By on January 21, 2014

Chevy Cruze Wagon

Should General Motors new product boss Mark Reuss have his way, there may come a day when a new affordable wagon could be driven off the lot onto the highways and driveways of America.

Reuss was asked at the 2014 Detroit Auto Show what type of vehicle that was missing from GM’s current lineup should be given life. In response, he noted that no automaker in the United States currently offers an affordable wagon for the masses, one described as “mainstream, fun, good-looking, hot-looking, [and] fun-to-drive.” Reuss acknowledged that there were some wagons already for sale, such as the soon-to-be discontinued Cadillac CTS Sport Wagon and offerings from BMW and Mercedes-Benz, though all of them were too expensive for the space he wishes to fill.

Currently, crossovers hold dominion over the space once occupied by SUVs, minivans and wagons. To bring crossover owners into the wagon train, Reuss said his dream wagon would have to be compelling and be “really fun to drive” for it to be a hit with that market. He would also need to convince his new boss, CEO Mary Barra, to sign-off on a made-for-America wagon, which could be underpinned by the architecture found in the Cadillac ATS and next-gen Chevrolet Camaro.

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115 Comments on “Reuss Wants America to Have a Wagon...”


  • avatar

    A Cruze wagon is one car I’d want with a diesel. If I had to load the car with heavy stuff, I’d want the torque to pull it.

    An EV Cruze Wagon might be nice too.

    Some people say a “6.4-L” is absurd, but when you try taking 4 friends with you to a party, you find out immediately how helpful all that torque actually is.

  • avatar
    seth1065

    Well I am all for more wagons , I am one of the few who owns one has GM forgotten about the VW Jetta wagon and it comes as a gasser or oil burner, seems to meets the needs of what a wagon should be. I no longer count the Susie outback as a wagon

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    I’ll believe it when I see it at my local Chevy dealer.

  • avatar
    Omnifan

    Love the concept, but PLEASE make it unlike the CTS wagon and its useless chop-top styling. Smaller C pillar for better visibility and a square rear end for more capacity.

    • 0 avatar
      mikedt

      yes. The roof should remain parallel to the ground until the rear hatch and then straight down – like a volvo 240d.

      • 0 avatar
        Kenmore

        Completely agree but that won’t happen and that’s why CUVs will trounce these if they ever appear.

        • 0 avatar
          RobertRyan

          I think his time in Australia has made him rethink wagons would be a good thing. We have wagons and SUV’s

        • 0 avatar
          sfvarholy

          I don’t think so. Most CUV’s and Crossovers have sh** for carrying capacity. There’s simply no usable space behind the rear seats.

          Nissan Pathfinder. Fairly large CUV/SUV. Almost no storage space behind the rear seats. Plants? Plywood? IKEA bookcases? Two large dogs? Forget it.

          That’s why I have an E46 wagon. Reasonable cargo space. Better fuel economy. More fun to drive than a Utility.

          Really amazing cargo space, as in almost lay down in it fully stretched out? Volvo 850 Turbo Wagon. Really. And it is SMALLER overall than most CUV/SUV/Crossovers.

          I am sure that there are other Americans like myself that don’t want to step up to a freaking Suburban just to carry the stuff that we need or want to carry.

          • 0 avatar
            mnm4ever

            I am not sure which CUVs you are talking about. A Pathfinder isn’t a CUV, it was an SUV and has now morphed into a large crossover, and they have 3 rows of seats. You do realize both those rows fold down, don’t you?? Now the old one was a bit on the small side but I bet it had at least the same cargo room as your E46, and I bet the new one dwarfs it with all seats folded. My old CRV has a massive amount of space in the back, I took a week long road trip with my wife and 2 teen daughters and still had room in the back for the stuff they bought on the trip. Try that in an E46 without using the roof rack. My Explorer and Discovery both had huge cargo areas, more than enough to carry the dogs. Plenty of Home Depot and IKEA runs in all my vehicles and I have stuffed them all full without issue.

            I realize you love your BMW wagon and I don’t blame you, its a wonderful car that is fun to drive and very practical as well. But if there were many Americans that are like yourself then they would have bought wagons. The market has spoken time and again.

    • 0 avatar
      RobertRyan

      It is not a Concept already sold here in Australia.
      This is the Holden Sportswagon.
      https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQHDDh3Ki0d8FoOlbsFTOXcI_8MvVI7UllIQBXixiQ4SnmDRBOO

      Holden Cruze Wagon
      http://goautomedia.cdn.on.net/gallery/holden/cruze/2012_11_28_holden_cruze_wagon_16.jpg

  • avatar

    This may be the best news I’ve heard all day.

  • avatar
    sportyaccordy

    Reuss may want America to have a wagon, but America does not want America to have wagons, as 20 yrs of continually declining wagon sales (starting long before the CUV craze) can attest to. Also, lol @ a Daewoo Lacetti being an “American wagon”. How much money is GM going to waste to find out Reuss is alone in his desires? I’m hoping not much. With Caddy’s misguided revival not hitting its sales goals GM can’t afford any more duds.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      If enough people wanted a BDWSS (brown, diesel,wagon,standard-shift) don’t you think someone would build/import one? The minute some one offers one everyone will start lusting after minivans

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        Sure; the question is, how many people want and are actually in the market for such a car? The couple dozen of folks around the country who buy new stickshift Jetta TDI wagons. Hardly a hot segment lol.

    • 0 avatar
      DeeDub

      I think wagons could find a market again. The self-loathing of the Soccer Moms that originally killed them has long since shifted its aim to the minivans that replaced the wagons. Now that CUVs have replaced the minivans, and not enough housewives drive wagons for them to carry the housewife stigma, I see a chance for a return.

      The next turn of the wheel will be when CUVs become hated for being mommy wagons by all the mommies needing wagons. What they’ll flock to instead I can only guess.

    • 0 avatar
      highdesertcat

      I’m with sportyaccordy on this one. America had wagons for decades. America discontinued wagons because they didn’t sell after the minivans came about.

      I owned several REAL station wagons, among them a 1972 Olds Custom Cruiser bought new, a 1960 Ford wagon bought used, a 1975 Mercury Colony Park wagon bought used, and a 1979 Olds Diesel wagon bought used.

      They were great in their day. But that’s so last century!

      Now, a niche market…..? That’s a totally different ballgame. Best bet in the niche wagon market? Toyota Venza AWD! No two ways about it. A great number of them make it to the snow play and ski areas.

  • avatar
    phxmotor

    So Seth 1065 says a Subaru wagon isn’t a wagon. Maybe he’s right. But wait a second. I’ve got two sitting right out in front. Let me check… Ok … Rear tailgate ? Check… Fo it doors. ? Check … Sitting in the rear seat can I reach around and grab something in the way back. ? … Check.
    Oh yeah can I fold down the rear seats and slip a refrigerator in. ? Yeah sue enuff did that last week…I guess Sean knows his stuff… …Hmmm. Sure looks like a duck… Sure walks like a duck. But Sean1065 says it isn’t a wagon. I must be missing something. My subi wagons sure always seemed like wagons. Dang… I wish my cars were wagons. Now I find put they aren’t. Dang! WTF ! Now What the heck an I going to haul all my stuff in ?

    • 0 avatar
      Land Ark

      I think what he is saying is that the Outback is no longer a wagon and has turned into a Crossover, which I agree with. They are enormous, parked next to my 07 wagon they are definitely more like an SUV than their predecessor.

      • 0 avatar
        Slocum

        We have a newer Outback. A friend has a legacy sedan of the same vintage. When you’re sitting inside, you can’t tell the difference between the two unless you turn and look over your shoulder. The seating positions and cabin dimensions are identical (except, of course, for the hatch area). From the outside, an Outback might look like a crossover (which was what Subaru intended), but from the inside, it’s a midsize wagon.

        • 0 avatar
          Speedygreg7

          Land Ark is correct. The Outback starts as a Legacy wagon, but after Subaru puts the longer struts, taller profile tires and the subframe lift kit on the car to make it an Outback, it is no longer a wagon. The seating position and interior is definitely Legacy, but the driving experience is totally CUV. That is one of many reasons why I sold my 07 Outback. It simply does not drive as well as the Legacy sedan but the Legacy wagon when it was available here was indistinguishble from the sedan.

          There are many, many people on the Outbak forums looking to return their Outbacks to Legacy spec.

      • 0 avatar
        Dave M.

        They’re not THAT enormous. 1″ shorter than the previous gen, 2″ taller and wider. It IS the JDM Legacy wagon; of course pumped up here for the US.

        I hear all the time that my OB is “just a taller station wagon”….that doesn’t hurt my feelings….

    • 0 avatar
      seth1065

      I can do all that in my wife’s pilot but that is not a wagon either, the outback got jacked up and to me at least joined the cuv group. Really there are very few wagons left the market has spoken and for those of us we want a regular wagon the choices are few and far between

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        “the market has spoken and for those of us we want a regular wagon the choices are few and far between”

        – Few and far between, just like the actual buyers of new wagons, which is why no one is making them anymore.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      @ phxmotor, I know what you’re saying, I take my 4WD CUV off road all the time even though everybody who doesn’t have one says I can’t, but I do and it does just fine on trails and crosses shallow creeks. These same people tell me 4WD doesn’t help much in snow. I ask them what they drive in snow, they say it doesn’t snow where they live, that’s why they know so much about it.

      So, if they tell you your wagon is not a wagon, believe them because they don’t have or need a wagon and that’s how they know so much about your non-wagon.

      These guys are smart

  • avatar
    danio3834

    As long as the wagon ends up looking like an SUV, I’m sure this will come to fruition.

  • avatar
    TonyJZX

    i’m not sure diesel is so useful in it

    they have a pretty advanced VM Motori 2.0 diesel but its a $4,000 option

    i reckon the 1.6 turbo petrol manual wagon would be a good choice, in brown… but its not available in this config either… GM at its finest

  • avatar
    shaker

    This makes perfect sense in a “rational” world, where the lower stance, lighter weight would result in a gain in fuel efficiency and an overall improvement in GM’s CAFE numbers.
    In the “real” world, where the height advantage of an SUV/CUV is a subjective that’s routinely ignored, wagons just won’t cut it.
    When rolling down a highway, surrounded by today’s overly tall vehicles, a wagon driver would have a feeling of being at a disadvantage, and even unsafe – in other words, the “wagon demographic” would be a subset of confident, competent drivers with families.
    This means (no offense, but the numbers likely back me up), younger males, 5′ 10″ or taller who don’t feel “height challenged” in a lower vehicle, and feel that their command of the vehicle obviates the need for a tank-like conveyance.
    That said, you’re down to a small minority of the customers, and even there, you’d better offer them “BMD” (Brown, Manual, Diesel).

    • 0 avatar
      Wheatridger

      Height is important to me. Most cars are too low, and most CUV/SUVs are too high. It’s very rare that I find a vehicle that doesn’t require climbing up or dropping down into. I blame the federal light truck exemptions that have incentivized the makers to split the market into two very distinct classes. And why sell one general-purpose vehicle when you can sell two? It’s the demise of the middle class once again, just like in economics.

    • 0 avatar
      Whatnext

      When did Americans become so afraid of driving that they’re intimidated by some pudgy soccer mom driving a CRV?

    • 0 avatar
      ClutchCarGo

      I can chalk up one for that count as a 5’8″ male driving a Merc Sable wagon. Sooner or later I’ll need to replace it and I would much rather have a car-sized car than a truck-sized car. Utility comes first for me so I’ll always want something with a hatch and enough room to haul at least a modest amount of home improvement supplies. I’m not particularly threatened bu the current crop of CUVs at my ordinary level. I’m feel much more threatened by the cavalcade of drivers trying to manipulate phones regardless of what they’re driving.

      The Cruze wagon looks pretty good to me.

  • avatar
    mike978

    There had been rumours that the Buick Regal would also come in wagon form when it was launched a few years ago. There were photos of European Insignia wagons in Detroit. Nothing came of that, but the next Regal will still be essentially an Insignia. Therefore there will definitely be an Insignia wagon and hence a Regal wagon easily transferable to the US for a relatively affordable price (compared to the CTS wagon, BMW and Mercedes offerings). Sales would be low but even 500 sales a month would be a meaningful bump for a brand that sells around 16000 a month.

    • 0 avatar
      1998redwagon

      when i was looking at new cars i was really hoping that the insignia wagon was coming over here. alas it wasn’t, still wont be and i have already purchased a new vehicle.

      when i went to pick up my new vehicle as we are looking at it the salesman asked me if it was everything i wanted. i replied that, “except for a wagon, yes.” some people like me are never satisfied.

      • 0 avatar
        dash riprock

        Having spent quite a bit of time in the UK these past few years I agree about the insignia wagon. One of the few vehicles that really grabbed my attention, looked a lot more expensive(at least from the exterior) than it was. All black was a stunning looking vehicle. Still have doubts as to the amount they would sell here.

  • avatar
    7402

    Bring em on, I love me some wagons.

    I’ve been looking at the Mazda5: It looks like a minivan until you park it between a new Odyssey or Sienna and an older station wagon. I’m thinking the Mazda5 is a tallish station wagon with a front end that honors minivan styling. . . . . and you can get it with a manual transmission, FTW.

    • 0 avatar
      mike978

      The Mazda 5 is a good idea but is let down by hideous styling (the original was much better looking) and poor fuel economy which would be fixed by making a new Skyactiv based 5. However from what I have read there are no plans, currently, to make a new 5. Even though all the components are available.

      • 0 avatar
        cattronic

        They would have to do a brand new 5 from the ground up, as skyactiv entails creating all the hardware together for mileage. Ie. chassis.
        The components they could use would be the 2 4bangers, and the trannies. So some, but not all, components are available.

  • avatar
    87 Morgan

    Can’t one argue the current crop of CUV offerings are wagons? Perhaps with the added feature of AWD as an option? I have had two company issue Equinox (s). Four doors, hatchback, fold flat rear seat. Other than the afore mentioned BMD what features are these vehicles missing would define them more clearly as a wagon? Seems like the industry renamed the wagon CUV.
    I’m looking at you escape, equinox, terrain, rav, highlander, blah blah blah.

    As phxmotor pointed out the CUV does the same thing as his subie wagon.

    • 0 avatar
      YellowDuck

      Not exactly. We have a Dodge Journey and love it, because it is the closest thing to an affordable AWD wagon we can find (Subaru excepted – sorry, don’t care for them). And yes, it does what a wagon should do, except one thing – provide a truly car-like ride. Being that high off the ground just means each bump in the road translates into more jostling for the passengers, and you can’t fix that with suspension. It’s just trigonometry.

    • 0 avatar
      1998redwagon

      cuvs are too tall. i want the driving position of a sedan. i do not like being that tall. that’s why i dont drive a pickup and i dont drive a(n) c(s)uv.

      it also seems to me that in general wagons have more passenger room in the 2nd seat than c(s)uvs.

      • 0 avatar
        Quentin

        I have one of the few affordable wagons on the market: a Prius v*. It is completely outclassed by the Rav4 we test drove last week when it comes to rear seat space and cargo space. With the carseat from our Prius v in the Rav, the Rav had much more front seat space. I haven’t put said car seat in a similar sized Jetta Sportwagen, but from my MKV GTI days, the v seems to have much bigger rear seat space than my GTI did. In cars/wagons, it seems like wheelbase has a huge impact on rear seat space. By virtue of being able to build upward, CUVs seem to have a little more flexibility when it comes to configuring the interior.

        * Being a wagon is largely why we ended up with a Prius v. That said, we went somewhat overkill on having our fleet “baby ready” by having a midsize SUV (4Runner) and a compact/midsize wagon (Prius v). After living “dad-life” for 18 months now, I think we would have been better served with a Rav4 as it can handle the 5 hrs of snowfall I drove in on Friday night and Sunday but it also does decent on gas when I don’t need all weather traction. Right now, I have 2 vehicles that overlap on the practicality but are very different in all weather capability and efficiency. CUVs are just fantastic ‘jack of all trades’ vehicles. We’re very seriously considering culling the fleet down to the MINI, which can fit 1 parent and the kid, and a Rav4. Less cost, no decisions to make when we go on a trip, and it drives like a smaller vehicle which is something my wife really likes.

        • 0 avatar
          dash riprock

          We bought the Prius V during an emergency this past summer. Our impression was that it had more space than the Rav 4. Wife liked the Rav 4 as well. What she did not like was the sienna, loud and not pleasant to drive

        • 0 avatar
          30-mile fetch

          The Prius V does have a much roomier backseat than the GTI/Golf/Sportwagen. I have rear-facing carseats in my Sportwagen and if I was any taller than 6 feet it would start to encroach on my driving position.

          For the same reasons you mentioned, I can see why CUVs are so popular. My one practicality complaint is their narrow width. I can fit our big double stroller laterally across a midsize sedan’s trunk, but in a CUV it has to go diagonal, which takes up most of the usable cargo space.

      • 0 avatar
        Wheatridger

        A high seating position does magnify the effects of road imperfections. When one side of the car passes over a dip or bump, you head is moved further left or right, and the ride gets rougher. High seating also makes the car feel slower. When I bought my GTI last year, my daughter was appalled at how fast I seemed to be driving on the freeway. I was just doing 57, but it felt faster than our Tiguan doing 65.

        Rides rough and feels slow– is that what we really want in our vehicles?

  • avatar
    E39luv

    I’ve always had a soft spot for the wagon. My brother and I shared a 1979 Mercury Zephyr wagon as our first car, and it was extremely useful for all of our sports gear, loading up our friends, or filling it with our raked leaves and dropping them off in a nearby forest preserve. If your kids are about 8-10 years away from driving age (mine are), this would be the perfect hand-me-down car for them. I’d buy one, especially if it had a manual transmission. Maybe not a luggage rack, though- I’d hate to catch my kids surfing like we did:)

  • avatar
    Quentin

    I don’t see it happening. VW has all the required lego blocks to build a wagon that would look great and drive great (all the GTI or Golf R bits into the JSW). The fact that they don’t do it… and the fact that they do offer a 6MT diesel drivetrain in said JSW… says everything you need to know about the fun to drive wagon market in the US. The fact is, when people start thinking they want practical, they start thinking they want AWD. When they are thinking practical and AWD, a crossover design just makes it more practical and capable by giving it more ground clearance, improved ergo on the step-in, more headroom, and the ability to fit taller objects in the cargo area with a very slight hit to fuel economy.

    • 0 avatar
      1998redwagon

      one of your points really sticks out and i’ve been thinking about this for a bit myself. i think one of the reasons cuvs have really caught on is that with an aging population they are easier to get into and out of because of their increased seat height relative to the ground compared to sedan offerings. as we get older as a population we find it harder to get into and out of traditional sedans. that extra 2-3″ or more really helps.

      • 0 avatar
        Land Ark

        The day I buy a car because it’s easy to get in and out of will be a depressing one. There will be no denying that I’m old at that point.
        My mother is leasing a Venza and likes it for what it is, a tall FWD station wagon. And I think that’s the only reason the traditional wagon has all but died. If you have to bend over to put your kid in the back seat, you’ll find something else. If you’re older and have back problems, you don’t want to struggle getting in and out.
        If you price any wagon in CUV territory, people are going to opt for the taller option unless they are specifically avoiding it as a lifestyle choice like with the Jetta wagon. But I don’t see Jetta owners switching to a GM product easily.

        • 0 avatar
          jhefner

          That is correct; sadly, my wife loves her Durango for that very reason. Add also the fact that most CUVs/SUVs also feature a full set of A/C vents and cupholders that the traditional wagon did not have, plus the more upright seating that gives you more legroom in the middle row, and it is a compelling case to go with an SUV.

          My wife’s Durango is not a rough ride, at least compared to the 19-year-old original suspension in my Taurus wagon. But, what it does do is what I can best describe as “tap dance” on bumpy surfaces; it makes it feel like it is bouncing away from the path you are trying to go; though in tiny hops on each bump. It does not inspire confidence. But such road surfaces are rare in our part of the world.

          Like others said, I prefer the wagon’s sedan-like driving position, and it works fine for carrying several folks; but they would be more pampered in my wife’s Durango. Which is why she loves her Durango, and I love my Taurus wagon.

          Still hoping that Ford brings the Fusion wagon here; and I can afford to relegate the Taurus to weekend/project car and make a Fusion wagon my daily driver.

          • 0 avatar
            bball40dtw

            According to FoMoCo

            North American Fusion wagon = Edge

            I’d just be happy if I could get an engine above the 2.0T in the Fusion. C’mon 2.3T!

      • 0 avatar
        sportyaccordy

        Yep. I don’t notice how weird ingress/egress is out of my Z until I get into my wife’s Rabbit. With the Z you fall into the cabin. With the Rabbit you sit down on the seat. When you are actually in the car IMO the Z feels better- I feel perched up high in my wife’s car. But that perched feeling along with the better visibility is what most people like, and why crossovers are so unanimously preferred over wagons in the US. I don’t think it’s a bad thing aside from there not being more wagons available here.

  • avatar
    Sammy B

    I’m not going to hold my breath, but I would think a Cruze wagon would be about the least amount of effort possible to happen. They make the wagon everywhere else and the sedan in the US. I can’t imagine an easier way to make that one come true.

    I can appreciate why Mazda won’t do the 6 wagon (even though I HATE them for it), mainly due to their scale. If GM can’t/won’t make a business case for a Cruze wagon, then it’s over, Johnny. OVER. We’ll never get reasonably priced wagons again (save for Jetta and Subaru, should you qualify that as a wagon not a CUV)

  • avatar
    cargogh

    I took Mom out looking at cars Saturday. She’s says it’s time to trade in her ’98 LeSabre. My brother-in-law’s cousin, the mechanic, told her Christmas that any car over 15 years old was trouble-AND the headliner is sagging. She saw a Malibu and liked the way it looked. It was the last gen, but I looked at the sticker. “Mom, it’s a 2010 with 102,000; that’s a 1000 more than yours.”
    “Well, it looks like new. Show me a new one.
    “OH. Really? That’s the same car??”
    We saw the back 3/4 first. She agreed someone should be spanked.
    “Let’s go by Ford. I saw a Focus wagon once. I think a new wagon would be nice.”

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Good luck in your search, but I would ride a 98 Lesabre right into the ground and pass on all other offerings.

      • 0 avatar
        bball40dtw

        Instead of trading in the LeSabre, she should sell it to me. I have a thing for FWD late 90s, early 00s GM full sizers. I’d pay more if it was a Riviera.

      • 0 avatar
        Ian Anderson

        Agreed, run that 3800/4T65E into the ground.

        • 0 avatar
          cargogh

          That’s what I told her. I said replace the headliner, get rid of those crap tires my brother sent her and slap some Michelins on it and keep on going. She’s averaging 1000 miles a year lately. It’s my sister’s kids fault. “Granny, your car is old.” I don’t guess they can’t help it they’re spoiled with their parents trading so often. They must hemorrhage when I drive up in mine.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            So we’re taking the advice of nieces/grandchildren now?

            Here’s my thought process, you’re a kid and you don’t have any idea what your talking about, now get off my lawn because you’ve got homework/chores/drugs to do.

            Unless your mother truly has money to burn, you stick with what you have going into/being in retirement. My mother pulled something similar:

            MOM: I kinda like that Subaru Forester I think I want to get one.
            ME: But you have no money and you make $15K a year.
            MOM: Well I was thinking it could get better mileage.
            ME: But you already have a Liberty under 80K.
            MOM: Yeah but it gets 14 miles per gallon
            ME: You also have Dad’s 07 Saturn Ion (I4) with 33K and both cars are paid off (I help maintain them).
            MOM: But… but… I could trade the Liberty.
            ME: Your Liberty is maybe worth $7,000. The Forester optioned is going to run mid $20s or more and isn’t needed 70% of the year, and for those snow times you already have a paid off running 4WD vehicle.
            MOM: But…

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            Tell MOM she can have whatever she wants as long as she can pay for it. This is usually what parents tell their kids, but there seems to be a little role-reversal going on

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            That works great until the payments can’t be made and someone has to come up with cash for overpriced unneeded baubles. The reality of the situation is if your a 60yo widow in mediocre health who hasn’t worked a full time job since 1999, and who already has viable options open to her, you live within your means. Cars blow up/house burns down/lose your job tomorrow and then the situation changes and sons can act accordingly.

  • avatar
    doctor olds

    I’ll take an Alpha based Chevrolet with a 2.0LT and a 6 speed manual!

  • avatar
    lodasi

    I know this does not quite appeal to the enthusiast crowd, but there’s an elephant in the room you all have been avoiding: the Prius V is completely a wagon.

    • 0 avatar
      1998redwagon

      yes the prius v is a wagon. but load it up with people and wagon stuff and try to move it. can you tow with it? anything at all? slug. ’nuff said.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        You weren’t towing anything with an Escort or SL wagon either, nor were you moving heavy furniture. There is a market for a small wagon such as the departed Saturn SL I’m just not sure how big said market is… some kind of Catera-ish sport wagon, while awesome, may not help matters.

      • 0 avatar
        Maymar

        Toyota claims the Rav4 can tow all of 1500lbs, although somehow their passenger cars aren’t rated to tow anything. Strange, because most cars were at least good for 1000lbs a few years ago. My inner conspiracy nut is a little suspcious.

  • avatar
    mjz

    Mark Reuss. Just build the damn Cruze wagon here already, and the hatchback version too, while your at it. These are both offered almost everywhere around the globe, except here. Duh, this isn’t brain surgery.

  • avatar
    Conslaw

    A Chevrolet Cruz diesel wagon would likely be a $30,000+ automobile. It would be just a little bit cheaper than the Acura TSX Sports wagon which options out at $32 to $35k list, and last I checked only sold 4,000 units a year. With Chevrolet’s wider distribution, the diesel version might match the entire Acura TSX Sports Wagon total, and all Cruze wagons might reach 15,000 units or so. Is that enough?

  • avatar
    mnm4ever

    I don’t understand all the comments stating that CUVs and crossovers don’t drive like sedans. I have been test driving pretty much all the CUVs and smaller crossovers on the market lately for my mother in law who is in the market for one. They all drive like cars. Not one of them feels like either of my Explorers, or my Discovery, Wrangers, pickups, Tahoes, Grand Caravans, the previous-gen Pathfinder and current 4Runner, etc. Even my old 2002 CRV drives more like a truck than any of the new CUVs and it is still pretty car-like. Subarus may have gotten bigger but they still drive like cars, an Outback never fooled me into thinking I was in a truck.

    The only real difference I can see between the new CUVs/crossovers and cars is the seating height… I don’t even call it ride height because I think that is mostly an illusion, they have perhaps an inch or 2 more height than whatever car they are related to, the “look” of sitting up high is created by using bigger tires and raising the fenders. And sitting up high is benefit to most everyone who isn’t an enthusiast. People like the enhanced view which is part of why SUVs got popular in the first place. A CUV/Crossover gets them the benefits of a SUV or truck combined with the benefits of a car. And no CUV I have driven has felt too tall, soft, rough, top heavy, or tippy. They all handle just as well or better than a regular car while riding very nicely. Enough to make me consider picking one up for myself instead of keeping the 3-4 “paid for” cars my wife and I share.

    I think what the complainers really want is a sports wagon, and unfortunately those have proven time and again to be poison in the marketplace. But I say that a modern CUV or crossover IS a wagon, like it or not.

    • 0 avatar
      dal20402

      “And no CUV I have driven has felt too tall, soft, rough, top heavy, or tippy. They all handle just as well or better than a regular car while riding very nicely.”

      CUVs are indeed better handlers than the BOF SUVs they have mostly replaced, but I have to disagree they are anywhere close to regular cars.

      I own a Forester XT, one of the better-handling CUVs (a big part of why I bought it), and it still has heavy body roll and poor body motion control compared to any of the cars I’ve owned. It’s easily unsettled by mid-turn bumps and the tall tires are squishy and roll over easily. I’ve also driven Equinoxes, RAV4s, and CR-Vs and they are all even worse.

      You can’t overcome physics. The higher center of gravity and heavier weight means that you need a stiffer suspension to preserve handling ability. So your choices are either “performance” CUVs like the BMW X3/X5, which ride as if the springs were rocks, or regular CUVs which drive kind of like cars but with less stability.

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        My point is with most of these vehicles, and I am talking about the new crop, not the ones from 5-10 yrs ago either, there is not a significant difference in center of gravity or weight. They do not have tall “off road” tires anymore, just bigger rims with low profile tires. You say “compared to any of the cars you have owned”… well that is very dependent on what you have owned. My GTI and MR2 of course handle significantly better than any CUV I have tried out. But compared to regular cars… CRV compared to Civic or Accord, Rogue compared to Sentra or Altima, RAV4 compared to Corolla or Camry, Hyundai/Kia, Dodge, Chevy, etc… there is not a big difference. If anything they tend to ride better and feel more secure to typical buyers. Sure the “special” models like the Camry SE or Accord Sport have better body control but the standard model cars are not much fun to drive anyway. And most of the “grounded to the ground” consumers will never notice a difference anyway, they simply like sitting up higher and driving something “cool” that still does the family duty they require.

      • 0 avatar
        Richard Chen

        The graveyard of dead & moribund sporty wagons: Acura TSX, Audi A4, Audi A6, BMW 5-series, Cadillac CTS, Dodge Magnum, Saab 9-3, Saab 9-5, Subaru Legacy, VW Passat, Volvo V50, Volvo V70. A few of those survive, but only as CUV look-alikes.

        IIRC the Mazda6 wagon sold 200/month, 50% fleet. We’re talking BMW X6 volumes, but nowhere close to X6 profits. (And that version at least had most of its parts in common with the sedan, so it would be even harder to bring the current wagon stateside.) The wagon selections stateside were never great to begin with and will likely remain slim pickings.

        Say, what was the last traditional station wagon GM sold stateside? Saturn L series?

      • 0 avatar
        Speedygreg7

        Agreed 100%

    • 0 avatar
      Pch101

      “I think what the complainers really want is a sports wagon…”

      What they want to do is complain. It’s a variation of the grass-is-always-greener syndrome; they just want what we don’t have, forgetting that we don’t have it because we don’t really want it.

      “…and unfortunately those have proven time and again to be poison in the marketplace.”

      Well, if you are going to sell a compact wagon, then that’s probably the configuration needed to sell it, ala the Jetta.

      But it’s a niche, and not a big or particularly lucrative one at that. GMNA really ought to stay away from it.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I agree with you but GM should start looking at profitable niche markets.

      • 0 avatar
        mnm4ever

        Oh I agree with both of you, and as an enthusiast I love sport wagons. But I am not going to buy one even if it was offered. You know why? Because I am married and my wife would rather I buy a Mustang GT AND a Jeep Wrangler than be caught dead driving a dreaded station wagon even if it was a CTS-V or S4 Avant or M3 wagon or whatever. And who am I to argue with that logic anyway??

        But it is my opinion that the people who want a sporty wagon are buying the ones we have and not enough people are clamoring for other choices to justify building one. And most women hate wagons so men don’t get to buy them even when they get on the internet and beg the manufacturers to build them.

  • avatar
    KrohmDohm

    Well as someone who is between wagons for financial reasons I want another one soon! There are so few choices in the market today it’s depressing. I’m partial to the Outback(yes it’s a wagon) and the current gen XC70. The used market is getting thin as well. If you go to Carmax and select by type there are fewer wagons than any other car by a large margin. Wagons that either aren’t wagons or aren’t for me are:Scion XB, Chevy HHR(ugh), Dodge Caliber(more ugh), PT Cruiser, Nissan Cube, Mazda5(small mini-van), Pontiac Vibe/Toyota Matrix. That leaves BMW, Audi, Volvo, Subaru and VW. So Reuss, if you read TTAC.

    Please give us another long roof to choose from!

  • avatar
    BrunoT

    A good handling crossover is better than a mediocre station wagon, so they’re right, they’d need to nail the handling.

    I think there is a market, but with images of old wagons as family trucksters, they have to make it look sleek and cool and I would not even sell a base model with skinny tires and spongy springs.

  • avatar
    Jimal

    A Cruze wagon, like what is pictured, would almost be a no-brainer because the heavy lifting has been done, the vast majority of parts are interchangeable with the sedan, and you might capture a few more sales with it.

    That is the only realistic scenario I can think of.

  • avatar
    Zykotec

    I have wanted a ‘family truckster’ since I first saw ‘National Lampoons Vacation’…I’m not the average car buyer though, and I don’t even buy brand new cars.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    I see Reuss’ evil mind at work. Wood-grain on the sides and Safari View little skylights in the roof too? Then think of the GM-brand lifestyle clothing for the discerning. Polyesther and loud Big-10 colored plaid pants at your GM dealership. There will be traffic jams I tell ya!

  • avatar
    fredtal

    I saw this story a couple of days ago, but they showed a picture of the Opel version and surmised it might be a Buick. As an aside I want to check out the Acura TSX wagon, but there is one south of Houston and another in Austin.

  • avatar
    Lightspeed

    Chevy tried it with the Malibu Maxx and it was so ugly, so badly built of such poor materials that it turned off only the most dedicated to a true wagon. I owned one, loved the concept, hated the execution. And in reality, it was a reliable car with excellent mileage. If they do a wagon, it’s got to be an above-average quality endeavor.

  • avatar
    Spike_in_Brisbane

    Here in Oz, station wagons were always popular, possibly because high registration and insurance costs make it costly to own multiple vehicles and many folk tow trailers, boats and caravans. However, lately we have succumbed to the global trend toward SUV/CUVs. The historical boxing match was between Holden and Falcon wagons. They both had longer wheelbases than the sedans and huge cargo carrying capabilities. Sagging sales led Holden to design the latest Commodore wagon (Chevy SS) as a Sportwagon with the sloping rear roof and standard wheelbase. Unfortunately appearance trumped utility and Ford finally discontinued its big family wagon. The Holden will also die with GM discontinuing local manufacture so we will will soon be in the same situation as you Americans. No big wagons. Sad but true.

  • avatar
    George B

    I wish it were easier for manufacturers to import low-volume body style variants of cars already certified for the US. GM is already manufacturing the Cruze wagon in Korea for Australia and tariffs and costs are favorable to export to the US, so it would be nice if they could send a few this way to test the market.

    http://www.carsguide.com.au/news-and-reviews/car-reviews-road-tests/holden_cruze_sportwagon_cdx_review

  • avatar
    Atum

    No one has said anything about bringing back the Rondo.

    That was a hidden gem in the Kia lineup. Lots of room, good gas mileage, station wagon, lots of features, reliable, and a low price. It didn’t ever sell; however, the redesigned Sorento has sold like hotcakes, and 2015 models are already on sale at the local Kia place. Americans just like their crossovers, and for many adults, such as my parents in their late 40′s/early 50′s, vehicles with lower ride heights are difficult to access.

  • avatar
    Andy D

    Does Toyota still offer a Camry wagon?

  • avatar
    Maverick74

    I think a small, cheap, fuel efficient yet fun to drive wagon could find a market here. I live in a rural area where full size 4×4 pickups are the norm, yet I see older Ford Escort/Focus wagons and the like quite often.

  • avatar
    old fart

    Isn’t the Cruze a glorified Daewoo? Did Daewoo suddenly become a great car when I wasn’t looking ? From what I remember of the quality it was on par with a Yugo, maybe worse. My niece had one and the motor had to be replaced under warranty due to premature severe internal rusting and it took months to get the motor. Then the dealer replaced the cooling system a couple times. When the warranty ran out she sold it for scrap as the converters rotted out and the body had holes in it.

  • avatar
    Lorenzo

    I just hope they make a 2-door model so it’ll be easier for a body shop to convert into an El Camino.

  • avatar
    threeer

    If they:

    1) Made it America
    2) Maintained a somewhat sporting option (with manual trans)
    3) Kept the price in the mid $25k range

    I’d be in serious contention for a Cruze wagon. When I return from my assignment here in Saudi Arabia, I want to get back to my rescue dog hauling volunteer work. I know I am in the minority when you look at American consumer demand, but I simply don’t want a CUV/SUV for what I do. Granted, I love me some Jeep Wrangler, but there isn’t a ton of cargo space (even with the rear seat removed) and most of the dog runs I do are several hours in length, so fuel economy does enter my decision criteria. Plus, I want to buy a small Trailmaster camper which would be perfectly towed by even a Cruze wagon.
    As I said, I’m a minority consumer. There probably really isn’t much of a business case for GM to bring something like the Cruze Wagon to the the market, but I can always hope…

  • avatar
    FractureCritical

    Ok, let’s look at making an acutal case for the car instead of just badgering back and forth:

    1) the Dodge Magnum, aside from being named after a condom and being made in an era where Mopar interiors felt like they were made of recycled condoms sold about 40,000 units per year before Chrysler killed it. Admitted, that’s not Camry numbers, but it’s more units per year than Audi sells A4′s, their bread-and-butter model. Ralph Giles said the car was killed becuase an exec didn’t like it, not becuase it didn’t sell. Don’t use the magnum as a reason to not consider a wagon.

    2) Volvo dealers have been screaming for a wagon since Volvo stopped making them. Why would they do that unless there’s a demand out there?

    3) Marketing demographics – When was the last time you saw a car ad focused at a young father? I honestly can’t remember beyond the “daddy likes” angle on the Sienna, and I’m a young father. We are an ignored demographic – there is room for us. I realize VW and Caddy don’t sell a lot of wagons, but they do sell them, and I see more late 20′s-early 40′s guys driving them than anything else. I believe the automakers know this, and know that we have money and don’t see a lot on the market that works for us and isn’t an SUV or minivan, both of which are distasteful.

    4) the most popular wagon-y things out there right now are the CUV’s. Maybe it’s me, but they’re all just so cute that they make me want to throw up. Maybe it’s not me, because I see more women behind the wheels of these things than men. Not every guy wants twin tail pipes and a burble of a V8, but the idea that they drive a car that can come that way has more appeal than a Buick Encore which likely comes with curly toed shoes to make your Keebler deliveries.

    5) The current ‘hot’ is soft roaders. it’s a theme that works. Boy-rally racers in WRX’s grow up, but have nothing to grow up into. Look at the Audi allroad. good idea, crapstastic execution. Give me something a little high on good tires. real power (300 would be nice) at a $30k-$35k price point. I’m talking a dirt road barnstormer in a car ad with a canoe on the roof and baby seat in the back. GMV variant? why the hell not?

    6) How about a street variant more in line with the old Magnum? good suspension and a decent heady V6 with some sport seats and shifter paddles. Make an ad with one in white, a dad in a blue vest with the tag line that it’ll do the Kessel run in less than 12 parsecs. It’ll sell.

    7) women predominantly hate wagons as a rule. I don’t understand it, but I understand that it’s there. For single guys, this is a deal breaker as a wagon likely isn’t going to drop panties like a 328 coupe will. For a married guy, this is gold. He knows his wife can’t protest the ‘practical’ car, but also knows it irritates her a little. gold.

  • avatar
    HotPotato

    I’m sure he’s talking about the Cruze wagon, but a Buick Regal wagon based on the Opel Insignia wagon would be amazing. I saw an Insignia wagon in France and walked around it admiringly taking pictures for several minutes — it was absolutely gorgeous…no kidding, they made a dead-sexy wagon.


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