By on November 13, 2013

caroline3

Some time ago, I was on the rooftop of a five-star hotel for my post-hangover chow when I heard someone complaining that “They only have eight kinds of breakfast here!” Naturally, I had to make the acquaintance of someone so discerning. Caroline Ellis hails from the South, is impossibly tiny, and has been involved with car culture in one way or another for most of her life. She’ll be chiming in a few times a month in the future, so if you have any topics you’d like her to cover, let me know — JB

I’m in my mid-twenties, I’m blonde, and I’m female. In other words, I’m pretty much the antithesis of the audience for most automotive journalism outlets-Road and Track, for example, states that their readership is 94.6% percent male with a median age of 45. The only time a woman my age shows up in most automotive publications is if she’s on the cover wearing nothing but a bikini and a come-hither stare.

But, you 94.6% should realize my opinion about cars is pretty important. You see, a lot of men try to impress me and women just like me with what they drive. So, with this and future writings here at TTAC, I’m gonna break the Girl Code. We’ll look behind the door of the Ladies’ Room and let you in on the Truth About Cars according to the Women of Generation Y.

Here’s the first revelation: What you drive matters. Sorry. I’m sure you’re saving a ton of money for our first house payment by driving that rolling embarrassment from the decade in which I was born, but you’ll never get to spend it on me because you’ll never get me in the passenger seat. Feel free to call me shallow. Also, feel free to never call me at all.

For those of you who are actually trying, let’s look at what you think you’re saying with your car, and what you’re actually saying.

Honda Accord/Toyota Camry/Nissan Altima

You think: I’m sensible, I’m smart with my money, and I’m making a sound investment. I’d make a great family man.

We think: You probably also wear Dockers and think that Applebee’s would make a great first date.

Honda Civic/Toyota Corolla

You think: This is a really reliable car and… sorry, I really don’t have any idea what you’re thinking here.

We think: Great, you’re boring AND poor.

Ford/Chevy/Dodge Pickup

You think: I’m a manly man driving a manly truck.

We think: You’d better look like Blake Shelton, or I’m not interested. Also, you’d better buy me some really sexy boots I can wear with my skinny jeans so my girlfriends will think I’m being ironic when I ride in it. Don’t even think about trying to take me hunting, fishing, or camping, either.

Chevy Corvette

You think: I look sexy driving this thing.

We think: You’re at least ten years older than you’re telling me you are. Your ex-wife was right to tell you that you weren’t allowed to buy that thing. I’ll take some drinks from you but you’re getting a fake number at the end of the night.

Infiniti G35/37/whatever they call it now

You think: It’s just as cool as a BMW.

We think: No, it isn’t.

BMW/Audi/Mercedes with the badges removed

You think: Nobody knows I bought the cheapest one.

We think: Yes, we totally know you bought the cheapest one. Also, you better keep those badges for when you turn it back in at the end of your lease.

Ford Mustang

You think: This thing is hot.

We think: Yes, yes it is. It’s a shame the backseat is so small, but I’m willing to make it work.

Porsche Boxster

You think: I am total baller. Chicks think I’m rich.

We think: You probably just hit a midlife crisis; like my stepdad. Also, it’s amazing you still have your man card considering that you bought the Beverly Hills Trophy Wife-edition Porsche. We know it’s the cheap one, too.

Ferrari or Lamborghini of any kind (we can’t tell them apart, either)

You think: This makes my dong bigger.

We think: No, it doesn’t. And congratulations on your 144 month lease term!

Any Subaru, especially a green one

You think: This makes me look outdoorsy.

We think: You probably have some good weed. You’re allowed to be in Friend Zone.

Minivans

We don’t really even need to talk about this one, do we?

Toyota Prius

You think: I’m ecologically responsible.

We think: Nobody is impressed by your carbon footprint. I’m more impressed by how big your real footprint is, if you know what I mean.

But most importantly, you’ve got to match your car. Don’t try to be something you’re not. If you’re trying to convince me of something, you’d better have already convinced yourself. Obviously a lot of what I’ve said here is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but there’s a lot of truth in it, too. I’m here to help, so ask away-tell me what you’d like to know about a young woman’s perspective on your ride, or anything else that you’d like to know. Bottom line: I want to help you, the Best and Brightest, get… you know. Lucky. Consider me your virtual wingwoman.

So, I think it goes something like this… over to you, B&B!

caroline2

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600 Comments on “The Truth About Caroline: What Your Car Says to Me (and Every Other Woman Under 30)...”


  • avatar
    Spendthrift

    The 94.6% percent male readership of ROAD & TRACK just had its generally cynical attitude about women emphatically confirmed by your post. Was that the intent?

    • 0 avatar
      TrailerTrash

      wait…did anybody here ever care what a 30 and under girl thought?
      It would be like actually caring what Lindsy Lohan thought about politics!
      Really?
      I mean…just shut up and look the part of the fantasy.
      Don’t spoil it by speaking.

      • 0 avatar
        truffle_shuffle_steer

        I think this article is really terrible. I know this is only the third time I’ve commented but what an absolutely worthless article. I’m really disappointed with the ttac edditorial staff here.

        Seriously how brainwashed is this girl? I come to ttac because it’s usually devoid of this sort of mindless herd foollowing bs. As if we needed an article to reinforce what gets shoved down our throats.

        Wonder if this girl has ever done anything actually worthwhile or interesting?

      • 0 avatar
        The Heisenberg Cartel

        Yeah. How dare a woman be snarky and have an opinion and not be making me a sandwich and putting my dip in my mouth for me.

        Seriously, there is nothing that’s best or brightest about these dumbsh!ts. Can we bring back the Bertel Schmitt school of ban happiness for these greasy haired confirmed virgins?

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      Yeah.

      “Here’s the first revelation: What you drive matters. Sorry. I’m sure you’re saving a ton of money for our first house payment by driving that rolling embarrassment from the decade in which I was born, but you’ll never get to spend it on me because you’ll never get me in the passenger seat. Feel free to call me shallow. Also, feel free to never call me at all. ”

      Noted.

      I mean, I’m *pretty sure* most of this was intended as humor (call it 80%?) – but what someone “thinks” is funny is itself information.

      And the information delivered is that the author at very least thinks someone wants to read her *presenting herself* who’d, well, care about nothing more than what car a guy drives.

      I sincerely hope there’s as little truth as possible in that – ideally none.

      But it’s real hard for people to actually assume that – and a bad game to play, if you care about people getting any sort of accurate idea about what you think.

    • 0 avatar
      Detroit-X

      Was this article for humor, satire, or what? A vain, self-centered, self-absorbed, know-it-all chick like this has never interested me. I’ve avoided them; easily. If she finds me in some category “she doesn’t want,” by what I drive I am the luckier for it.

      • 0 avatar
        IndianaDriver

        I think it’s a mix of humor and satire and a nice change of pace for TTAC. Her spelling is terrible (at least the way it appears on the website), but let’s see if she can put together a good follow up article. As a happily married mid-40 year old man, I got a good laugh out of it. When I met my wife back in College, she didn’t care that I had a stick shift Honda – we just hit it off together. A couple of kids and many new cars later we’re still doing well. I got the best laugh about the Civic/Corolla analogy. The guys I know around my age that drive these things aren’t poor, they’re just trying to keep a little extra money to put their kids through private school/College or they are trying to max out gas mileage to feel better about their work commutes.

        • 0 avatar
          campocaceres

          Agreed on a follow-up article. The entire article seems tongue-in-cheek to me, even if it’s claimed to be only “somewhat”. It’s all a bit thick for my taste, personally, and I think this could just end up a redux of the “do you come with the car” girl. But we’ll see how it goes.

          Also, is it just me or are the apostrophe’s being replaced with a string of characters? ’

      • 0 avatar
        elhombre

        Well, the article is great click bait! She certainly has very high standards for a flat chested midget but, hey, each to their own.

    • 0 avatar
      jeffzekas

      My 22 yr old son has had LOTS of girls, driving a ’68 Ford, 3-series BMW & now a GMC truck- guess girls in Nor Cal aren’t as shallow as Caroline!

    • 0 avatar
      CelticPete

      Heh. I fit right into the R&T demographic. Not a bad magazine – though I prefer its sister C&D.

      Here is the thing – some of us already have g/fs and wives and thus we can pick whatever car we think is best for us. I like fun to drive cars – and that’s what I pick.

      I’d drive the new Corvette in a second – as I believe its fun. If old dudes want to drive it – I can’t say I’d blame em.

  • avatar
    morbo

    I’ve been told by the fairer sex that my black Chrysler 300C says I’m angry, and the black Dodge Charger I almost bought instead said that i was angry and poor.

  • avatar
    Mr Imperial

    What’s your take on a man who does all his own wrenchwork?

    • 0 avatar

      Probably will say “cheap” or “you’re not touching me with those filthy hands” as she hates fishing, hunting, etc.

      • 0 avatar
        AMC_CJ

        I found a girl that likes to hunt and fish; problem is, I really don’t.

        But I work on all my own cars, and rebuild the old ones. My ex hated that. The current one and I’m convinced my soul mate sure doesn’t mind it. Before me she use to do most of the work on her Jetta, even took the thing apart trying to replace the timing belt all by herself (she had to pay somebody to put it back together).

        See my below post on what I drove on 1st date’s. I found a keeper, but then a girl like her, puts a lot of guys our age to shame in toughness, so it was hard for her to find somebody to measure up.

        • 0 avatar
          Mr Imperial

          My wife couldn’t care less as to what we drive, as long as it’s reliable, dependable, and gets good mileage.

          Caroline is being tongue-in-cheek. Not all of us menfolk here on TTAC are the same, neither are all women.

        • 0 avatar
          Onus

          Been there. Old gf used to complain that what i drive was horrible, and why i had to fix it? Um hello do you ever want to go anywhere? I gotta pay for that somehow. I’m not pro mechanic so it can take me a couple days but, still endless complaining. Glad i ditched that one.

          New one things its awesome that i fix everything myself, and thinks what i drive is pretty cool even when i don’t. But she is a keeper in many ways.

    • 0 avatar
      Caroline Ellis

      I like a man that can do his own wrench-work. Lord knows I can’t!!! Personally, a man’s man is a MUST for me! There is something enthralling about a man that has just put in a long, hard day’s work in the garage; sweat, grease, muscles… Yum! It adds to the fantasy. ;)

      • 0 avatar
        SMIA1948

        Congratulations on your writing debut. Whatever people say about it or you, your article seems to be setting the world’s record for comments.

        I was single for 9 years in my 50s. Because I hadn’t dated, well, ever before (I married the first girl that I ever went out with), the first thing I did (this was 1997) was to buy a Mercedes SL600 and an Audi A8. I thought that I would need these to impress women. I did not. None of the women that I dated seemed to care at all about what kind of car I drove. Of course, these were single moms in their 40s and 50s.

        I eventually met a woman that had the three things that I was looking for: beauty, brains, and bad judgment when it comes to men. It’s hard to find all three of these in one package, so I married her.

        The best of luck.

  • avatar

    Nice comment baiting on the article there, but I won’t bite.

    I would like to correct your assumption that “real footprint” has any correlation at all to the size of a man’s endowment, it doesn’t. Scientists have studied this, since a lot of them are male and want to know how they measure up to everyone else without having to buy a BMW/Mercedes/Audi. It’s not shoe size, but there’s definitive proof that hand size has a direct link to how well-endowed a man is, so you’re welcome.

  • avatar
    AMC_CJ

    Funny, I’d never fit into any of that….. well I have the new Mustang now, but not when I was single.

    No, when I was single, I showed up in most of my first dates in my old Jeep CJ7. It had it’s wear, but it was far from a beater. Most girls really seemed to love it, but if they didn’t, I know they wouldn’t be worth pursuing. That or my old 79′ Chevy Malibu coupe that’s in perfect shape and fixed up, but I always usually left that in the garage.

    If I was to find myself single now, with my fleet of five vehicles, I think the one I’d choose the 78′ Chevy sedan for a 1st date. It’s in ok shape, but nothing like the 79′ coupe. Still, I want a girl to like me for who I am, not how much money I have. Maybe if she still liked me despite my old (vintage?) worn out car, I’d let her drive the new Mustang come the 2nd.

    So go ahead and judge a guy by his car. I’m sure 99% of the time it’s spot on. But for me, I’m showing up in the oldest junkiest thing I got, and if you still like me, then maybe I’ll let you come to the house, where I keep the nice stuff……. and the hot tub.

    P.S. And by “you”, I don’t mean “you” specifically, I couldn’t run far enough from a typically cliche mid-20’s like you. And I’m in my late 20’s, good looking, semi-successful with a decent house and new Mustang.

    Thank god I have a girl at home that loved my old Jeep. I don’t know how I even found her in such a world populated by girls like you’s.

    • 0 avatar
      azmtbkr81

      +1 My ’96 Bronco was the ultimate dating litmus test. If I got the wide-eyed, curled-lip “eww” face I’d drive away and never look back, if I got the smiling “cool-when are you taking me on an adventure” response I knew a second date was in order.

      On a side note I’m glad I waited until my early 30’s to find a serious girlfriend – anything more than a short term fling with 20 something women is about as much fun as replacing worn out ball joints.

  • avatar
    underachieva

    You piqued my interest by saying as a blonde female in her mid 20s, you are the antithesis of the normal automotive journalism audience. Then you follow that up by showing us that your opinion of cars and the people who drive them is the same as the stereotypical blonde female in her mid 20s. Unless TTAC needs a resident VW Jetta reviewer, I don’t see any value in what you have to provide the world of automotive journalism.

    • 0 avatar
      ClutchCarGo

      Agreed, this post is like a bag of potato chips: tasty while you’re consuming but devoid of any useful content and simultaneously full of deleterious stuff.

      I’m sure that the author is representative of some of her cohort, but I really hope that she is the exception and not the rule. While her observations are witty, they are also terribly shallow. Any woman judging potential mates by these simplistic criteria deserves the simplistic results that she gets.

      • 0 avatar

        +10

        Farago tried something like this with a similarly insubstantive character. It didn’t work. He ditched it.

        That said, I’d love to see more women on the site, writing or commenting. But any writers should be at least in their upper 30s or preternaturally wise, and they should have substance. A woman like this one–who also loved cars

        http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/13/us/dont-call-her-a-first-lady-browns-wife-is-his-top-aide.html?ref=us

        • 0 avatar
          redav

          I agree on wanting more female viewpoints on this site. However, I disagree on age and “wisdom” requirements. I just ask that it not be the stereotypical, 15-yr-old wannabe, Jalopnik drivel. I want something honest, insightful, and valuable.

          A while back, a lady wrote an article here about cars and fashion. While obviously not something I personally could use, I enjoyed that article. I feel it opened up the female mind more than this because–as others have mentioned–this is just a woman voicing men’s preconceived notions of what they think women think. In other words, it’s a woman trying to think like a man, and it makes as much sense as a man writing an article for Cosmo entitled “What Your Shoes Say to Men.”

          • 0 avatar

            Thank you so much! I’m happy you enjoyed my Polyvore collection of the 2012 NYIAS.

            Also: I’m back writing on these pages, and if I somehow am able to return to NY Fashion Week (sponsored by Mercedes-Benz), you just might see more of that.

        • 0 avatar

          How does 35 sound? *points to self*

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      “You piqued my interest by saying as a blonde female in her mid 20s, you are the antithesis of the normal automotive journalism audience. Then you follow that up by showing us that your opinion of cars and the people who drive them is the same as the stereotypical blonde female in her mid 20s.”

      I noticed this too. Win us over by writing about your actual enthusiast cred, if it infact exists.

      • 0 avatar
        Mr Imperial

        I give some credit for coming to such a male-populated forum. I wouldn’t go to a more women-centric site and do the equivalent of this piece over there.

        • 0 avatar
          Quentin

          I’d give her credit if she wrote something worthwhile. Click-bait, stereotypical nonsense. I’d be happy to write something for Jezebel if I felt that I had something worthwhile to write for them.

          Prius wagon with a baby seat in the back
          You think: Zero f*cks given
          We think: Zero f*cks given

          • 0 avatar
            danio3834

            “Click-bait, stereotypical nonsense. I’d be happy to write something for Jezebel if I felt that I had something worthwhile to write for them.”

            I agree. Actually, this article would have been more appropriate on Jezebel.

          • 0 avatar
            DeadWeight

            Dumb, empty calorie article having no journalistic or automotive value, written by someone who appears to believe that she is living in one of those chick flicks, with a white horse, knight in trust fund armor & a huge circle of friends and relatives that make them the center of the universe and hang on each and every one of their words, deeds, emotions & sentiments.

            I award this article 1/2 a Coors Banquet Beer fart.

          • 0 avatar
            windnsea00

            I agree. Being 27 in LA this would be a girl I would avoid instantly, and I drive a fun car worth more than a Corolla.

            Funny how shallow people move to so.cal but the natives are often the opposite. (I noticed the headline picture is downtown San Diego).

            Easy way to know someone isn’t a driving enthusiast is if they knock the Miata or Boxster, case in point.

          • 0 avatar
            racer-esq.

            Getting published in Jezebel or any similar identity politics screed is easy, just throw out the right words, like, in Jezebel’s case, “patriarchy” and “misogyny”.

            A good example is the Sokal affair, where a physics professor got a joke article published in a “postmodern cultural studies” journal by using the “correct” words and references in the article, despite the article lacking any substance.

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_affair

            You could do a review of the Corvette, and get it published in Jezebel with sentences like “The 2014 Corvette is a great car, and a strong value compared to its misogynistic competitors, but still starts at $53,000 because of the patriarchy.”

          • 0 avatar
            Piston Slap Yo Mama

            Jezebel: nailed it. I desperately want the one minute of my life back that I wasted on this shallow, mundane drivel. I could not give a fart in a whirlwind what anyone thinks about what I drive, I do it for my own enjoyment. Jack, EIC & esq., what did she do to get this on TTAC? Spill the beans, I demand erotic specifics.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        Ding!

        I’ve never cared about impressing random women with a car I drove.

        I’ve *managed to do so* on occasion, driving cars that Caroline here would reject as Not Worthy – because I like women who *aren’t like that*.

        And, good God, why *would* I?

        A potential partner who thinks that old w115 is interesting? A keeper. One who wants you to drive a Mustang, and will try out the back seat with you, for what boils down to “because it’s a Mustang”?

        Will do that with *anyone driving a Mustang*, eh?

        That’s not attractive.

        (And to comment on comments below – no, I’d expect this at TheFrisky. Not enough self-righteously “feminist” content for Jezebel.)

        (As posted above, I sure hope this was *entirely* “ironic” or humorous rather than even 20% sincere.)

    • 0 avatar
      APaGttH

      Agreed also.

      If anything this read as an anti-car, you don’t need an auto at all piece. Something I’d read in the Seattle PI or some local “weekly” indie piece in a more liberal city. I really love the new TTAC but I hope and pray this is the last piece from this writer.

      This story reminds me of the Cougar Life ad I’ve seen on TV, where the woman sneers at an unseen 20-something, “oh so you’re a computer geek,” and the older woman leans over and says, “I wouldn’t say that, seeing how you fold sweaters for a living honey.”

    • 0 avatar
      Wacko

      I have to agree, she sounds douchy (if that’s a word)
      sounds like she only got a chance to write cause she might be the next vodka McbigBra.

      She clearly has more growing up to do…

      • 0 avatar
        dolorean

        Clearly Gentlemen, the lady has expressed her opinion of what many men that she has met over her life, and her friends/sisters/aunts/etc., have met, and is expressing that time honoured tradition of some men thinking with their Johnson when making major purchases. Some of these are cliches, the Porshe reference straight out of Joey Trebianni on a Friends episode, and some are things we all think (a Corolla a boring, cheap appliance? Sacre Bleu!). This is and was her introductory post, albeit a cheeky one, yet full of the snark that much of TTAC has been devoid of for too long. I will say I expect a bit more in her next post.

    • 0 avatar
      Hank

      Exactly. Nothing new, no code cracked, same old Redbook fluff.

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    This is gonna be GOOD…

    I’ll reserve reading all the comments for when I get home tonight.

    Mustang or bust, huh? Not much has changed since before you were born, obviously. :)

  • avatar
    jdog5280

    Typical American bitch.

    • 0 avatar
      jz78817

      and you’re a wonderful example of whatever culture you represent.

      • 0 avatar
        dolorean

        See jdog, in ‘Murica we’re allowed to have these things called ‘opinions’ that like your cake-hole, everyone has one and is allowed to freely voice them politely, without resorting to 3rd grade name calling and pithy gender grunting because we couldnt think of anything actually clever to say.

        • 0 avatar
          jdog5280

          I am an American. Weary of the attitude and won’t let my choices in life be dictated by what some spoiled girl thinks. That’s a stupid way to live. Especially if I want a Corvette or whatever…

          • 0 avatar
            Drewlssix

            You sure let what some stupid girl thinks dictate how you represent your self to the world.

          • 0 avatar
            azmtbkr81

            I feel your pain brother, do yourself a favor and find a nice Latin woman who still respects traditional values.

          • 0 avatar
            jz78817

            “I am an American. Weary of the attitude and won’t let my choices in life be dictated by what some spoiled girl thinks.”

            yeah, who told those uppity women they could have opinions?

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I don’t know if I would go that far, she’s trying to be both insightful and impart some humor.

      • 0 avatar
        olddavid

        The humor of most of this age group is hostile and not generous. Maslow’s hierarchy would be an excellent read for these kids. Self-actualization is good.

        • 0 avatar
          jandrews

          Agreed. The first thing I thought when reading this was “Yeah, she’s in her 20s alright.”

          I encourage my buds to avoid wasting time attempting anything serious with women under 35. Too much “all about me” and biological clock going on with the Millenials. They’re not done competing with their friends yet on who has the most Facebook-appropriate wedding/house/child/etc.

          “Older” (30s/40s) women, as a general rule, are more likely to have gotten over themselves and make far superior companions.

          Plus, they actually know what the hell they’re doing in bed.

          • 0 avatar
            kvndoom

            I know… those young hotties.. all of the looks, none of the moves. Would be a damn shame, but I think mind blowing sex is one of the nicest rewards of middle-age.

          • 0 avatar
            jz78817

            “Agreed. The first thing I thought when reading this was Yeah, shes in her 20s alright.”

            Unfortunately, the “best & brightest” appear to be in their teens given how quickly they start calling women “bitches.”

  • avatar
    Syke

    Nothing I drive registers on your list. Good. In the first place, I’m not looking. And screw up what’s living with me at home? No effing way.

    In the second place, I’m way too old to bother looking in your category. Unless you’re turned on by grandfather 1%ers. And you better be comfortable riding pillion on a Harley or Triumph.

  • avatar
    gsf12man

    You’re on the money about the Mustang, so who am I to argue about the rest? I do have a Ford pickup, and resemble Blake Shelton’s older, skinnier, poorer relative who doesn’t resemble Blake Shelton. But I don’t hunt, fish, or camp!

  • avatar
    raph

    “Ford Mustang

    You think: This thing is hot.

    We think: Yes, yes it is. It’s a shame the backseat is so small, but I’m willing to make it work.”

    Hah, because Mustang!

    On a more serious note, I don’t ever think I’ve used my Mustang to impress the fairer sex. Then again the two times I’ve been I’ve been tragically knocked head over heels for a woman enough that I thought it might matter they have both been dyed in the wool Camaro girls.

    • 0 avatar
      dolorean

      I never bought my Mustang for help with the ladies. Honestly, WGaS when you’re at the bar and she’s looking you over, she’s thinking either ‘Wow, nice shoes there Payless!’ or ‘nice eye contact and I like his a** in them jeans, so a drink couldn’t hurt’. Never once had the topic of ‘by the way, I drive a ‘Stang…wanna go try out that incredibly small backseat in your expensive dress and $300 Jimmy Choo’s?’

      BTW the FRONT seat of the SN95 and NewEdge Mustangs have PLENTY of room for uh, conversation…yeah, that’s it. Steamed window and creaking shocks conversation.

    • 0 avatar
      Compaq Deskpro

      Apparently, it worked for Jack.

  • avatar
    thegamper

    I realize this is not a an exclusive list or meant to be gospel on the subject, but I think most guys when confronted with such a discerning/demanding woman would run, not walk, in the other direction……possibly after you were impressed by their automotive choice, slept with them and woke up to find them vanished with a note that begins, “its not you, it’s me”.
    I like your take on the subject though. Despite it not being part of your article, I think you might agree that most women might make some sort of generalization about a potential suitor based on his ride, but in the end it really doesn’t matter and the totality of his character, education, personality, accomplishments, ambition …..is more important.
    Though I am married, if while I was single, I ever met a woman who was put off by my meager wheels, I would call her shallow and I would happily feel free not to call her.

  • avatar
    brettc

    A lady writing on TTAC is a nice change. However this isn’t a great starting point. I know a guy that met a nice girl and even married her and he was poor and driving a ’98 Corolla at the time. I’m sure others have similar stories to refute your stereotypical claims.

    Anyway, welcome and hopefully this is the first and last article like this. I don’t care what blonde twenty somethings might think of what I drive as I’m married already and enjoy my Jetta wagon.

    • 0 avatar
      Maymar

      I didn’t have a car when I met my wife (since we were 14), and drove a shitbox Cavalier when we started dating (she occasionally admits to missing it). Even now, I drive the shitbox she bought for grad school, since we only needed one car, and it’s paid off.

    • 0 avatar
      typhoon

      “A lady writing on TTAC is a nice change.”

      It really wasn’t, though. I haven’t cringed this hard at TTAC since Bertel was here.

  • avatar
    SMIA1948

    Finally, someone has recognized that cars are fashion, especially for men.

    I once took a course called “Dressing to Win.” The leader noted that the most expressive part of a man’s wardrobe was his car, followed by his body, followed by his ties (this was back when men wore ties more often.)

    Just as a woman can wear anything (pants, skirts, dresses, etc.), a woman can drive anything and it doesn’t mean much from a fashion point of view.

    Just as in clothes, men’s choices are much more limited. In this era, about the only vehicles that have a distinctly masculine image are pickup trucks, Bentley’s, Chrysler 300’s, and Mercedes S-Class’s.

    I’m too old (65) to worry about what women think of my car (on nice days I drive a black 1965 Pontiac Bonneville convertible), but I would be interested in what Caroline would make of my (single) 30-year-old son’s Honda Pilot.

    • 0 avatar
      thelaine

      SMIA, if you are buying a vehicle for business or to enhance your dating prospects, I agree. It is great to have an article from that perspective.

    • 0 avatar
      ctg

      SMIA, this is a great point. Regardless of whether you think you’re making a statement with your car (or your clothes), other people DO make judgments based on what you drive and what you wear.

      This article is stereotypical, but I also think its generally true. It seems pretty accurate in terms of judgments by women in the author’s demographic… except the Mustang. I’m a huge Mustang fan, but I think 90% of young, single women find them to be too “juvenile.”

      And that’s the point. The author has her biases, just like everyone else does, so drive (and wear) something that suits you. Some people are going to see a young professional guy wearing a nice suit, driving a new BMW and think “Wow! That guy’s ambitious, stylish and put together.” Other people are going to see him and think “stuck-up prick… probably compensating for something” Same with the guy wearing cowboy boots and driving a lifted truck. Some people think “Cool, rugged, honest.” Others think “Dumb hick… probably compensating for something…” :)

  • avatar
    rpol35

    The Mustang wins!

  • avatar

    What this really tells me is that you are part of the Negative Generation, the one that doesn’t really like anyone or anything very much.

    You remind me of an ex-lover of mine, who was a really cool chick. So cool she found negative things about everything around her. I fell for her thanks to her hilarious writing style, but the humor was always pointed against someone or something. Eventually she started pointing her daggers against me and we were both miserable, so I had to kick her out of my life for her own good. I felt incredibly sad doing it, but it was the only feasible course of action. She is now back in her native Canada and I think she’s even happily married with a kid.

    I’ve always tried to look at life with a smile and a ready laugh, seeing the positive in people and things more than the negative. You might want to consider that, too. It really does lead to a better life :).

    D

  • avatar
    slance66

    Message is simple, drive what you like and need and ignore what women think of it. If you bought your car to make a statement, the only statement you make is that you need a car to enhance your personality and self image.

    I have known women who knew and loved cars and those who viewed them as nothing more than a soulless appliance. Women fall into all camps. Some will like that Prius or Subaru, others the truck, or the Mustang. If you are using a vehicle as a fishing lure, just use the correct bait for what you want to catch.

    That said, I wonder what she’d say about Panther drivers?

    • 0 avatar
      Toad

      Best reply yet. If you are using a car as bait, you had better make sure you know what you are trying to catch. Especially if you are in a “catch and release” mode.

      In some situations what you drive does matter: if your position/career requires some displays of status (good clothes, nice office, nice vehicle) you need to play the game to win. If you are looking for a certain kind of mate, the same may apply.

      Otherwise, drive what makes you happy.

  • avatar
    xflowgolf

    Well… this is a rather cynical list. It’s easy to take pot shots at cars. The only one on that list getting a nod of approval is the Mustang. So since 95% of the list is “what not to drive” (20 out of 21 cars mentioned), what do-tell would you suggest someone actually should drive?

  • avatar
    jmo

    “BMW/Audi/Mercedes with the badges removed”

    I would take that to mean they are educated and well traveled as the likely did a semester in Europe and adopted the “no-badges” custom.

    • 0 avatar
      Slow_Joe_Crow

      20 years ago that might have been true, nowadays everybody knows that de-badging is Euro and refrigerator white with black steelies is JDM.
      Also by the early 90s everybody in Europe knew about taking off badges to make it look like you had a top model and were hiding it.

      • 0 avatar
        krhodes1

        In Europe it is more common to debadge the TOP models…

        • 0 avatar
          Wolf

          Agreed. Having the badge on a top model says “Parts for a 335i available, pick-a-part !”.

          Either you’re car-wise and can tell it has big brakes and the like, or it is just a gray bmw.

          Plus, Euro-car habits are quite different.

          And where does the Mercedes Viano Avantgarde fits in all this ? ;)

  • avatar
    kosmo

    You had me at “…….also, feel free to never call me at all.”

    Although I did win over my wife with my college beater 65 Dodge Dart, complete with VERY slow slant 6. We’re still going strong 28 years later, though the Dart stayed in the midwest when we migrated westward.

    Fun article! The site can use some new writing blood with a fresh perspective.

  • avatar
    Dweller on the Threshold

    “Caroline” makes a creditable effort at describing what guys think women think about cars. Funny stuff, that.

    But this is not proof that other minds exist.

  • avatar
    ash78

    Quite an exercise in negativity! Amusing, though…and since you both wore skinny jeans and mentioned them in the article, I’ll chime in:

    Skinny Jeans

    You think: I’m trendy and thin, so these will look perfect.

    We think: Clothes should accentuate your image, not hurt it. Especially when paired with flats, you’re visually making your legs appear shorter than they really are. Not attractive. But you’re probably cool, so Friend Zone is a definite possibility. :P

    Apart from Mustangs, what other positive/specific opinions do you have on particular cars? I expect most females to be “meh” on most cars — neither good nor bad, as long as you take decent care of it. And I sort of like it that way…women already have enough materialism and commercialism thrown at them through retail and advertising. NOT caring about cars is a big plus to this enthusiast.

  • avatar

    My wife is pretty open to letting me buy what I want and I have shortened the list down to something sporty but a good value and while she would be okay with a recent Corvette she is horrified that I am seriously considering a new Mustang GT. She equates the Mustang with the high-school losers of her youth whereas I just see those 400+ hp and that V8 exhaust sound. And she really really really hates hatchbacks of any kind (sniff, sniff goodbye, Focus/Fiesta ST thoughts).

    • 0 avatar
      LeMansteve

      The wife can put up or shut up. Outside of practical concerns like budget constraints, not even your wife should have influence over the kind of car you get.

      • 0 avatar
        Fordson

        This. Most households are two-car anymore…I don’t get this need to have my wife sign off on the car I drive. I sure as hell did not sign off on the car she drives.

        • 0 avatar
          Drewlssix

          After my Mazda blew up I let my wife gradually persuade me to trade up to a full sized pickup. You know, to make it easier to bring home the stuff she scores of craigslist and to move parts around for the fun project car that never came to be.

          And I have spent nearly 2 years in automotive misery plodding around in a lower mid level trim pickup that not only never inspires spirited driving but actively protests it while delivering mileage worse than the Mazda did during my most idiotic driving sessions.

          And just to rub salt in the wound she recently upgraded from her old Sportage to a new focus with sport package. Now every trip in the wives car is a teaser for what I should have been driving all this time.

          It might be an 80S beater or I may trade the truck in for a new 14 mazda3 but regardless I AM getting a fun car again.

      • 0 avatar

        Do wives shut up?

      • 0 avatar
        Lou_BC

        @LeMansteve – really? get laid much?

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      I was one of those “high school losers” with a muscle car when I was 16. Everyone who says stuff like that is just green jelly. Why should I care when I’m doing burnouts in the back parking lot while they wait for the bus?

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      I say unless she’s paying for it, give her one veto and that’s it. I don’t care for hatchbacks either but I wouldn’t stop a significant other from buying one, esp if I was allowed to at least forbid one thing.

  • avatar
    LeMansteve

    This was mildly entertaining. I request a list from a male perspective of women’s choice of cars.

    • 0 avatar
      bachewy

      Is she hot? Doesn’t matter. ;)

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        “Hot” should only be part of the equation, hot and annoying/stuck-up/moronic/selfish/drunkard only gets you one ride on the roller coaster. Ideally you should be looking for hot and other better qualities and give out a season pass.

    • 0 avatar
      DenverMike

      Women are the cheapest bastards that’s ever walked he earth. Unless some poor sap is making the payments plus gas card on the new BMW, lifted monster truck or V8 anything, they’re driving a CPO Corolla, Mazda 3 or Subaru.

      • 0 avatar
        Dan

        If you looked at the price tags of their purses, shoes, cosmetics, etc, you’d be the first one because women certainly don’t. They spend like Democrats when it’s something they care about. Their problem is they care about stupid things.

        If they would put their intuition, scheming, and manipulating skills to a greater purpose than one upping other women they’d be running the world.

        • 0 avatar
          DenverMike

          And women will continue to spend all their wages on stupid stuff and retire broke if left to their own devices. I see elderly women everyday living in their van conversions in city parking lots eating cat food. Nice shoes though.

        • 0 avatar
          Willyam

          “They spend like Democrats when it’s something they care about.” —

          OMG THANK YOU! From a guy who’s net worth immediately started recovering from damn near nothing the minute after my divorce (even losing half the income!). A line that good deserves a thumbs-up!

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            @Willyam, as a divorced guy I know that feel Bro.

            (But they’re not all like that. The second one I found one that scrimped and saved to put $3000 down on her first car while a university student. That kind of fiscal responsibility was very sexy to me.)

      • 0 avatar
        punkybrewstershubby aka Troy D.

        By definition women cannot be bastards… Just sayin’.

        • 0 avatar
          Richarbl

          I suggest you consult a dictionary before pressing the box marked Submit Comment

          • 0 avatar
            shaker

            Mistake due to common usage; how many times have we seen this in movies?
            He: “I’ve had enough of this you BITCH!” (throws jeans jacket over shoulder as he opens the door of the motel room).
            She: “You BASTARD!” (Throws shoe at closing door).

    • 0 avatar
      dolorean

      Ahem…ANY women who heel/toes her car, preferably something with guts, is sexy. Period. Extra points if she can do in a skirt and heels. Major Grrrrr baby, yeah!

      Other than that, any car that you wouldn’t be caught dead in. NewBeetles with ‘flower’ eyes and wheels. Volkswagen Cabriolets. Pink anything. Any car with a thousand stuffed animals thrown across the back C pillar. A Yaris.

    • 0 avatar
      TW5

      No list. More like a spectrum.

      On the “cool” side are trucks and performance vehicles. On the “f**k no” side are luxury vehicles. All other cars populate the middle ground. Beware of girls who drive Minis, Fiats, Beetles, etc. You never know what you’re going to get.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      ” I request a list from a male perspective of womens choice of cars.”

      That’s easy, any CUV from…

      Acura
      Lexus
      Infiniti
      BMW
      MB
      Audi
      Jeep

      … If they didn’t marry well, a CUV from

      Honda
      Toyota
      Ford
      Chevy
      Kia
      Hyundai

      …If they’re older a CUV from

      Buick
      Cadillac
      Lincoln

      There, is that stereotypical enough for this conversation

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    I guess if I cared what was on the mind of random chicklets all my life, I’d a owned something other than pickups and Mustangs. Oh wellian.

    And AppleBee’s is a great restaurant. It filters out the gold diggers and hi-maintenance.

  • avatar
    evhguy5150

    Come on. This is garbage. You’re using the word “we” to proliferate your own biased opinions on cars and people who buy them. While I agree that a person’s car is a sort of statement, there are too many generalizations here (and they’re mostly negative).

  • avatar
    Lightspeed

    That was fun, more please. Best line was about matching your car and being yourself.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    You think: He cares what I’m thinking.
    We think: Have another drink.

  • avatar
    chevron

    Ultrasnark comment bait article.

    “Step aside boys, it’s a GIRL coming through”
    Later
    “Why do they treat me different? Fking patriarchy”

  • avatar
    Stumpaster

    A girl who prefers Mustang over everything else is kind of trailer-trashy in my book. Probably buys Gilette for shaving and not going to a waxing salon. And I don’t mean to wax the fenders.

  • avatar
    danio3834

    Gosh, I’m glad I’ve never bought a car with a fleeting thought as to what a woman would think. Apparently, it’s a complete waste.

    What was I driving when I met my wife? Hmm. An Intrepid R/T that got totalled shortly thereafter, a beater Chevy Corsica, a 1976 Charger and a beater ’87 F150 with a 300 straight six/4 on the floor. And she stuck with me. She must have been desperate, huh?

  • avatar
    TW5

    ….and women wonder why men are only interested in rough casual sex.

  • avatar

    i ain’t sayin she’s a golddigger, but she ain’t messing with a broke…. madanthony

  • avatar
    CobraJet

    Will a 69 model work? Oh well, I’m way to old anyway.

  • avatar
    340-4

    May be applicable for self absorbed hipsters, but yet amusing and shallow. I’ll bite.

    See, ’round these parts, a guy in a full sized truck gets the linedancers just WET, particularly if it’s a 3/4 ton. Look for an early pregnancy if it’s a diesel.

    A German car is exotic and means money. Ride that train for all it’s worth, Fancy!

    A slammed 25 year old Japanese car in primer means fast, furious, and mysterious. And weed. Watch out for roofies and psychotic ex girlfriends that show up at your treatment class!

    Old Ford Trucks can likely mean horses, but the older the truck, the more likely he shares a doublewide – but chicks dig flatlanders, particularly if Wildfire needs a rubdown. Bring the groats!

    So, what do you think of a guy that has several cars he’s restored largely himself, and cares and feeds for them appropriately over several decades?

    Whoops, over 40 and thus invisible no matter what the primary vehicle.

    Enjoy your wine coolers!

    • 0 avatar
      jmo

      “Look for an early pregnancy if it’s a diesel. ”

      Ahahhahaha.

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      Dude, she’s from the South and those women can seriously drink.

    • 0 avatar
      Kaosaur

      “A slammed 25 year old Japanese car in primer means fast, furious, and mysterious. And weed. Watch out for roofies and psychotic ex girlfriends that show up at your treatment class!”

      My RX-7 is exactly 25 years old, nearly as old as I am. No primer, but that paint sure is peeling. No weed or roofies here though, thanks, and the psycho exes are long-gone.

      I’m glad my car is mostly-invisible to women. That’s not what I bought it for anyway. There’s absolutely no room to get down in it and I don’t let anyone ride in it. With no safety features, it’s a rolling death trap — if I’m going to be driving someone around, I’m going to be responsible and do it in safe car.

      • 0 avatar
        Elena

        Invisible to women? I guess if they’re blind: it’s so low you have to look twice to believe it. And deaf. A rotary engine sounds like nothing else. Even if you kept the stock exhaust I’ll be looking around to locate it on approach. Ride in it? My kind will take the wheel from you instead. Good news is I’m almost 50 so you’re safe :)

        • 0 avatar
          Kaosaur

          They sure don’t make them like they used to. ;)

          I’m not talking about cars.

          • 0 avatar
            Elena

            Nothing is what used to be: not even nostalgia :) Now serious: you have a really nice car. Get it painted some dark slightly metallic color and you’ll enjoy looking at it as much as driving it. Will draw lots of attention (warning: cops will look too).

  • avatar
    brett_murphy

    This article is a brilliant first piece: you wrote something controversial and sure to generate buzz while keeping it light and tongue in cheek.

    I’m past the point of worrying what women think about my cars. My wife gets the nice car and I drive whatever one of the others that happens to be working best at the moment. I’m like a Hooptie Jay Leno.

  • avatar
    Domestic Hearse

    Rewrite this, Caroline.

    No predictable cars. No stereotyping. No dick humor.

    Go sit at a parking garage with the attendant. Watch vehicles come in, note their driver, look for anomalies, original characters. Read CrabSpirits vignettes in Murilee’s Junkyard series. Read a few of Demuro’s pieces. Go to Regular Car Reviews on Youtube. Make me laugh. Give me insights. Tell me anecdotes perhaps, “The guy I dated who drove the leaky British roadster…” Or, “My best friend’s brother, who drove a 72 Nova…” And weave some narrative around your type-casting in order to make it original.

    Here’s your chance, kid. Some good writers have used this venue to launch journalism/writing careers. Stretch. Reach. Run stuff by Baruth. Shock and awe. Be inventive. Piss me off. Make me shoot coffee out my nose. Make me go back to read a turn-of-phrase twice, just to roll it around my brain.

    Good luck. And remember, write drunk, edit sober.

  • avatar
    sneh

    The title made me want to read this article. But i was disappointed. I expected better from a TTAC article than a shallow rant. I have a 2012 mustang GT 5.0 and a 2013 infiniti g37xs. I did not consider a girl’s perspective when i bought either of them.

    funny thing is my Wife drives a 2011 camry SE. Never seen her in dockers.

  • avatar
    z9

    The coolest guy I know, who seems to impress women without trying, always seems to be driving reasonably nice late-model VWs or BMWs that have been sideswiped or in some other way trashed. The types of cars most people would get fixed. What does this say? I think it says, “I can afford a nice car but I am too busy having a life to deal with it.”

    Or maybe it just says, “I park my car on the street in a bad neighborhood.”

    Either way, it is working. Something to consider.

  • avatar
    Feds

    I took my then-girlfriend (spoiler alert: Now wife) on our first weekend away in a 12 year old Mazda 323. It died crossing the border and couldn’t be restarted. 4 US border agents pushed us through customs and abandoned us just past the window.

    Handily, we were headed to Vermont, so bump starting was pretty straightforward for the rest of the trip. Since then, we’ve owned exactly 1 car newer than 12 years (an ’03 Protege 5 bought new, sold in 2013).

    Fortunately she was able to see past the horrors of my “poor” (but interesting!) car selections and now enjoys a household income in at least the 98th percentile. Though she still drives a 20 year old minivan. And mine is 17:

  • avatar
    manbridge

    You think: I’ll post a selfie in a sun yurt for a bunch of hounds to garner mass clickage.

    I think: A few more Big Macs are in order.

    Cheek tongue above…. I don’t care what people, especially women, think of my transpo. Different vehicle every day and not looking to pick up any STD-carrying-tramp-stampers either.

  • avatar
    Yoss

    Huh. I thought TTAC was better than this. (Well, at least slightly better.) Apparently not.

  • avatar
    kenwood

    Thanks Caroline, and welcome to the cockpit. We (oops, well some of us) look forward to more of your work. So, besides the Mustang, what are some other rides that leave a positive impression on you and your peers?

  • avatar
    VenomV12

    Ha ha, this is funny and found this to be pretty much true with most women. I noticed she left out SUVs from her list, the only vehicles that women actually care about. Escalade, Range Rover, Cayenne etc, that will get their attention. I have found women have little to no interest in Ferraris or Lamborghinis but somehow even though we know this, we still buy them thinking they do. Women really do think Corvettes are for old men, my one girlfriend and her sister always talk smack about them when they see them and make comments like that.

    They do love Mustangs though, which is strange because they are cheap garbage on the inside. More than one woman has referred to my Mercedes as a BMW and did not really seem to care when I corrected them, and was perfectly content to continue referring either brand by each other’s names. They do like old muscle cars also.

    My take on women with regard to cars is this, they only care about how nice or expensive your car is based on what they think your ability to give them the life they want is based on your car. You think “ooh, she likes me because I drive a Ferrari”, she thinks “ooh, he can build me a nice big house, buy me expensive handbags and shoes, take me traveling and I won’t have to work, or work hard and I might be able to get a big divorce settlement down the road”.

    SUVs can carry the kids, they can carry the shopping, groceries, their moms, you know, all the stuff they actually care about.

    • 0 avatar
      krhodes1

      +1 My Range Rover attracts more female attention than anything else I have ever driven. Too bad I am not interested. :-)

      They seem to really dig the Abarth too though, go figure.

  • avatar
    jz78817

    I have a Mustang, but because I really like Mustangs. Not because I’m trying to impress anyone.

  • avatar
    dolorean

    Caroline, great post. GREAT photos. Sure to drum up tons o’ controversy. Question for you that has plagued men, whether or not they know it.

    I bought my ’95 Mustang Cobra Hardtop Convertible when I got back from my second tour of Iraq in early ’06. I bought her because she was a very rare ‘Stang with a factory hardtop, she had the last true 5.0 302 smallblock built in Cleveland (as God intended), and mostly because it was the car I desparately wanted in high school and could never afford and so was forced to drive a ’84 Mercury Lynx with no A/C.

    The issue becomes the Dazed and Confused conundrum. I love my car because no matter how old I get, she stays the same age. However, those who see me driving around, now pushing 40, will they think, ‘Wow, nice mid-life crisis there gramps!’ or ‘Wow, bet he’s had and loved that car a long time’?

    • 0 avatar
      Toad

      They probably think “he is driving an old (but not collectable or classic) Mustang. Must be poor.

      Glad you love your car, but for most car people the 70’s-90’s era Mustangs are hard to like, much less love. You and I were cursed in that the cars of our youth just were not really great cars.

      Since you did two tours in Iraq (thanks, and a late happy Veterans Day) I am glad you are intact and enjoying the car you always wanted.

      • 0 avatar
        dolorean

        Thanks man. Will admit that I never thought my ’90s Stang would identify me as a pauper, considering the amount of change I’ve put into it over the years. Nothing special, just a Maximum Motorsports racing suspension and upper/lower control arms, heavy duty Ford racing clutch, Borla true dual off-road X-pipe, MSM ignition coil and racing distributer, Z rated tires and wheels from Tire-Rack, cold-air………..

      • 0 avatar
        old5.0

        Huh? The 79-93 was arguably the most popular Mustang ever built. For chrissake’s, they had their own magazines, their own racing sanctioning bodies, their own aftermarket industry, they did practically everything better than their ancestors… yeah, sounds like most people found them hard to like.

        I guess you could argue the old ones are nicer to stare at from your folding chair at the car show…

    • 0 avatar
      Caroline Ellis

      Definitely the latter. I want to remind everyone to pay special attention to the last paragraph. This unique car was the “one that got away” for you. You LONGED for this car. Your love for it runs deep. It’s real! Anyway, this is what I meant by being a match with your car. Dororean is a perfect example of a perfect fit; it was meant to be. You cannot deny love and yes, that includes the love a man has for their car. I believe anyone will be able to recognize the true quintessence you have with your mustang.

      You love it! Be proud, sport that sexy stang!!!

  • avatar
    el scotto

    LMAO. I think she lives within range of a Harris-Teeter; this will get interesting. I recommend Celia Rivenbark for more research on how the Southern woman thinks. Also, Southern Living and Gun and Garden for counterintelligence. If you live in the south, she’s read them. Miss, Southern women don’t sweat they perspire; should have some good articles. Back to cars,, the top goes up on the 05 GT convertible; Ford HVAC gets it cold enough to hang meat.

  • avatar
    Lie2me

    Women really judge men by what they drive?…

    .

    I’d say something snarky about preferring to be gay, but men are much worse at judging other men by what they drive

    • 0 avatar
      Sam Hell Jr

      They do. The difference is, men will look at a car and think make-model-year. Women will look at a car and think make-color-cleanliness.

      Bear in mind, there’s a horses-for-courses issue here, as ever. Your car expresses something about your situation and therefore about the extent to which you meet a women’s mating goals, and she is assessing that to a degree of specificity which would make your mind pop a fuse. Women looking for husbands will admire practicality; women looking for a fling may like some peacocking; women looking for an all-expenses-paid trip to Macao will admire MSRP. The only thing on which every woman I have ever met seems to agree, irrespective of her station in life and desires, is David Beckham.

    • 0 avatar
      beanbear

      So true…have you seen the pieces by the auto writer for VANITY FAIR?

  • avatar
    ggbox69

    If I want to be told things about cars in a conceited tone I’ll go to Jalopnik.

  • avatar
    el scotto

    Another Southern litmus test: Can she pee off a boat?

  • avatar
    jdhall

    I take this as humor, and a decent first article. Amazing how many folks seem to consider this seriously and take offense.

    Much better than the Booth Babe, btw.

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    “You think: I’m a manly man driving a manly truck.

    We think: You’d better look like Blake Shelton, or I’m not interested. Also, you’d better buy me some really sexy boots I can wear with my skinny jeans so my girlfriends will think I’m being ironic when I ride in it. Don’t even think about trying to take me hunting, fishing, or camping, either.”

    Well Sweetie, I own a 1967 Mustang and an F150 Heritage and like Blake Shelton I’m in my mid 30s and married to a woman who just hit 30 – therefore I have 0 interest in you. She doesn’t want me to take her out in the woods either unless its to do private things.

    When we met I was riding a 150cc scooter to work in the sake of fuel economy. Her comment as I walked up to the building out of the parking lot (we having fortuitously arrived at the same time): “Well at least I know your not compensating.”

  • avatar
    Quentin

    My complaint is that the article isn’t even close to original. Camry, Corolla, Accord, and Civic boring?! OMG, I have never ever read that on a car site like TTAC. Corvettes and exotics are driven by guys compensating?! WHAT A NEW, ORIGINAL, INSIGHTFUL VIEWPOINT!! Prius drivers are eco wienies? I don’t read that every single time that there is an article pertaining to hybrids or left lane loiterers. I wish Doug Demoro had written this article. I don’t care that he isn’t a female. He was 100x more entertaining and insightful in a round-about way.

    Anyway, there you go; I bit the click-bait.

    • 0 avatar
      Sam Hell Jr

      Unless her point was that, within the universe of women who care about this sort of thing, the stereotypes are accurate. Which, within the universe of women who care about this sort of thing, they are. I have a very intelligent, independent, self-secure female acquaintance who gave an otherwise unappealing suitor the time of day only because of his Range Rover. So it goes.

    • 0 avatar
      redav

      I think Doug would have hit this one out of the park exactly because he isn’t female. Like Homer Simpson, he would beg genius to find the dumbest item, and then attack it with relentless fervor.

    • 0 avatar
      Jack Baruth

      To be fair, if somebody asked Caroline to break a cross-country “record” with them, I think she’d have the balls to go.

  • avatar
    Astigmatism

    Brings to mind an old favorite of mine:

    =================================

    Reply to: pers-431649184@craigslist.org
    Date: 2007-09-25, 11:07AM EDT

    What am I doing wrong?

    Okay, I’m tired of beating around the bush. I’m a beautiful (spectacularly beautiful) 25 year old girl. I’m articulate and classy. I’m not from New York. I’m looking to get married to a guy who makes at least half a million a year. I know how that sounds, but keep in mind that a million a year is middle class in New York City, so I don’t think I’m overreaching at all.

    Are there any guys who make 500K or more on this board? Any wives? Could you send me some tips? I dated a business man who makes average around 200 – 250. But that’s where I seem to hit a roadblock. 250,000 won’t get me to central park west. I know a woman in my yoga class who was married to an investment banker and lives in Tribeca, and she’s not as pretty as I am, nor is she a great genius. So what is she doing right? How do I get to her level?

    Here are my questions specifically:

    – Where do you single rich men hang out? Give me specifics- bars, restaurants, gyms

    -What are you looking for in a mate? Be honest guys, you won’t hurt my feelings

    -Is there an age range I should be targeting (I’m 25)?

    – Why are some of the women living lavish lifestyles on the upper east side so plain? I’ve seen really ‘plain jane’ boring types who have nothing to offer married to incredibly wealthy guys. I’ve seen drop dead gorgeous girls in singles bars in the east village. What’s the story there?

    – Jobs I should look out for? Everyone knows – lawyer, investment banker, doctor. How much do those guys really make? And where do they hang out? Where do the hedge fund guys hang out?

    – How you decide marriage vs. just a girlfriend? I am looking for MARRIAGE ONLY

    Please hold your insults – I’m putting myself out there in an honest way. Most beautiful women are superficial; at least I’m being up front about it. I wouldn’t be searching for these kind of guys if I wasn’t able to match them – in looks, culture, sophistication, and keeping a nice home and hearth.

    http://gawker.com/304824/how-to-marry-a-rich-man

  • avatar
    mdao

    Personal experience as a thirty-something guy, the NC Miata gets compliments, the GH WRX gets quizzical looks. Neither seem to improve my odds though.

  • avatar

    The last paragraph was wonderful but I think it gets overshadowed by some of the snarkiness in the middle. In this kind of a list most of us skip through to find what we’re driving and then go to the comments (or to, in this case, the pic). That bit on “don’t try to be something you aren’t” hits home and makes the article worthwhile but gets sort of lost down there all by itself.

    I’m not sure how it is with most men, but in my case I got to a certain point where I became comfortable with who I am. I don’t feel the need to pose anymore, I just buy what I like or need and that’s is that. I see other similar comments above so I know I’m not alone. One day I might just buy someting cool, but that will be because it sets my own hear aflutter not someone else’s.

    Beyond that, welcome to TTAC. I think it’s great when young women write about their auto experiences and look forward to seeing your stuff in the future. I’d also, by the way, like to see more stuff by Ronnie Schreiber’s daughter. Her last article was really well done.

    • 0 avatar
      jz78817

      too bad some of the knuckle-draggers in the comments have to try to 4chan this place up.

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Just for jz7:

        She thinks: I’m going to post a bikini pic. That will at least authenticate my semi physical attractiveness.

        I think: If I had the desire to lay something that flat, I’d own a pickup truck or at least a minivan with stow-and-go rear seats.

    • 0 avatar
      Domestic Hearse

      The last paragraph also included…

      “Obviously a lot of what I’ve said here is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but there’s a lot of truth in it, too.”

      Essentially, she’s smart enough to know she phoned in a piece filled with stereotypes and car cliches, and is trying to justify it. If she’s smart enough to know that, she’s smart enough to go back and write it over again – this time, with originality.

      I too, would love to see more pieces by women. This one, however, is a well-worn rant followed by her plea that we, men, readers, be true to ourselves. Argh! Write something true first before dispensing such wisdom, which is itself more cliche.

      Like you Thomas, I’m many years married, have a daughter older than the author, and as a gray beard curmudgeon, drive what I want with no apologies or conceits.

      Ronnie’s daughter shows promise, I agree, and is writing from her true, real, experiences. This shows. I like her pieces. I like her. She brings originality and a new perspective. Caroline may be able to do the same, and I’m gonna give her a pass – in essence, no grade. Take a week, rewrite it. Dig hard. I’ll grade her piece then.

    • 0 avatar
      carlisimo

      Agreed on all points.

      I’m also a bit skeptical that she can speak for women as a whole. I always roll my eyes at articles that tell us what millenials like; we’re no more homogenous than any other demographic. I assume it’s the same with female car enthusiasts.

  • avatar
    DenverMike

    We drive what we drive because we’re enthusiasts. Some chicks can’t get their mind around the fact that not everything revolves around their vaginas. Some things, but not everything.

  • avatar
    SCE to AUX

    Nice pics.

    My wife met me when I was 22, driving a 9-year-old Pinto. She knew I was The One. Today, she’s happily driving our 12-year-old Elantra, and a minivan, and my Leaf periodically – all vehicles on your hate list.

    Thankfully, all she cares about in a car is:
    1) Is it reliable?
    2) Can we afford it?

    I’ll take a high-maintenance car over a high-maintenance woman any time.

  • avatar
    strafer

    This is what happens when too much bleach seeps into her brain.

  • avatar
    PonchoIndian

    Holy Shit!

    You allow a hot blonde writer to post her pictures in her article and the post comment numbers are through the roof like there is not tomorrow.

    I’ll also add that this was a pretty funny article, and the guy’s bitching are only doing so because they are taking it and their own life too seriously. She is right, there is some tongue in cheek truth to all of it too.

  • avatar
    bill h.

    This article reminded me of an 80s book I still have, which is partly described here:

    http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/tag/u-r-what-you-drive/

    Is Caroline as purported here (and I’m definitely willing to entertain the notion that she is writing tongue-in-cheek) an updated version of Tawny and her Beetle Convertible?

  • avatar
    Travis

    Tits or gtfo.

  • avatar
    JMII

    The bigger question here is WHAT does Caroline drive? That might impress me because her skinny jeans and bathing suit ain’t doing it. “impossibly tiny” yes… appears to be an A cup. Would not bang. Sorry I’m shallow too. Cheap as well, so is Red Lobster fine for a first date?

    Back on topic: I drive a 350Z which is based on the Infiniti G35 but somewhere between a Mustang and ‘Vette. My second vehicle is a Dodge truck which is required to tow my boat to go fishin’. So I’m covering most of the male stereotypes.

    • 0 avatar
      CoastieLenn

      Personally, (assuming that the pics are real) I find her to be quite a cutie so “different strokes, different folks.”

      Next, I have to ask what year your Z is and what generation Mustang you’re comparing it to- because if you’re including the current generation ‘Stang, your 350Z is nowhere between the two cars you compared it to. 370Z? Maaaaayyybe, but only under the right circumstances.

      Just sayin’.

    • 0 avatar
      dolorean

      Is Red Lobster appropriate for a first date? Answer, only if she’s not from the coasts and knows what real seafood tastes like or like me, hates chain restaurants with a passion. Try some originality, some charm, and some class (and for God Sakes, take a shower and brush dem teeth!) and she’ll dig whatever you’re driving.

  • avatar
    andreweku

    Well, that was entertaining. I’m not sure I would have come right out of the gate with an article written in such an arrogant tone, but to each his (or her) own. This doesn’t stem from a bruised ego – I’m a 30-year-old gay guy, so I’m not barking up that tree – but even for an admittedly tongue-in-cheek article, it was overly snarky. With a little more depth and substance, she could be a great addition to TTAC, but for now… meh.

  • avatar
    dude500

    Oh boy. Wasn’t there another lady on TTAC a year ago with a similar list and a view of cars from an aesthetic perspective? What happened to her?

    These “what girls think of a man’s car” lists are frequent on the internet. How about something more constructive? Other than the Mustang, what cars are you interested in? What’s important to you when you buy a car? What strikes you first about it? Is color important? I think there are several interesting avenues to explore here, and I’m sure you have some valuable perspective.

  • avatar

    I don’t actually match the “style” of any car I own. I have all my teeth.

  • avatar
    Silent Ricochet

    So what I learned from this article is: To get laid, I HAVE to own a Mustang? No thanks.

    I’ve had plenty of fun in the back of my Cavalier.

  • avatar
    early

    I think the question to ask is what was JB driving when he met you, Caroline?

  • avatar

    2003 Miata. Tell us what you really think.

  • avatar
    philadlj

    Over to me? Alright then, let’s turn this around. I’m in MY mid-twenties, I’M blonde, and I’m NOT female. So let’s look at what YOU think YOU’RE saying with YOUR car, and what you’re actually saying, according to us. By us, I mean I. I mean me. You. US!…U-S-A! U-S-A!

    Honda Accord/Toyota Camry/Nissan Altima

    You think: I’m sensible, I’m smart with my money, and I’m making a sound investment.

    We think: Yes you are…or maybe you just don’t care what you drive (which is fine!). Or maybe your family has always owned this model through the generations, and there’s no reason to switch up. It depends on the person. People aren’t all the same, even if they happen to drive the same thing.

    Honda Civic/Toyota Corolla

    See above, only slightly smaller.

    Ford/Chevy/Dodge Pickup

    You think: I’m a girl driving a manly truck.

    We think: Yes you are. We dig girls who drive pickups. Preferably old Toyotas!

    Chevy Corvette

    You think: I look sexy driving this thing.

    We think: Yes you do. Let’s race that 370Z in the next lane to the next stop light. I’ll watch out for Five-O!

    Infiniti Q50

    You think: It’s just as cool as a BMW.

    We think: Whatever floats your boat. We think it’s a bit too melty-looking, and we hear it’s less involving than the G37.

    BMW/Audi/Mercedes with the badges removed

    You think: Nobody knows I bought the cheapest one.

    We think: Did you? We actually don’t know unless we open the hood (or “bonnet”, if you’re British), but that’ll take a couple dates.

    Ford Mustang

    You think: This thing is hot.

    We think: Yes, yes it is. Even the V6, nowadays! We typically prefer Camaros, due to the worse visability and over-the-top concept-car looks.

    Porsche Boxster

    You think: I am total baller. Guys think I’m rich.

    We think: Perhaps! Or maybe you inherited it. Either way, nice car, missy! It handles better than the 911, I’m told, due to the mid-engine layout. 911s are for tools. REAL driving afficionados drive the Coxster.

    Ferrari or Lamborghini of any kind

    You think: This car causes a tingling…down there that I can’t get with lesser cars.

    We think: Once again, whatever floats your boat. Also, DAMN, you are LOADED! What are you doing Thursday?

    Any Subaru, especially a green one

    You think: This is a practical wagon that can hold everything I need for an impromptu camping or road trip, and still haul three friends around. It’s also a lot of fun to drive due to the low moment of inertia, and a lifesaver in our hilly neighborhood when things get wintry.

    We think: You’re our roommate! Did you ask Paolo about changing the timing belt? You should, he’ll get you a better price than Bryan. Also, did you happen to scoop the cat litter? Bette was sitting beside it, looking a bit put out. Oh, and did you see that Mustang abandoned halfway up the 20%-grade hill coated in ice? HA!

    Minivans

    You think: I need lots of space for my kids and their stuff, and nothing else delivers quite as much space for the coin.

    We think: Fine with us, just keep the little ankle-biters off our…er, ankles. My have they grown! Perfect height to headbutt us in our junk. GREAT. Hey, the sliding door on this Sedona stops when the fuel filler door is open! THAT’S SO CLEVER.

    Toyota Prius

    You think: My parents bought a newer one, so I got the hand-me-down XW10. It does okay on fuel, I guess.

    We think: That’s actually our favorite generation. Small, rare, and obscure. You’re driving HISTORY.

  • avatar
    bryanska

    Another reason to like Cadillacs. The new ones say “I drive what the F* i want, whattya you lookin at”?

    I want a woman that says the same.

  • avatar
    afflo

    Driving cars to attract moment is great. It attracts the shallow ones who care about such things, and filters them out for the rest of us.

    • 0 avatar
      Sam Hell Jr

      Speaking of which, you ever find that glove compartment rattle in your tC? I think it’s in the latch mechanism but the sucker’s a gremlin.

      Also, weirdly, the tC gets randomly complimented by woman on a pretty regular basis, and has nothing at all to do with why I bought it. Goes to show what I actually know about this topic.

      • 0 avatar
        afflo

        First of… to attract moment? That should have read “Women.” Wowzers.

        It wasn’t the glove compartment, it was the hatch area. I finally located it to the leading edge of the window glass, where the glass meets the hatch frame, over the rear seats. I think the glass was expanding in the Texas summer heat, and then rattling as it cooled. I stuck some rubber stick-on pads from Target (the kind you put on chair or furniture legs to keep them from sliding on linoleum) back to back to make little rubber cushions, and shoved them in the gap – solved it perfectly. It’s got 51,000 miles and has had its fare share of rough pavement from coast to coast, so no biggie for a cheap car.

        I’ve gotten a few comments (teenage kid next door likes it).My wife (just got married this summer) couldn’t care less about my car and motorcycle. We’re both early-mid 30s. Good riddance to status chasing 20 somethings and the jealous 30-somethings and unhappy, alcoholic 40-somethings they become. No thank you.

  • avatar
    jupiter119

    Ford Mustang

    You think(Gen Y girl): This thing is hot.

    We think(Men): People who drive Mustangs(especially those built after 67) have poor taste in cars and no style. I guess if your ideal car is a Mustang, particularly a convertible, then you are a woman. Who cares about a backseat anyway?

    • 0 avatar
      PonchoIndian

      A real car enthusiast thinks jupiter119 is an arrogant badge whore if that is his true feelings towards a Mustang owner.

      • 0 avatar
        dolorean

        Amen and well put. +100.

        • 0 avatar
          Sigivald

          I don’t really like Mustangs much, and I completely concur.

          (Admittedly, I hate convertibles, too. And don’t like coupes. So why WOULD I like Mustangs?

          But there’s no arguing with the value proposition in terms of drive-fun/dollar and resale, is there?

          A Mustang is by any reasonable standard a *hell of a car*.)

          • 0 avatar
            jupiter119

            Summary of a my brother’s 2012 5.0 GT
            Great engine, handles well, quality not on the same level as his SRT Challenger and surprisingly less roomy inside given the size of the car.
            Then you step out of the car and look at it’s boring bloated pony car retro body blandness and wonder why Ford or any other American car maker couldn’t put their awesome engines into light-weight purpose built mid-engined performance cars instead of retro muscle aimed directly at money wielding baby boomers more suited for automatic transmissions and creature comforts.

          • 0 avatar
            jz78817

            “Then you step out of the car and look at its boring bloated pony car retro body blandness and wonder why Ford or any other American car maker couldnt put their awesome engines into light-weight purpose built mid-engined performance cars instead of retro muscle aimed directly at money wielding baby boomers more suited for automatic transmissions and creature comforts.”

            This has to be the most stark example of “myopic, clueless car ‘geek\'” I’ve seen in a while.

            If you’re wondering why, it’s simple. They wouldn’t make any fucking money on it. They’re not in the business of placating whiny blog commenters.

          • 0 avatar
            jupiter119

            So your saying the only good car worth making is one that will make lots of money?

            I guess your other car(besides the girl friendly Mustang) must be a Toyota Camry since it’s such a great seller.

  • avatar
    Halftruth

    Haha- the fact that an under thirty something would even think I would be trying to “speak” to her directly or indirectly (thru my auto of choice) is pretty funny.
    I know better than to make an utter fool of my old self.. but hey, thanks for the laugh. Write some more please.. and if you ever sort out that Mustang backseat, kindly apprise us of any updates.

  • avatar
    gasser

    If a woman can’t tell the difference between a Maser and a Lamborghini, you’re not in L.A. Also if you are not 6feet tall, a genuine blond, waifishly thin and gorgeous with a knock out figure, you would not be allowed to even get in the line to date the owners ( not lessors) of said Maseratis in my fair city.

  • avatar
    punkybrewstershubby aka Troy D.

    I drive a blue Crown Victoria. What does this mean?

  • avatar
    pragmatist

    I got a big laugh out of this, yes I liked it.

    Unfortunately as a guy, I got a bit embarrassed by the posts that took it too seriously and reacted defensively.

  • avatar
    pragmatist

    The most significant line in the article was near the end about not trying to appear to be something you’re not. That advice applies to both genders.

  • avatar
    david42

    Great question, unoriginal answers. Caroline, presumably you know some more young women like yourself; why not have them fill out a little survey? For each car, ask them to score it from 1 to 5 on a few attributes that would get us to click through. Oh, and maybe ask them to add a comment about each car. Could be pretty interesting.

  • avatar
    cpthaddock

    Caroline – you may just be the right person to help with an ongoing problem. I have a co-worker “Charlie” who is trying to decide what should replace his aged (early 2000’s) hand me down Tahoe with the aim of impressing your demographic.

    “Charlie” is a self described metrosxual. He makes a decent living, but is something of a tightwad. He’s very appearance conscious, spends lots of time at the gym, yet is educated and not as superficial as the preceding description might suggest!

    “Charlie” needs a car that says you would be impressed by that won’t cost him a fortune. At this part, I argue that this invalidates everything from Europe unless it’s on a lease, and even then may not facilitate an actual replacement of the Tahoe. “Charlie” isn’t really all that concerned about “purity of driving experience” as much as image – point in case, he’s mused openly about Lexi (apologies Lexus owners!)

    I’ve actually recommended the Infiniti G37 / Q-whatever they call it now, on the basis that it is the BMW for people like him who, in reality are far too cheap to buy or maintain a BMW, and that as you point out, he should be true to himself.

    Based on your write up, he should probably be in a Mustang, however “Charlie” is too pretentious to go for a mainstream badge on his next ride. So, Caroline, what’s is your advice for Charlie, the early 30’s upwardly mobile image conscious educated heterosexual metrosexual professional tightwad?

  • avatar
    TMA1

    From my experience dating Asian women, there is only one answer to all these questions.

    Sedan? – Benz.

    Sports Car? – Benz.

    SUV? – Benz.

    CUV? – Huh? Benz?

    BMW? – Benz.

    How about Audi? – Maybe Benz instead.

    Lexus/Infiniti/Acura? – I don’t like the Japanese, and also Benz.

    • 0 avatar
      NoGoYo

      Nothing says “successful Chinese immigrant” quite like a S-class.

      Nothing racially or ethnically insensitive about that, Chinese people just really like Benzes…

      Over 50% of S-classes are sold in China, and they managed to shift 206,150 vehicles across the entire Mercedes-Benz brand range (MB, AMG, smart, Maybach) last year. China loves the 3 pointed star.

      • 0 avatar
        TMA1

        Koreans are big fans of Mercedes also. They’re nowhere near as common there though. Maybe because of the home grown Equus. Either way, I’ve known some girls who would absolutely flip if they saw the CLA. Stylish, huge 3-point star, and only $30,000? They’d probably drive me to the Mercedes dealer themselves.

        Luckily, they aren’t very aware of price points. Just get that star, baby.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          North Koreans love the “Benz” as they call it. This article talks about the cars of North Korea and the knockoff versions they have built.

          http://www.caranddriver.com/features/cars-from-north-korea-features

        • 0 avatar
          NoGoYo

          So you’re trying to sell me a CLA?

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            So lease is $298 for 36 months with $3083 down. It has similar a power band to my 3800 but yet won’t be able to hit indy shops for years (if ever). Also they are calling it a coupe on their website when it clearly isn’t. I still think its too expensive for what it is, but then again the mid-range Ford Fusion is close to 30K anymore. Mercedes is in a tough spot because if they make it too reasonable it hurts the image of the real Mercedes.

            Horsepower
            208hp @5500 rpm

            Torque
            258lb-ft @ 4,000 rpm

            Additional: I am really starting to understand the appeal of faux Japanese luxury. Mercedes is absolutely ridiculous on their website with pricing and options packages. C250 for 40K -for a four banger- and it comes with nothing? I may have to start an anti Daimler/BMW/Audi jihad.

          • 0 avatar
            hubcap

            “I may have to start an anti Daimler/BMW/Audi jihad.”

            Better yet, open a Diamler/BMW/Audi dealership.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    I like the article, kudos Miss Ellis and to the TTAC high command for bringing it to us.

    My view to “Gen Y” ladies is this, since I’m the one paying for it I drive what I like and couldn’t care less what you like in the automotive sense, hell a good bit of you don’t even have jobs let alone cars who are you to judge?

    When I was younger like many men I thought the Firebird, Mustang, or Corvette was where “it was at” with the ladies. Over the years I’ve learned women typically don’t care what you are driving outside of spoiled brats who got BMWs for sweet sixteen, and the trick with those is to find a way to challenge their Paris Hilton worldview (while being flirtatious) which usually intrigues them and then break them in two on date number three… shock and awe folks, works every time.

    One comment on the Mustang

    “We think: Yes, yes it is. It’s a shame the backseat is so small, but I’m willing to make it work.”

    Backseat is so high school and quite lame, I could understand the “getting caught” fetish but there are more attractive ways to fulfill that than play in the Rite Aid parking lot at 02:30. I wouldn’t even attempt this in today’s cars outside of a Yukon or Suburban and even then its called grow up and don’t live in mom’s basement. If this girl means anything to you at all spring for the Red Roof Inn, its $80 well spent. Kids today… sure lets bang in the Sentra! I sense a fail in the force.

  • avatar
    beanbear

    When I met my wife, she had a purple B13 Sentra, and I had a P11 G20. She thought the car was a little “fake it ’til you make it”, but let it slide since it was stick.

  • avatar
    jeremie

    As one of the 94.6% with a job, a home, and a family I’ve been supporting for 20 years, I could give a shit about what some kid thinks about what I drive.

  • avatar
    A Caving Ape

    This article was a bit of a letdown. As a guy in my 20s in Portland, I know quite a few women in their 20s. Amongst this hip, urban, heavily in debt set, really they’re just interested in whether or not a guy has a car at all. And yes, no matter how ecologically minded, virtually everybody still wants the people in their life to be mobile.

    But beyond that, hardly any of the women I know care. One really likes Priuses because you can sleep in the back and see the stars out of the big moonroof. Another has a yaris but lusts after the mazda2. Everybody loves my friend’s E30 convertible even though it’s a hopeless beater. I had the keys to a brand new G37 for a day, and after talking it up to my girlfriend, all I got was a “that’s it?” when she saw it, and she likes the inside of my 10 year old audi better.

    The best joyride-with-a-girl I ever had was in an electric car2go smart car.

    The point: the author might, but most of the women I know just don’t think that deeply about cars. And I think most of the men I know only do because of some cultural obligation they feel.

    • 0 avatar

      “As a guy in my 20s in Portland, I know quite a few women in their 20s. Amongst this hip, urban, heavily in debt set, really they’re just interested in whether or not a guy has a car at all.”

      I find this is quite common as well.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      I’m older, but also in Portland (and traditionally looking in a different set of the dating market, via hobbies rather than ‘meeting people’ randomly).

      But despite those differences, I agree: that rings true – women around *here*, at least in my circles, don’t really care what you drive.

      Having a car is always a plus, I hear (I’ve never been in the ‘not’ set), but … most women don’t seem to care what it is. They might like it if it’s “sexy”, or if it has some use for something they care about, particularly.

  • avatar

    You’re going to have to look pretty hard to find a car that doesn’t advertise itself w/some male driver accompanied by an attractive female. “C’mon,you too can score even if you’re driving the most boring auto appliance ever made!”
    Ms Ellis is saying not so fast.
    Young women find boring cars…boring.
    They find guys buying cheap versions of status cars-and trying to hide it…fake
    They find middle-aged men driving penis-replacements…kinda pathetic.
    Young urban women find pick-ups…not cool.(BTW,it’s interesting that pick-up ads are the exception to the stick a woman in the ad rule.)

  • avatar
    JD321

    Didn’t Genghis Khan drive a Camaro? Now there was a real lady killer.

  • avatar
    Reino

    While its nice to know there are SOME women under 30 who know something about cars, in no way do you represent ‘Every woman under 30′. Most women under 30 I know:

    -LOVE riding in pickup trucks and love the image of a man in a pickup truck.
    -DO NOT know the difference between a Boxster and a 911.
    -are turned on by ANY BMW, and do not know the difference between a 3 and 5 series.
    -have no problem with an older man in a Corvette, as long as it is convertible and automatic and he lets her drive it.

  • avatar
    Preludacris

    Where’s the meat? I understand the article is jokey, but are there women out there who’d be impressed by the same things I value? (I.e. I bought it with cash, the interior is spotlessly clean at all times, and it’s more fun to drive than 80% of vehicles on the road…) I’d actually be interested in learning more. Then again, if you say I should park around the corner when I show up for a first date in my ’91, I probably shouldn’t even bother going on that date.

    I’ve actually never dated or even really known a girl who cared about cars in the slightest, beyond “It gets me where I need to go and it’s cute.”
    (Not sexist, just life as I’ve experienced it…)

  • avatar
    Rick Astley

    Interesting article. Being in the 5% of single white male’s under the age of 30 who think “if a girl was interested in me for my car, she must be quite shallow. I’ll pump a few drinks in her and have fun.” (spoken from experience) gives me the clarity to call you out on a silly article.

    That being said, I drive a 2006 Mitsubishi Evolution with the silly spoiler and in a lovely shade of metallic blue? It’s loud, unreliable, rattles, has over 400 wheel HP and more rear seat legroom than a Mazda3 wagon. So it’s pretty much exactly what a single, tiny, blonde girl in her 20’s would want out of a guy anyway. (no?) :)

  • avatar
    KixStart

    RF once said something along the lines of, you don’t want to date a woman who likes you on account of your car.

    So, when it comes to the opposite sex, I’d say, drive what makes you happy & keep it clean.

    Drive what makes you happy because happiness is an attractive quality in people, so you will attract more friends of both sexes.

    Keep it clean because how you maintain the car says more about your personal habits and cars full of crap are a turnoff.

  • avatar
    Prado

    Caroline… She needs a golden calculator to divide.

  • avatar
    prabal34

    I still don’t understand why we are focusing on what the other sex thinks about your car. One should buy their vehicle based on their needs and/or wants. With that said, I drive a Subaru Wagon and always make sure it gets dirty during my “outdoorsy” trips :)

  • avatar
    Slow_Joe_Crow

    I guess my wife is even more unusual than I thought. I hooked her with an old BMW motorcycle because when we started dating I didn’t have a car. Subsequently she has become obsessed with bicycles so a car needs a bike rack and air conditioning. .
    Realistically, the few women I have dated were more interested in me than in what I drove, although a car was seen as a useful perk.

  • avatar
    fredtal

    At 61 years I really shouldn’t care what young girls think. The only cars that introduced me to women was a pretty yellow MGB, Honda CRV and Chrysler Minivan full of kids and a couple of dogs.

    I don’t know what to think of the Audi comment, because yes I bought the cheap one, but would impress you more that I paid cash for it and bought it used because I really didn’t want to spend retail or CPO price for it.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    Caroline are those Revos?

  • avatar
    ezeolla

    So what does my TJ Wrangler say (and is it different when the doors/roof are off)?

    I started dating my now-wife shortly after getting the Wrangler and we were in our early 20s. It must say a lot of good things about me

    • 0 avatar
      Caroline Ellis

      I am a fan of the TJ Wrangler! What year?

      My brother has a 95′ Land Rover Defender, a very iconic truck of its kind I must add. Nonetheless, I like to think of the TJ Wrangler as the Defenders little brother, (probably more like a half brother if we’re being realistic).

      My brother leaves his doors off of his Defender also. I love having that option with an off-roading vehicle however, he leaves them off ALL year round. You reach a point where enough is enough; especially in the low 30s with a 70% chance of precipitation. I will always have unfavorable memories having to make a mad dash for his truck, in sideways rain, just so I can get the seats out before they’re drenched. Nothing worse than wet ass all day in the winter. Sucks!!

      • 0 avatar
        ezeolla

        It’s an 05. I agree with you about the Defender being the slightly more grown up (and much more expensive) brother.

        I live in PA so doors off year round is not an option. Today for example, it was about 25* on my way to work (which is an hour long commute). I tend to keep my eye on the weather so I don’t get caught in rain storms, but I always keep a towel in the back just in case.

        But you didn’t answer the question! What do 25 year old girls think of guys in Wranglers?!

      • 0 avatar
        DeadWeight

        Your brother has a 95′ Land Rover Defender, and leaves his doors off ALL year round?

        What do women of your age, world view, education, intellect, taste & discretion summarily think about him based on this?

  • avatar
    stuntmonkey

    One summer 3 of my friends met their eventual wives or at least a stable girlfriend while driving Corollas…. not by choice. they were all hand-me-downs or rentals, but all of the gals were keepers and really terrific people in general.

    Corolla = chick magnet.

  • avatar
    TybeeJim

    I don’t think the author has a clue. And what about Automobile! Jean Lindamood, a real woman and a car person first class heads it up and Jean knows cars. I’ve now owned 38 different cars and trucks over my life and my wife of 30 years drives (and loves) her Mercedes CLS. What does that say about her? Me? I recently traded my Cayman S for the “grandpa” Audi Q5 but I keep a Mini Cooper S on the side for driving fun. Some folks may think their car says something about them and usually it does, good or bad, responsible or not. One thing I learned here though is that not all A*#holes are guys. There’s at least one 20 something blonde that fits the bill.

  • avatar
    lostjr

    I let my wife choose the primary car. I guess we know what that says about me. :-(

  • avatar
    mitchw

    When you gals are smiling at me at the light, twisting your whole bodies as you walk by it when it’s parked, and blurting out to me how much you like ‘my car,’ I don’t have to be a rocket scientist, half owner of Google to figure out that you like my 90’s era Miata.

    Wanna text?

  • avatar
    Alfisti

    The only issue i have with judgments from anyone re. what you drive is the whole “MID LIFE CRISIS” call.

    You can do what i did and plumb for a special car early, in my case a restored but slightly meaner than stock looking Giulia coupe. Everyone love dit, men, women and children alike, it was gorgeous and sounded like a real car and took a bit of nous to drive it. So great, I broke the “wait till you can afford it” rule and got it done early.

    You know what that car cost me? In the vicinity of $300,000. The money I used to buy it was either going to the Alfa or a house, this is Australia circa 1999 ….. said $170K house is now worth in the region of $600K. FAIL.

    Most sensible people wait until they can afford it. Since then i have purchased a home, have a wife and baby and can mayyyyybe look at a Boxster S in a few years. Mid life crisis? No, I just like convertables that handle well and have a bit of power, it’s either an MX-5 or a Boxster isn’t it.

  • avatar
    Willyam

    The “don’t be something you’re not” line rings so true for most of us average Joes without brittle egos. Being “real” is important with Gen-Y and Millennials, just as faking indifference was Gen-X’s reaction to the eighties.

    Very attractive people play by other rules. I had a boss about ten years ago, in his late thirties, ex-footballer, looked like an action hero. Made great money. Owned a Lexus sedan for commuting, but because he had grown up rural still owned a passed-down mid-eighties 4×4 short-box in rust. Stiff suspension, cab full of blankets and dirt, and huge chain wrapped around the bumper. Not a rope, actual chain. Since he looked like a movie star, women of ALL types (married, single, pierced, models, cougars) would constantly hit on him. What he apparently did when there was one he deemed worthy was arrange to meet, then pick them up IN THE TRUCK. Just to judge whether she was cool or not, I guess. We lost touch years ago, so I can’t say what the result of this game eventually was.

  • avatar
    Nostrathomas

    Oh look, it’s a plain jane version of Erin Burnett.

    I expect better than this kind of shallow click-baiting crap, TTAC.

  • avatar
    sideshowtom98

    My only question is what she traded to JB to get her 15 minutes of fame, although I think I can guess! Now that you are disgusted with my shallow, sexist assumptions, you understand the reaction your article had on me. As the father of 2 strong, succesful women, one in your age group, I am glad they understand what is truly important in dating material. I hope TTAC limits you to your already undeserved 1 column. JB, learn to behave on the road, and don’t subject us to your hangover promises again!

    • 0 avatar
      Compaq Deskpro

      JB got his 15 minutes as well.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        *** YOU WIN ***

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          Funny post but I’m telling you this skinny chick doesn’t fit his MO. Until I hear otherwise from the man himself I refuse to believe he gave a thin girl with out significant endowments either upstairs or downstairs any attention.

          • 0 avatar
            Caroline Ellis

            Smart man, PrincipalDan.

          • 0 avatar
            PrincipalDan

            @Caroline, forgive the crudeness of my phrasing but Jack has certainly given us a sense of his “id” over the years. Some commenters around here think he’s one of those guys with: “Woman, woman, woman.” running through his head like Animal from the Muppet Show. However if you’ve been paying attention (like me) you know he definitely has a “type.”

            But of course any man who has gotten past his early 30s and doesn’t think he has a “type” is an idiot who doesn’t really know himself.

  • avatar
    Ryoku75

    Some of these I sorta agree with, but I must ask what sort of image that Volvo 240s give off?

    Usually I don’t judge a person by what they drive but instead how they drive and how they take care of it, theres a local guy with an almost brand new Civic with pace-car markings on it.

    • 0 avatar
      afflo

      I took note of the “how they take care of them” part.

      If you haven’t read it, check out “Class” by Paul Fussell. He notes that strangely, the further up the class system* you go in the US, the less a car, and the less a clean car becomes a status symbol.

      The very wealthy often drive old, dirty cars. The spit-shined car in the driveway that is washed and waxed weekly is the domain of the “high prole” (successful blue-collar/working class).

      My dad came from a working class background, and many of my early memories involve him waxing his pristine, garage-kept man-chariot. My in-laws aren’t exactly old money, but come from more established upper-middle class backgrounds. They drive dusty, well worn Buicks, because, well, who are you trying to impress with a car?

      It’s a terrific read, and full of “Wow!” “Aha!’ moments, or at least it was for me. One of the most notable parts was that the further down the socio-economic scale you go, the more likely you are to find people who see class as primarily economic.

      • 0 avatar
        davefromcalgary

        To me a clean car isn’t about impressing people. I keep my car clean because I keep EVERYTHING clean. Some would say obsessively so, but that is another discussion.

        I just can’t stand my stuff being dirty or broken, whether winter beater or boulevard showpiece.

      • 0 avatar
        Ryoku75

        I’ll give that a look, I don’t clean my car as much as I should (money trouble mainly) but I do try to keep litter out of it, I’ve gotten complements on how well it runs.

        I try to keep my car clean but constant weather and such often spoil fresh washes,

        Its interesting how so many things in that book are a bit reversed, not what you’d expect.

      • 0 avatar
        hubcap

        “The very wealthy often drive old, dirty cars.”

        The very wealthy drive whatever they fancy and they’ll keep it in whatever condition pleases them. The very wealthy most likely have multiple cars, some even have drivers.

        Methinks we need to define what “wealthy”.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I guess I’m a little disappointed that a woman “involved with car culture in one way or another for most of her life” would fall back on old clichés or even judge people by what they are driving at all.

    Plus, the most attractive woman I’ve ever met is married to a guy that drives a silver 2.0L Jetta. And I’ve dated lots of women that liked Applebee’s. So there is that.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      Yeah, what is actually wrong with Applebee’s anyway? I’m no connaisseur, but it looks like a standard sit down joint with edible food.

      • 0 avatar
        Sigivald

        It’s fine if you’re traveling and need consistency; the food isn’t *bad*, but it’s not great either.

        I find I can get better food for the same sort of money at non-giant-chain restaurants, in places I know.

        I wouldn’t refuse to eat there, but it would reveal someone Not Interested In Food.

        Which might not matter, either. But it’s data.

      • 0 avatar
        Wheeljack

        My issue with Applebees is that they don’t do anything particularly well. Most of the other chains have some signature dish that they invented or that put them on the map and they still generally make that one thing quite well, even if the rest of the menu is meh.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      “I guess Im a little disappointed that a woman involved with car culture in one way or another for most of her life would fall back on old cliches or even judge people by what they are driving at all.”

      Yeah, cause the guys here would never do that.

      • 0 avatar
        ajla

        “Yeah, cause the guys here would never do that.”

        That is a valid point, but it’s also unfortunate when others (or when I) do it.

        Plus a comment is a bit different from a complete post. I guess from the introduction I was just hoping for something a little bit newer than what was given.

  • avatar
    S197GT

    I had to finally register so I could comment on this. I found the article entertaining… but then I own an ’06 Mustang GT. FTW! (But I’m also married… whaa whaaa whaaaaaaaaaaa!) Wait a minute… own a Mustang… Married… Mustang owner, married! She’s right!

    But seriously, all these guys getting so offended! Get over it! It’s one lady’s opinion… (though probably widely held) it is what it is and tongue-in-cheek (somewhat) at that! But honestly, in my experience, for a young guy who is just trying to play the casual dating game, it isn’t bad advice to consider.

    Having said that… if you are trying to impress a woman with your car you are doing it wrong. In my personal experience when I had a motorcycle I found it a lot easier to find a date. If a girl had any interest in my at all I had to do was mention I owned a motorcycle and she would usually ask for a ride very quickly and un-apologetically.

    But I also remember doing a burn out in a parking lot with a long-time female friend who yelled, “Oh my God that is so hot I want to rip my top off!!!” She was joking, somewhat, of course; she and I love shock value in our conversations. But when I was still single I did get requests for rides (in the car).

    Caroline, I got the point of your article. I look forward to more.

    I do think you forgot to mention the Jeep Wrangler. Chick magnet! The only thing sexier to a woman than owning a Mustang or Wrangler is letting her drive. Caroline, can I get an amen?!

  • avatar
    beanbear

    Here’s a better example of a similar piece, though a bit of an apples-to-oranges comparison:

    http://www.vanityfair.com/style/stick-shift/2013/10/bmw-328i-x-drive-ultimate-gay-car

    But keep at it, Caroline. Writing is a craft.

    • 0 avatar
      Piston Slap Yo Mama

      The Vanity Fair piece is salient, cogent and informative if that’s your demographic. This … whatever it is by Caroline is none of those things.

      Caroline: your drivel was more banal than the crap my high school “friends” post on Facebook. It was so bad that I’m questioning the professionalism of Herr Baruth for posting it …

      Hmmmm – 464 comments and counting. I guess he knew this instruction guide for gaining access to your naughty bits would stir up a complacent readership. I’m NOT impressed.

      Don’t keep at it, Caroline. Writing is a craft.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    I have a white 82 Dodge van with newspaper over the passenger windows and a license plate that reads AMBRLRT. I hate my mom. All my shirts are undershirts.

    I’m confident enough to not care what women think about my car. I drive what I like.

  • avatar
    Caraholica

    OK Put it back in your pants JB. Yes, I know, it did get 230 comments.
    so far

  • avatar
    redav

    “feel free to never call me at all.”

    If the article reflects reality, I don’t think that would be a problem.

  • avatar
    deepster

    One of the most entertaining posts I’ve seen at TTAC in years! What could more “truthful” than what ladies think about cars?! Don’t hold back now, tell us what you think about minivans, and while you’re at it, how about hot hatches, too?

  • avatar
    Charles T

    When I bought my cream-yellow 1973 Saab 96 I had no idea at the time that I’d happened upon an accidental..well, person magnet in general. Car guys love it because it’s an old Saab, non-car guys love it because it’s old and funky, and the ladies react like it’s a happy puppy. The reactions it gets range from actual squeals to “Never sell it”. Amazing.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      I get the same thing with my ’63 Thunderbird that’s a bit of a traditional kustom. Girls love to marvel sharp lines, swing away steering wheel (ZOMG WHATAGREATIDEA!!!1) and the belt-less seats (LOLWHYDYOUTAKETHEMOUT???).

      Simply having a unique or interesting ride seems to attract people in general, which always includes some ladies.

  • avatar
    Lou_BC

    I must say that the article was funny and in many cases true but then again, there is always a snippet truth to stereotypes.

    I do wonder about all of the indignation?

    All of the 45 year old Road and Track readers had their bubbles burst because they now know they would never have the slightest chance to find out what was beyond those “skinny jeans”?

    My brother sums it up rather nicely. When I bought my 45K pickup he bought a 40K Harley. He was filling it up at a gas station and several hot little women of this girl’s demographic stepped out of their car. He was trying to look tough and macho next to his bike. They looked at him, smiled, said hi, and giggled.
    He said it was sobering to realize that he was now seen as a “harmless old man”.

    Vehicles are used as fashion statements to portray an image to others. Most are easy to see through, as pointed out by Caroline.

  • avatar
    omer333

    But Caroline, don’t you know that sometimes, especially in the South, Applebees, DUIFridays, and Chili’s happen to be both fine dining and the only place in town offering 2-for-1 drink specials during late night happy hour.

    This is especially true in Alabama on Sundays when alcohol sales are illegal unless its a restaurant with a liquor license.

  • avatar
    stryker1

    Heh, I’m having fun trying to picture the insecure basket-case who’s running out to trade-in his Honda Civic for a Mustang GT based on this… article? Is that what this is?

  • avatar
    Crabspirits

    ” has been involved with car culture in one way or another for most of her life.”

    Therefore, her opinion is invalid. Girls of this type have a totally different M.O. for pretty much everything.

    Want to know what the average chick thinks? They don’t really care with the exception being a van, especially a minivan. Then, you’re just weird/married. They know when something looks expensive, and will develop different opinions from there. They don’t care about leases. They like trucks for the most part as long as it’s clean and they don’t have to drive them. I will agree on the Mustang only because it’s hard to get a bad read on somebody who drives one, and all girls know what it is. It’s youthful, wholesome, practical, understated, and “fast”.

    In the end though, if you give these opinions any weight, you’re “doing it wrong”.

  • avatar
    Drzhivago138

    When my father met my mother, he owned a next-to-new maroon Dodge Mirada and a mid-70’s Dodge D100 Slant-Six. Totally ballin’.

    Of course, she had an AMC Matador, 70’s-orange with white vinyl top and a “checkered” interior inherited from her sister, so it was a pretty big step up in comparison.

    • 0 avatar

      When my father met my mother, he borrowed my uncle’s AMC Gremlin for the first date. Then they took the bus. Then he got a Renault Alliance and my mom got a Chevette. 29 years later…

      • 0 avatar
        gtemnykh

        My father met my mother car-less, as was the norm in the Soviet Union. A few years later, once they were married, he had saved up and bought a well worn 1972 Zaporozhets 966 (in 1987). At this point owning your own car was still a very big deal.

        He proudly recalls rolling up in front of her work parking lot to pick her up from work on a Friday to go to a restaurant; also a big deal in those days.

        I remember spending a good hour or so washing and cleaning up my old Mazda (tire shine a must!) before going out on a first/second date. Never got weird comments for driving what is basically a lifted minivan, but definitely got a few compliments for an immaculately clean older car with a spotless interior. It shows that the date is important and demonstrates good personal habits and pride of ownership.

        Motorcycles are a mixed bag, some girls like them, others assume you are a reckless idiot who bought the bike to impress girls. Mine are old Japanese ones that don’t really fall into the harley/sportbike dichotomy thankfully. I had an ex that vocally opposed my riding, there’s a good reason she’s an ex! Boy did I feel like a badass in college bringing my XS500 to life with a quick jab of the kickstarter, the 2-1 exhaust barking to life before settling into a mellow burble. Rides were given strictly at a slow pace, and I insisted on decent gear being worn (helmet, closed toed shoes, gloves, jacket).

        • 0 avatar
          PrincipalDan

          When Dad met Mom? 1972 and he was driving a 1962 Bel Air sedan bubble top with a jacked up rear end and slicks mounted on mag wheels.

          Explains quite a bit doesn’t it?

    • 0 avatar
      Wheeljack

      My dad was driving a 1956 Jaguar XK140 Drophead Coupe when he met my mother. She loved that car. Imagine her surprise after they were engaged when he showed up for a date in a new 1962 Chrysler Newport:

      Mom: What happened to the Jag? Is it in for service or something?

      Dad: I traded it in on this. We’re going to need a family car after all…

  • avatar
    racer-esq.

    “Ford Mustang

    You think: This thing is hot.

    We think: Yes, yes it is. It’s a shame the backseat is so small, but I’m willing to make it work.”

    I mean, I’ll take it. FYI, reclined front passenger seat works better.

    I don’t buy cars to impress women, but out of curiousity, how do these rate in Caroline land (basically all the cheap sports car alternatives to the Mustang):

    Chevy Camaro
    Dodge Challenger
    FR-S/BRZ
    Miata

    Honda Accord/Toyota Camry/Nissan Altima = Dockers is by far the most on-point analysis here, I’m glad you led with that. I would also add anything by Acura except an NSX.

    • 0 avatar
      Caroline Ellis

      A Camaro does nothing for me. I don’t dislike them, I just feel like I’ve seen A LOT of them throughout the years. If it were me and I had $20,000+ to spend on a car, I would choose another option. Nothing against the Camaro AT ALL, it’s just not the right fit for me.

      I know the Challenger is kind of the new fad and I strongly dislike social conformity… However, I am on the Challenger bandwagon. They’re sleek and a little mysterious to me in a way. Makes me want to get in it and know more!

      I know I made a cheeky comment in the article about Subaru’s but, in all honesty, I like them. I have even considered a Subaru for my next vehicle. It would be totally AWESOME if it were a BRZ!!!

      Before purchasing my current car, a Mazda 6, I considered a tC. The reason I am driving a Mazda 6 now is primarily due to the fact that there were NONE in or around me to even consider purchasing; and I definitely could not afford anything brand new at that time. The FR-S is simply BADASS! It trumps the tC BY FAR! Would love to own one!

      A Miata is a Miata. It is kind of like the Camaro for me. Just doesn’t do anything for me. The only reason I would be in a Miata is if I could be in the sequel for Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift. Likelihood of that is IMPOSSIBLE, haha. So, I guess that’s a no on the Miata for me.

      • 0 avatar
        racer-esq.

        Interesting. I like that you are considering the cars individually, and not drawing some kind of import/domestic line.

        I agree on the Camaro, it is an also ran.

        The Challenger is third is sales, so I don’t see how it is conformist. But you end up approving, so no argument there.

        I am glad to see you like the FR-S/BRZ. A lot of Mustang fans would not. Get your brother to sell the Defender and you will have more than enough money for an FR-S/BRZ and at least a similar age Wrangler.

        You need to drive the Miata, it is a great car. And you will actually fit. Surprised to see you consider the Miata “Tokyo Drift” but like the FR-S/BRZ.

        I forgot to ask about the Hyundai Genesis 2.0T.

  • avatar
    Zykotec

    TBH, we (car enthusiast guys at least) buy cars to impress other guys, just like girls buy make up and clothes to impress other girls.
    Then our ranking amongst our peers decide what ranking of your peers may be ‘allowed’ to be matched with us.
    I should add this, as a car enthusiast:
    Awesome modified cars, Hot Rod/Streetracer/1200 hp Skyline
    I think :
    -I love this thing like nothing else, who cares about girls.Meh, I can hang with her for a while as long as she doesn’t expect me to pay for clothes/food/housing etc.
    You think:
    – He loves that thing like nothing else, he doesn’t care about girls.Meh, I can hang with him for a while until I need someone to pay for clothes/food/housing etc.

    • 0 avatar
      hubcap

      “TBH, we (car enthusiast guys at least) buy cars to impress other guys…”

      I’m assuming you’re speaking for yourself (and you know what assuming can get ya) but you did add the “we”.

      I’d say there’s a fair number of enthusiasts who buy cars based on the quaint notion of its what they want regardless of what any swinging d*&k or for that matter shaking t*t says.

      • 0 avatar
        Zykotec

        True, I should have added more steps on the ladder from being able to tell cars apart (and can buy accordingly, to impress their peers) and up to the hardcore enthusiast ones who don’t really have time for girlfriends or showing off. XD
        Criticism received and accepted :)

  • avatar
    omer333

    Somebody said something about t-tops, and all I could think of was “if the t-tops have footprints ON THE INSIDE, then you’re doing it right.”

  • avatar
    slance66

    Article was fun, and it got plenty of play in the comments, so warrants a few return engagements. Hopefully the tone will vary as we see more.

    I see a lot of comments about wives, girlfriends and whether they care or don’t care what you drive (or they drive). My wife had a 10-12 year old Volvo 240 when I met her. She never understood my interest in cars, and didn’t like my Contour SE, with the manual, small V6 and stiff suspension. Years later, thanks to Top Gear, she calls me to tell me she saw a blue Maserati GT, old Shelby, Aston Martin (new or old) or now, the new 2014 Range Rover Sport (which she wants).

    Men, if you are going to pay the bills for her car, watch Top Gear alone.

  • avatar
    harshciygar

    ITT: “OMG A GIRL ON THE INTERWEBS”

    Don’t worry gentlemen, this young lady is in the minority (and then some). All the 20-something girls I know have set a ridiculously low bar when it comes to dating, requiring of their new beau simply that he is employed, has ANY car, and does not live at home with his parents.

    If you can meet those three very basic criteria, you’ll at least make it to the first date.

    Sadly, most of these men are either already in long-term relationships, or are otherwise insufferable assholes. Maybe Caroline can afford to be picky, but most women can’t. My single female friends are always bemoaning the lack of decent men, and not once has what they drive factored into the equation.

    That said, at least she’s a Mustang gal.

  • avatar
    ajla

    I don’t mean to make a “my friends and I are above all this” snob post, but do you guys really buy your cars to impress people or to make a fashion statement? Is it a conscious decision?

    I almost always buy a car so impulsively that I never really tangibly think “how does this make me look?”

    And most of my friends couldn’t even name more than 6 brands. I had a guy ask me a few weeks ago if they still made the Intrepid.

    • 0 avatar
      racer-esq.

      I think a lot more people are influenced by fitting into some group (or not fitting into some group) than will admit it.

      Anyone interested in the Genesis Coupe, Mustang, Camaro, FR-S or BRZ should be cross-shopping all of them. If they are not it is because they don’t want to look like a ricer, or white trash, or an old person/cab driver or a lesbian. They are letting “image” limit their options.

      I think that happens a lot.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      Not me.

      I mean, I suppose they’re “making a fashion statement” sometimes – Aesthetics Matter, and that’s Fashion – but it’s always a personal one unrelated to impressing anyone else.

    • 0 avatar
      thelaine

      ajla,

      I swear on my momma: I have lusted after all kinds of cars my whole life and I have never, ever given a thought to whether anyone else, male or female, would be impressed. When I was younger, I wanted speed and now I like to get lost in the mountains but what anyone else might think about it was just never the least bit relevant.

      Mostly I just drove what I could afford. Dodge Colt, Honda Civic, Buick Regal, Dodge Durango, whatever was a good deal, usually from a friend who had taken care of it. I do think guys who pay close attention to this stuff may get laid more, however. Not certain. Never obsessed over it. Plenty of women out there.

  • avatar
    Compaq Deskpro

    What do you think about the guy who doesn’t care what you think?

    • 0 avatar
      Drzhivago138

      A guy who doesn’t care what women think is not the kind of guy looking to date a woman.

    • 0 avatar
      tresmonos

      You tell your kids to avoid dating people who don’t appreciate your paid in full ride, even if it’s a pile of junk.

      The keeper that I’m still wooing met me when I was driving a POS Cavalier and was funneling money into a 80’s Continental. I have logged days of maintenance on her old Chrysler Sebring, helped her pick a prior generation Escape for a new car, currently drive a big new truck (paid off) and couldn’t be happier. Her Sebring showed her the only time I have been angry around her, and it was towards a water pump and leaking gaskets.

      First date she stepped over the rusty kick plate when I opened the door and didn’t care one bit. The day I knew I was dealing with someone truly special was when she told me she couldn’t wait to ride in my Continental that she nicknamed ‘Abe.’ Love struck.

    • 0 avatar
      Compaq Deskpro

      I sound bitter as hell, why did I think this comment was a good idea?

    • 0 avatar
      Caroline Ellis

      Doesn’t bother me. At least he has a mind of his own, just as I do.

      Nothing wrong with a little diversity in opinion(s). It at least sets the bar for interesting conversation and interaction.

  • avatar
    HiFlite999

    I did best when using my 10+ year old Audi or GTI to transport her to the airport and then flying us in my airplane to a nice restaurant.

    But then, I haven’t dated a 20-something for a few months now and that was only in my Volt and RX-8. I’m 60, btw, so may be a bit out of touch, eh?

    Working hard to attract women only results in ending up with someone you don’t like all that much. Hard-drinking, southern blonde, size-queen? No thanks.

  • avatar
    Stuck in DC traffic

    I signed up to comment … More Cameron less Caroline

  • avatar
    Land Ark

    When I was just turning 16 and my Impala was undergoing the final stages of its restoration I was standing in line at lunch at my school and these two older girls were talking and one of them said, “I’d definitely go out with a guy because of his car.” And upon hearing that I got really excited assuming this applied to all girls.
    And while I did get one girl to admit that she wanted to go out with me because of it, I found that girls really didn’t have any sort of awareness of nice cars versus cars that broke down on the first date.

    Looking back on my 20s I’d say similar taste in music has more to do with it than what you drive.

  • avatar
    Oren Weizman

    Came for the luls … was not dissapoint … also … I drive a Corolla ):

  • avatar
    seabrjim

    Does your mother star in a show called “Pitbulls and parolees”?

  • avatar
    GS 455

    Hi Caroline. You seem like a nice girl and maybe we can go on a date? I used to lease a $550 Mercedes and after reading your article boy am I glad I got rid of that car because you don’t like guys that drive Mercedes. Now I drive an 04 Cadillac Deville and It’s a swell car it even has a cassette player! Do you like music? What do you think of the Cadillac Deville? My car is white and I think it’s a real “chick magnet” It has a bench seat in front. Bet you don’t know what that is but I would love to show you. Does that make me a “Bad Boy”

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      Welcome to TTAC Arnold Friend.

      • 0 avatar
        The Heisenberg Cartel

        BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

        If I was sipping my coffee I would have owed the Air Force a new keyboard and monitor. My wife (lit nerd) lol’d too.

        Props on the most obscure and funniest reference of the year.

    • 0 avatar
      Caroline Ellis

      I know my article is a bit of a fluff piece but, give me a little credit, haha. I know what a bench seat is, hell I was probably conceived on one! If it has the cassette player that means it would have to be late 80’s?

      1988 or 1989?

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        They installed cassette players into the Deville well into the mid 2000’s. Caddy didn’t didn’t want to upset their traditional buyers by forcing them to update their Sinatra collection to those newfangled CDs.

      • 0 avatar
        GS 455

        I know you know what a bench seat is. I was just trying to be funny about it(and the other stuff too). I thought it was pretty obvious that your article was meant to be tongue in cheek. Car guys shouldn’t take themselves or their car choices too seriously. But the Cadillac actually did come with a cassette player until 2005.

  • avatar
    69firebird

    I just went right out and bought what I wanted,seeing as how I’m the one who pays for it and drives it.I hope that clears things up.

  • avatar
    George B

    Caroline, I’d be more interested knowing what cars the guys who got lucky drove and appearance ranking vs. car. For example, a hot female friend in her 20s dated a guy with a Buick sedan, but she said he was a “12” on the 10 point scale. Another guy, shorter than her, had a hard time getting out of the friend zone despite driving a BMW 335 convertible. I’m guessing a few guys can make a rusty Chevy Cobalt look good while many others couldn’t get to 3rd date even with a Dinan M5.

    • 0 avatar
      Sigivald

      With any woman you’d want to actually *date* (rather than just get naked a few times), the car shouldn’t be high on the list of what matters.

      (Oh, it *can* matter, because aesthetics and judgment *always* matter, and cars are a subset of that – but it shouldn’t be weighted very heavily.

      I’d bet the 335 guy was a bad personality fit for her [assuming he was not simply a jerk], and Mr. Buick was a stand-up guy who had great chemistry with her, in your example.)

  • avatar
    supablowas

    So far, as a 30something (married) new to me owner of an 07 corvette, three grandmothers have wanted a ride (it was their dream car). I think it’s quite amusing. I’m not sure how I would actually use a car to attract a mate, but if you can then more power to you.

  • avatar
    daviel

    At least she likes Mustangs. Where did I read that the way to really find out about a chick was to take her out to dinner and see how she eats? Women hate for men to watch them eat.

  • avatar
    gessvt

    I enjoyed this. And learned that the ladies want to have carnal relations with me, or at the very least smoke a bowl and talk about stuff.

    Oh wait, I’m 43 and married. Nevermind.

  • avatar
    NoGoYo

    @28-Cars-Later: I was talking to TMA1…affordability is good, but not being a virgin until I’m 30 is even better.

    • 0 avatar
      28-Cars-Later

      Apples and oranges, if you’re looking for P you need to develop some game. One of the biggest players I knew didn’t have a car (repo’d) and actually still lived with his mom and still got play four to five days a week, and this was in 2000. This guy knew how to talk to the ladies and how to romance, manage, and dump them.

      • 0 avatar
        NoGoYo

        Sh*t man, game is way harder to get than a Mercedes.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          But it will pay dividends throughout your life unlike the Mercedes that will be made into Chinese refrigerators before 2025.

          • 0 avatar
            NoGoYo

            Fair ’nuff, just don’t tell me to hit up Abercrombie and Fitch because that store makes me extremely angry in a way I can’t really explain.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Oh hell no, never AF. You have to ask women what they like on guys now because I’ve been wearing the same type of thing since about 2002 and I’m not changing. Ebay is also a nice source of designer clothing for a fraction of the cost, both NOS and used.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Now that I think about it NoGoYo, you could just skip the trendy clothing and go straight for a quality suit(s).

  • avatar
    Boff

    I read this out article purely out of sociological interest, because as a Gen X male I’m too old to care about what a Gen Y female thinks. But I like frank women like Caroline. Like Liz Phair. Like my wife.

  • avatar
    Compaq Deskpro

    More importantly, what do you think about Panthers?

  • avatar
    Hummer

    Well my old H2 still seems to get too much attention, whether good or bad, I could care less.
    I bought all of them after I met my girl, but everyone that goes for a ride in it has to express what it is.
    Maybe I’m compensatin to some, but who cares what others think.
    It’s a good comfy reliable DD.

    Also I seem to get extra looks when it’s covered in mud, conclusion- they like it dirty.

  • avatar
    replica

    I’m always amused when women think they’re some sort of prize.

    • 0 avatar
      AlternateReality

      To be fair, she’s in her 20s. I’d be curious to see a version of this article written by her 10 years from now, with a few more life lessons under her belt.

      As it stands, though, this is a pretty funny bit of writing.

  • avatar
    DrKensington

    I drive a Subaru. Your absolutely right, I DO in-fact have some great weed, and I’m married…so Friend Zone it is!! hahahaha

  • avatar
    otter

    What kind of car you’re driving really doesn’t say much of anything meaningful about you. Not to mention that if you’ve got several, ascribing meaning to each one will give you wildly different results. Drawing conclusions from my three sure wouldn’t get you anywhere. But really, the kind of women that I like do not care what kind of car you drive, and do not draw conclusions from it.

    I do agree, tongue firmly in cheek, with the Honda Accord bit, though. When I inherited a beige, I4/5AT Accord I felt like pleated Dockers, a too-big polo shirt, paunch and country-club membership with golf clubs were required accessories.

    As I began her post I wondered how far down into the comments we’d get before someone made the first comment on her appearance; getting to the bikini pic at the end, I retract my implicit criticism of such comments as inappropriate!

  • avatar
    philadlj

    Wow…that is a lot of comments. Welcome to TTAC, Caroline!

  • avatar
    April

    Article tells me…

    Gen Y hipster girls can be just as shallow as Gen Y hipster guys.

    April <—– Sensible shoe gen-X lady person.

  • avatar
    scottcom36

    Since Bertel left there hasn’t been a TTAC writer that I’ve totally avoided. Now there is.

  • avatar
    VoGo

    Our kids will tell stories like: “When I met my husband, he was rocking the Galaxy S 8, while I had an iPhone 11xl.”

    When cars drive themselves, no one will care about horsepower and rim size.

  • avatar
    Kenmore

    God, she’s scrawny. I never cared about scrawny.

    I’ve always found a high degree of correlation between scrawny and dippy. Maybe it was a childhood nutrition thing.

  • avatar
    RazorTM

    The cars I drive show a little bit of my character. That will attract the kind of girls that I will be interested in. If you’re a girl who doesn’t like what I drive, then you can avoid me and all will be well.

    2013 VW Passat TDI SEL & 2011 Kawasaki Ninja 1000

  • avatar
    kmoney

    Some of these are bang on, some seem like a bit of a stretch. In my own dealings, most non-car people seem to 100% tow the marketing line and think whatever the company say says about the car is exactly what it. Or they are sucked in by the superficial trinkets makers love.

    This used to happen to me in grad school. I drove a spotless,but ancient, LS400. Upon seeing it for the first time, pretty much every girl I drove in that car would make some comment along the line of “oh, you drive a lexus.” I’d always call them out on it and ask them if they realized it was probably a $3000 car and from a “baller” perspective in like the 3rd or 4th percentile of vehicles. The reply was always “it’s a Lexus,” “it’s so high tech” or “it’s soft.” Tripped me out, cause it wasn’t a case of intellegence or SES, just seemed that people who know nothing about cars really were just clueless.

  • avatar
    old fart

    Wow, what happened to gals? Glad I’m not in my twenties and facing that.

    • 0 avatar
      Elena

      I second that. If I were 20 now surrounded by males like her… guess would have to date exclusively guys 20 years older than me (just as I did back in my day). Young and dumb most of the times go together.

  • avatar
    Synchromesh

    Some controversial stuff here. You can tell that a guy has a cheap BMW or Porsche but you can’t tell Lamborghini/Ferrari apart? Seriously? Also, what the hell is he supposed to drive? Sensible cars are out, economy cars are out, enthusiast cars are out, exotics are out. Even pickups are out. What’s left?

    But this is reason #523 why I don’t date American women. They tend to be shallow and needy for no apparent reason. If a girl only cares about my ride instead of my personality then it’s the wrong girl for me. And no, I don’t drive a beater. I drive a newish WRX and most women don’t like it. And that’s perfectly fine by me.

  • avatar
    E46M3_333

    .
    Here’s a revelation: what you look like matters to men. You appear to have an unattractively high hair line, bad skin and a small chest.

    You’d love my cars, but I won’t be calling.
    .
    .

    • 0 avatar
      Bark M.

      E46 M3? Doubtful. Most young women like cars from this decade.

    • 0 avatar
      3Deuce27

      Reg; “but I wont be calling” As if you had a chance.

      She can thank the stars that she was spared and exceedingly dismal experience.

      Now go away, you pompous ass. Or, partially redeem yourself by apologizing and politely requesting a deletion of your comment. Maybe then I will release you from the virtual headlock I have you in while punching your nose flat.

      Sorry, Jack, sometimes I just can’t help myself.

      • 0 avatar
        Domestic Hearse

        I agree, Deuce.

        Call her out on the piece. Tell her you disagree with her archetypes or dislike her writing style if you’re unhappy.

        But calling her out looks? Being sexist and insulting? Cheap shot, unnecessary, uncalled for. Boorish and immature and a sad reflection on the commentariate, E46M3.

        Makes me wish for the return of the Farago ban hammer.

    • 0 avatar
      SCE to AUX

      @E46: I think we have opposite tastes, but you have more style.

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    Well, I wasn’t disappointed.

    Surprisingly I expected more marriage proposals, not the amount of hostility and disapproval I’ve read.

    I forget this site is more mature than any others. I’m used to “OMFG VAGINA POST DIGITS PLZ”

  • avatar
    Grumpy

    Caroline

    You think: That you are hot enough to introduce yourself to us in a bikini.

    We think: You need to eat something.

    You think: That you know something about cars that we need/want to know.

    We think: No. Please go away.

    • 0 avatar
      April

      Yes. For someone that wants to be taken seriously why would they need to include a pic of their behind and a bikini pic?

      • 0 avatar
        redav

        Oddly enough, it actually seems to work often enough to be a legitimate tactic, perhaps for the same reason as ‘any publicity is good publicity.’

        We see the birth of celebrity through sex tapes. We see business women who push their sexuality (through dress, attitude) get promoted. None of it makes intuitive sense, but it happens.

      • 0 avatar
        Jack Baruth

        It’s more a photo of her TTAC shirt than her bottom, but whatevs.

  • avatar
    nickoo

    If you want to judge what I drive without me laughing in your face and telling you to f*ck off, then you had better be sucking my c*ck while I’m driving it. Looks like you’re in my town too, so come on down to 28th street in the barrio and we’ll meet up to see if you’re worthy to take a ride.

  • avatar
    thelaine

    Obvious home run Caroline. Way to go. Welcome to TTAC.

    • 0 avatar
      April

      Home run? I was thinking gutter ball.

      • 0 avatar
        thelaine

        451 comments and counting. Try it sometime and see how you do.

        • 0 avatar
          April

          No thank you. I rather do something constructive like learning to ride a motorcycle or practicing the 1972 Harmony Rebel electric guitar (Avocado Green finish) I inherited from my Uncle.

          Besides, putting out provocative content just to run up page views/comments just strikes me as so much ego masturbation. *yawn*

          (There were quite a few comments with the Subaru Outback wagon review but we know how that turned out.)

          • 0 avatar
            thelaine

            (There were quite a few comments with the Subaru Outback wagon review but we know how that turned out.)

            You loved that article. That was the highlight of your TTAC experience, as it was for some others. You can’t stop talking about it. You can’t wait until someone does it again.

  • avatar
    ClayT

    Warmed over stand-up routine leftover from some 1980’s airport lounge.
    The clichs were amusing… the first hundred times they wafted through the cigarette smoke and fell upon gin soaked ears.
    A little less Comedy Central, and a little more seat time, then come back and write us a story.

  • avatar
    DC Bruce

    I have to congratulate you and TTAC’s acting EIC on an absolutely brilliant package! Seriously. It’s a combination of mundane, off-the-shelf ingredients (a shopworn topic combined with a few cheesy selfies, posted on a website with an overwhelmingly male-frequented website, a substantial minority of whom are old enough to be the author’s father) that made a combustible stew of self-revelatory comments . . . and in record numbers.

    Imagine, people posting with a straight face: “What do you think of my ZIPXXX? Are you gonna go for it?”

    Then, there’s the ad hominem stuff, in some cases not even thinly concealed.

    And the old farts bragging about how they’ve dutifully supported their family for XX years while wearing sensible shoes and driving Toyta Siennas and Honda Odysseys. As if!

    Even a guy who says he registered . . . just so he could comment on your little piece! Outstanding! A new member of TB&B!

    Like a bird dog flushing a covey of quail, you’ve succeeded in flushing out a large band of TB&B out from behind their monikers and forced them to reveal more of themselves than they probably wish they had.

    I eagerly await the second act . . . !

  • avatar
    J Jesperson

    This article had me laughing out loud! Great job. I hope that the author can weather the negative personal comments here, and come up with a future submission that generates as much colorful discussion.

  • avatar

    Nice trollbaiting, but you have to play to your audience. We really wanted your opinion on:

    -E30 3-series
    -Cherokee
    -Miata
    -French cars never sold here
    -Crown Vic
    -W-body Impala
    -Dodge Grand Caravan
    -Lincoln MKZ

  • avatar
    iNeon

    Your opinions are cute, Honey. What’s your Daddy drive?

    P.S. Close your legs.

  • avatar
    NoGoYo

    @28-Cars-Later: A suit, eh? I’m a short fat obviously Italian-blooded little guy, a suit makes me look like a mafia thug.

    Think girls dig guys who look like REAL gangsters and not young African-American hip hop stars who call themselves gangsters?

  • avatar
    kvndoom

    Honestly from what I’ve seen in my adult years, a motorcycle will get a guy laid faster than any car out there. You gotta be around the right people with the right bike. Women just love to ride.

    I don’t have or desire a motorcycle, but the players I know with bikes are pretty dang successful.

  • avatar
    arun

    I have to ask: what does it tell about me that I bought a brand new vw cc in 2011. It was the only car I test drove and I lovedit. Havent regretted the purchase one bit in35000 miles of ownership

  • avatar
    Beerboy12

    Hmmm… my choice in car was no mentioned so I still don’t know.

  • avatar
    kkt

    This golddigger is 25? Excuse me while I tell my lawyer to raise the distribution age for my trust, if I kick off early.

  • avatar
    JD321

    Stoking the envy and resentments of the Bums & Brats?
    What would Caroline think of a man driving a Range Rover Sport?

    Primitive biological urges at work here:

    youtube dot com/watch?v=0MejkH61o_U

  • avatar
    3Deuce27

    First thought.. Nicely presented pair of jeans

    Article? Provoking, daring, gutsy, and, really?, but sexist. Tongue in cheek intended or not. But, then, the mien of it couldn’t have been wrought without negative aspersions to a sex.

    Comments; To personally revealing for some. And they should ask for immediate deletion or retraction of their immature, sexist comments. And we thought the dinosaurs died out.

    JB… Brilliant. The sexist arse’s and the judgmental are unmasked. You ‘all’ have a right to your opinion, but, be known by it too.

    And, if she starts to contribute good stuff, I might not totally abandon this disappointing waste of time. Don’t get me wrong, the content of TTAC is particularly good, the commentors are a mixed bag negatively weighted, with only a very few who are of the ‘B&B’ class and really know anything or have done anything, lived it, and contribute substantial, unprejudiced comments. The rest are a bunch of knuckle dragging sand box bullies and their comments to this article, once again, prove it..

  • avatar
    Tova

    I must not be a woman under 30, because I disagreed with nearly all of this piece. It seemed vapid to me.

    Additionally, I found it strange that the author chose to post a photo of herself in a bikini at the end of the very article in which she decried the apparent treatment of women as sex objects within car culture.

    Much thanks to those of you who’ve appreciated my writing.

    • 0 avatar
      3Deuce27

      Tova, regarding the posting of the photos.

      I see JB’s hand in this. Most women I know are super critical of any photos of themselves, which would preclude posting them to the net. She might be the exception, but I still suspect the devil’s advocate in most of this article, including the pixs.

    • 0 avatar
      05lgt

      Tova, the article is vapid but Caroline may not be. This is right out of JB’s play book from the BS era. Pure troll bait. Now that JB is EIC he can’t really wobble as far; it looks like he brought in a willing stooge. I really enjoyed what I read of yours and look forward to more. I’ll