, some insight in to how that works would be interesting. Discussing how to compare them to each other would be nice too.

  • avatar
    CapVandal

    Off topic, of course, but FYI. Natural Gas is up to roughly $5 /1000 cubic feet this year. The winter is rapidly drawing down supplies. Some of the mothballed projects will be restarted @ that price.

  • avatar
    Dave M.

    “While the Fusion seems like a nice date (rental), better to marry (buy) an Accord.”

    My thoughts exactly. I really love the new Accord….not over styled, quite demure even…yet get sight lines, useful interior, great resale. And awesome 4 cylinder….

    • 0 avatar
      Shawnski

      TTAC readers,;Jap cars superlative, domestics crap, German cars undependable, the occasional ax grinder and what do you have, a typical banal thread. Might as well read CR, sorry I can’t get ethusiastic about appliances. Honda Accord lust…a sad day. Note to domestics and Euro, quite being interesting and simply follow Japan I.e don’t innovate because it’s just to risky.


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