By on August 7, 2013

2013-03-05_Geneva_Motor_Show_7862

The very first Generation Why column began after GM unveiled two concept cars aimed at millennial buyers, with the subsequent 18 months spent debunking numerous articles claiming that young people have abandoned the automobile in favor of electronic gadgets.

This author has long maintained that such talk was, in its most extreme form, the wishful thinking of people with a not-so-hidden desire to see cars disappear from the urban landscape.  At its most benign, it’s simply foolish. Finally, the rest of the world appears to be catching on to the notion that when it comes to falling rates of car ownership, “it’s the economy, stupid.” General Motors just happens to be one of the first to say it publicly.


Speaking at the Center for Automotive Research’s Management Briefing in Traverse City, Michigan, GM’s Chief Economist Mustafa Mohatarem said

“I don’t see any evidence that the young people are losing interest in cars,” says Mustafa Mohatarem, GM’s longtime chief economist. “It’s really the economics doing what we’re seeing, and not a change in preferences.”

A lot of the talk surrounding the abandonment of cars driven by environmental concerns, a trend towards urbanization and increasing prioritization of technology over mobility seems to be derived from wishful thinking on the part of those who would like to see cars disappear from the road. This may sound like utter crackpot tinfoil-hat talk, but living on the leading edge of “radical” discourse (downtown Toronto, Canada, which prioritized banning plastic shopping bags over reigning in out of control spending, for example) has exposed a growing fringe that sees cars as Public Enemy Number 1. Some of it is environmentally rooted, while others take a more Marxist approach, viewing cars as an individualist, hierarchical form of transportation that is in opposition to collectivist, equitable solutions like public transportation, bicycles (or bike sharing) or good old-fashioned walking. All of these options are great for the small college towns or older metropolises where these people tend to congregate. But for the other 98 percent of the country, they are unfeasible to put it mildly.

These forces have seized on the current situation young people face – burdensome student loans, stagnant wages, increased cost of living, high gas prices and insurance premiums – to advance the “cars are dying” agenda. But I know this is false, and I always have. The overriding conviction that young people’s enthusiasm for cars has been the driving force behind the Generation Why columns. I know this because I see the reactions of my peeps when they ask me to identify the classic car parked on the street, or when they demand a ride in the press car I brought over to someone’s house – whether it’s a matte gray Veloster Turbo or a Grabber Blue Shelby GT500. Young people today view car ownership as similar to home ownership; something not currently attainable, but as a goal for a future time period where one’s financial stability is more assured.

Young people are not a monolithic group either. On one end of the spectrum you have people who might want a car simply to get groceries and get them to work. On the other hand, you have the typical broke enthusiast that we all mock as wanting a world-beating sports car but barely having the funds for a used Miata. But there is one constant among the two disparate groups; both will get their own set of wheels when they can afford them. Right now, it may not be an option. But debts decrease, insurance premiums get lower with age and people earn more over time. And when circumstances are appropriate they will buy cars. Whether it’s a new Corolla or something that costs as much as a used Corolla in upkeep.

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146 Comments on “Generation Why: Finally, Someone Gets It. That Someone Is General Motors...”


  • avatar
    99GT4.6

    Im 19. Most of my good friends have licences and want cars but as the article says don’t have the money right now. I bought my Mustang by saving for years from a part time job on weekends. I love driving it and having a car helps me avoid Ottawa’s terrible bus service. (1 hour bussing to work vs a 15 min drive.) I certainly know a few whackos who don’t ever want to drive but most people my age don’t have the money but do want a car.

    • 0 avatar
      juicy sushi

      I find Ottawa’s bus service is great, so long as you live in the intended lifestyle. The entire bus system is prefaced on the idea that everyone wants to go downtown to work in the morning and out to the suburbs in the evening. So long as you are going in those directions of travel it works great. In any other direction it is a dead loss, but that’s no different from most other aspects of life in Ottawa.

      • 0 avatar
        DC Bruce

        Unfortunately, what you describe is true of most mass transit systems that I am aware of in the “southern part of North America” as well. They work very well radially, not so well circumferentially.

        • 0 avatar
          Sam P

          Yes. For suburb to suburb travel, a car is key. Many people in greater Seattle commute from one suburb to another suburb (Bothell to Redmond or Kirkland to Issaquah). Mass transit between those places involves nearly a 2 hour journey and multiple transfers. In a car, even at rush hour? 30-45 minutes maximum.

      • 0 avatar
        Easton

        I remember going to the University of Ottawa. The first 5 years without a car. I agree, great bus system but terrible, terrible, terrible public transit system. Has to be the biggest city in North America still in desperate need of a subway/light rail system (especially when standing at a bus stop in January).

        • 0 avatar

          Ottawa is apparently built on bedrock so no underground rail.

          • 0 avatar
            juicy sushi

            Or it could be all the secret underground tunnels and palaces we civil servants have constructed at the behest of various evil Prime Ministers…

            But yeah, a car is necessary to function in daily life outside the Glebe in Ottawa. A good thing for me since I love driving, but extremely poor thinking on the part of the municipal government.

    • 0 avatar
      Sgt Beavis

      Keep it up kid. I hope my son has a work ethic like yours when he gets older..

  • avatar
    PrincipalDan

    GM Gets It…

    I never thought I’d see any variation on that theme in a TTAC article.

    Now will you guys stop accusing them of GM bashing?

    Or maybe I’m the last remaining reader that still thinks this website calls everyone on their BS.

  • avatar
    Summicron

    Great article, completely agree with the argument, but what’s the relevance of that little clown car in the photo?

    Isn’t it more like proof that Daewoo has gotten it for years and GM is reduced to outsourcing?

    • 0 avatar

      Nah, when Daewoo was left to their own devises they made worse than average 90s Hyundais. GM does know a thing or two about making car ya know? The latest Chevies from Korea show this amply. I, for one, was never a GM fan. No matter that their stuff in Brazil came from Opel, for me, their styling was always anodyne, handling oh so-so, interiors unimaginative and finishing mean. Now with the latest Chevies, even I, a life-long non-GM guy just have to give them a big, big round of applause.

      I’ll go hide now as my fellow Brazilian Euro snobs agree with you.

    • 0 avatar
      azmtbkr81

      That’s the car GM markets heavily to the young, urban demographic but is mostly purchased by those aged 50 and up.

      Proof that even if millennials could afford new cars GM wouldn’t know what to sell them.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    I enjoyed your analysis DK. The only point I would slightly disagree with is this:

    “But debts decrease, insurance premiums get lower with age and people earn more over time”.

    Given the current malaise, I don’t see people’s debts decreasing and earning more in terms of real income (short of a new currency or significant social upheaval). We’ve already experienced a “lost decade” in the US economically speaking and I think we’re heading for a “lost generation”. From the standpoint of automobiles, I think it will literally take some sort of new cheap and ubiquitous technology in order for a “car boom” to happen for Gen Y.

    EDIT: I would also clarify this as “new car” ownership. I know no one on either end of the economic scale who doesn’t view car ownership as a necessity.

    “Young people today view car ownership as similar to home ownership; something not currently attainable, but as a goal for a future time period”

    • 0 avatar
      Summicron

      You’re too civil to do this, but allow me to compress your comment and tell me if I’ve got it right:

      “It’s worse than the author can know because he has the viewpoint and options of a rich kid.”

      Or am I merely projecting my surly views onto you?

      • 0 avatar

        I would disagree about the last part. I am not in a position to buy a CTS-V Wagon and write about my weeks long road trip. I’m lucky to have landed a good paying job and no student debt, thanks to going to school in my home town. Something I’m glad to have done in hindsight given the utter worthlessness of a Bachelor’s of Journalism.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Not at all, Summicron I’m sorry if it came across as such.

        You could make the argument about me since I grew up well (till my parents stupidly blew threw all the capital) and attended snooty private schools for 12 years and then private college. One of the only things my father taught me was to keep was to always keep myself grounded.

        I keep up with both the mainstream and alternative media, and pay close attention to comments from people all walks of life make to me or within earshot. If you analyze all of the information you take in, one can observe a bleak picture for everyone outside of the 90%+ income earning class led by a decade of commodities prices and quickly followed by unrealistic real estate prices/renting prices, finally reared up with long term debts which cannot be repaid.

        This article is very telling as it gives a glimpse into the mind of a major player in the Fed banking cartel:

        “In fact, his [Greenspan’s] current view is that stocks are still “significantly undervalued.” ”

        They really believe the stock market is reflective of the real economy irregardless if the stocks are fueled by massive inflation to the tune of $85 billion/month. These people are truly space cadets if they believe this, and through this thinking are setting the stage for massive economic and social upheaval from the plebs (intentionally?).

        http://money.cnn.com/2013/03/15/investing/greenspan-irrational-exuberance/index.html

        • 0 avatar
          Summicron

          You’ve got nothing to be sorry about :-)

          I was doing the reading-in.

          Mine is the attitude of dismissive contempt!
          Optimistic young authors always trigger it.
          Grrr..rowf rowf

        • 0 avatar
          bunkie

          A couple of years back, it was pretty common to hear that the debt-to-income ratio of Americans was falling meaning that debts were being repaid. I haven’t heard the latest figures, but I suspect that it’s still shrinking.

          Sooner or later, the cycle will repeat and people will start feeling more flush. It’s my belief that that’s really how recessions really end, everybody just gets sick of it and decides to have a little more fun.

    • 0 avatar

      I am not going to discount that scenario, but I would rather be optimistic (at the very real risk of being wrong). I find people who predict mass catastrophes and economic ruin (a distinct entity from your well founded conclusions) are often alienated from society and so unhappy with their current situation that they want to see everything ruined in the hopes of a “fresh start”. Why do you think my generation is so enamored with the Zombie Apocolypse? It gives the chance for a fresh start while also allowing them the potential to be an action hero in their own fantasy world.

      Who knows. Maybe my generation will be driving Datsun Go’s and the like? Somehow, with our outsized expectations for homes, cars etc (Obama got that one right last week) I doubt it.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        One of the caveats of being forthright with your opinions and possessing relatively good critical thinking skills is you tend to arrive at less than positive conclusions. Over your schooling, you tend to develop a misanthropic view of the world. Then as you age, you can either stay in this mindset through life or embrace a different approach, the optimistic one. I admire you for this Derek as I have tried to do so as well in the past about four years with some success. With regard to the economic condition, this is my view but I’m also open to a happier ending than Dr. Strangelove or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb (its correct title). Let’s hope for the best but plan for the worst.

        You raise an interesting point on Gen X/Y’s fascination with an apocalypse, its much a contrast to the previous films in the disaster/apocalypse genre which were generally either low budget serious (Night of the Living Dead/Dawn of the Dead, Last Man on Earth), low budget cheesy (The Return of the Living Dead) or sensationalist (Earthquake, Airport, The Omega Man). I never picked up on the trend (I thought it was just me!). But if you look at the genre post 1999, you have a number of realistic zombie or disaster films including my favorite, 28 Days Later. Here’s a theory, is it because regardless of generation people like to buy in to the “hero in their own fantasy world” meme and “zombies” have taken the place of the nuclear war type films which were so prevalent decades earlier?

        I think the type of cars this generation drives will be indicative of the resources available when they are built. If peak oil is real, they will probably be electric. If another oil glut occurs, SUVs and the like may come back with a vengeance. Maybe someone will finally build Mr. Fusion and we’ll be flying someday in our lives. :)

        • 0 avatar

          I agree 28 when you talk about the schooling. It does lead you to be pessimistic (as I once was). Then you grow a little, live a little, find some other (serious) authors who are just not as pessimistic, and you even gain an intellectual foothold to be slightly optimistic. Never forget, the world has never safer, healthier, richer and maybe even cleaner than the last couple of decades. Imagine living in the Middle Ages. Industrial Britain. As a Cro Magnon. That helps puts things in perspective I think.

          Also, remember, as you Americans so rightly say, “follow the money”. Pessimism always sells. Nostradamus, Malthus, Machaivelli, Hobbs. We all still talk about them…

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            I agree the world has improved in some areas in the past few decades, something for us all to bear in mind.

            Follow the money indeed…

      • 0 avatar

        +1000 Derek! Plus, specially economists or politicians who are always shouting that the sky is falling reap undue rewards when it eventually does (as it always does). Nevermind that they helped it along, but people don’t see it that way. Lesson learned from Dad BTW.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        The bleak predictions of gloom and doom are correct, they always have been, but there’s the qualifier at the end of each dismal prediction that must be assumed because it’s never written. When Summicron and I grew-up we lived under the worst of all gloom and doom scenarios and that was the very real possibility, if not certainty, of a nuclear holocaust. They even taught us in school what to do when “the bomb” went off, they thought the desks we would hide under would protect us from the radiation fallout… It didn’t happen because things changed. All these awful predictions will come true if everything stays the same, but it never does. So, the “irrational exuberance” becomes the “significantly undervalued.” because things didn’t stay the same. Cars are a perfect example, what they thought the cars of the future would be is laughable because no one saw everything that would happen to make them laughable. Just like we can’t see all the stuff good and bad that’s going to make our predictions look ridiculous… because nothing will stay the same to make them come true

        • 0 avatar
          Summicron

          Excellent post, Lie2me.

          Even a misanthrope like me has to credit the supreme rationality and humanity shown by American and Soviet military watch commanders for avoiding Armageddon in the several instances when all the lights and sirens cut loose. Damn close shave. We survived by humans overriding faulty warning systems.

          Then there was that little thang called The Nam. That kinda had the attention of every American lad nearing draft age. But things changed and we escaped it.

          So, yeah, pick your slogan:

          It’s always darkest before the dawn.
          or
          In moment of victory, tighten helmet strap.

          I’ve always lived by Bismarck’s “Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it first seems.”

          • 0 avatar
            Lie2me

            I like the Bismark quote. I’ve always had one that runs in the back of my mind…

            “the worst things in life are the ones we never saw coming… so are the best”

          • 0 avatar
            Summicron

            My tiny, wonderful Godsent 2nd wife is my Exhibit A for that.

            I guess heart surgery at 53 would be Exhibit B.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            The great questions of the day will not be settled by means of speeches and majority decisions but by iron and blood.

            Otto von Bismarck

        • 0 avatar

          +1. I remember doing those drills of hiding under the desk. Pathetic!

          It’s like that I told you so guy. The kid tries to do the triple back summersault on his bike. There’s always some one there trying to stop him. If the kid falls flat on his back and goes to the hospital, all involved will just remember the sage that warned them all. If the kid makes it, no one will think any worse of the doomsayer.

          It’s just human nature.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          I went through the same drills sometime in 1989/90, but either it was my young age or the spirit of the times as we were not afraid. I imagine you folks actually were given the context of your youth.

          • 0 avatar

            I went through those drills around 80-82. 10 yrs old or something. Boy were we scared! The end of the world was a real possibility and it could happen at anytime. There was a TV movie, The Day After, it seemed like the whole world stopped to watch that one.

            On the other hand, the existence of that situation led the more inquisitive kids to get a real handle on, and thirst for knowledge on world political situation. In that way, I guess it opened a lot of kids eyes to the outside world. I remember moving back from the US to Brazil at the time. The kids in Brazil seemed so happy-go-lucky and unworried. Nobody ever did that kind of drill here!

    • 0 avatar
      Aleister Crowley

      Perhaps our lost generation is akin to Mao’s cultural revolution. Instead of being eliminated, our lost generation is mired in debt.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Perhaps, but debt is merely meaningless paper just as fiat currency. Given the right geopolitical events, it may not matter at all. Those Chinese people lost their lives.

  • avatar
    NoGoYo

    I’ve owned two cars so far, neither one more than 1500 dollars.

    But damn would I like something that responds well to my enthusiastic driving style…

    • 0 avatar
      Lorenzo

      When I started driving, there were plenty of used cars that could respond to an enthusiastic driving style, as long as it was in a straight line. The first time I had to suddenly call on the drum brakes, my enthusiasm was dampened considerably. After that, it was all about finding joy in life’s little victories, like getting ahead of the old lady in the Rambler American, or beating the turnip truck to the on ramp. I’ll bet you can wring some joie de vivre out of whatever you’re driving if you try.

      • 0 avatar
        NoGoYo

        Well my N-body Buick handles all right, but it could certainly use a bit more power and a fresh set of wheels…14s with high-profile tires are not exciting.

  • avatar
    Silvy_nonsense

    “All of these options are great for the small college towns or older metropolises where these people tend to congregate. But for the other 98 percent of the country, they are unfeasible to put it mildly.”

    80.7% of the U.S. population lives in densely developed residential areas (that’s census bureau talk for “urban” areas). Your figures are extremely out of line with reality.

    • 0 avatar

      It was hyperbole, but on a serious note, how many of those areas are suitable for walking, cycling or public transit? I’d assume that a good portion of them have rather underdeveloped public transit systems and residents are heavily dependent on the automobile for transportation.

      • 0 avatar
        Chicago Dude

        A lot of those areas would be more suitable to walking, cycling and perhaps even public transit if the people that were trying to make improvements weren’t labeled Marxists who hate our freedoms.

        You know what sucks? Driving because you have to. It’s not freedom if you have no other choice.

        You know what is great? Going somewhere because you want to and having the freedom to choose how you get there. You know what’s even better? When I buy a car I am not a slave to practicality. I can pick something awesome because it’s not my sole form of transportation that must meet all of my needs.

        PS – Derek, if “those people” were so insistent on “collectivist, equitable solutions”, why are bike lanes typically installed in wealthier locations rather than poorer locations despite the fact that a higher percentage of car vs. pedestrian/cyclist accidents/injuries/deaths occur in poorer neighborhoods? How equitable is that? Perhaps they are just as self-interested as you are, but are also able to comprehend that roads do not scale to infinity and neither does inexpensive access to hydrocarbons.

        Seriously, if you like driving, you should be in favor of keeping roads drivable. Bike lanes, zoning that encourages mixed uses, public transit is all so much cheaper than the cost of properly keeping up with a growing population that is also highly mobile through road construction only.

        • 0 avatar
          99GT4.6

          I hate it though when they will ruin a road by reducing it from four lanes to two by adding bike lanes and then take out bus bays. This means traffic gets backed up every time a bus stops. It has happened in several places where I live and it pissed me off every time.

        • 0 avatar

          They deserve all the labeling they get.

          • 0 avatar
            brenschluss

            You guys need to take a field trip to a city planning office to meet these people you’re calling names.

            Turns out most of them have no grand illusions of forcing people into anything, the just understand the reality that multiple objects can’t share a space. Difficult decisions must be made to fit everything into a city, and they can’t please everyone.

        • 0 avatar
          azmtbkr81

          Political points aside biking to work is just plain fun. Having moved from a more progressive city to one that puts cycling half a step above dumpster diving on the desperation scale has had impact on my quality of life.

          I don’t see the downside to investing in inexpensive bike routes and related facilities but for some reason apathy and occasionally resistance is insurmountable.

          • 0 avatar
            joeaverage

            I love to bike to work – except that I live in a small town where there is no sidewalk, no shoulder, and I have to share pavement with the motorized traffic. It’s flat out dangerous so I seldom ride to work.

            Looking around town we could all lose some weight riding to work occasionally – myself included.

            Its a joy to live in this small town where the distances to everything are small – and that would make a bicycle reasonable transport except for the part where one risks death to ride into town.

    • 0 avatar
      carlisimo

      Those “urban” areas include “suburban”, in which you absolutely need a car.

      I’m sure more than 2% of Americans live in real, honest-to-God cities in which you might not need one, but it’s not going to be a huge percentage, either. On the other hand, young people are probably disproportionately urban, especially now that we’re all having kids later. Living downtown until you’re 30 is the cool thing to do now (and it’s also good for your career).

    • 0 avatar
      Chris FOM

      Come check out any given city in Texas. Very urban, very dense, completely and totally unsuitable for public transportation in their current developmental state.

  • avatar
    Volt 230

    I don’t see the economy improving at all, more and more jobs are being sent abroad and despite the “bring jobs back to America” mentality, it is not happening, Young graduates are finding they can’t find work. Even in the auto parts business, Made in China is being accepted as a fact of life, my technician won’t even bother with rebuilt wear items any longer due to crappy rebuilt parts that were being supplied

  • avatar
    Nick 2012

    Derek – I agree with your analysis 100%. Most people in my cohort like cars and the freedom they provide, but have crippling student loan debts to pay off. A physician friend drives a handed down fleet-grade Malibu until he satisfies Sallie Mae and has grand automotive plans. Until he’s squared away, he’s delaying replacing something that is functional and reasonably reliable. He’s a big car guy and has a family history involving a racing team, but he’s just not interested in putting funds in a depreciating asset at this time. Many other friends are in similar enough situations and prioritizing savings over buying a new car or replacing an old soldier.

    Also and completely off topic, I’m heading through Toronto around 8-10 am on my way to Montreal on via the 401. Is traffic in the AM that terrible so that I should adjust my trip or take the 407 ETR?

  • avatar
    Hummer

    I agree with Mustafa…

    (Chuckle)

    But anyways, so many people go to school for ridiculous degrees, and complain about their crippling debt, hint: art school won’t help your future. I had a boss whose nephew went to school for tree science(or similar of)… Had over 100k of debt for a job that probably won’t pay over 50k a year, I mean, do these people honestly expect sympathy?

    No reason for most to go to a four year institution when 2 year trade school/technical diplomas have better paying jobs and cost relatively nothing. A welder working on ships can make in excess of 70k a year, more if with the military, ever call an HVAC technician, notice how busy they stay?
    But no you go for your art degree, make sure you take food preparation electives, McDonald customers will appreciate!

    • 0 avatar
      dwford

      Exactly!! Cry me a river about your student loan debt for the useless degree you partied for. Live at home with mom and whine that you can’t have a car while the guy from shop class you laughed at in high school makes 6 figures.

      • 0 avatar
        NoGoYo

        That’s why I’m getting an auto tech degree.

        Basically guaranteed work anywhere in the country…

        • 0 avatar
          AMC_CJ

          That’s what I did, then got a business degree. Do yourself a favor though and try to get into the commercial side of the business, and with as large of a corporation as you can. Turning wrenches at joe’s corner garage leads to nowhere.

          Decent pay, benefits, and I can work where ever I want too.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      Whether trade school or university, it’s about developing a skill that humanity demands.

      In this part of the country, if a kid graduated with a Bachelor’s Degree in Engineering, he could pretty much walk out of school and into a 60-70k a year job. There aren’t enough people with the skills to fill those jobs. The problem is for many young people, it’s too hard. So they get an English degree. That’s probably worth a $14/hr at a reception desk these days.

    • 0 avatar
      el scotto

      Oh Lord, not this meme again. Whenever college degrees are mentioned the “get an engineering or accounting degree” posse saddles up. I work as an analyst. My job requires critical thinking, reading comprehension, the ability to write, and public speaking. Can my junior analyst do all four things? Usually not; but a liberal arts degree leave them well prepared to learn them.

      • 0 avatar
        doctor olds

        Engineers are significantly higher paid than any other Bachelor’s programs. That’s because engineering programs are difficult to complete and require learning and understanding things that most folks don’t or can’t.

        Sorry, meaning no disrespect, but that is just the reality.

        • 0 avatar
          Summicron

          The Calculus Wall.

          I was running with the Science/Engineering pack until I hit that. Then I was just another clod.

          Plus, puberty should be mandated to not begin until you’ve finished your education.

          • 0 avatar

            ‘Plus, puberty should be mandated to not begin until you’ve finished your education”

            LMAO! So true. If that hadn’t hit me the way it did I might have become an astro-physicist, or a paleontologist/anthropologist, or a world famous expert on Roman history or something.

            As is, I’m just an unemployed guy looking for a new career.

            C’est la vie, mon ami, c’est la vie!

          • 0 avatar
            Summicron

            @Marcello

            All I’ve ever wanted was to be a Vulcan.

            Every 7 years, go somewhere and get yer ya-yas out. Then smooth sailing for another 7.

            A fella could really make some career progress like that.

          • 0 avatar

            As I’m not a trekkie, I don’t exactly get that, but I think I get the gist of it :)!

            Sounds like a way to do it.

        • 0 avatar
          el scotto

          doctor olds, none taken and I agree engineers are well paid straight out of college. There are too many on here who somehow think that anything but an engineering degree is a waste of time. That’s what gets my hackles up. Geography BS and an MBA. Hint taking those remote sensing classes can pay pretty well. Night school MBA for self-preservation.

      • 0 avatar
        Summicron

        Number two son was just bragging to Mom that he’s already cleared 140K this year. BA in Philosophy, self-taught coding expertise and immersion in the world of gaming and miniatures.

        When he was a kid he outworked everyone at McDonlds. He outworks his peers today, but now he mostly does it from home.

        • 0 avatar
          Lie2me

          My youngest barely made it through HS, but had this “thing” going on with the computer. By the time he was 20 he was making more then me and is now a firewalls expert. Didn’t learn to drive until he was 22 and only because Symantec required it to call on clients. Worst driver you’ll ever meet… Where did I go wrong, lol

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          “When he was a kid he outworked everyone at McDonlds. He outworks his peers today, but now he mostly does it from home.”

          Truth be told, this is how it’s done. A degree is only a tool to use along the way. Lazy engineers don’t make it far either.

      • 0 avatar
        danio3834

        3/4 of these things, a High School graduate should be expected to be able to do. Yeah, I know, the reality is something different. It’s a testament to how bad our education system has become when employers want to see a 4 year college degree just to get some guarantee a person can read, write and think.

    • 0 avatar
      mkirk

      I was shocked when I taught at the amount of debt some teachers had taken out to obtain employment in a 24k a year job. I did mine in the Military so I was lucky but had I been paying there is no way I would have borrowed 1 red cent for an Education degree.

      • 0 avatar
        afflo

        Whoa… where do teachers make 24K/year? Starting pay here is $48K for a teacher with a Bachelors and certification, and no experience. And this is a low Cost-of-living city in Texas.

        • 0 avatar
          bball40dtw

          $48K a year to start is high. The NEA says the average starting salary for a teacher is about $35K, with Texas starting at just under that. Only a few states start around $30K.

          I do doubt teachers starting at $24K in any public school. Maybe at a Catholic School somewhere, but it still seems really low.

  • avatar
    carlisimo

    I think a few purported trends are true – there ARE young people who want to live a car-less life, and I think there are fewer driving enthusiasts in this era of greater traffic and harsher enforcement. But the former group is still small, and they tend to live in places where driving is a miserable experience anyway.

  • avatar
    DaveDFW

    “I don’t see any evidence that the young people are losing interest in cars…”

    Is this GM spokesman deliberately ignoring all the studies which show the percentage of younger folks who have driver’s licenses has been steadily decreasing for at least 30 years?

    While these studies don’t tell us the reason for the decline–it could be economic (can’t afford a car) or lifestyle (don’t want a car). But if, on average, younger folks aren’t getting driver’s licenses, why would they buy an automobile?

    A declining percentage of licensed drivers will not result in increased sales.

    • 0 avatar
      danio3834

      It’s the other way around. If they have nothing to drive because they can’t afford it, why would they need a license?

      • 0 avatar
        DaveDFW

        But the data doesn’t necessarily support that argument. The data only shows that the percentages have been declining for 30 years, with an accelerated drop since the last recession.

        So the general trend is fewer licenses, with a portion of the drop since 2008 probably attributable to economic conditions.

        In other words, removing the accelerated drop since the last recession does not change the general trend line–the trend is fewer young people having driver’s licenses, which will probably manifest in fewer auto sales in the future.

        • 0 avatar
          danio3834

          One might still correlate the steady decline in licensing over the long term to lower economic prospects of young people. Kids have been gradually staying in school longer and taking longer to enter the workforce over the past 30 years. Thus gradually reducing the affordability of cars for young people in line with the trend of less licensed young people.

          Similarly, why would someone get a passport if they couldn’t afford to travel?

  • avatar
    dwford

    And here I thought this was going to be about the Apple EyesFree system in the Spark.

  • avatar
    danio3834

    I mostly agree with your assessment DK. While young people today rely less on cars as a form of social interaction, the average teenager would still love a really sweet ride and the freedom it provides. The problem is, it’s hard to justify when they have nowhere meaningful to go and no means to support it.

  • avatar
    redliner

    There are other concerns that affect not only if a young person will buy a car, but what car they will buy.

    I use myself as an example. I am in my early 20s and want (and can afford) to buy a lightly used Dodge Challenger. However, I live in suburbia and commute into DC several times a week for work, insurance on something like that will be astronomical, and gas is only going to get more expensive. So what am I looking at? … Prius, Volt, MKZ hybrid… nothing exiting, and not really what I want.

    My point is, there is more to it than a cut and dry, “do I buy a car or not” argument. It also affects what car young people end up with.

  • avatar
    Onus

    I’m 20. I drive and honestly i hate it right now. I was inline to get a job close to home and i would have taken the bus. It would have also given me time to do some much needed repairs on my vehicle, and if it took two weeks while i did it myself than so be it.

    But, instead i have a job that is 30 miles one way from home, and i make a ton more than my last job and get more hours but, i spend a ton in gas. Its a great job though it is easier than my last one i’m not complaining too much.

    In comparison my last job was right down the street from where i lived so i just walked. ( i got layed off, and was in the process of leaving anyway ).

    I wish a car to me was something i can just screw around with on the weekends or go on trips to places. Sadly its not.

    I’m considering starting a buisness of sorts just so i can have some fun money.

    Savings is a priority right now so i don’t have very much to go around.

  • avatar
    tikki50

    From talking with young buyers a lot of them simply don’t want the maintenance. Strange, they feel that when their phone brakes, they take it to the shop and it’s usually free. A car not so much so reflect on dad yelling in the garage and slamming doors to get the car working. I get that. The other group of kids I’ve talked to were of the mindset that if they do get a car its only to be harassed by the local Police, interesting concepts, flawed maybe, but interesting. I think it all boils down to money in the end, car repairs, insurance, tickets, it’s all money.

  • avatar

    Hey Derek! Great, great article. You have been on a major roll lately. Congrats. I did something for this article I rarely do, I recommended it!

  • avatar
    J.Emerson

    I think that we can take a more nuanced approach to this question by asking instead, “Are young people still interested in mobility?” The answer to that, I feel, would be an overwhelming yes. But as far as car ownership goes, I can’t answer that question. In some areas the tradition remains strong, but in others, I can see it falling by the wayside. The most important takeaway is that transportation policy must maintain flexibility for the needs of diverse areas. Too often, I feel like the discussion of transportation policy proceeds on “one size fits all” lines, with no room for localism. It’s silly to think that car ownership in Iowa is threatened because Seattle builds a light rail system, and vice versa.

  • avatar
    28-Cars-Later

    A little off topic but I’d like to ask a serious question, what is the exact appeal of the Chevy Spark?

    • 0 avatar
      NoGoYo

      That’s a good question, the Sonic makes perfect sense but not the Spark.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        Having been a passenger in a Sonic, I would argue its relatively nice interior could be it’s best selling point. Spark strikes me as a similar and possibly redundant entry with far more fugly.

    • 0 avatar

      I don’t know exactly about the Spark as I’ve never driven one, but good small cars are tossable, maneuverable, and a little more raw, and thus more engaging, than bigger, more isolating cars. Not to mention that running costs tend to be lower (how much is debatable of course) as do replacement parts.

    • 0 avatar
      doctor olds

      Spark is cheaper, has more head room, is cheaper, and is available in an electric that rumor has will be marketed as a superior performer, yes, and it is cheaper. Sonic is a nicer car.

      • 0 avatar
        NoGoYo

        So basically…it’s like the Isuzu I-Mark.

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        If the real goal of this thing was a “cheap” electric car and something changed to prevent it, I’ll give it a pass. In this craZY us car market even your “cheap” model needs to be of a certain level of refinement else your brand become the butt of jokes. In any event this model like a failed Geo, IMO… at least as an electric model its unique.

        • 0 avatar
          28-Cars-Later

          *this model looks like

        • 0 avatar
          doctor olds

          They are helping Chevrolet to 40% growth in small car volume.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            While turning it into 21st century Geo.

            Maybe I’m off base since I’m not a marketeer or a bean counter, but I think it dilutes the brand’s image. Personally I would have just done a Cruze “family” (sedan/coupe/wagon) lineup for all of my “small” cars and not bothered with gas only puddle-jumpers like this at all. Now if I was trying to be a trendsetter and was working on a cheap electric only car, I might want it to stand out a bit such as Volt and then maybe this little clown car could work.

          • 0 avatar
            doctor olds

            How does it dilute Chevy’s image as a value brand?

            I have not driven one, so I can’t judge much except the look and size. To me, it seems to fit well, expanding the lineup to a smaller class.

          • 0 avatar

            Agreed doctor. I can imagine some people thinking it’s a clown car, but I absolutely don’t. Fact is, as I’ve grown older, I’ve come to realize that I like small cars. Fact is, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I don’t know if i’d scoot on over to my local Ford (Fiesta) or Fiat (500) dealer and buy myself one. I have no use for prestige brands (maybe an Alfa or if Cadillac ever makes it to Brazil). Heck if I won the lottery I could buy a Challenger, or a Mustang, or a Fiat Doblò, or a Fusion, or a Renault Duster or a Kangoo. But I would surely have a small car in the garage too. For my personal enjoyment.

            I did not think like this 10 yrs ago. The realization dawned on me slowly. This kind of thinking must be more prevalent in the ROW, but surely there are people like me in America too. Chevy should keep at it and improve their small cars more and more.

            Small cars are not going away any time soon.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            Chevrolet in my view is dogged a bit by its past, a past where even some of the “cheap” Chevrolets still offered decent value (and power) for the money vs the contemporaries. Let’s also not forget this value brand also sells $60K trucks and high dollar performance models, from the branding perspective is it wise for your bargain basement model to wear the same cladding as your high end ones? Its certainly important to have a popular and competent entry in the small car segment, and I think the Cruze does it nicely, seems like the Sonic/Spark in gas form are answers to a question no one asked. Like I said maybe I’m out of touch.

            Marcelo makes also some good points about driving dynamics. I could see this with the Fiat 500 and Minis here in the US but I’d be curious to know the percentage of buyers who buy this or Ford Fiesta were interesting in driving dynamics.

          • 0 avatar
            doctor olds

            A small efficient car for around town seems very appealing to me, though I wouldn’t want it to be my only vehicle. Ease of maneuvering and parking as well as low operating costs are pluses and I don’t care how anyone judges me for my vehicle.

            I have not run the numbers on Spark EV, but think the operating cost advantage for local trips would go a long way to offset monthly payments. Analysis of Volt compared to a Buick Regal base 4 cylinder suggested “fuel” cost savings over $100/ month. Spark should be better yet.

          • 0 avatar

            I’d buy a Fiesta only for the driving dynamics as much better deals can be had elsewhere (Renault Sandero, Fiat Punto, Citroen C3, Peugeot 208 and below those cars Chevy Onix, Fiat Palio/Uno, Nissan March – just to stay in the hatchback category – not to mention others by VW, Hyundai, Toyota that I wouldn’t even think about). Of course, I’m talking about Brazil and as you can see we are are full of choices in the subcompact category.

            I don’t think you’re out of touch 28, but I think the market has indeed changed. It used to be all about power. Nowadays power is still important, but finesse, handling, is just, if not more, important. All balanced with some economy.

            I’m out of touch too. I’d have no use for an electric Spark, though if they toned down those oversize frontlights, the profile of the cars looks quite interesting to my eyes.

          • 0 avatar
            28-Cars-Later

            @DocOlds

            “A small efficient car for around town seems very appealing to me, though I wouldn’t want it to be my only vehicle.”

            I have similar thoughts, and was using my 98 Saturn for just that purpose before I had to switch to my Volvo. For the run around… town car (ha a pun!)… something of this size could be appealing and maybe that’s its intended audience. But if I’m 21 again and can somehow afford to pay a new car note, I won’t walk but run away from this, and maybeeee into a Cruze or Verano (I’d at least consider those).

            @Marcelo

            Motoring in Brazil certainly sounds interesting. Perhaps you are right on the priorities of today’s new car buyer. If I was an economy minded person and was buying new I’d probably give a hard look to some of the hybrid offerings. There’s certainly an additional cost factor there and of course there’s lease vs buy to consider, crunching the numbers might yield something interesting.

            I also agree if I could get some fender with my headlights the overall car would look a heck of a lot better. :)

      • 0 avatar

        This. Spark is just a better design a generation ahead of Sonic. Sonic is how Koreans used to build cars, Spark is what they build now (note that Spark is assembled in U.S.).

        • 0 avatar
          doctor olds

          The Spark is certainly not a better design, though it could be newer and is new to America. The Koreans still build the Aveo, which is just called Sonic here now.

          The Spark is a notch smaller and is NOT assembled in America but Korea.

          Sonic is the only small car assembled in America.

  • avatar
    ringomon

    The issue I have with this whole series is that your argument always comes back anecdote. There hasn’t been the sourcing of hard data that could have given the articles a little more weight. I don’t think a small pocket of friends of an editor at an automobile website serve as a wide enough basis to judge something as huge and unwieldy as the demographics of an entire generation.

    I’m open to the argument that the current downtrend is purely economic, but I think it completely ignores the huge fundamental shift in the way people live their lives these days.
    I’m in my early 30’s and am right at the age where I grew up almost without internet until I was close to adult age. I didn’t have an email address until I was a college freshman.
    Before the internet your world was largely defined by where you could physically get to. Now with the internet a lot of living is done in the virtual space that has no connection to one’s physical presence. (Like this “conversation” we’re having here). For me already many of my interests are not well served in my close geographic area. So I am involved in communities and activities that take place online, and therefore don’t require me to drive. I have a car because there is no reasonable public transportation where I live. I live where I live because it’s where I found a job and most of the jobs I could get are at offices in similar places. These places were designed by the whims of people that grew up in a different world than today’s youth. Just like how many people in the auto generation come from one car households because only one person worked. These things change slowly over time.

    Despite my interest in cars (I work in the industry) I really view my own car as a sunk cost required to work. If I could get a job where I could live somewhere that I didn’t have to feed that sunk cost, I would definitely do it. (Or at least take my 2 car family down to 1). I also tend to think people that live in those areas have richer social lives due to the forced human interaction of being in public. Less worries about drunk driving, and possibly more money to spend. Etc. I really don’t derive any pleasure from driving because of the rote nature of and the amount of money I am forced to spend to upkeep it.
    I love road trips- but I’d gladly rent the few times a year I take them.

    Point being, I think this attitude will only become more common as more people engage more and more in virtual spaces for conversation and community. If you don’t see driving as your main outlet to reach out to the world, the costs start to loom much larger than the perceived pleasures of it. I think it’s hard to argue that the same amount of young people that grow up with this new paradigm in place will maintain the interest in cars that existed in the past. There will always be enthusiasts of course, but that’s not really who the car companies are concerned about.

    • 0 avatar

      I wish I had the resources to do some kind of proper study. At the same time, I make no bones about the fact that the evidence is anecdotal or that my sample size is small. Not much I can do about it. Take a look at the Edmunds study cited in this sample.
      http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2013/05/generation-why-finally-some-hard-data-shows-that-young-people-do-care-about-cars/

      • 0 avatar
        ringomon

        I appreciate trying to get the info where it’s available. But I don’t think a study like that speaks much to the issue honestly. First reason being that these things take time. I think the real impact of the current youth generations relationships with cars won’t really be known until infrastructure decisions start being made in reaction to their tastes and lifestyle preferences that come from them actually having some economic power- which many don’t have now. Right now the youth is stuck in the world the previous generations have laid out for them.

        Which leads me to the second argument. One’s first preference might be to not have a car, but that doesn’t automatically mean the 2nd preference would be the cheapest car possible. If you’re stuck in a situation where you have to have a car (as many are until they get some true economic buying power) many will choose to get something that suits them. This is where I agree with you. The generation is more interested in design and nicer things, and that translates to cars when they have to/choose to buy them. But that doesn’t necessarily demonstrate that upcoming generations will have the same love affair with cars as the previous.

        I just think this series is incomplete without addressing what the shift online will do to the connection people have with cars as a constant backdrop to the discussions.

        • 0 avatar

          “But that doesn’t necessarily demonstrate that upcoming generations will have the same love affair with cars as the previous.”

          I agree with that as well. I’ve just been trying to say that the “kids don’t love cars, ergo cars are dead” reasoning that you see trotted out is incorrect. And a corollary to that is even people who aren’t traditionally car fans have some kind of appreciation for the automobile, both old and new. It’s another form of expression like a fancy road bike or tattoos (both of which are also becoming status symbols for the much desired urban youth set)

          • 0 avatar
            ringomon

            Yep- I agree with this. The appreciation will always be there somewhat- if somewhat eroded from people’s actual daily interactions with cars that is forced upon them due to unideal (for them) transportation options.

            This pretty much describes me and how I like cars. And expensive road bikes. And tattoos.. (well not so much tattoos)

    • 0 avatar
      DC Bruce

      Good points all. People do not interact socially in cars as they once did. (Go rent “American Graffiti” to see how it was done. I know; I was there.) The Internet provides mobility to interact with different groups of people, independent of their — and your — physical location.

      To be sure, basic economics teaches us that people respond to prices; and, if educated people have far much less disposable income than prior generations (which seems to be the case), it’s because they have had to pay a disproportionate share (compared to past cohorts) of their income for education, regardless of whether they have a degree in Women’s Studies, computer science, engineering, law or medicine. Remember, the cost of higher education has risen much more rapidly than inflation for the past two decades. That means its less affordable than it was in the past.

      However, with increasing traffic congestion in major cities, driving is no longer fun; it’s a chore. I grew up in Washington DC in the 60s and I spent a summer working in Los Angeles in 1969. I can tell you that, at that time, neither place experienced anywhere near the traffic congestion that those two places experience now. If you want to experience traffic like it was in the good ol’ days, you have to go to hollowed-out cities like Cleveland or Detroit.

      For a young person, the attractiveness of a car is mobility, but today, the mobility offered by a car, for many people, isn’t what it was. This has nothing to do with interest groups pushing mass transit, bicycle lanes or whatever. Rather, it has to do with the fact that the density and the dispersal of employment in metro areas (away from the “urban core”) generates traffic that exceeds the capacity of existing roads (or, probably, the ability of roads to be expanded to handle that capacity).

  • avatar
    romanjetfighter

    I’m 23 and all of my friends have cars, and 50% of the people I know have cars bought new. New Kia Fortes, Toyota Corollas, a used 240SX, used Porsche 928. Most bought by their parents, except there’s one 24 year old who is driving a 70k Mercedes-Benz SUV that she bought with her own money. Young people aren’t broke. Their parents are just buying cars for them!

    But it seems like as a symbol of status, people are focusing on where you or your parents live, or which college you went to. So there’s less fixation on cars or the driving experience. We’re all stuck in traffic, anyhow.

    • 0 avatar
      Summicron

      “We’re all stuck in traffic, anyhow.”

      Please hand this gentleman the Cut The Crap award.

      The American driving experience has hugely deteriorated since I were a lad. It was one thing to go tear-assin’ around the rural roads surrounding early Surburbia or cruising on newly built, glass smooth boulevards and highways of the 60’s and 70’s.

      Nowadays you’d have to endure 30 miles of peristaltic action along cratered roads through endless accident-begging intersections just to reach a city’s rural feeder roads only to find them packed at all hours with commercial vehicles and commuters from bedroom communities serving today’s everyone-plus-the-dog-works-3-jobs economy.

      Any love affair needs to be requited if it will endure and it’s a lot harder to get that from cars and driving today.

      • 0 avatar
        Lie2me

        “It was one thing to go tear-assin’ around the rural roads surrounding early Surburbia”

        Absolutely!… and it’s still there. When I’m driving down some desolate farm road and come across some fresh tire marks it actually makes me smile knowing that some kids are still getting off on layin’ some rubber… and probably layin’ whatever else

      • 0 avatar
        28-Cars-Later

        I don’t have the historical context to corroborate, but I tend to agree.

      • 0 avatar
        freedom4556

        Tell me about it. I’m 23 and bought an ’00 Pontiac Firebird v6 (insurance, you know…) about a year ago, and being my dd I get 50 miles round-trip everyday of 60 in a 75 behind a line of crossovers in the left lane. Couldn’t get an IT job in my hometown, I drive to the neighboring one everyday for work ’cause I don’t have the money to move. Car was only $3000 (it was written off by a marine), and that was all my savings from four years of part-time in college. Best thing is, the county or whomever decided to widen the part of the interstate I commute on to three lanes from two, and in the process have made it worse that it ever has been in my memory. They might be done by the time I’m 30. Car on the other hand has been a gem, besides all the panels being dinged, scraped or out of alignment. At least they’re all the same color, and both headlights come up! (albeit not together) It drives a dream after some suspension work. The broke can live the car dream; we just have to be in a 20-year time-warp and willing to deal with worn-out junk.

  • avatar
    April

    Maybe one way to get Millennial/Generation Why folks buying is have a car with a killer price. How about $9995? After all you need a product to get them in the door before you can build brand loyalty (and purchase more expensive GM cars when their income hopefully goes up).

    • 0 avatar
      Summicron

      I fervently agree… sub 10K starter cars that pass US safety regs, have at least a 5 yr warranty and which make the buyer feel like a valued member of the brand family.

      Something reliable for those crazy years of first jobs, relocations, social necessities etc. God, how that would have simplified my life back then. All we had were Pintos, Vegas and V-Dubs. Today’s entry level machines could be cosmically more reliable and safe than those.

    • 0 avatar
      Lie2me

      When I graduated high school $9995 would get you a loaded Corvette

  • avatar
    Nick

    ‘This may sound like utter crackpot tinfoil-hat talk, but living on the leading edge of “radical” discourse (downtown Toronto, Canada, which prioritized banning plastic shopping bags over reigning in out of control spending, for example)’

    Thanks for bring me back to reality and simultaneously ruining my day, fellow Torontonian.

  • avatar
    CelticPete

    Obviously a bad economy would effect car sales – especially for younger buyers. But..

    I personally think there has been a sea change in the younger generation against cars. The big thing is – as another person touched on.. People socialize WITHOUT cars. Since cars are now used just for work and travel – they are less needed by younger folks.

    Despite what GM thinks or other car makers think – its not all about cost. I don’t think people in my generation X or Y made so much money out of college either. But they still bought cars.

    The license issue is another sign – less people are even getting their license. You do not have to want to own a car to want a drivers license. When I got my license I had absolutely no intention of owning my own car. Driving was a right of passage – it was a necessity.

    So no – some of the problem is likely economic. But this generation really does have different needs and desires. And of those needs is to spend 100 bucks a month on a mobile phone..

    Times change. It doesn’t bother me a bit. Far as I am concerned I won’t mind if none of the millennial generation drives. The lawmakers long ago have pretty much stop building new roads because of crooked ‘studies’ that show everyone living in cities (That look like suburbs)..

    So having less drivers is a win for me – and everyone else.

    • 0 avatar
      April

      I’m sort of a substitute parental unit for quite a few 20-somethings and I’d say 95% either have a car or want one if they could afford it. It may be different the The Big City but where I live (population 400,000) if you have a job (or are looking for one) you need a car to get there.

  • avatar
    mnm4ever

    GM doesn’t “get” anything here, all they are do is pointing out the root cause of the decline in interest in cars for young people today. Its money, duh, of course it’s money. In the 80s (and from what I understand, the 50s, 60s, and 70s too) EVERY kid wanted a new car. And the ones who were really into it saved up and got one, if you had a regular job you could afford one. How many guys tell stories about buying their first brand new car right out of high school in the 60s? They were attainable then. Now they are not.

    The argument isn’t that young people don’t care at all about cars. It is that they have many more affordable interests that are more important, driving a new car simply isn’t that high on the list, and as those young people grow older, that isn’t going to change. After a lifetime of public transportation or buying CPO luxury cars for 50% of sticker, why would they ever attain to a new entry level car?

    • 0 avatar
      CelticPete

      “The argument isn’t that young people don’t care at all about cars. It is that they have many more affordable interests that are more important, driving a new car simply isn’t that high on the list, and as those young people grow older, that isn’t going to change. After a lifetime of public transportation or buying CPO luxury cars for 50% of sticker, why would they ever attain to a new entry level car?”

      Some of them really don’t care. At the dealer where we bought our last car they had a young woman working there who couldn’t drive. I am sorry I just don’t remember that kind of thing happening when I was younger.

      There used to be peer pressure to learn to drive – now for many people they simply opt out – usually by moving to a big city and taking public transportation.

      It doesn’t have to be X or Y. Like I said the bad economy is a factor – just like cows are a factor in global warming. Its not the whole reason for it.

      So yeah you are right. Cars are down the list of priorities for a lot of people in this generation. But make no mistake some don’t care about them at all – and rather hate them.

  • avatar
    Les

    @Derek

    I keep hearing in auto-journuo circles that the ‘Retro’ design language of the current Camaro/Mustang/Challenger are all kinds of tired and fail and can only appeal to the Rogaine and Viagra crowd and if young people Were interested in cars they would be singing hozanas that the next generation of vehicles will dispense with any and all ‘retro’ styling cues.

    What’s your take on that?

  • avatar
    tjh8402

    Car ownership is pretty much mandatory here in Orlando, Fl. The question is what you buy. The lack of $ is definitely an overriding concern. Although my low $40k income is probably better than most of what my under 30 peers are making, and I don’t have a payment on my car, the cost of owning and enthusiast model in gas as well as repairs, and driving said car enthusiastically, is something that constantly weighs on my mind. It seems worth it whenever I’m driving the car, but when I sit down and look at the numbers, I always question whether I shouldve bought a Prius for now (or at the very least a used Mazda 3).

  • avatar
    stanczyk

    ‘And when circumstances are appropriate they will buy cars. ” ?!? – circumstances’ll not improve !

    “it’s the economy, stupid.” ?!? – it’s not economy, stupid .. it’s medio-corporate-bankstero-cracy …
    .. and “Virtually brainwashed young hipsters” don’t care about cars because : (1) they are .. “virtually brainwashed” and (2) they have no money (and will not have)…

    BTW:
    why Ford is painting 660+BHP monster-Modern-Muscle-car in ..
    .. (Grabber) Gay-Blue ?!?
    (.. oh , yeah .. traditional Mustang-colour .. :)


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